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Are Voice Overs destined to be the new "must have" feature, or just a gimmick?

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  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Colorado Springs, COPosts: 4,183Member

    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul


    Originally posted by SethiusX


    Originally posted by Puremallace

    It depends honestly. If they slow content down to a crawl people will call it a gimick that can not be realistically done. If Bioware proves they can turn a profit and push out content, then it changes the genre.

     

    It is just like free transfers in Rift. If EA/Bioware charges for them the very first comment in that thread will be "why you charging when they are free in Rift?"

     

    If it is one of those things just simply added and they make it look easy expect a CRAPPPP ton of preasure of Blizzard and other devs to do it.

     

    I think there is a good point here that I hadn't thought about. Will it slow content production down to a crawl? (obviously we can't answer this yet). If it does slow it down too much, then SWTOR might have a hard time lasting because players will get bored of the themepark style without constant new content. I wonder if Bioware is up to the challenge. If Bioware can do it fast, it could be a game changer, no?

    How much time can it possibly take to have an actor read lines off from a piece of paper?? Certainly not more time than it takes to actually code the new content. And since one can be done while the other is taking place, I doubt it will slow things down too much.

    Adding VO is vastly more complicated than text. The actual actor is just a small part of the process.

    Not really. A program is used to match the lip movement to the spoken word, and the rest of the animating can be done while the other teams work on the actual content. It's not that complex, really.

    If modders can do it in their spare time for Oblivion, I'm sure a dedicated gaming developer can handle it with no major issues.

    image

  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx North York, ONPosts: 2,360Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kenze

    just a gimmick. I doubt even Bioware will continue with full VO's in futre content.

    Because their gaming track record has proved this right?

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

    Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

    Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx North York, ONPosts: 2,360Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Grotar89

    I skipped 90% of VO while playing TOR, most of them are unnecessary...

    Well story is only nessessary if you want to hear it, if you just want to grind mindlessly then obviously it will be a hinderance.

     

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

    Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

    Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    Originally posted by Grotar89

    I skipped 90% of VO while playing TOR, most of them are unnecessary...

    Well story is only nessessary if you want to hear it, if you just want to grind mindlessly then obviously it will be a hinderance.

    You realize that you can have wonderful story WITHOUT voice over?

    You can also have great dialog without voice over or even without cutscenes...

     

     

    I really don't like polarization saying "you're not amazed by VO then you're grinder and don't care about story" <-- this is NOT true, at least not in my case.

     

     

    Not to mention thart full VO have a tendency to LIMIT and SIMPLIFY dialogue cause of costs. Making long, complex, many options dialogue with full VO vs. part VO or text only is HUGE diffrent in cost.

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by Grotar89

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    VO yes, cutscenes no.

     

    I find cutscenes to be highly irritating.

    Yup this ^^ cutscenes are main reason for skipping VO it just slows down the game.

    I always bring up my favorite example how VO compliments game-events with Sunwell Plateau in WoW.

    When you fight Kil'jaeden, you get some really nice VO lines from both the boss and your alies, everything is unfolding in front of your eyes but you are not watching a cutscene, you are playing the game.

     

    Its more of a narration of the events, like in Bastion, than what Bioware is doing right now.

    image
  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member

     


    Originally posted by dreamscaper

    It's a gimmick.

     Is it nice to have? Certainly. But when we have an industry whose number one problem is pushing titles out the door before they're ready, adding voiceovers to the list is only going to exacerbate the problem. What we need is refined and improved gameplay, not more ways to try to treat a MMO as a single-player game. They're different types of games and should be treated as such.

    Yeah, it's totally a gimmick.  Like when they added voice to movies.  What a waste, they should totally go back to silent, movies would be much more popular.


    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,779Member Uncommon

    Voiceovers always have been a dumb gimmick.  They will remain as such until they can talk comprehensibly and without sounding rushed about as quickly as players can read.  I hope that day never comes, as it would mean players are largely illiterate.

    Okay, so a few voiceovers are fine, but it should either be very short (<5 seconds) or for something special.  As in, congratulations, you've beaten the game, now here's a long voiceover as part of the ending.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,908Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by dreamscaper

    It's a gimmick.

     

    Is it nice to have? Certainly. But when we have an industry whose number one problem is pushing titles out the door before they're ready, adding voiceovers to the list is only going to exacerbate the problem. What we need is refined and improved gameplay, not more ways to try to treat a MMO as a single-player game. They're different types of games and should be treated as such.

     Just about any change to the genre is going to come from outside the genre. Be it multi-player features from predominate SPG's, or single-player oriented aspects of SPG's. That's how the industry as a whole works no matter what the genre. The gaming industry has always been this way, it's due to a finite amount of ideas that can be exclusive to one genre. What makes matters worse is precendent, what I mean by that is refinement will only be reached when a better way has been discovered. People will then follow that precedent until it too becomes stale and boxes stop moving from shelves.

    The Problem for people like you is, boxes are still moving from shelves, subscriptions are being paid, and companies are making money. SWTOR is estimated to already have sold over a million boxes worldwide. That's just boxes... which brings up the old adage "don't fix what isn't broke".

    IMO it's time for those who want something different to stop buying what they obviously don't want, in doing so you're only enabling the trend to continue.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx North York, ONPosts: 2,360Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fenistil

    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx


    Originally posted by Grotar89

    I skipped 90% of VO while playing TOR, most of them are unnecessary...

    Well story is only nessessary if you want to hear it, if you just want to grind mindlessly then obviously it will be a hinderance.

    You realize that you can have wonderful story WITHOUT voice over?

    You can also have great dialog without voice over or even without cutscenes...

     

     

    I really don't like polarization saying "you're not amazed by VO then you're grinder and don't care about story" <-- this is NOT true, at least not in my case.

    So you want to go back to the wall of texts? really? let me answer that for you, it is because you want to go back to fucking ignoring the story. Because lets face it, Books are awesome, audiobooks are better.  Quests are awesome, voiced quests are better.

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

    Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

    Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

    Originally posted by fenistil


    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx


    Originally posted by Grotar89

    I skipped 90% of VO while playing TOR, most of them are unnecessary...

    Well story is only nessessary if you want to hear it, if you just want to grind mindlessly then obviously it will be a hinderance.

    You realize that you can have wonderful story WITHOUT voice over?

    You can also have great dialog without voice over or even without cutscenes...

     

     

    I really don't like polarization saying "you're not amazed by VO then you're grinder and don't care about story" <-- this is NOT true, at least not in my case.

    So you want to go back to the wall of texts? really? let me answer that for you, it is because you want to go back to fucking ignoring the story. Because lets face it, Books are awesome, audiobooks are better.  Quests are awesome, voiced quests are better.

    What?!?!

     

    You don't know me so don't assume things about me.

     

    First thing - books are BETTER for me than audiobooks.

    Second - wall of text with accept / cancel button is bad

    BUT

    Dialogues in Planescape Torment or Fallout 2 were MUCH better than those simplified, paraphrased garbage that is in modern Bioware games.

    Those dialogues are simplistic and lack depth and follow always 3 mood choices :good, neutral, bad <-- which actually is ridiculosely bad design imho.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kenze

    just a gimmick. I doubt even Bioware will continue with full VO's in futre content.

    Just look at GW2 and SWTOR, and you will realise that there is no way back anymore...

     

    Is it new?

     

    No, SOE wanted to make EQ2 fully voice overed, but they could never finish that because they hurried to game out to beat WoW's release date.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx North York, ONPosts: 2,360Member Uncommon

    It is hilarious, The mmo genre has degraded the need for telling a story so much that people actually believe it is a hinderance when the game actually has one. I assure you all of oyu people who are against story in an MMO, forget that RPG is at the end of that acryonym. And you same people who would rather not have it because it "SLows you down" havent played the game or prefer to grind in game.

    Ive done situatiations in game, where i have completely talked myself into a fight, out of a fight, talked other parties to fight each other, all netting the same xp, taking the time to enjoy the story doesnt slow you down, it adds. You start to give a shit about what happens in game, which no other MMO can claim to do.

    But if you are deadset on hating the Voice overs, then, you reserve the right to smash spacebar, use it, you are only depriving yourself.

    But just like how single player RPG like Skyrim are now 100% voice over, when in the past they used to be 100% text, MMOs will be walking the same road, you think blizzards next MMO wont be 100% voiced? Get used to the cutscenes.

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

    Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

    Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  • MalaksbaneMalaksbane HeerlenPosts: 148Member

    Originally posted by fenistil

    ...

    Voice is very costly and in mmoprg's where you have alot of quests much more than in single player games - costs are astronomical.

    ...

    Really? Shall we guestimate a bit? 90 hours of VO in SWToR, say it's costs 110 hours to produce 1, then we are at approximately 10000 hours. What's that cost, $50-100 per hour? That's 500.000 - 1.000.000.

    If they sell 1 million boxes the voices have cost $0.50 - $1.00 per $60 box...

    Expensive, yeah, for me personally the costs would be astonomical, but for a production of this magnetude? Not.

     

    Besides, it would cost them more (in lost sales) if they didn't have the voice-overs.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,908Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Voiceovers always have been a dumb gimmick.  They will remain as such until they can talk comprehensibly and without sounding rushed about as quickly as players can read.  I hope that day never comes, as it would mean players are largely illiterate.

    Okay, so a few voiceovers are fine, but it should either be very short (<5 seconds) or for something special.  As in, congratulations, you've beaten the game, now here's a long voiceover as part of the ending.

    What does a design choice have to do with player literacy?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Originally posted by Malaksbane

    Originally posted by fenistil

    ...

    Voice is very costly and in mmoprg's where you have alot of quests much more than in single player games - costs are astronomical.

    ...

    Really? Shall we guestimate a bit? 90 hours of VO in SWToR, say it's costs 110 hours to produce 1, then we are at approximately 10000 hours. What's that cost, $50-100 per hour? That's 500.000 - 1.000.000.

    If they sell 1 million boxes the voices have cost $0.50 - $1.00 per $60 box...

    Expensive, yeah, for me personally the costs would be astonomical, but for a production of this magnetude? Not.

     

    Besides, it would cost them more (in lost sales) if they didn't have the voice-overs.

    I really think you should not assume costs if you don't have actual sources. Your guess estimations are as good as any other guess estimation.

     

     

     

  • wazaapwazaap copenhagenPosts: 19Member Common

    Originally posted by Kooshdin

    Voice overs are awesome. End off :P

     

     

    I agree 110%

    When i first started playing AoC i had this great feeling of beeing a part of a living world where the NPC's had personality and not just some text. After the beginner area, that feeling completely vanished. It actually was such a disapointment that i dident play much more than that.

     

    I love the voice acting in SWTOR. Finally a game where i dont end up skipping all the quest text just to get on with the grind.

    Im truely looking forward to the next chapter in my SWTOR saga. (The story of my smuggler)

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by Malaksbane

    Originally posted by fenistil

    ...

    Voice is very costly and in mmoprg's where you have alot of quests much more than in single player games - costs are astronomical.

    ...

    Really? Shall we guestimate a bit? 90 hours of VO in SWToR, say it's costs 110 hours to produce 1, then we are at approximately 10000 hours. What's that cost, $50-100 per hour? That's 500.000 - 1.000.000.

    If they sell 1 million boxes the voices have cost $0.50 - $1.00 per $60 box...

    Expensive, yeah, for me personally the costs would be astonomical, but for a production of this magnetude? Not.

     

    Besides, it would cost them more (in lost sales) if they didn't have the voice-overs.

    50$-100$ per hour? On what planet?

    I know people doing VO for radio, their pricing doesn't even start under 300$/hour and thats the bottom-feeders. It cost me 500$ to voice a 30min instructional video once.

    Seriously.

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,994Member Uncommon

    I haven't really experienced it yet, so I can't say for certain.  I would say that AAA titles will likely use more of it, smaller titles won't be able to justify the cost, and if and when a AAA sandbox title comes out they can leave it out as far as I'm concerned, I'll provide the voice overs myself.  image

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
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  • uthardautharda Houston, TXPosts: 15Member

    I've got an odd bias on this because i'm not in anyway a tv / movie person.

     

    I read an order of magnitude faster than a vo actor can talk.   While I care about story,  I hate waiting around passivley and waiting on an in game process.  The voice acting is making me re-consider playing.   Its just too cumbersome and slow.  

    This may be one of those "get off my damn lawn" moments.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,908Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by utharda

    I've got an odd bias on this because i'm not in anyway a tv / movie person.

     

    I read an order of magnitude faster than a vo actor can talk.   While I care about story,  I hate waiting around passivley and waiting on an in game process.  The voice acting is making me re-consider playing.   Its just too cumbersome and slow.  

    This may be one of those "get off my damn lawn" moments.

    Sounds more like one of those "I'm in a rush to get somewhere" moments..:P

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • DOGMA1138DOGMA1138 none of your buidnessPosts: 476Member Uncommon

    both, it is a gimmick but it will be a must have feature for all AAA MMO's, MMO's are begining to figure out how to pass on a story to the player in a persistant enviorment, ToR is the first step. But aslong as you can 1+space trough the entire story part with out missing out on any thing but the story it will be just a gimmick.

  • uthardautharda Houston, TXPosts: 15Member

    Its a fair point.   Although honestly, with a long work week, 2 children, 1 wife, 3 cats........

     

    I admit, I am fairly focused in m gaming time.    But  a large portion of it has to do with prefering reading to watching.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,908Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by utharda

    Its a fair point.   Although honestly, with a long work week, 2 children, 1 wife, 3 cats........

     

    I admit, I am fairly focused in m gaming time.    But  a large portion of it has to do with prefering reading to watching.

    Reading the dialogue in games can have it's merits, especially if a voiced NPC isn't voiced the way you'd imagine it would be.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • AcvivmAcvivm Austin, TXPosts: 321Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ltank

    Originally posted by stealthbr

    I personally can never go back. It's that good.

    Same.

    I'm with you guys, having played tons of MMOs over the years I feel its just time to start joining the rest of the industry, voice acting is just another way to improve and move the genre forward. Single players games have been doing this for ages and it only improved the story telling aspect in games and the industry as a whole.

    One example I go back to all the time when I think of how voice acting improves story telling is Tortage in AOC. That was one of my favorite leveling/tutorial zones put in an MMO and just look at how much entering the zones afterward felt like a different game once the voice acting disappeared. The voice acting completely changed the feeling of the game for me and pulled me right in, but as quickly as I was pulled into the story...it lost me when it went away.

    I can't see myself going back, MMOs are going to need to start improving somewhere or the genre as a whole is just going to stagnate and slowly die. Voice Acting is just one improvement but its not the end all solution that will answer all the problems with MMOs. It is a step in the right direction and for now I want more.

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  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member

    You know, now that I think of it, text really is so much better.  Let's not just get rid of VO, let's get rid of graphics too.  Who needs them, you can read a paragraph describing a room faster than you can absorb all the details of a graphically presented area, and it's a lot cheaper and faster to create.  And remember those tons of MUDs that had millions of people clamoring to play them?  Gaming really has just been going steadily downhill since Zork.

     


    Originally posted by fenistil

    Those dialogues are simplistic and lack depth and follow always 3 mood choices :good, neutral, bad <-- which actually is ridiculosely bad design imho.

    If you honestly think that, you clearly weren't paying much attention.


    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

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