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Shenanigans!!! So you say you like sandboxes/sandbox features, so why are you NOT playing Vanguard a

MaquiameMaquiame Posts: 797Member Uncommon

Please explain why, I need to hear the reasons, because I call shenanigans. Hey with all the energy that is spent flaming themepark forums, why are sandboxers or those who like sandbox features not playing Ryzom or Vanguard? Both are very good games that have alot to offer, and there are free trials for both of them.

So, what is your reason for not playing these games? Or is it because of the PVE focus of these games that keeps you away from that (what does sandbox have to do with pvp I will never know)

*Waits and listens...........

Eve is a good sandbox game too but I think its too niche for alot of people, lets have some other sandbox games that are out now that people should be playing but don't, please list them in question form.

Soooo, you saay you like sandboxes, soo why are no not playing Perpetuuum or Eve for that matter?, etc....

image

Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

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Comments

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    Do a search for this very same topic....Asked and answered...

     

  • NeverdyneNeverdyne Guatemala CityPosts: 167Member

    I played the Vanguard free trial. To be honest, the game engine feels cluncky and unpolished. I think that's the major reason, at least for me, to not play sandbox games. Most of them are very unpolished, buggy, and the combat is not as smooth or fluid as triple A themeparks. Another high deterant for me was to know that I would be mostly playing alone in Vanguard. 

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member

    Personally I burned my fingers on Vanguard at launch. It certainly had some very good points. But content was just rushing past and was horribly broken in many cases.. and doing anything would make you outlevel the content before experiencing it.

    Aaaand it didnt feel very sandboxy at all.

    Never tried Ryzom though.. I dont really know why.. Might give it a shot though.

  • StizzledStizzled Springfield, MOPosts: 1,264Member Uncommon

    Why aren't all themepark fans still playing EQ, or EQ 2, WoW, LoTRO, Vanguard (this is not a sandbox btw), Aion, Rift, <insert themepark here>? Just because a game is a sandbox doesn't mean that it's for every sandbox fan. Silly question if you ask me.


  • AngelfireAngelfire Middle of Nowhere, TXPosts: 145Member

    Or Fallen Earth .. games dont get alot more sandbox than it. And its actually a really good game. Not as much now thats its F2P though you can still subscribe to get the full experience and I actually recommend it.

  • dreamsofwardreamsofwar bangorPosts: 468Member

    Originally posted by Maquiame

    Please explain why, I need to hear the reasons, because I call shenanigans. Hey with all the energy that is spent flaming themepark forums, why are sandboxers or those who like sandbox features not playing Ryzom or Vanguard? Both are very good games that have alot to offer, and there are free trials for both of them.

    So, what is your reason for not playing these games? Or is it because of the PVE focus of these games that keeps you away from that (what does sandbox have to do with pvp I will never know)

    *Waits and listens...........

    Eve is a good sandbox game too but I think its too niche for alot of people, lets have some other sandbox games that are out now that people should be playing but don't, please list them in question form.

    Soooo, you saay you like sandboxes, soo why are no not playing Perpetuuum or Eve for that matter?, etc....

    Because not everyone wants to be confined to a ship or some other mechanical contraption.

    Core gameplay isn't enough, you have to like the setting.

  • DexterMMODexterMMO Houston, TXPosts: 484Member

    This is just my opinion and I've had it for a while.

    I can agree, i'd love the creation of the mystical dream sandbox that every sandbox player yearns for but I'm also not anti-themepark so when a sandbox player is anti-themepark but refuses to play any of the sanboxes out there for a long period of time... That in a way makes them anti-sandbox and because they're already anti-themepark they have become anti MMO and just can't see it.

    Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member

    Originally posted by Maquiame

    Soooo, you saay you like sandboxes, soo why are no not playing Perpetuuum or Eve for that matter?, etc....

    I do like sandboxes, and I am playing EVE.

    What was your point again?

    El Psy Congroo

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

    I played Vanguard, but.

    1. It's "supported" by SoE, all games that SoE buys die.

    2. It has no support.

    3. There are almost no people playing because of (2), no one is around to do arena gear at lower levels etc.

    4. It's too expensive, it just is. You get no support but are paying as much as WOW, too much.

    So I quit.

     

    If I want to play something like Vanguard, I can simply play Rift, it also has an abundance of quests and an open world, but it's actually supported.

  • onthestickonthestick MarrakechPosts: 600Member

    Originally posted by Unreal024

    Why aren't all themepark fans still playing EQ, or EQ 2, WoW, LoTRO, Vanguard (this is not a sandbox btw), Aion, Rift, ? Just because a game is a sandbox doesn't mean that it's for every sandbox fan. Silly question if you ask me.

    Actuall majority of players are enjoying themepark. But how often do you see themepark players starting topics or making posts just to trash sandbox games? now compare that to angry sand box players who spend most of their time trashing themepark MMOS.

    I play both by the way and i have no reason to be anrgy at either genre. The day people understand that both are seperate genre and people enjoy different things in life..you won't see topics like this.

    How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?

    ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
    US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
    Subs will be so low there is no need for more
    Snoocky-How many servers?
    The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...

    Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.

  • Dren_UtogiDren_Utogi OuterSpacePosts: 1,713Member Uncommon

    I play both games. on a per month bsases.

    reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member

    I guess when I think of a "virtual world" I don't imagine an adventure that ends due to some sort of cap on my character's power (level).

    I imagine freedom, choice, and meaningful interactions between people.

    El Psy Congroo

  • mcrippinsmcrippins Dallas, TXPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon

    Tried Vanguard - didn't like and I failed to see anything sandboxish about it. I think I tried Ryzom a looong time ago, but didn't see anyone playing. Maybe I didn't play it long enough.

     

    You know.. it seems to be common line with sandbox games that developers mess up a good thing. UO is a sandbox and still going. The game was revamped a bit when they added a new continent for the people who didnt like pvp. This pissed off a good portion of the player base because it completely removed the risk vs reward aspect which made the game so damn interesting and fun. Made it carebear more or less. SWG - well.. most people already know what happened there. They changed the skill system to a class system among other things. Made the game crap which is why 90% of the player base decided to have a mass exodus. EvE is a good game.. hell it's a great game. I had a fun time, but it is very niche, and very hardcore. There are other games out there with sandbox elements. But for the most part they have something really jacked up in the gameplay which makes them not worth playing.

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member


    • Why are people calling Vangard a sandbox?


    • Is Ryzom still alive?  As alive as Vangard, even?


     

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon

    It is not sufficient to produce a theme park without quests and call it a sandbox. Oh, and adding 200 skills to grind won't make up for it either. You need 'systems' that keep players occupied. Politics, land conquest, building etc. I hope one day someone will produce a proper (and properly funded and managed) sandbox. DF, Mortal, Earthrise. Hardly great ambassadors for the sandbox.

    @whoever mentioned Fallen Earth, that was a wierd one, I really liked it but still stopped playing, I am not completely sure why.

  • pieholepiehole KlippanPosts: 43Member

    Is skillsystem, i.e classless system an ingredient of sanbox genre? That is one that I almost allways miss in most games.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Because they are not good sandbox games. Just because I like sandbox MMORPGs, or sci-fi movies, does not mean I will like every title released in that cathegory.

    Asherons Call 1 was an excellent sandbox MMORPG and there simply have not been anything like it released since.

    SWG was ok but suffered from massive amounts of bugs and boring combat and PvP.

    Vanguard I dont consider a sandbox, the game was huge but was still more themepark in the sense that there were heavy level and class restrictions on where you could go.

    Ryzom I tried and it was just weird and boring. Didn't get into their skill system and wierd creatures and the fact that it had gone bankrupt didn't help either.

    Shadowbane was a nice PvP sandbox but eventually failed due to lack of dev. support.

    Darkfall/Mortal Online are just plain poor games, sandbox or not. And the fact is that there hasn't been a properly funded and developed sandbox MMORPG in years so it is not us sandbox fans to blame for not playing sandbox games, there are simply no good ones around which are not 10 years old.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member

    Sandbox isn't about levels or skill systems really.  It's about what it sounds like!  The freedom for the person playing in the sand, to do what they want with it.  Sure some games have a shovel and others a bucket. 

    A game like TOR though is more like walking along a beach and seeing a sandcastle someone else built, before continuing on to the next, larger sandcastle until you get to the biggest one and then repeatedly walk around it until the paid expansions offer more sandcastles.

    El Psy Congroo

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Originally posted by piehole

    Is skillsystem, i.e classless system an ingredient of sanbox genre? That is one that I almost allways miss in most games.

    It is in the sense that it gives greater freedom for you to go and fight mobs where you like, or where you have put your skill points in, and not based on an artifical class or level number. However it is not the only ingredient for a sandbox MMORPG.

  • onthestickonthestick MarrakechPosts: 600Member

    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    Sandbox isn't about levels or skill systems really.  It's about what it sounds like!  The freedom for the person playing in the sand, to do what they want with it.  Sure some games have a shovel and others a bucket. 

    A game like TOR though is more like walking along a beach and seeing a sandcastle someone else built, before continuing on to the next, larger sandcastle until you get to the biggest one and then repeatedly walk around it until the paid expansions offer more sandcastles.

    Yes because it is called a themepark. It is like me going to EVE and Darkfall and complaining it is not more like theempark MMOS. I love sand boxes for what they offer and themepark for its own offerings. And i prefer to keep these two genre seperate. 

    How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?

    ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
    US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
    Subs will be so low there is no need for more
    Snoocky-How many servers?
    The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...

    Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.

  • DexterMMODexterMMO Houston, TXPosts: 484Member

    Ultima Online, one of the first MMO's some how had the best skill system out there. 0-100 skills with 100 being a Grand Master and a skill cap like each player can only acquire 700 skill points out of the many skills available. Thats the only way to balancea sand box so even new players can jump in and one day be equal. Want to know what happens when you have no skill cap? Ask Darkfall... the completely boycotted pretty much any new player by letting them get demolished by vets with maxed out everything in a game that after all the exploit fixes prolly takes 6 months to a year to max out a large amount of stuff.

    Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member

    Originally posted by onthestick

    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    Sandbox isn't about levels or skill systems really.  It's about what it sounds like!  The freedom for the person playing in the sand, to do what they want with it.  Sure some games have a shovel and others a bucket. 

    A game like TOR though is more like walking along a beach and seeing a sandcastle someone else built, before continuing on to the next, larger sandcastle until you get to the biggest one and then repeatedly walk around it until the paid expansions offer more sandcastles.

    Yes because it is called a themepark. It is like me going to EVE and Darkfall and complaining it is not more like theempark MMOS. I love sand boxes for what they offer and themepark for its own offerings. And i prefer to keep these two genre seperate. 

    It was an example of a themepark, as you say.  No complaining, just explaining!  :)

    El Psy Congroo

  • StizzledStizzled Springfield, MOPosts: 1,264Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by onthestick

    Originally posted by Unreal024

    Why aren't all themepark fans still playing EQ, or EQ 2, WoW, LoTRO, Vanguard (this is not a sandbox btw), Aion, Rift, ? Just because a game is a sandbox doesn't mean that it's for every sandbox fan. Silly question if you ask me.

    Actuall majority of players are enjoying themepark. But how often do you see themepark players starting topics or making posts just to trash sandbox games? now compare that to angry sand box players who spend most of their time trashing themepark MMOS.

    I play both by the way and i have no reason to be anrgy at either genre. The day people understand that both are seperate genre and people enjoy different things in life..you won't see topics like this.

    I understand that, but that's not whay I'm saying. My post had nothing to do with the population of any of those games. The OP is basically saying "You want a sandbox, this game is a sandbox, why aren't you playing it?". The reason that a sandbox fan isn't playing 'x' sandbox game is because they obviously don't enjoy it. Just as not every themepark fan enjoys WoW or Rift, which is why I say it's a silly question.

     

    As for why some sandbox fans trash themepark games in forums, well, mostly because of frustration. It's good that people who enjoy themeparks (and sandbox fans who also enjoy themeparks) have interesting games to play. But, imagine having nothing. A new themepark comes out atleast once or twice a year, themepark fans have quite a selection to choose from. If the same could be said for sandbox games then you wouldn't see as much 'trolling' and there wouldn't be any need for posts like these. It's very frustrating that no 'good' (good being a very key word) dev house is willing to attempt a true sandbox title. Now perhaps they should take the high road and just not post in any game's forums that they have no interest in. But the truth is, they are still as addicted to the genre as any themepark fan. They cannot give it up, and for that reason I'm afraid that themepark fans are just going to have to live with it.


  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon

    Played EVE for 6 years. Even though I object to the FFA PvP and see forced without consent mechanics as anti social and bullying.

    Played Ryzom back before the bankruptcy and loved it on a crafting level and the basic combat systems but the mobs were over the top where they could chain in the hundreds, everything was aggro and it was a gauntlet from the time you left a town untill you entered one. Mandatory blobbing and forced grouping is not the core of Sandbox.

    Played Perp as well. It's too small and tried to replicate the FFA PvP in EVE but because its so small you couldn't escape it like you can in EVE. It is a griefers paradise right now, not a sandbox.

    Vanguard got hit by the NGE bus that drives by the SOE door every time they try and launch a game.

    ----

    I have tried every single MMO that appears on the cover to be a sandbox but they are all litter boxes full of griefers and assholes. "Go play Second Life" people say. Its a cash shop scam just like Entropia, worse actually because Entropia has a harvest system in content. You buy everything in second life in a piece by piece fashion. Oh and the graphics look like shit. Games like Entropia and Second life forgot that computer and software tech are obselete at launch. They try and make it virtual investment but they won't invest themselves. Graphics packs annually or GTFO.

    ----

    Sandbox is not FFA unconsenting bully fests. Figure out another way to clean up server space. SOE did. Subscription based, you aren't subscribed they pack your house up. Maintenance. Don't maintain your on server structures, they fade away and vanish, along with everything in them. Keep valuables in a bank vault.

    Every "sandbox" MMO out there has elements of Sandbox with a catch. No catch, no rope a dope, no griefers clause pls.

  • onthestickonthestick MarrakechPosts: 600Member

    Originally posted by Unreal024

    Originally posted by onthestick


    Originally posted by Unreal024

    Why aren't all themepark fans still playing EQ, or EQ 2, WoW, LoTRO, Vanguard (this is not a sandbox btw), Aion, Rift, ? Just because a game is a sandbox doesn't mean that it's for every sandbox fan. Silly question if you ask me.

    Actuall majority of players are enjoying themepark. But how often do you see themepark players starting topics or making posts just to trash sandbox games? now compare that to angry sand box players who spend most of their time trashing themepark MMOS.

    I play both by the way and i have no reason to be anrgy at either genre. The day people understand that both are seperate genre and people enjoy different things in life..you won't see topics like this.

    I understand that, but that's not whay I'm saying. My post had nothing to do with the population of any of those games. The OP is basically saying "You want a sandbox, this game is a sandbox, why aren't you playing it?". The reason that a sandbox fan isn't playing 'x' sandbox game is because they obviously don't enjoy it. Just as not every themepark fan enjoys WoW or Rift, which is why I say it's a silly question.

     

    As for why some sandbox fans trash themepark games in forums, well, mostly because of frustration. It's good that people who enjoy themeparks (and sandbox fans who also enjoy themeparks) have interesting games to play. But, imagine having nothing. A new themepark comes out atleast once or twice a year, themepark fans have quite a selection to choose from. If the same could be said for sandbox games then you wouldn't see as much 'trolling' and there wouldn't be any need for posts like these. It's very frustrating that no 'good' (good being a very key word) dev house is willing to attempt a true sandbox title. Now perhaps they should take the high road and just not post in any game's forums that they have no interest in. But the truth is, they are still as addicted to the genre as any themepark fan. They cannot give it up, and for that reason I'm afraid that themepark fans are just going to have to live with it.

    Sorry but that is no excuse now is it? ;) i have seen countless times sandbox players getting angry not only at themepark MMOS but also with those who play it. Generalising and calling themepark players childish, un intelligent and what not. I think this is the part OP was trying to focus upon. Posting about your un satisfaction is another thing but blaming themepark players and game they enjoy and getting personal is something else.

     

    How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?

    ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
    US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
    Subs will be so low there is no need for more
    Snoocky-How many servers?
    The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...

    Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.

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