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Like WoW? How so?

DexterMMODexterMMO Houston, TXPosts: 484Member

After actually playing the game the last couple weeks and not just being a spectator of speculation I find myself trying to understand this "Like WoW" thing. The highest I ever made it in WoW before I fell asleep out of boredom (This is true, I'm not just trashing) was an Orc to level 11. That's all I could take and this was when I tried to test the game post WotLK, I also bought the game at launch and made a human cleric named Jesus Chryst think I got that guy to 8-9. WoW was never for me obviously as I could never get into a grove of enjoyment even at the lower levels... shit bored me to tears.

 

Now playing SW:Tor ... I sit through every story anticipating the next dialogue sequence, freely farm all mobs on the path to my quests, level multiple classes (I can never level a second class in other games, I make 1 and thats it) and as I play this game I have yet to see anything remotely similar to WoW outside of the basic things that are similar to all Theme Park MMO's

 

So will someone please enlighten me how this game is degraded to be WoW with lightsabers or a WoW clone instead of SW:ToR. Please have actual experience in TOR and not just some troll because if theres something I'm missing I wanna know... I enjoy every aspect of this game and in WoW the only thing I enjoyed was how open the world is... everything else to me personally was a snooze fest.

Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.

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Comments

  • osiriszoranosiriszoran oakland park, FLPosts: 86Member

    MMOs are not indicative of their early levels bro. You wouldnt understand the comparison between the two without having experienced the end game content of WoW.

    Most new MMOs come with new car smell & eventually that will wear off.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon

    its the end game that is the same.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • PapaB34RPapaB34R StockholmPosts: 300Member

    well buttom mashing combat, same styled skill trees. Character creation pretty similar etc.. theres a lot but basicly I think it boils down to the buttom mashing combat, thats what pretty much define it but yeah... I like SWToR in many ways. I disliked WoW but hey I can outlive the boring combat simply because of the storyline, crafting, companions etc.

     

    Then again I have no illusions, this pretty much is WoW in space but its also a lot more then WoW ever could hope to accomplish.

    image

  • DexterMMODexterMMO Houston, TXPosts: 484Member

    So both of you have completed all the end game content? or is this just saying Raid = WoW? because EQ2 had raids and it launched first.

     


    Originally posted by PapaB34R

    well buttom mashing combat, same styled skill trees. Character creation pretty similar etc.. theres a lot but basicly I think it boils down to the buttom mashing combat, thats what pretty much define it but yeah... I like SWToR in many ways. I disliked WoW but hey I can outlive the boring combat simply because of the storyline, crafting, companions etc.

     

    Then again I have no illusions, this pretty much is WoW in space but its also a lot more then WoW ever could hope to accomplish.

    Everything you compared to WoW is a comparison to any theme park game... So how is this just not a Theme Park in space instead of it being "WoW"

    Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon

    edit, to answer your question, its the style of end-game that is the same.  At the end game  the high quality storytelling runs out, and they the game loses its greatest asset, so either Wow/themepark style endgame or level another char. 

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • osiriszoranosiriszoran oakland park, FLPosts: 86Member

    Its no secret what the end game will be for TOR. Raids, Warzones, & PvP areas on different planets. Kinda like Raids, batlegrounds, & PvP areas in WoW.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DexterMMO

    So both of you have completed all the end game content? or is this just saying Raid = WoW? because EQ2 had raids and it launched first.

     


    Originally posted by PapaB34R

    well buttom mashing combat, same styled skill trees. Character creation pretty similar etc.. theres a lot but basicly I think it boils down to the buttom mashing combat, thats what pretty much define it but yeah... I like SWToR in many ways. I disliked WoW but hey I can outlive the boring combat simply because of the storyline, crafting, companions etc.

     

    Then again I have no illusions, this pretty much is WoW in space but its also a lot more then WoW ever could hope to accomplish.

    Everything you compared to WoW is a comparison to any theme park game... So how is this just not a Theme Park in space instead of it being "WoW"

    you are correct, both wow and swtor are themeparks, tor is in space.  People compare against wow because it is the best themepark to date.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member
    If you have seen my posts here you know that I am a huge supporter of this game and I love it.


    That being said, even I know that there are many similarities to wow. I hate using the term wow clone for any game, simply because there is always more to a game than just what influences it's gameplay mechanics. Rift was very similar to wow, but I would never call it a "clone" because it also introduce many new things to the genre and deserved to be judged on it's own merit. It is it's own game.

    Now TOR, I would say stands even further apart from WoW than Rift while still bearing he mark of wow's influence. This can be seen in the combat system, many of the side quest objectives, and the general design of many gameplay systems besides the story elements.

    This does not mean the game is bad. There are some standards in a game like this that simply work, and work well.

    People will throw around the W word, and it's easy to do so when you look at the surface elements of the game. This game brings it's own style of evolution to the genre that can't be said to have been copied from WoW, and in several cases from any mmo ever made for that matter.

    Yes, it is a tab targeting cooldown action bar number mashing combat system, but so are many successful MMO's tha aren't wow and some that predate it.

    I wouldn't get to caught up in the "wow clone" business. It's impossible to deny that it shares some mechanics and elements with wow. It's also impossible to deny that it introduces some of it's own to the genre that neither Blizzard or anyone else have done before.

    In my opinion, the term "wow clone" has lost all meaning when discussing these games. It has been thrown around so much by so many people. It is a cliche. It often bears no impact on millions of gamers ability to enjoy the game of their choice.

    It is the easy insult to throw out there when someone doesn't have anything meaningful to say.

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  • 8BitAvatar8BitAvatar Frozen Tundra, WIPosts: 196Member

    The problem is, the "new" stuff that Bioware has introduced to the genre is still massively overshadowed by the tired and outdated theme park game design.

    I think we can all appreciate what Bioware has done with adding the fourth pillar, voice work, etc, etc.

    It's just that those new bells and whistles are unfortunately attached to something many MMO vets are burnt out on.

  • MithoronetteMithoronette Atlanta, GAPosts: 105Member

    Let's look at the hardcore analysis...

     

    WoW vs SWTOR

    Both contain a "W" and an "O".  Obviously WOW is the better of the two because it actually as TWO "W"'s over SWTOR.  SWTOR only is more flashier because it has an "S", "T", and "R"...but it is sharing letter with WOW so therefore is a spin-off.

     

    "World of Warcraft" vs "Star Wars: The Old Republic"

    In a deeper analysis, we can examine them both further...

    First WOW (to use the abbreviation and not have to write the full name out each time) contains 15 letters, five of which are repeated, so only 10 unique letters.  SWTOR contains 21 letters, only 4 of which are repeated, but one that's used THREE TIMES (R), hence it must be a repetitive game to have that much rehashed lettering.  That the game contains 28% more lettering may indicate more content than WoW, but that it shares the lettering is cause for some to worry.  If we remove the redundancy that SWTOR has over WOW, then we see that there is only a 1% difference in uniqueness in the number of letters...I think this is where a lot of the consternation between players is coming from.  Some will side that the 1% difference is good, others will say it is not. 

    SWTOR (to use the abbreviation and not have to write the full name out each time) shares 13 of the same letters as WOW...that's 13/22 of the total letters of the name, so over 59% of SWTOR comes from WOW, hence how could it not be a rehash of the game itself?

    It's too early to judge the two mainly because WoW, being older, has "Cataclysm," "Wrath of the Lich King," "Burning Crusade," and the upcoming "Mists of Pandara" expansions giving it a lot more clout to stand upon.  SWTOR being a new game does not have this background, so it cannot obviously compete with the additional lettering WoW has build up over the years.  Only a future analysis of SWTOR expansions will be able to determine the longevity of the game.

     

    The only thing SWTOR offers is a unique perspective because it contains an unknown factor of punctuation, the ":" may be what everybody is looking for, so some will doubt it, some will love it, some will hate it.  We'll have to see if the added bling makes the game better or worse, or the same.

     

    /sarcasm off

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member
    I know what you mean OP. I actually lasted to the early 40s with my character in WOW before quiting do to it being so boring and monotonous. TOR is a completely different experiece from WOW. I have no idea how the endgame really is and neither does anyone else regardless of what they claim. But endgame doesn't matter if the leveling process sucks. Its quite ironic that the people who shout WOW clone also complain that they can't speed through quests like in WOW. This is a BIOWARE game and nothing like a BLIZZARD game. Period.

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • HairysunHairysun none, OHPosts: 1,060Member

    Originally posted by DexterMMO

    After actually playing the game the last couple weeks and not just being a spectator of speculation I find myself trying to understand this "Like WoW" thing. The highest I ever made it in WoW before I fell asleep out of boredom (This is true, I'm not just trashing) was an Orc to level 11. That's all I could take and this was when I tried to test the game post WotLK, I also bought the game at launch and made a human cleric named Jesus Chryst think I got that guy to 8-9. WoW was never for me obviously as I could never get into a grove of enjoyment even at the lower levels... shit bored me to tears.

     

    Now playing SW:Tor ... I sit through every story anticipating the next dialogue sequence, freely farm all mobs on the path to my quests, level multiple classes (I can never level a second class in other games, I make 1 and thats it) and as I play this game I have yet to see anything remotely similar to WoW outside of the basic things that are similar to all Theme Park MMO's

     

    So will someone please enlighten me how this game is degraded to be WoW with lightsabers or a WoW clone instead of SW:ToR. Please have actual experience in TOR and not just some troll because if theres something I'm missing I wanna know... I enjoy every aspect of this game and in WoW the only thing I enjoyed was how open the world is... everything else to me personally was a snooze fest.

     

    You answered your question in your post.  Your issues seem to be with calling SWTOR a WoW anything.  Would you feel better with it being called a "Rift Clone" or a "Lord of the Rings Online" clone?  I think this is where the claims are unfortunate facts.  SWOTR has lots of things that are very similar to ...... "PICK A THEME PARK MMO" .  Outside of story, it was never pushed as anything else.

     

    WoW being the 600 lb. gorilla in the room catches the top honor of everything being compared to it.  Make no mistake, I can't stand the game.  I have tried it out on several occasions and don't make it more than a week or two.  That however doesn't make me blind to the obvious.  WoW is the most popular MMO in the world and there are more similarities than difference with SWOTR and WoW.

     

    ~Hairysun

     

     

     

  • DMTalchemistDMTalchemist Toronto, ONPosts: 23Member

    The raiding formula is the same but swtor does it better.

    Quest based level progression.

    Teir set based gear.

    Badges but swtor has a better selection with better pricing.

    Combat mechanics are very similar but thats most mmos. (Wish they added a combat log)

    I've read they both use trinity core but that shouldn't be counted since I dont know.

    Dual faction.

    Similar PVP dynamic - battlezone / world pvp (People forgot that hellfire penninsula had the same world objective based pvp)

    Heavily instanced content.

    Similar mount system

    Similar crafting system.

    Similar economy.

     

    Maybe theres more, this is off the top of my head. However I commend the OP for not playing WoW. I wish this game had been my first AAA mmo title. The OP will have a great time, at least, for a while. I'd keep a copy of Skyrim close by for a more organic RPG feel, swtor is more like watching a movie then an rpg.

     

     

    "LOL"

  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member
    Most of that is true DMT, but comparing hellfire peninsula PvP to Illum or outlaws den isn't really accurate. Perhaps wintergrasp would be a more accurate comparison, but they are still quite different. Illum has no timer and is active 24/7, for example. This should make for quite a significant gameplay difference between the two.

    I would say wows objective based world PvP was terrible. Most people on my server didn't even participate because of faction imbalance. We will see if Illum can overcome that shortcoming or not I guess.

    Shadow's Hand Guild
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  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Somewhere in nowherePosts: 2,306Member Uncommon

    Although I didn't exactly have the same bad experience playing WoW, I don't think that TOR really resembles WoW that much either, apart from the superficial.

    Generally, questing and doing stuff out in the word feels different and not just because of story.

    PvE combat feels a bit more like CoH than WoW, even though not quite like that either. It's much quicker than WoW's in each case, sometimes that's a good thing, other times you feel like you're going through stuff too quickly imo.

    PvP feels more like WAR's than WoW, although the pace is faster.

     

    These experiences do come from playing a cover class and that system alone made things very much different.

     

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • hikaru77hikaru77 buenos airesPosts: 1,035Member Uncommon

    Is easy, Lots of people (well no, just the wowers), think that wow is the 1st MMO who has invented everything, But for the real world, before wow was, meridian 59, EQ, Daoc, Ultima etc, and guess what, people from all those MMOs was working in the development of swtor, so yes, the game have a lot in common with them, but we still have some ignorant people who really believe that tor is a copy and paste of WoW with lightsabers.  

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Is easy, Lots of people (well no, just the wowers), think that wow is the 1st MMO who has invented everything, But for the real world, before wow was, meridian 59, EQ, Daoc, Ultima etc, and guess what, people from all those MMOs was working in the development of swtor, so yes, the game have a lot in common with them, but we still have some ignorant people who really believe that tor is a copy and paste of WoW with lightsabers.  

    I haven't played WOW since TBC so it's been many years and even I can say in many ways it does feel like wow with lightsabers. It's more because yes its the same style game but even more because they really didn't try much new for the genre. Just adding a story base and voice acting doesn't change the fundamental gameplay elements that are for the most part all still there and the same as they have been for years. Is this bad? really depends on the person. To MMO vets yes it is a pretty big slap in the face that  the next big AAA release is pretty much more of the same. On the flip side new comers and single player gamers will probably eat this game up. I don't feel either side is wrong or ignorant but I do find it silly that people claim this game is light years ahead of any recent AAA title such as rift

     

    and yes obviously wow didn't invent the genre it has just become the best example of how to make a game cater to the masses and fine tune many of the issues those other games you mentioned had

  • ChicagoCubChicagoCub Chicago, ILPosts: 301Member

    Originally posted by hikaru77

    Is easy, Lots of people (well no, just the wowers), think that wow is the 1st MMO who has invented everything, But for the real world, before wow was, meridian 59, EQ, Daoc, Ultima etc, and guess what, people from all those MMOs was working in the development of swtor, so yes, the game have a lot in common with them, but we still have some ignorant people who really believe that tor is a copy and paste of WoW with lightsabers.  

    The question wasn't what WoW invented that SWTOR emulates.  It was how is SWTOR similar to WoW.  Who invented the similarities is irrelevant..

    They are both theme park quest stackers.  Both games have solo and group quests.  They both  have premade character creation templates (you just cycle through).  They both have two distinct factions.  They both have very distinct, very rigid, very role oriented char eacter classes.  Classes in both games are level based.  Both games require you to level up to get new abilities.  Both games require you to visit a trainer to get new abilities.  Both games have class specific abilities.  Both games have "hot key" based ablity execution.  Both games have similar user interfaces.  Both games have rested experience bonuses.  Both games require you manage two depletion bars (health and Mana/Energy/Force Points, etc).  Both games have a pet/companion system).  Both games allow for individual crafting with recipes obtained from a trainer and require resource gathering.  Both games have rigid level and class limited gear.  Both games have color coded gear depending on rarity.  Both games have personal "mounts".  Both games have public high speed travel.  Both games have skill trees.  Both games have battelground based PvP.  Both games have a separate advancement system, gear, and vendors for PvP.  Both games have friendly, neutral, and hostile mobs.  Both games have an aggression management system.  Both games have level related areas/zones.  Both games have banks, require inventory management, and allow for increasing the capacity of both.  Both games have guiilds.  Both games allow grouping and have limited party sizes.  Both games have public auction houses.  Both games have central hubs for player interaction. 

    This list is not complete but you get the point.  Pretending they are not very very similar is just absurd.    Some items on the list are good, some are abosulely essential, some are just lazy industry standards.  Also there a A LOT of things SWTOR improved on and a few more things SWTOR has that no other game does.  But that wasn't the question.

  • ComanComan Hattem, AKPosts: 2,026Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by osiriszoran

    MMOs are not indicative of their early levels bro. You wouldnt understand the comparison between the two without having experienced the end game content of WoW.

    Most new MMOs come with new car smell & eventually that will wear off.

    I for one am not playing a game for it's end-game. If it fun then great I could spend a few hours playing those things, but I am ok with the end-game simply being the end. I want what is before the end-game to have substance and to be fun. I am not planning on playing games like SWTOR for year to come, but maybe a few months, unless content is being pushed out faster and I REALLLY enjoy it.

     

  • DexterMMODexterMMO Houston, TXPosts: 484Member

    After all the replies I do have a better understanding of why it's called a WoW clone if I agree or not. Guess I just find it odd being called a WoW clone because it has similarities shared within all Theme Parks even those before WoW. Punctuation or not I prefer the game with the STR over the W²O. Gameplay wise I may never see them similar as I could never find anything or WoW that could hold me to end-game (Understatement?) but I guess it sucks A game being heralded as a clone of the King of the Mountain that legitimately stands on it's own feet in every aspect, better than Rift IMO, will have a negative shadow cast from it that automatically turns people off.

    Oh well. To each there own right, Thanks for the time and informative replies. First non-troll thread in the swtor section? Maybe.

    Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon

    re Coman.

    Thats fair enough, you know what you enjoy and wont hang around when it gets dull, I would do the same, but it is not what mmorgs are all about.    he best mmorgs are about communities that develop over a long period giving greater value beyond the basic content, and that hard to define living world feel, modern themepark like wow and SWTOR offer raiding and battle grounds beyond the first couple months which is what people are referring to.   

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • MystDrgonMystDrgon Edmond, OKPosts: 29Member

    gee, theme park, with world smaller than that of World of Warcraft.  Talent trees similar to WoW, combat like WoW, PvP areas much like wow., Questing on Rails just like WoW, crafting still not a major attribute of the game. Plays like a polished single player game in a mmo world.

    Now the positives, voice overs are nice break from reading NPC dribble.  The most exciting attribute to this game is the moral light vs dark choices.  And of course it is Star Wars.  Companions are interesting, but also detract from the MMO experience. The only grouping I experienced is the Flash Points, which were also nicely done.  

    So yeah, it not only is a WoW clone, but a clone of the majority of MMO's that preceded it.  The postive things in my humble opinion will not be enough to sustain this game for long.  The new wears off quickly.  Was it fun, yeah, was it kinda mindless, yeah. Was the voice acting good, definetly. Will it be fun 6 months from now, don't think so.  Is it enough to get my hard earned money, nope.

    I don't blame Bioware for taking this approach, afterall, they are using someone elses money, and need to be successful at launch.  However, just because it is Star Wars, or WoW with Lightsabers, or [name your game here] with rock, paper, siccisors clone means I can't spend my hard earned money on it. To Bioware's credit, they did produce a highly polished and ready for release game.

    Playing: Nothing (nothing worth playing)
    Favorite: SWG (pre NGE, CU)
    Played: WoW, Eve, DAoC, Warhamer, AoC, SWG, Earth & Beyond
    Hope: GW2 maybe

  • musicmannmusicmann port allen, LAPosts: 1,107Member

    What i can't figure out about all these TOR = WOW people. Some sit and say, it's the button smashing combat. I say, if you can sit and call TOR a WOW clone with a straight face and then on the other hand not call GW2  the same thing then you're just being a fanboy of that said game and can't admit that the game of your choice is no different.

    I've watch combat stuff of both of that game and all i see is the 1,1,1,2,2,1,3,11 button smashing. Oh, it's different because you can go and roll on the ground away from the action and then start the smashing again. Oh wait, it's that you can light a fire on the ground andthe  thief/wow hunter can set his arrows ablaze by shooting through it.

    Even AA with it's semi/quasi sandbox setup has button smashing combat. The only mmo that has come out in the last few yrs. that doesn't have that is DC online. The reason it is different is because it was intentionally made for pc and console players.

    End Game, TOR has, operations, heroic flashpoints, open world PVP, battleground PVP.

                      WOW has, Raids, dungeons, arena PVP, battleground PVP

                     GW2 has, Dungeons,  battleground PVP, ( i don't include dynamic events because you do them from day one.)

    All have button smashing combat.  GW2 just like WOW is set in a high fantasy setting on one made up planet with different zones.

    TOR is made up of 17 planets,with many zones, each with their own distict style and feeling. Instead of high fantasy TOR is a space opera that is unique compared to the dull and looming same old same old.

    So, just by listing a few different little things, i know there is more from each game, you can get a feel for how even though thse games are similar they still are different within the mmorpg genre.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by DexterMMO

    After all the replies I do have a better understanding of why it's called a WoW clone if I agree or not. Guess I just find it odd being called a WoW clone because it has similarities shared within all Theme Parks even those before WoW. Punctuation or not I prefer the game with the STR over the W²O. Gameplay wise I may never see them similar as I could never find anything or WoW that could hold me to end-game (Understatement?) but I guess it sucks A game being heralded as a clone of the King of the Mountain that legitimately stands on it's own feet in every aspect, better than Rift IMO, will have a negative shadow cast from it that automatically turns people off.

    Oh well. To each there own right, Thanks for the time and informative replies. First non-troll thread in the swtor section? Maybe.

    you could basically say people base wow as the standard for themepark MMOs and no reason they shouldn't. There is no doubt in its success. So you could say this is just another same ol same ol themepark MMO with lightsabers and dialog or say its wow with lightsabers and dialog meaning  pretty much the same thing. Just the fact people have been comparing games to wow for so long now I think it bothers people a lot. Not sure why but it does.

  • pmilespmiles Federal Way, WAPosts: 383Member

    Who cares if people sub for the game or not.  Did you get your $60 worth of fun out of the boxed game?  That's all that you are buying upfront.  Subscriptions are for upcoming content.  You can choose to wait for said content to actually be released and then sub, or you can blindly sub from day 1 and entertain yourself until the new content is released.  If you even entertain the idea of playing the game even for a moment, you are willing to sub it.  Because the truth is, if something better was out there RIGHT NOW, you'd be playing it, instead.

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