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It's Tabula Rasa all over again...

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Comments

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member

    Originally posted by sanosukex

     

    give me some examples of how alive this world is? Twizted26 gave some good examples above of the issues and its not even close to everything. The lack of real enviornemnts( day/night, weather, ect), the fact that creatures have been placed like statues in areas and do not even more. The feeling that nothing is really "going on" around you. Just cause the worlds use some recognizable buildings and locations from the lore its automatically alive? I really don't get that

    The thing about creatures not moving just isn't true.  Do NPCs who are manning fortifications decide to wander around them in circles instead of standing at their posts?  No.  Do animals out the wilderness areas walk around?  Yes.  Are there guards patrolling hallways inside buildings?  Yes.  In order to try to make some categorical statement that creatures don't move, someone has to have either not played the game, or be straight out lying.

    As for the day/night thing, a lot of people prefer not having a cycle.  BioWare games typically don't have such cycles, and are better for it, in my opinion.  If an area is going to be in nighttime mode, I want it designed for the night, not designed to work in both night and day.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    The story itself is immersive,  but take that in comparison to Mass Effect.  The worlds were much smaller thereby making the very small amounts of character in them seem like the world was - somewhat - immersive..... but not any more than SWTOR.  

     

    The problem with SWTOR is the worlds are so big.  Theres a lot of open space...    and the difference between this game and something like - say - Fallen Earth (which I find to be somewhat more immersive)  is that,  people have a preconceived notion of what a star wars world feels like.

     

    But SWG was much more open,  with far less activity.    I think the emptyness also gets exasperated by the slow movement in the early levels.     I personally feel like theres a lot more needless running on the starter planets then there needs to be... and while it makes you feel like the worlds are huge,  it also makes you feel like theres a lot of empty space too.

     

    Really though, its not something I can put my finger on.   The personal story is immersive,  but the world, progression, PvP, space combat and companions are all fun game systems,  but not really very immersive in my opinion.  That doesn't mean they aren't fun though.

    i can accept the fact areas are big so less can be going on thats not the point though. When nothing is going on anywhere really thats an issue. When npcs are just lifeless figures doing the same emote over and over. They could of taken a nod from there own games and added flags to your character that effects how entire cities react to you based on your actions. But for this to work more than just quest givers need life. You need guards doing more than standing like statues in set locations.  When well... the examples were given in the posts above so won't repeat them.

    Game in itself I find passable enough to warrant one playthrough but again i don't see myself wanting to experience the world multiple times with multiple characters. I'm hoping things are added to remedy this but I really don't know

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,916Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Twizted26

     

    The world is Lifeless and the Ai is terrible 

     

    apart from a few simulated battles happening in a few remote places throught the galaxy of this game everything just stands around and does nothing. 

     

    the battles are even dull .. and when a mob dies the oppossing factions npc still shoots the spot where it was standing. 

     

    when you fight  npcs they stand there and shoot at you , they don't move / run or flee / Find cover .. no they just stand there same for melee mobs mostly, add to it all the end game npcs feel just like the ones on the starter planet .. just higher level. 

    (Yellow) read the latest patch notes ...

    The rest:  has anyone ever stopped to think maybe this has something to do with tech, server structure/architecture and/or limitations devs face in this genre? You'd think they would, you know because every MMO is like that, just look at Old T in AOC, that guy is still in binds and having mud slung at his face after all these years...

    When making complaints and bemoaning games there has to be some context and perspective applied. To say one game fails because of this you have to say they all do, they all have the same problem, it's not just TOR. IF TORs world is lifeless so is every other MMO's. Yet most don't even have characters that come alive when you speak with them, so I'd say TOR has one-upped many in this department.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by helthros

     

    This whole "new and exciting" thing is something that people who have played this genre entirely too much are holding on to so desperately for.

    Did you ever think for a second that maybe the problem is YOU? Maybe you're burnt out? Maybe you need to do something else with your life for a while. Try it out - I guarantee you will come back to MMO's with a new perspective.

     

    Why do I know this? because I did it.

     

    I was burnt out from themeparks just like you, cursing developers as to why they couldn't come up with the 'new and exciting' thing that was going to entice me. I took a break from MMO's, playing EVE loosely - Almost 2  years later, I'm rejuvinated and ready for ToR.  Not because it's bringing anything crazy and new to the genre, that's unrealistic to EXPECT innovation at the turn of a dime.

     

    Really, look at FPS games - How many innovations are you seeing form game to game?

     

    tl:dr If you're sitting around waiting for innovation, you're in for a rude awakening - Either be the innovation or stfu. (And by be the innovation I don't mean be a whiny girl on some insignificant internet forums - I mean learning how to code and actually doing it).

    Its been about 6 months since I played an MMO which was rift. So can't really say I'm just jumping from one to another I have had a pretty good break. And I agree with FPS's I don't even play them anymore because they are all basically the same thing over and over.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by helthros

     Simply put - I'm playing a video game. I'm not looking for some alternate world to escape a sad reality. I log in to play a game - I don't log in to see if the weather is changing, some minor little animal is skipping across the desert, or the time of day is changing. Really, get a life dood.

    The world was alive to me because the Jedi temple looked fantastic. Doing the quests I felt like I was actually a jedi trainee. When I was doing the Sith lines, I found myself wrapped in the storylines and found myself wanting to branch out more into the world to see what the world has to hold.

     

    Keep in mind, a lot of these "hands on" experience from bitter fools is to the extent of like lvl 10, if even that. Think about your favorite MMO and how mindblowing it was at lvl 10.

    sadly rift was more exciting to level 10. In the first areas of rift there's actually a lot of stuff going on around you making the world feel more alive and in rift its not even a whole lot they did to create this effect. With 135 million budget is it really that hard of a concept to think people expect a little more life to the game?

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

     

    i can accept the fact areas are big so less can be going on thats not the point though. When nothing is going on anywhere really thats an issue. When npcs are just lifeless figures doing the same emote over and over. They could of taken a nod from there own games and added flags to your character that effects how entire cities react to you based on your actions. But for this to work more than just quest givers need life. You need guards doing more than standing like statues in set locations.  When well... the examples were given in the posts above so won't repeat them.

    Game in itself I find passable enough to warrant one playthrough but again i don't see myself wanting to experience the world multiple times with multiple characters. I'm hoping things are added to remedy this but I really don't know

    You are completely entitled to that opinion.   I do not think that, in the grand scheme of things, it will be a major issue.   Adding some pathing,  or some routine to NPCs is, afterall, just aesthetic.   So is day,  night,  weather....  and its all for the sake of immersion, but not for the sake of gameplay.

     

    If they add those things,  it won't improve the game, nor will it improve longevity.  Will you sub for 2 more months because theres a day/night cycle?  

     

    How about pathing...  if your character now gets acknowledged,  character or two?

     

    Immersion is fine... in games like Skyrim it helps immensely,  and is expected,  but for SWTOR,  the underlying gameplay and the additional story elements is really where you see a lot of enjoyment from players.  More people will reroll to see a new story then those that come back to see what night time looks like on tython.

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member

     


    It's Tabula Rasa all over again...

     

    Great! I loved that game.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Twizted26

     

    The world is Lifeless and the Ai is terrible 

     

    apart from a few simulated battles happening in a few remote places throught the galaxy of this game everything just stands around and does nothing. 

     

    the battles are even dull .. and when a mob dies the oppossing factions npc still shoots the spot where it was standing. 

     

    when you fight  npcs they stand there and shoot at you , they don't move / run or flee / Find cover .. no they just stand there same for melee mobs mostly, add to it all the end game npcs feel just like the ones on the starter planet .. just higher level. 

    (Yellow) read the latest patch notes ...

    The rest:  has anyone ever stopped to think maybe this has something to do with tech, server structure/architecture and/or limitations devs face in this genre? You'd think they would, you know because every MMO is like that, just look at Old T in AOC, that guy is still in binds and having mud slung at his face after all these years...

    When making complaints and bemoaning games there has to be some context and perspective applied. To say one game fails because of this you have to say they all do, they all have the same problem, it's not just TOR. IF TORs world is lifeless so is every other MMO's. Yet most don't even have characters that come alive when you speak with them, so I'd say TOR has one-upped many in this department.

     

    they DID add npcs will look for cover now which is huge step in the right direction. Main thing with other games you didn't have a class with a cover system so having no AI was pretty much accepted cause creatures would just auto attack. When you add in the cover system it just makes the zero AI stick out liek a sore thumb making it pretty awful. I have no real complains on the other classes combat since it's pretty much the same standard stuff we have had forever.

    But with the resources they had making this game a little more could have been done to spruce up with enviornments and world as a whole

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,916Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by sanosukex

     

    sadly rift was more exciting to level 10. In the first areas of rift there's actually a lot of stuff going on around you making the world feel more alive and in rift its not even a whole lot they did to create this effect. With 135 million budget is it really that hard of a concept to think people expect a little more life to the game?

    Sadly that's just your opinion, I personally found rift to be artificial feeling, where as I felt an instant connection to playing the BH storyline in TOR (the first i tried). I made it out of the tutorial in RIFT and that's it felt nothing but bored after. You see preferences make a big difference in how an opinion is formed, mine is in no way universal nor is yours.

    That said is it a hard concept to understand that many may feel TOR feels differently than you think it does?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • Twizted26Twizted26 ColoradoPosts: 107Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by helthros

    Originally posted by Twizted26


    Originally posted by helthros


    Originally posted by sanosukex


    Originally posted by helthros



     

    I've never been into story lines and much less quests. I found myself reading all of the quests/storylines in ToR - I have a blast questing, something I haven't had fun doing since Anarchy Online (not because it was great there, but because it was new to me).

     

    So simply put, it might be YOU that's causing the world to feel lifeless, maybe you have unreasonable expectations?

     

    I'll just simply say, no, you're wrong. I felt the world was a lot of fun for a themepark game.

    well the biggest complaint I see on these forums is the UI and the lifeless world so Im definatly not alone in this. There are pages of examples of this so I won't go over them here.

     

     

    How you can not feel a world where you're recognizing the planets, races, even some name droppings - is alive? How can you not get excited seeing your character as part of one of the best storeis of our time (well might be before your time depending on your age)?

     

    The only part of this game that I thought was cool was on Taris where you get to investigate the Endar spire from KotR or on Dromund Kaas when you get story bits from Revans fate .. everything else was just a familiar named lifeless planet in middle of a galaxy far far away. I can't think of anything else I did on any planet that was worth mentioning. 

     

    And the problem here can't possibly be you right? Maybe you just need to stop playing MMOs for a little. Eat prime rib every day for X amount of time, and eventually that prime rib won't be quite so luxurious will it? Try a different dish instead of being some self-centered clown who wants the dish reinvented for them.

    Lol .. this was the first game I have played apart from the occasional battlefield match in well over a year.  I highly doubt the problem is related to me in any way when there are plenty of people that feel the same way about the game, During the beta ingame chat was exploading with people complaining about x and y ... beta forums were also pages upon pages of people complaining and suggestions for fixes to the exact complaints people are posting here. 

    I'm not telling people not to buy it  , I'm simply stating what I experienced during the months of the closed beta. I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings as you are obviously looking forward to this game as many others are ( as I was also ) but that doesn't change the fact that this game is way over hyped and will most likely die off quick. thats just how it is. 

    As it stands this game is basically KotR 3 with a few online features .. you'll see soon enough. 

  • olepiolepi Austin, TXPosts: 1,154Member Uncommon

    I enjoyed playing the beta, but stopped, since I don't want to ruin the story. I am approaching SWTOR as a single-player RPG, which is BioWare's strong point. Any MMO activities will be icing on the cake.

    I personally like MMO's with persistent virtual worlds that you can live in and play a role in. That is not BioWare's strong point, and not what the game seems like to me.

    ------------
    RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  • Twizted26Twizted26 ColoradoPosts: 107Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

     


    It's Tabula Rasa all over again...

     

    Great! I loved that game.

    I actually did too , but thats not what he was referring to as both games have a completely diffent feel to them. 

    he was referring to Tabula Rasa as the Rise and fall of an mmo. 

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Twizted26

     

    Lol .. this was the first game I have played apart from the occasional battlefield match in well over a year.  I highly doubt the problem is related to me in any way when there are plenty of people that feel the same way about the game, During the beta ingame chat was exploading with people complaining about x and y ... beta forums were also pages upon pages of people complaining and suggestions for fixes to the exact complaints people are posting here. 

    I'm not telling people not to buy it  , I'm simply stating what I experienced during the months of the closed beta. I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings as you are obviously looking forward to this game as many others are ( as I was also ) but that doesn't change the fact that this game is way over hyped and will most likely die off quick. thats just how it is. 

    As it stands this game is basically KotR 3 with a few online features .. you'll see soon enough. 

    Thats what beta forums are for,  fixes and suggestions,  but if you were in the closed beta you would also take note of the overwhelming positive opinion given when BioWare asked for focus testing.   Overall negative opinions were very few and far between.

     

    Seeing as I'm still in beta,  the forums are still pretty light on "critical" posts in comparison to positive ones.   

     

     

     

    Directly from the BETA forums.. RIGHT... NOW.. :)

     

     







































































    View Poll Results: How well do you like SWTOR? Rate from 1-10

    1 (horrible)


    29

    0.69%

    2


    12

    0.29%

    3


    29

    0.69%

    4


    44

    1.05%

    5 (average)


    133

    3.16%

    6


    122

    2.90%

    7


    338

    8.04%

    8


    1,036

    24.65%

    9


    941

    22.39%

    10 (excelent)


    1,519

    36.14%

    Voters: 4203. You have already voted on this poll

     

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Distopia

    That said is it a hard concept to understand that many may feel TOR feels differently than you think it does?

    it IS actually and mainly the fact I'm a HUGE star wars fan I love Star Wars through and through. I have read many many star wars books I have the huge star wars encylopedia book(thing is massive if you haven't seen one). I think a game like this deserves the player to immerse themself in the story(since the story is obviously were MOST of the games money went) and in the world and from all the examples already posted I feel they are failing in that regard

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Thats what beta forums are for,  fixes and suggestions,  but if you were in the closed beta you would also take note of the overwhelming positive opinion given when BioWare asked for focus testing.   Overall negative opinions were very few and far between.

     

    Seeing as I'm still in beta,  the forums are still pretty light on "critical" posts in comparison to positive ones.   

    Directly from the BETA forums.. RIGHT... NOW.. :)

     







































































    View Poll Results: How well do you like SWTOR? Rate from 1-10

    1 (horrible)


    29

    0.69%

    2


    12

    0.29%

    3


    29

    0.69%

    4


    44

    1.05%

    5 (average)


    133

    3.16%

    6


    122

    2.90%

    7


    338

    8.04%

    8


    1,036

    24.65%

    9


    941

    22.39%

    10 (excelent)


    1,519

    36.14%

    Voters: 4203. You have already voted on this poll

     

    4203 people out of the millions said to play is hardly an indication of how the masses will view this game come release and months after. We shall see though

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,916Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by Distopia



    That said is it a hard concept to understand that many may feel TOR feels differently than you think it does?

    it IS actually and mainly the fact I'm a HUGE star wars fan I love Star Wars through and through. I have read many many star wars books I have the huge star wars encylopedia book(thing is massive if you haven't seen one). I think a game like this deserves the player to immerse themself in the story(since the story is obviously were MOST of the games money went) and in the world and from all the examples already posted I feel they are failing in that regard

    Your opening sentence could apply to me as well I also had the old encyclopedia, (when I was like 20, 13 years ago) etc..

    I was immersed in the story and world. Loved seeing references to things I read in comics (tales of the jedi), seeing places I never have brought to life etc.. preferences and opinions differ.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by maskedweasel



    Thats what beta forums are for,  fixes and suggestions,  but if you were in the closed beta you would also take note of the overwhelming positive opinion given when BioWare asked for focus testing.   Overall negative opinions were very few and far between.

     

    Seeing as I'm still in beta,  the forums are still pretty light on "critical" posts in comparison to positive ones.   

    Directly from the BETA forums.. RIGHT... NOW.. :)

     







































































    View Poll Results: How well do you like SWTOR? Rate from 1-10

    1 (horrible)


    29

    0.69%

    2


    12

    0.29%

    3


    29

    0.69%

    4


    44

    1.05%

    5 (average)


    133

    3.16%

    6


    122

    2.90%

    7


    338

    8.04%

    8


    1,036

    24.65%

    9


    941

    22.39%

    10 (excelent)


    1,519

    36.14%

    Voters: 4203. You have already voted on this poll

     

    4203 people out of the millions said to play is hardly an indication of how the masses will view this game come release and months after. We shall see though

    This is not the weekend beta.. this is the CBT -- meaning players that played MORE than just 1 weekend.. this is daily play.

     

    (they may pool the weekenders now.. really can't recall)

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member

    Originally posted by Twizted26

    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

     


    It's Tabula Rasa all over again...

     

    Great! I loved that game.

    I actually did too , but thats not what he was referring to as both games have a completely diffent feel to them. 

    he was referring to Tabula Rasa as the Rise and fall of an mmo. 

    I know, But I have to say this about Tabula Rasa. I waited fo a long time for the game. I must have miss heard when it was coming out because I went to game stop about a week or so early. I asked if they had "Tabula Rasa" and they had no Idea what I was talking about.

    I knew right then that Tabula Rasa might be in trouble, if it wasn't on the radar of the people working for Game stop. Seriously they had never heard of the game and it was a week before it was to be released.

    I don't think TOR suffers from that problem.

     

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    This is not the weekend beta.. this is the CBT -- meaning players that played MORE than just 1 weekend.. this is daily play.

     

    (they may pool the weekenders now.. really can't recall)

    yet again proves what I have been trying to say people have been way to lenient on this game during testing and not enough critical feedback.. No way in hell should this game be getting that many 10/10s

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    yet again proves what I have been trying to say people have been way to lenient on this game during testing and not enough critical feedback.. No way in hell should this game be getting that many 10/10s

    No game should ever get a 10, because no game is perfect.  That being said, giving a game a high score doesn't mean somebody is being "too lenient," it just means the game gave them what they were looking for.  Not every player prioritizes the same elements.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by maskedweasel



    This is not the weekend beta.. this is the CBT -- meaning players that played MORE than just 1 weekend.. this is daily play.

     

    (they may pool the weekenders now.. really can't recall)

    yet again proves what I have been trying to say people have been way to lenient on this game during testing and not enough critical feedback.. No way in hell should this game be getting that many 10/10s

    lol,  but thats the thing,  you don't control what other people rate or how other people feel!    If people feel that way,  then maybe you should just try to understand that your feelings are not the majority here.

     

    I rated the game an 8 btw.    That being said,  maybe I'm not in the majority either.  All you can do is decide for yourself.. and stop trying to decide for other people - you only get 1 vote in that poll.... and that only speaks for you. 

     

    Just because you don't like their choices doesn't mean you can change them.  image

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by maskedweasel



    This is not the weekend beta.. this is the CBT -- meaning players that played MORE than just 1 weekend.. this is daily play.

     

    (they may pool the weekenders now.. really can't recall)

    yet again proves what I have been trying to say people have been way to lenient on this game during testing and not enough critical feedback.. No way in hell should this game be getting that many 10/10s

    I read posts saying TOR is going to suck because the majority of the testers think it sucks. Then we get a poll that shows that isn't true, now TOR is going to suck because the majority of the testers enjoy the game. Oh well, I guess you just can't win.

     

  • AzariaAzaria Murfreesboro, TNPosts: 318Member

    The only problem with that poll is it's not independent, its from the TOR website and part of their offiicial forums. The TOR forums have long since been dominated by pro star wars fans and Themepark lovers for well over a year now. I dont see how they wouldn't all like the game or just say they liked the game even if they didn't play it.  I mean about 4000 people probably makes up a relativly small percentage of forum goers. I can make a poll or you can make a poll and if everyone on this site likes it getting 4000 votes up or down isn't all that hard.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by maskedweasel



    This is not the weekend beta.. this is the CBT -- meaning players that played MORE than just 1 weekend.. this is daily play.

     

    (they may pool the weekenders now.. really can't recall)

    yet again proves what I have been trying to say people have been way to lenient on this game during testing and not enough critical feedback.. No way in hell should this game be getting that many 10/10s

    Calm down. You just need to step away I think. Quite simply, you are not impressed with the game so you blame everyone else for not being as hard on it as you. It's OK to not like it. It's also ok to like it.

     

    Hate to wade into this one, but remember all the Star Trek fans up in arms because STO wasn't what they wanted? In that case, they were probably the majority and STO didn't do as good as it should have. I think here you are in the minority.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    lol,  but thats the thing,  you don't control what other people rate or how other people feel!    If people feel that way,  then maybe you should just try to understand that your feelings are not the majority here.

     

    I rated the game an 8 btw.    That being said,  maybe I'm not in the majority either.  All you can do is decide for yourself.. and stop trying to decide for other people - you only get 1 vote in that poll.... and that only speaks for you. 

     

    Just because you don't like their choices doesn't mean you can change them.  image

    I don't control what other people think but giving enough examples and making a good case of things that really need to get fixed will help the longevity of this game and is good for the community and will help bioware shape the game into something more long term.  Also I'm not so self conceited I feel my opinions should be viewed and agreed upon by everyone but that's what forums are for. For discussion

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