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I want to create an MMORPG, how much money do I need?

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  • kattehuskattehus Posts: 375Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by zephermarkus

    DOn't u love these people my buddy such and such works here and for nintendo and sony and microsoft sorry and u or anyone u knew made this kind of money u wouldn't be on mmorpg lol u would actually have hookers to bone.

    Wow, really? So if you're making a lot of money, you don't have time to sit down to enjoy your favorite hobby and eventually discuss with other, like-minded, individuals? Wow. I'm glad I don't make a lot of money, then. I mean, I do have my fianceé to, as you so crudely put it, bone - but I also have time to; play games, discuss games, read forums, articles, and so on and so forth.

     

    To the OP;

    A lof of what has been said in this thread is true. It takes money and a lot of other things to make an MMO.

    About your idea of flying people to, eh, India or somesuch.. I guess there might be some people who'd be interested, but I know that I, myself - a computer science student, would much rather stay where I am. Not only because of my family, but because of all the accompanied benefits of living in a western country.

    That said, you might be able to find people who just came out of the university who'd love the idea. You have to consider the cost of having those people relocated etc. etc., and you have to consider the quality of their work. Again, as a computer science student, a lot of my class mates aren't really all that when it comes to programming. So if you do decide to do this, make sure you get at least a few experienced members who can, well, overlook the project. You'd probably also want the upper-half of the graduates, and someone to screen the applications (make sure to get applicants to submit a piece of code or something, so someone you've employed already can say wether or not it's crap).

    If you really want to do something like this, though, start small. Start with hiring some students (that is, still studying) and set up something local. Hire some rooms, all the basics. Work on smaller singleplayer games and gradually move up to multiplayer and eventually mmo's. Again, I'd make sure you have some experienced people with you, for quality assurance and such. Best practice does not come naturally.

    On a related note; I know a few people who've started their own game-making businesses here (local folks), they started with less than 10 grand, but they're not making a lot of money (yet). Innovators. They're "their own boss"-ish, but it means lots of hard word and lowering ones life standards for a while, until business picks up. Well, one of 'em did work for a national TV channel, some kids-games, so his business did pick up, and he's supporting his 2nd child now.


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  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare

    Originally posted by kevin_123





    ...but working as a games programmer is not a well paid job...

     A 2010 survey by Game Developer indicated that the average salary for a game programmer is $95,300 annually. The least experienced programmers (with less than 3 years experience) generally earn about $74,600, while developers with over six years experience on average earn $125,700.

    That is, of course, if we want to use something other than our asses as our source of data.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • LidaneLidane Austin, TXPosts: 2,300Member Common

    Buidling an MMO -- or any game, really -- goes much farther than just the programmers.

    You need a place to put all those programmers. You need computers for all of them, and desks for those computers. You need office supplies and basic utilities for that office to run. You need a project manager to plan everything out and stick to it so that everyone knows what the hell is going on and when it needs to be done. You also need people like a lead designer, quest designers, writers, sound, animators, QA, and artists.

    Beyond that, there's the need for an accountant to manage the money and a lawyer to make sure you're not screwing yourself over with every contract you sign. An HR person is a good idea so they can handle any disputes that arise. Hiring an office manager to make sure that things run smoothly would be smart too. Plus, you need server and database admins to make sure that there are servers for your MMO to run on. And so on and so forth. 

    These things cost money. It's not hard to see where a game could end up costing $30-$60 million through its development cycle, especially if you want to hire talent that knows what they're doing instead of kids straight out of college.

  • AutemOxAutemOx Fullerton, CAPosts: 1,704Member

    Hi Kevin,

    I have hopes of running an indie game company someday too.  More than hopes really; more like plans.  

    Costs can range wildly depending on what you want to do.  $200,000 is a substantail and presents opportunity, but before getting started I think you should look for business partners who are also willing to contribute $$ towards the project.  This might mean you will have to compromise some of your vision, but take these two things into account:

    1) Your vision is already going to be compromised when you are on a lower budget, especially if you run out of money half way through.

    2) A business partner can help bring things to the table that you may not be able to.  Or at least someone to bounce ideas off of who is invested in the project.

    If you are interested in keeping in touch with me and letting me know how it goes, message me.  Like you, I have considered outsourcing for my project...  I am currently learning Chinese and planning to live there for a half of a year when I finish getting my doctorate in 2014.  From there I am moving back to the states and getting a 'real job' and saving some money while exploring ideas and looking for partners.  In the end I may try to get a loan from my family who have a lot of liquid cash and real estate assets that are basically untouched because of their lack of financial sense and other family related problems, but I do not want to rely on that. My primary interests are with unique online RPGs, but not necessarily MMORPGs.

    Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.

  • SugarpuffSugarpuff Seattle, WAPosts: 7Member

    I think he has a nice idea, and could polish it up...a bit. I don't know if kids would want to fly all the way to India, though they might, and I know people like my brothers would love to create an indie team to make a game, regardless of if at the moment they aren't paid very much, because for people like them, there is a dream that they would be paid lots later on. But! I think they'd prefer local or at least in the US.

    I would say it might make things a little cheaper to get a bunch of friends together to make a game if they know what they're doing, but I don't know if I have a say in it because I don't really know what I'm talking about lol. Plus it wouldn't be top notch, but of course it's a start. But, if you're not for a big company, indie games are usually cheaper, aren't they? And I've heard of some indie MMORPGs that were made with a budget under 1 mill. So it is possible.

    I have my own question: Why are they so expensive? What does all that money come from, are the creators buying lots of software to make the game and it's all so expensive? And how on earth did an indie group make a game under 1 mill while another one made one with a budget over 30 mill? What did the first one cut to make it with such a low budget?

    One more question: Would a 2D MMORPG have a smaller budget, and by how much? Those can get big too, just look at Maplestory. And I'm sure they're easier to make.

    I feel like so many people have such nice ideas, but money always gets in the way of it all : I'm sure there's some way to lower that big fat budget.

    EDIT~ You know, I think it is extremely possible to make an MMORPG with a small indie team and a budget of $100,000. Some people don't really care about the money, some really love just making games. Indie is not corporate, is not big companies, it's a bunch of friends getting together to create a big dream, a bunch of rebels challenging the big companies and making something new. You can start small and work your way up to the big plan. $100,000 budget, an 8-member team, $100 web hosting, some guys around here are willing to work for $10 a day! Because of the dream that one day they'll be making millions with their great ideas. Just look at Minecraft--started from barely anything, became so big. You don't need a 30 million budget to create something decent.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member Common


    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by kevin_123


    ...but working as a games programmer is not a well paid job...
     A 2010 survey by Game Developer indicated that the average salary for a game programmer is $95,300 annually. The least experienced programmers (with less than 3 years experience) generally earn about $74,600, while developers with over six years experience on average earn $125,700.
    That is, of course, if we want to use something other than our asses as our source of data.



    So take a team of 10 people, give them 5 years of salary (roughly) and you get $3,750,000 in salary if you start with people who have 3 years or less experience. I always figured I could take $10,000,000 and a bunch of college students and make a game better than Mortal Online...but not as good as WoW. Unfortunately, I haven't won the lottery, so I need all the money I make for bills and I can't fund the development of my yet to be developed game.

    ** edit **
    I'm not sure about the actual dollar amount, but the ability to fund your game for a total of 5 years without earning income from the game is ballpark I'd try to get in.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • AutemOxAutemOx Fullerton, CAPosts: 1,704Member

    I think some of the responses to the OP are missing the point because they are talking about making an AAA MMO.  With the 200,000 the OP has he could start an indie company, no problem.

    I think in an indie game one of the biggest things to remember is that every tiny feature costs you money.  With a big budget MMO, developers start with a feature list already decided for them by other popular MMOs and build on that.  You simply cannot do that with an indie game; every feature in your game needs to add something new and interesting to the table because you simply do not have enough features to run with the big dogs.  Every feature you need to ask yourself the pros of cons of, even simple ones that are well established in RPGs today.

    Best of luck!

    Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.

  • jezvinjezvin Hamilton, MAPosts: 804Member Uncommon

    You need the right people, thats about it.

    People will get stuff done more than money will, find the right people with the right drive for what you want to do and the money really shouldn't be as big of an issue, yes you will need alot but the people are what are going to make your game.

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  • AcidonAcidon behind you..Posts: 795Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jezvin

    You need the right people, thats about it.
    People will get stuff done more than money will, find the right people with the right drive for what you want to do and the money really shouldn't be as big of an issue, yes you will need alot but the people are what are going to make your game.

     

    This is spot on.  3 of the right people can yield much better results (much more productive) than 10 mediocre people.

    The hard part, of course, is figuring out who belongs in what category.  People are looking for jobs.  Even those just wanting to prove themselves.  So I would advise setting up some sort of test before hire. 

     

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member Common

    OK. I did not take this seriously the first time I responded to this thread, so I'm going to take another stab at it.

    You need to have designed your game. That means you should actually be able to play the game, on paper without actually writing any code. You need to avoid rewriting game related stuff as much as possible. It's inevitable that you'll need to rewrite something, but you should be able to avoid some of that by planning your game.

    Know your target audience, or at least have some idea of who the market is for your game. It is cool to write a game, but it's even cooler if people give you money because you wrote a game. Some idea of who you're writing the game for, besides yourself will help you.

    You'll need to raise more money, unless the game you're writing is a very small target. If you are your only employee, then 200,000 will probably carry you, by yourself, for four or five years. That's mostly it though...just you.

    Get a demo of your game written. This is what's going to help you with raising money. You'll need a bit of a demo to show people what the game is about. There are some systems out there that will help with getting a demo written, even if they are not what you'd use for a full fledged game. The Hero Cloud is one of them. There are some others, but the names escape me at the moment. You should get recent information on these systems though...don't rely on someone like me for stuff like that.

    There are people on these forums who have actually written games, are writing games and are working in the industry. Listen to those people, but keep in mind that you're not them, so you might have to do something a little different than they did.

    Consider getting a professional accountant. It doesn't have to be your own personal accountant, but accountants still exist for a reason these days and it's because they know what to do with money and the laws that are related to it.

    Once you start, do not give up. This can't be underestimated. Persistence is absolutely necessary. Grinding your way to max level in any game has nothing on actually writing a game. Do not give up.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • SugarpuffSugarpuff Seattle, WAPosts: 7Member

    This is very helpful advice, and a lot better than some of the others "you'll never do it anyway". Thanks for the good tips, I was looking at this thread  for advice in the first place :)

    But, what do you mean by being able to play the game on paper without any code? Like, writing out the entire script?

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member Common


    Originally posted by Sugarpuff
    This is very helpful advice, and a lot better than some of the others "you'll never do it anyway". Thanks for the good tips, I was looking at this thread  for advice in the first place :)
    But, what do you mean by being able to play the game on paper without any code? Like, writing out the entire script?

    I don't think writing out the entire script would be feasible. However, you could do what D&D people have done for years and go through a scenario that covers many of the features you want to incorporate in your game. It's basically a dry run to highlight any very simple issues that might come up. For instance, adding a crafting system that turns out to have no other purpose than being a feature that other games have.

    Everything I typed above comes from other people who have written games, either on these forums or elsewhere. There are a couple people here who have some idea of how to actually write a game and there are people 'in the industry' who have blogs and give out tidbits of info from their experiences. I've read some of those and remembered some of what they've written.

    I've never written an MMORPG, so questions like 'how hard is it' I would have to answer with 'too hard for me'. Ditto for 'how much does it cost'...'more than I have'. I could not talk my daughter into devoting the next year or so of her high school career to 3d modeling, so my gaming creation plans kind of tanked. :-) So...take anything specific I say (or anyone who hasn't actually written an MMORPG for that matter) with a grain of salt.

    However, persistence is key. You will make mistakes. Learning from the mistakes and moving forward seems to be the common denominator with games that get released.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • SugarpuffSugarpuff Seattle, WAPosts: 7Member

    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Sugarpuff

    This is very helpful advice, and a lot better than some of the others "you'll never do it anyway". Thanks for the good tips, I was looking at this thread  for advice in the first place :)

    But, what do you mean by being able to play the game on paper without any code? Like, writing out the entire script?







    I don't think writing out the entire script would be feasible. However, you could do what D&D people have done for years and go through a scenario that covers many of the features you want to incorporate in your game. It's basically a dry run to highlight any very simple issues that might come up. For instance, adding a crafting system that turns out to have no other purpose than being a feature that other games have.



    Everything I typed above comes from other people who have written games, either on these forums or elsewhere. There are a couple people here who have some idea of how to actually write a game and there are people 'in the industry' who have blogs and give out tidbits of info from their experiences. I've read some of those and remembered some of what they've written.



    I've never written an MMORPG, so questions like 'how hard is it' I would have to answer with 'too hard for me'. Ditto for 'how much does it cost'...'more than I have'. I could not talk my daughter into devoting the next year or so of her high school career to 3d modeling, so my gaming creation plans kind of tanked. :-) So...take anything specific I say (or anyone who hasn't actually written an MMORPG for that matter) with a grain of salt.



    However, persistence is key. You will make mistakes. Learning from the mistakes and moving forward seems to be the common denominator with games that get released.


     

    I see. :3 I realize that it takes persistence, as a lot of things do. This is very true, mistakes will be made, but learning from them is crucial, so I hope everyone who wishes to make games or try what makes them happy will do their best and succeed!

     

  • rznkainrznkain Dugspur, VAPosts: 539Member

    Originally posted by kevin_123

    If I want to start a game studio and make an MMORPG, how much money would I need? Would a couple hundred thousdand dollars be enough? Do programmers/artists out there prefer to work on indie projects rather than for big companies where they're just another cog in a machine?
     
    I've also always had the idea of buying a cheap house in a cheap country like India or the Philipines, getting in touch with a bunch of good artists and programmers straight from university, fly them all out to to the 'Headquarters' which is just a large house/compound and make a game. All you need are computers, and you can live very comfortably in these countries for a couple thousand USD per person.
     
    Is this a stupid plan that I should just forget straight away? It's just, if I was a programmer/artist who just got out from university and got offered to work on a project where my cost of living would be paid for, I'd be offered a very reasonable share in a company that could potentially be making a lot of money, and I'd be living in a new cool exotic country... I don't know but that sounds pretty good to me. Worst case scenario the game fails and everyone get's a long holiday. Something like this could probably be done with a budget of around 100 000 USD IF there would be people willing to work for free.
     
    What do you think?

     It would be tough your not gonna find many grads wanting to movve to a place like India to work for free and live in a home in exchange for it for a number of reasons.If they went to college they either have money from mom and dad or they need a real paying job asap to start paying there  loans back.Also I won't even lie with way economy is atm the MAIN problem with US atm is the fact too many people want to do buisness over there where they think its cheaper yet export back into US and expect/.want us to put money in something that does not even give americans a job.

     

         I don't blame you for that but I look forward to the day when hopefully the US gets some common sense and begins to make it not profitable to do buisness this way they need to tax the hell out of all companies who have a set % of there factories/buisnesses oversears when it stops being profitable for them to do it will be when they bring there jobs back to US and our economy will pick itself back up.

  • PukeBucketPukeBucket Beaverton, ORPosts: 867Member

    100 to 300 million USD to avoid the life stealing process of hunting down and making stupid promises to greedy investors.

    Or the support of a developer who can be a buffer from the market and could soak that cost for you.

    I think to get started otherwise just a few grand really. Any manner of software really. Communication costs for building, hosting, and access would easily drive that up once the code had created a playfield within a virtual machine.

    I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by NMStudio


    Originally posted by toddze


    Originally posted by NMStudio


    Originally posted by toddze

    We all have our dream mmo. The fact is without millions of $$$$ laying around it wont happen (unless you plan on making something that looks like minecraft).

    Imagine if Minecraft used a REAL 3d engine, and had massive amounts of players in the same world... how great would that be? 

    Ya it would be awsome, but that would drive up the cost of production. A LOT

    Just humor me and tell me what YOUR dream MMO is.  If you had a free 3d MMORPG engine to use, what would your game be?

     I know you weren't asking me, but I cut/pasted something i wrote in another thread about sandbox type games...Its not everything, but in general what I wish we had.

     

    I would like to see a good (AAA) fantasy sandbox. We have some theme parks that are adding more sandbox options that are coming out....Now this could be very important...If people start migrating to games that offer more sandbox features, then you may start to get some reversal from the quest rail, and eventually someone may take the dip.

     

    I believe that a good cutting edge sandbox, with very good computer AI to run the world, with I am sure some GM assistance and oversight would be phenominal.

     

    I have posted a long list of options, features, and such before, but imagine a world where you as a solo player, or a guild could actually conquer/rule lands, become a ruler by using diplomacy in an already established (pve/AI) kingdom, be a crafter of anything (non-instanced houses, ships, castles etc...), have open AI created dungeons with unique items, bosses and layouts that once completed collapse...So you have to actually be an explorer and not repeat content....

     

    Then if the AI world percieves a player run kindgom is weak it may attack you to take your kingdom, just as you can do the same to players or pve entities....All the while, this does not interfer with those that do not participate in those battles (a home owner pays their tax, they don't care to who they pay it to)...Mechanics to minimize griefing, but not eliminate the danger of a open world....I would love to see like a Forgotten Realms game that could manage things like this, the world is very vast, with established lore and kingdoms....

     

    Sure the AI would need some baby sitting, but it would be nice if someone made a game that tried to simiulate how pve/ai entities would percieve and react to unique events that players and guilds do...Make it as close to a living world as possible in a fantasy setting. If you try to grab too much power or become a threat to the realm, you may get a coalition of kingdoms (player run and AI could team up with options of who gets the kingdom when they over throw the threat)....I would love to play this game.

  • AutemOxAutemOx Fullerton, CAPosts: 1,704Member

    Originally posted by lizardbones

    OK. I did not take this seriously the first time I responded to this thread, so I'm going to take another stab at it.



    You need to have designed your game. That means you should actually be able to play the game, on paper without actually writing any code. You need to avoid rewriting game related stuff as much as possible. It's inevitable that you'll need to rewrite something, but you should be able to avoid some of that by planning your game.



    Know your target audience, or at least have some idea of who the market is for your game. It is cool to write a game, but it's even cooler if people give you money because you wrote a game. Some idea of who you're writing the game for, besides yourself will help you.



    You'll need to raise more money, unless the game you're writing is a very small target. If you are your only employee, then 200,000 will probably carry you, by yourself, for four or five years. That's mostly it though...just you.



    Get a demo of your game written. This is what's going to help you with raising money. You'll need a bit of a demo to show people what the game is about. There are some systems out there that will help with getting a demo written, even if they are not what you'd use for a full fledged game. The Hero Cloud is one of them. There are some others, but the names escape me at the moment. You should get recent information on these systems though...don't rely on someone like me for stuff like that.



    There are people on these forums who have actually written games, are writing games and are working in the industry. Listen to those people, but keep in mind that you're not them, so you might have to do something a little different than they did.



    Consider getting a professional accountant. It doesn't have to be your own personal accountant, but accountants still exist for a reason these days and it's because they know what to do with money and the laws that are related to it.



    Once you start, do not give up. This can't be underestimated. Persistence is absolutely necessary. Grinding your way to max level in any game has nothing on actually writing a game. Do not give up.


    I do not want this to come off like an attack, but this post is nuts.  Everything from 'writing it out on paper first' to living off of $200,000 for only 4 years is terrible advice.  With a budget of $200k, you should be doing the programming yourself, having friends do QA, and paying for some professional help with graphics and marketing.  You should NOT be paying yourself more than $20k a year (this poster wants you to do everything yourself and spend $50k a year??).

    Having an accountant is hands down a waste of money when you have so little, only hire an accountant or lawyer for consultation if you have a specific question.

    BUT probably the nuttiest thing this post says though and the reason I HAD to respond to it is 'writing it all down first'.  That is a sure way to waste your time and burn away your motivation for working on the project.  Get a general idea of what you want your game to be, break it into something incredibly basic that you believe you can finish with 1/4 of the $$.  Then make that.  If you have any money left (and you probably wont) start adding other features, otherwise its time to release the game.  If you try to write out everything right now you will overwhelm yourself technically, exhaust your motivation, and become frustrated with the slow progress of your work.

    Even people with littlest imagination and largest tech savvy can imagine faster than they can program.  Make smart decisions while programming your game, only plan out features that you MUST plan.  For instance, I am working on a game now that I know in the future I will want to be multiplayer, so I have been taking steps to allow me to easily update all the code to sync across multiple clients, a game being multiplayer will change the fundemental way the game is coded.  If I were to build a singleplayer game and then try to make it multiplayer, I would waste a ton of time coding.  However, I do not plan out all the features and mini-games I want in the game, because those can be tacked on later easily without updating older code.

    If you are the type of person who does not finish projects they start then it is especially important to not make design choices before programming in the last choice you made.  It will help keep you interested in working on your project.  It is not ideal, something in the middle is more ideal, but not planning at all is better than planning every detail, especially for an indie game.

    Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,505Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by kevin_123

    If I want to start a game studio and make an MMORPG, how much money would I need? Would a couple hundred thousdand dollars be enough? Do programmers/artists out there prefer to work on indie projects rather than for big companies where they're just another cog in a machine?
     
    I've also always had the idea of buying a cheap house in a cheap country like India or the Philipines, getting in touch with a bunch of good artists and programmers straight from university, fly them all out to to the 'Headquarters' which is just a large house/compound and make a game. All you need are computers, and you can live very comfortably in these countries for a couple thousand USD per person.
     
    Is this a stupid plan that I should just forget straight away? It's just, if I was a programmer/artist who just got out from university and got offered to work on a project where my cost of living would be paid for, I'd be offered a very reasonable share in a company that could potentially be making a lot of money, and I'd be living in a new cool exotic country... I don't know but that sounds pretty good to me. Worst case scenario the game fails and everyone get's a long holiday. Something like this could probably be done with a budget of around 100 000 USD IF there would be people willing to work for free.
     
    What do you think?



    Well i recently got togeather with a few people and we are all working on a game in our spare time, there are numerous engines available to indie companies for free or for very little. It was lucky really we all played games togeather and we all had the different skills needed to start creating a game. Might take us a bit longer LOL but we dont have to worry about creating a game engnie so thats cut a lot of the time and it will give us some good experience and insight into the industry. We have out main idea for a MMORPG but we are not attempting that first tho development for it is on-gonig we are looking into a slightly different game to start with but based in the same universe..

     

    Anyway so its actually possible to start work on a game for nothing if you know the right people and they are willing.

     

    If you want to pay people because you have no skills yourself and just have an idea then 100k USD is not enough for any major countries. As you said there are places where you can actually live on very little, india, romainia and others.. I guess if you where willing to move to one of those countries then it would be very possible to create an MMO with that kind of budget.

    The expense used to be buying an engine and the other tools needed like Maya or 3dmax but now there are alternatives available for nothing, like I said most major game engines now have indie licenses and there are 3d packages available for free like blender maybe not quite as good as Maya or 3dMax but they will do the job fine.. The hero engine that the new starwars game is using used to cost a few 100k now you can basically get it for free to start with and then pay a 30% royalty fee...others do similar things, Unity 3D is totally free...

     

    Anyway so yes its possible to do what your asking if you really wnt to move to one of those countries..

     

     

  • TaiphozTaiphoz IrvinePosts: 328Member Uncommon

    I actually do not agree with almost all of you.

     

    There are hundreds of tallented programmers here in the west that would work on the project like this, getting a job when you leave UNI is not easy people who think it is either did not goto UNI or did and just got lucky, unemployement is rising world wide and finding jobs is getting harder.

    A programmer looking to pad their CV would jump at this opertunity although having it in some other country is a bad idea, keep it local.

     

    the only thing a AAA company has over an INDIE is time, and money, and most of the money is spent on hiring hundreds of artists, programemrs, and musicians, actors, stunt men and all sorts of other crap, and I call it crap for a reason, because their not needed, AAA developers do this because they want to cram as much development into as short a period of time as possible.

     

    A handful of programmers and artists can acheive the same results in a similar time as long as their design and scope is well thought out and not to wide.

     

    Look at Inifnity, sure its not out yet, but look at it, and thats a very small team, I can also point you at an MMO engine and complete source in fact there are a few , open source mmo engines around you just need to know where to look.

     

    So if your really looking to do this, go for it, but keep it local, keep the team small so you have some spare cash to buy assets, art, music etc, and keep your scope narrow and small, its easier to add stuff later than to try and do everything right from the start.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,505Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Dvalon





    Look at Inifnity, sure its not out yet, but look at it, and thats a very small team, I can also point you at an MMO engine and complete source in fact there are a few , open source mmo engines around you just need to know where to look.
     

    Only issue with open source engines is that you cant really make money from them.. better to go with one of the big engines out there..

    http://mmorpgmaker.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=9414

    Unity3d - needs 3rd party network software(lots available)

    CyEngine - again needs 3rd party networking software like raknet

    UDK - again needs 3rd party networking software

    Vision Engine - Need to request a trial

    There are others as well and nearly all do some kind of indie lic for next to nothing now..Infact just checking out http://mmorpgmaker.com/ would be a good start anyway, nice forums with people that know a lot of MMORPGS. :)

     

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare

    Originally posted by Dvalon

    I actually do not agree with almost all of you.
    There are hundreds of tallented programmers here in the west that would work on the project like this, getting a job when you leave UNI is not easy people who think it is either did not goto UNI or did and just got lucky, unemployement is rising world wide and finding jobs is getting harder.
    A programmer looking to pad their CV would jump at this opertunity although having it in some other country is a bad idea, keep it local.
    the only thing a AAA company has over an INDIE is time, and money, and most of the money is spent on hiring hundreds of artists, programemrs, and musicians, actors, stunt men and all sorts of other crap, and I call it crap for a reason, because their not needed, AAA developers do this because they want to cram as much development into as short a period of time as possible.
    A handful of programmers and artists can acheive the same results in a similar time as long as their design and scope is well thought out and not to wide.
    Look at Inifnity, sure its not out yet, but look at it, and thats a very small team, I can also point you at an MMO engine and complete source in fact there are a few , open source mmo engines around you just need to know where to look.
    So if your really looking to do this, go for it, but keep it local, keep the team small so you have some spare cash to buy assets, art, music etc, and keep your scope narrow and small, its easier to add stuff later than to try and do everything right from the start.

    That makes for an excellent Coca Cola commercial at Christmas time, but there is a huge difference between possible and probably. That difference becomes a critical difference when oneis actually looking to engage in a profitable endeavour. In that regard, most of what you said does not apply. One can be dreamy and unrealistic when working on a hobby or side project. The entire game changes when you actually are looking to get a paycheck out of it.

    The chance of a hodge podge of volunteers bringing a profitable project to completion on time or to spec is so low that no sane person would ever consider it.  I'm not saying a bunch of volunteers can't make an MMO. They can. That's not what the OP is asking.  He's asking if he can pay a few hundred thousand in food/housing to have a full team move to a commune and work for free for three years on a game that the OP intends to make money off of.

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • anemoanemo Posts: 975Member Uncommon

    This is a silly queustion.  You should be starting with how many man hours do I need to make this MMO, then figure out how to get those man hours.

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • neorandomneorandom bev hills, CAPosts: 1,681Member

    Originally posted by kevin_123

    If I want to start a game studio and make an MMORPG, how much money would I need? Would a couple hundred thousdand dollars be enough? Do programmers/artists out there prefer to work on indie projects rather than for big companies where they're just another cog in a machine?
     
    I've also always had the idea of buying a cheap house in a cheap country like India or the Philipines, getting in touch with a bunch of good artists and programmers straight from university, fly them all out to to the 'Headquarters' which is just a large house/compound and make a game. All you need are computers, and you can live very comfortably in these countries for a couple thousand USD per person.
     
    Is this a stupid plan that I should just forget straight away? It's just, if I was a programmer/artist who just got out from university and got offered to work on a project where my cost of living would be paid for, I'd be offered a very reasonable share in a company that could potentially be making a lot of money, and I'd be living in a new cool exotic country... I don't know but that sounds pretty good to me. Worst case scenario the game fails and everyone get's a long holiday. Something like this could probably be done with a budget of around 100 000 USD IF there would be people willing to work for free.
     
    What do you think?

    well if you consider living comfortably having malaria colera and the plague sure, go for it.

     

    theres a reason its cheap to live in india, nobody wants to live theren, not even the indians.

  • TrikkeTrikke Jackson, MIPosts: 90Member

    Originally posted by kevin_123

    If I want to start a game studio and make an MMORPG, how much money would I need? Would a couple hundred thousdand dollars be enough? Do programmers/artists out there prefer to work on indie projects rather than for big companies where they're just another cog in a machine?
     
    I've also always had the idea of buying a cheap house in a cheap country like India or the Philipines, getting in touch with a bunch of good artists and programmers straight from university, fly them all out to to the 'Headquarters' which is just a large house/compound and make a game. All you need are computers, and you can live very comfortably in these countries for a couple thousand USD per person.
     
    Is this a stupid plan that I should just forget straight away? It's just, if I was a programmer/artist who just got out from university and got offered to work on a project where my cost of living would be paid for, I'd be offered a very reasonable share in a company that could potentially be making a lot of money, and I'd be living in a new cool exotic country... I don't know but that sounds pretty good to me. Worst case scenario the game fails and everyone get's a long holiday. Something like this could probably be done with a budget of around 100 000 USD IF there would be people willing to work for free.
     
    What do you think?

    Most programers fresh out of school make between 35k and 40k a year + heath ect... then you have important decisions to make like are you going to by an IP or make one yourself. if you buy an engine you will need somewhere around 1 mill. for a cheap one. not to mention office space hardware. power, test servers. contractors.

  • ZenoLocZenoLoc Oklahoma, OKPosts: 71Member Uncommon

    It's a well known fact that every MMO costs $173.25 to make.

    The rest is all spent on donuts and Rum in the break room.

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