Only had to watch a Youtube with STWOR beta to refuse subbing at all. Saw one getting a quest to go killling 10 mobs. Allright this same stuff all over again, no thanks.
Please game developers come up with some new spectacular idea.
Its a shame so many people are buying and subbing to the crap because its making Bioware and EA aton of money which in turn causes new games to follow the same themepark theme to make money. No AAA company has the balls to try something new because their all a bunch of scared sissies lol. Until someone grows some balls we have to deal with the crap MMOs coming out these days...
I get the feeling im playing single player as i don't see any people,
it's all so so instanced (even more so then other new mmo's)
Then theres the 1-3hr cues been going on from the pre-order 13th till todays launch 20th,
Plus i've only seen 1 of 66 guild mates & then theres the cinematic...
The cinematics alone call into question this 'single player' feature with co-op controls, as it
causes issues with some players wanting to watch & others spamming 'spacebar'.
Its a single player in a co-op/mmg build, its not a 'proper mmo' imo ...neither was.... APB,
STO, WoT... this seems to be a new genre of mmo's as such 'Watered down themparks'
Theres no new fatures or innovation to boast about this game, its just another 'meh' mmo
but with a MASSIVE IP
This game is as much a single player game as World of Warcraft, Everquest 2 and LOTRO. All of these games use instancing and have solo quests, yet none of these have been called single player.
Theres tonnes of open world group content if you actually leave the starter planet.
Sandbox games do not make cheaters... there are cheaters in both theme park and sandbox games.. ninja looting, or using people to get to a certain point then dumping them in pve on theme games exists . cheaters exist everywhere... saying that "sandbox" breeds cheaters is ignorant.
FFA is not bad, as it lets people show their real colors. YOu cannot mouth off like a spaztic teenager and act like a deliquent without getting put in your place. Even if there are a huge group of "bad" people running amuck they will be put in there place or you join them. pretty simple. people learn to govern themselves and stronger community bonds are made in game since trusting someone takes time. kinda like in real life..
The only thing most sandbox games need removed is death penalty since that can set you back quite a bit in an ffa game. losing your gear is too hardcore for some people and after a while it was too hardcore for me when I played asherons call.
I think every game should include an ffa server that comes as is with no developement put into it. no gripes allowed on the boards unless it is a mechanics exploit b8ut it should not detract attention from the real game.
Putting one ffa server in with every game would let developers guage if people are ready for a fulll FFA type game in the future. Considering MMOS start off with a ton of servers on launch and then consolidate later it would not be a big deal to make one ffa.
Actually, I found that the mouthiest, worst players were the ones roaming around in groups slaughtering everyone. The last thing on earth I'd want to do is join them.
I agree with Rhoklaw. AAA developers need to realize they can make a sandbox without FFA pvp.
I wouldn't mind if there were areas in a hybrid or sandbox with FFA pvp or faction pvp, but there should also be large areas where players can build, craft, explore, and pve without having to worry about the pvp crowd.
I'd like to see a game where you also have personal property (a house, a bit of land to develop if that's part of the game, a workshop), and also have the option of joining a guild and working together with others to create a guild hall or town. That way, if you ever leave your guild, you're not left with nothing and nowhere to go. Better yet, if guild property is all siegable, you can enjoy large scale pvp without giving up your little square of personal property in a safe area.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Sandbox games do not make cheaters... there are cheaters in both theme park and sandbox games.. ninja looting, or using people to get to a certain point then dumping them in pve on theme games exists . cheaters exist everywhere... saying that "sandbox" breeds cheaters is ignorant.
FFA is not bad, as it lets people show their real colors. YOu cannot mouth off like a spaztic teenager and act like a deliquent without getting put in your place. Even if there are a huge group of "bad" people running amuck they will be put in there place or you join them. pretty simple. people learn to govern themselves and stronger community bonds are made in game since trusting someone takes time. kinda like in real life..
The only thing most sandbox games need removed is death penalty since that can set you back quite a bit in an ffa game. losing your gear is too hardcore for some people and after a while it was too hardcore for me when I played asherons call.
I think every game should include an ffa server that comes as is with no developement put into it. no gripes allowed on the boards unless it is a mechanics exploit b8ut it should not detract attention from the real game.
Putting one ffa server in with every game would let developers guage if people are ready for a fulll FFA type game in the future. Considering MMOS start off with a ton of servers on launch and then consolidate later it would not be a big deal to make one ffa.
Actually, I found that the mouthiest, worst players were the ones roaming around in groups slaughtering everyone. The last thing on earth I'd want to do is join them.
I agree with Rhoklaw. AAA developers need to realize they can make a sandbox without FFA pvp.
I wouldn't mind if there were areas in a hybrid or sandbox with FFA pvp or faction pvp, but there should also be large areas where players can build, craft, explore, and pve without having to worry about the pvp crowd.
I'd like to see a game where you also have personal property (a house, a bit of land to develop if that's part of the game, a workshop), and also have the option of joining a guild and working together with others to create a guild hall or town. That way, if you ever leave your guild, you're not left with nothing and nowhere to go. Better yet, if guild property is all siegable, you can enjoy large scale pvp without giving up your little square of personal property in a safe area.
OP what did you expect? Did you not play the weekend betas or read the reviews from some long time beta testers.Anyone with any serious MMO experiance can see what this game is all about.You had every chance to listen but you let the hype take hold of you when deep down you knew it would not last.Their is themepark and then their is games like swtor and rift that are just fed-x rail road mmos.Did you really think that Bioware were going to stray from their linear path which they follow in every game they make.Bioware would not know an open world mmo if it smacked them in the face.The game is an bad hybrid that makes a mockery of what mmo are all about.
Very good article, thanks for posting it. While reading it, I was thinking that it sounds expensive and time consuming to create a game like that, which is probably part of the reason most developers and their investors go the safe and easy route. But eventually saturation and continued boredom with the tried and true formula just might make this sort of game profitable.
I wish the Archeage developers would figure that out and offer servers with alternate pvp rulesets for western gamers.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
thanks....I was about to spend the $60 but i dont think I will...ive played many mmos...I fkin hated the ones with instanced pvp and quest towns that u keep advancing to that have so many quests that involve killing 10 of these mobs or collecting 5 of these minerals...fk that.
not even wasting my money....ill stick to real games like daoc, eve, planetside...
The trend with these so called Triple A MMOs today is, they hype it up as the next WOW killer to boost sales so they could cover development costs then after a few months convert them to free-to-play. Just a thought...
I just don't think SWTOR is worth a monthly fee, it feels like the game is dead already because the zones never have more than 100 players and the environments are so phased. I haven't even been a part of a group because people just solo the whole thing nd barely talk.
If EA wasn't involved I'd say TOR has at least the canvas blank enough to build into a viable hybrid game. I mean the ffa pvp zone sounds at least like a fun distraction. I always enjoyed that mechanic in City of Heroes honestly.
But BW and EA are companies that enjoy hyping a single game mechanic and plowing that bad boy into the ground.
It may grow.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Sandbox games do not make cheaters... there are cheaters in both theme park and sandbox games.. ninja looting, or using people to get to a certain point then dumping them in pve on theme games exists . cheaters exist everywhere... saying that "sandbox" breeds cheaters is ignorant.
FFA is not bad, as it lets people show their real colors. YOu cannot mouth off like a spaztic teenager and act like a deliquent without getting put in your place. Even if there are a huge group of "bad" people running amuck they will be put in there place or you join them. pretty simple. people learn to govern themselves and stronger community bonds are made in game since trusting someone takes time. kinda like in real life..
The only thing most sandbox games need removed is death penalty since that can set you back quite a bit in an ffa game. losing your gear is too hardcore for some people and after a while it was too hardcore for me when I played asherons call.
I think every game should include an ffa server that comes as is with no developement put into it. no gripes allowed on the boards unless it is a mechanics exploit b8ut it should not detract attention from the real game.
Putting one ffa server in with every game would let developers guage if people are ready for a fulll FFA type game in the future. Considering MMOS start off with a ton of servers on launch and then consolidate later it would not be a big deal to make one ffa.
FFA PVP is not a defining feature of sandbox
Absolutely agree, why do people who are against the sandbox concept keep using this argument? Sandbox doesn't have to equal anarchy.
games are being made to jump into have fun and then go about your real life.
sad to say but sandboxes just ...arn't in big buisness intrest.
imho you should not live your life in a game. I made this mistake in the past (WoW) and I just wish I could get that 6 months that I grinded to Field Marshal back, I mean I was 7 days a week grinding 12 hours a day ..just for a title? ...6 months of my life *poof* that I can show nothing for but a title and outdated gear on game I don't play anymore.
Maybe it's my age, idk....once you get married and kids and all things change. I just play causaully now with my wife and kid on games.
I actually like saying this but SWTOR would of been better with Story+DE+AOC combat or at least combat that isn't static that be atleast a step forward IMO, I hate the fact swinging a lightsaber acoss two enemies only hurt one lol, but maybe I missed something.
Still a great current gen mmorpg, but yea it is crazy that they did the current gen formula and added instanced story telling, I never thought about how that isn't such a good thing .
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I mean these types of games have a place. But at least put some new thought into it. I mean there's several types of massive multiplayer games now and RPG is so open an idea just look at how many different kinds of multi-sided dice there are in the world.
TOR thought it could get away with cookie cutter content by having NPCs read to you. It's a cool deal honestly, but I think it'll be a hard sell to keep people.
Innovation in mechanics > messing around with presentation alone.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
They have brought everything to the table that they promised if you wouldve payed attention you wouldve known excatly what this game was before you bought it.
Besides you havent really subbed yet in the first place .. Thanks for your statement that you wouldnt have to make if you just simply payed attention.
Why does someone "have" to be relegated to sandbox games if they get tired of the traditional, extremely narrow, WoW-themepark formula?
WoW came out in 2004, and more recent themepark games (WAR, Rift, Aion, SWTOR) have not made any major changes to the formula Blizz originally came up with. I for one would like to just see a GAME, themepark, sandbox, or otherwise that tries to do something DIFFERENT. Just different from WoW, nothing really specific, just give a different experience from the typical:
1. Quest-node leveling.
2. Queueable, level-segmented, battlegrounds.
3. Talent trees.
4. Trinity.
5. Dungeons.
6. Raids.
The formula Blizz came up with *sighs* that's such a typical mentality with gamers these days.
The mmo scene didn't start with WoW. Just because it's new to you, doesn't mean it's new :P WoW refined much of what was already there, but other than specifying WoW, I completely agree. Creative drought, anyone? I grew tired of it years ago, and it looks like the majority of people are starting to follow suit.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
As far as crafting goes, it's only easy if you don't get into reverse engineering to get all the blue an purple recipes. It's actually quite deep for what it is.
But yeah, coming from eve I would imagine it would seem simple to you, it was never meant to be Eve or SWG in the crafting department. It is, however MUCH deeper than it appears at face value and much better than wow, Rift or similar crafting systems. It's the best you will find in a themepark.
Have fun in Eve though! (I mean that seriously btw, not sarcastically)
I'd like to see a game where you also have personal property (a house, a bit of land to develop if that's part of the game, a workshop), and also have the option of joining a guild and working together with others to create a guild hall or town. That way, if you ever leave your guild, you're not left with nothing and nowhere to go. Better yet, if guild property is all siegable, you can enjoy large scale pvp without giving up your little square of personal property in a safe area.
Have you tried Haven and Hearth or Wurm. On both have the things you mentioned. The only thing is the graphics. H&H is 2d and Wurm's character models are crappy. Otherwise great games.
I think i know what ya mean by THEME park style mmo, they are based on popular fiction generally so you kind of know what to expect which takes away from the thrill, allmost s much as a walkthrough all content being posted on day 1 does.
Take a look at Wildstar from ncsoft, its a bit toony but not "themed" on anything from the looks of it and may be just the ticket for you. Myself I signe dup for the beta and am still hoping but no luck yet.
Comments
Its a shame so many people are buying and subbing to the crap because its making Bioware and EA aton of money which in turn causes new games to follow the same themepark theme to make money. No AAA company has the balls to try something new because their all a bunch of scared sissies lol. Until someone grows some balls we have to deal with the crap MMOs coming out these days...
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
it would be a very unique circumstance for a sandbox to be 'the' excitement
"a sandbox everyone! a sandbox!"
Everyone runs over..
"Wow!"
"It looks so grand!"
"Its the best sandbox I ever saw!"
I never saw a purple cow.
I never hope to see one.
But I can tell you anyhow
I'd rather see than be one.
This game is as much a single player game as World of Warcraft, Everquest 2 and LOTRO. All of these games use instancing and have solo quests, yet none of these have been called single player.
Theres tonnes of open world group content if you actually leave the starter planet.
Sandbox games do not make cheaters... there are cheaters in both theme park and sandbox games.. ninja looting, or using people to get to a certain point then dumping them in pve on theme games exists . cheaters exist everywhere... saying that "sandbox" breeds cheaters is ignorant.
FFA is not bad, as it lets people show their real colors. YOu cannot mouth off like a spaztic teenager and act like a deliquent without getting put in your place. Even if there are a huge group of "bad" people running amuck they will be put in there place or you join them. pretty simple. people learn to govern themselves and stronger community bonds are made in game since trusting someone takes time. kinda like in real life..
The only thing most sandbox games need removed is death penalty since that can set you back quite a bit in an ffa game. losing your gear is too hardcore for some people and after a while it was too hardcore for me when I played asherons call.
I think every game should include an ffa server that comes as is with no developement put into it. no gripes allowed on the boards unless it is a mechanics exploit b8ut it should not detract attention from the real game.
Putting one ffa server in with every game would let developers guage if people are ready for a fulll FFA type game in the future. Considering MMOS start off with a ton of servers on launch and then consolidate later it would not be a big deal to make one ffa.
I went for the 6 month plan...
Hauken Stormchaser
I want pre-CU back
Station.com : We got your game
Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
Actually, I found that the mouthiest, worst players were the ones roaming around in groups slaughtering everyone. The last thing on earth I'd want to do is join them.
I agree with Rhoklaw. AAA developers need to realize they can make a sandbox without FFA pvp.
I wouldn't mind if there were areas in a hybrid or sandbox with FFA pvp or faction pvp, but there should also be large areas where players can build, craft, explore, and pve without having to worry about the pvp crowd.
I'd like to see a game where you also have personal property (a house, a bit of land to develop if that's part of the game, a workshop), and also have the option of joining a guild and working together with others to create a guild hall or town. That way, if you ever leave your guild, you're not left with nothing and nowhere to go. Better yet, if guild property is all siegable, you can enjoy large scale pvp without giving up your little square of personal property in a safe area.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
FFA PVP is not a defining feature of sandbox
Youwill like this article: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AleksanderAdamkiewicz/20111216/9115/The_case_for_a_AAA_sandbox_MMO.php
Very good article, thanks for posting it. While reading it, I was thinking that it sounds expensive and time consuming to create a game like that, which is probably part of the reason most developers and their investors go the safe and easy route. But eventually saturation and continued boredom with the tried and true formula just might make this sort of game profitable.
I wish the Archeage developers would figure that out and offer servers with alternate pvp rulesets for western gamers.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
thanks....I was about to spend the $60 but i dont think I will...ive played many mmos...I fkin hated the ones with instanced pvp and quest towns that u keep advancing to that have so many quests that involve killing 10 of these mobs or collecting 5 of these minerals...fk that.
not even wasting my money....ill stick to real games like daoc, eve, planetside...
http://www.mmoculture.com/2011/03/darkness-and-light-epic-mmo-in-making.html?m=1
The trend with these so called Triple A MMOs today is, they hype it up as the next WOW killer to boost sales so they could cover development costs then after a few months convert them to free-to-play. Just a thought...
I just don't think SWTOR is worth a monthly fee, it feels like the game is dead already because the zones never have more than 100 players and the environments are so phased. I haven't even been a part of a group because people just solo the whole thing nd barely talk.
If EA wasn't involved I'd say TOR has at least the canvas blank enough to build into a viable hybrid game.
I mean the ffa pvp zone sounds at least like a fun distraction. I always enjoyed that mechanic in City of Heroes honestly.
But BW and EA are companies that enjoy hyping a single game mechanic and plowing that bad boy into the ground.
It may grow.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Absolutely agree, why do people who are against the sandbox concept keep using this argument? Sandbox doesn't have to equal anarchy.
you expected different from the game?
games are being made to jump into have fun and then go about your real life.
sad to say but sandboxes just ...arn't in big buisness intrest.
imho you should not live your life in a game. I made this mistake in the past (WoW) and I just wish I could get that 6 months that I grinded to Field Marshal back, I mean I was 7 days a week grinding 12 hours a day ..just for a title? ...6 months of my life *poof* that I can show nothing for but a title and outdated gear on game I don't play anymore.
Maybe it's my age, idk....once you get married and kids and all things change. I just play causaully now with my wife and kid on games.
..just my 2 cents...well 1 cent im broke
I actually like saying this but SWTOR would of been better with Story+DE+AOC combat or at least combat that isn't static that be atleast a step forward IMO, I hate the fact swinging a lightsaber acoss two enemies only hurt one lol, but maybe I missed something.
Still a great current gen mmorpg, but yea it is crazy that they did the current gen formula and added instanced story telling, I never thought about how that isn't such a good thing
.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
How bad TOR actually is doesn't have to be a:
not a sandbox
vs
themepark is what mmo is
I mean these types of games have a place. But at least put some new thought into it. I mean there's several types of massive multiplayer games now and RPG is so open an idea just look at how many different kinds of multi-sided dice there are in the world.
TOR thought it could get away with cookie cutter content by having NPCs read to you. It's a cool deal honestly, but I think it'll be a hard sell to keep people.
Innovation in mechanics > messing around with presentation alone.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
They have brought everything to the table that they promised if you wouldve payed attention you wouldve known excatly what this game was before you bought it.
Besides you havent really subbed yet in the first place .. Thanks for your statement that you wouldnt have to make if you just simply payed attention.
The formula Blizz came up with *sighs* that's such a typical mentality with gamers these days.
The mmo scene didn't start with WoW. Just because it's new to you, doesn't mean it's new :P WoW refined much of what was already there, but other than specifying WoW, I completely agree. Creative drought, anyone? I grew tired of it years ago, and it looks like the majority of people are starting to follow suit.
Why did you purchase SWTOR if you don't find themepark's appealing?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
But yeah, coming from eve I would imagine it would seem simple to you, it was never meant to be Eve or SWG in the crafting department. It is, however MUCH deeper than it appears at face value and much better than wow, Rift or similar crafting systems. It's the best you will find in a themepark.
Have fun in Eve though! (I mean that seriously btw, not sarcastically)
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Have you tried Haven and Hearth or Wurm. On both have the things you mentioned. The only thing is the graphics. H&H is 2d and Wurm's character models are crappy. Otherwise great games.
I think i know what ya mean by THEME park style mmo, they are based on popular fiction generally so you kind of know what to expect which takes away from the thrill, allmost s much as a walkthrough all content being posted on day 1 does.
Take a look at Wildstar from ncsoft, its a bit toony but not "themed" on anything from the looks of it and may be just the ticket for you. Myself I signe dup for the beta and am still hoping but no luck yet.