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It's Tabula Rasa all over again...

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  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Do MMORPGs have to have long term success to be enjoyable?

     

     

    Ooooohhhh. That's gonna leave a mark.

     

     

    I say no.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Narcin1

    How is this thread still alive? Tabula rasa was oh my god horrible from the start. I logged about 10-15 hours in the beta stress test weekend and am having withdrawls from not being able to play. Horrible analogy, OP. Even though it seems you put some thought in it. I am sorry, but I see none of Tabula Rasa in TOR. I think your reasoning has been let loose. Please reclaim it. 

     

    I am pretty sure you are just a really good troll, OP. So, grats.

    guess people really don't read a lot of responses so ill just quote myself from a page back

    was NOT trying to say the game itself was similar aside from the sci-fi elements and the fact it was trying to do something somewhat new for the genre and some of the comments I saw in beta reviews made similar points. It was the hype of a big name and the dissapointment of the end result.

  • popinjaypopinjay Northeast, PAPosts: 6,539Member


    Originally posted by Narcin1
    How is this thread still alive?
    I think people like humoring him at this point. He's trying really hard to present a cogent case for not playing TOR, so we are eventually hoping he can come up with better ammunition in this thread before the game launches in four weeks (or sooner for us Headstarters :) )
  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by popinjay

     




    Originally posted by Narcin1

    How is this thread still alive?

     

     

     





    I think people like humoring him at this point. He's trying really hard to present a cogent case for not playing TOR, so we are eventually hoping he can come up with better ammunition in this thread before the game launches in four weeks (or sooner for us Headstarters :) )

     

    who said anything about NOT playing? I have a pre-order and have kept it and I will be playing at launch. Where in anything I said did a say I won't be playing? really think 90% of you are missing my point..

  • popinjaypopinjay Northeast, PAPosts: 6,539Member


    Originally posted by sanosukex

    the voice over dialog choices are new for an MMO but when you play it feels the same as all the other bioware games. Which isn't bad by any means but its nothing really new in a sense.

    Assuming everyone hasn't played or experienced KOTOR, or even remember how it went after all these years, it still pretty new in a mmo sense. Pretty sure that's the point overall.. the genre needs some shakeup and different questing mechanics which many mmo players have been screaming for and this provides that.


    And btw.. since TOR is an mmo... there ya go. :)

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog SPosts: 1,125Member Uncommon

    I said this before and gonna repeat, swtor is a nice single player game, after you finish it you will not much else to do,

    pvp is a joke, the arenas is somewhere fun ,less the hut ball thing, bugs a lot, game is also too damn easy, doing some heroics alone are not nice, also all the other group pretty much you can do it alone, lack of balance on the classes, maybe on cap lvl it fixes itself but, most of time is skill spam.

     

    the game will sell? yes it will, but only because its a SW, bioware lose a lot of fans after dragon age 2 and ME 2, killing they own ip to cather more player and then making a game who was less fun then the original.

     

    short history, the gmae will sell till half the gamers there hit lvl cap then they will start to leave,

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
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  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member

    Originally posted by alkarionlog

    the game will sell? yes it will, but only because its a SW, bioware lose a lot of fans after dragon age 2 and ME 2, killing they own ip to cather more player and then making a game who was less fun then the original.

    Lol.  There were at least as many people who preferred ME2 to ME1 as there were who preferred ME1.  Including almost all of the critics.  Will people ever stop taking their personal opinions and trying to present them as indicative of some massive trend?

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  • Narcin1Narcin1 birmingham, ALPosts: 145Member

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by Narcin1

    How is this thread still alive? Tabula rasa was oh my god horrible from the start. I logged about 10-15 hours in the beta stress test weekend and am having withdrawls from not being able to play. Horrible analogy, OP. Even though it seems you put some thought in it. I am sorry, but I see none of Tabula Rasa in TOR. I think your reasoning has been let loose. Please reclaim it. 

     

    I am pretty sure you are just a really good troll, OP. So, grats.

    guess people really don't read a lot of responses so ill just quote myself from a page back

    was NOT trying to say the game itself was similar aside from the sci-fi elements and the fact it was trying to do something somewhat new for the genre and some of the comments I saw in beta reviews made similar points. It was the hype of a big name and the dissapointment of the end result.

    I am sorry, I should have been a little more clear in my post let me correct my statement: "but I see none of Tabula Rasa['s production] in TOR['s production].  Essentially, I do not think the two PRODUCTIONS are comparable. Sorry for the miscommunication.

    Point is- I think your post is a bunch of B.S.  Reminds me of something a friend of mine would try to say.  He tries to give some evidence of a point that he is trying to make, but he never really gives enough-because he doesn't have enough evidence...ever. His famous arguement is that Batman can beat anyone if given the time to prepare. Do not let that be you. Just quit while you are ahead.

    Argh

  • popinjaypopinjay Northeast, PAPosts: 6,539Member


    Originally posted by sanosukex

    who said anything about NOT playing?
    I have a pre-order and have kept it and I will be playing at launch. Where in anything I said did a say I won't be playing? really think 90% of you are missing my point..

    That's what I'd like to know.. who said anything about you "NOT" playing? I didn't say you aren't playing it, lol.


    I said you were trying to make the case for NOT playing it. This happens all the time on forums and you even admitted as much:




    "It's my OPINION if enuogh people don't start giving some good critical feedback not enough changes to the game are going to be made and the game will tank and this really is NOT what i want.."


    You want someone to ease your mind that it won't be like Tabula Rasa. If you cannot read what professional analsysts ALL say about TOR likely being very profitable, tons of posts where people say they love the game, and not playing it yourself.. no one can POSSIBLY give you any more reasons four weeks out.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by popinjay

     




    Originally posted by sanosukex



    the voice over dialog choices are new for an MMO but when you play it feels the same as all the other bioware games. Which isn't bad by any means but its nothing really new in a sense.

     

     



    Assuming everyone hasn't played or experienced KOTOR, or even remember how it went after all these years, it still pretty new in a mmo sense. Pretty sure that's the point overall.. the genre needs some shakeup and different questing mechanics which many mmo players have been screaming for and this provides that.

     

     



    And btw.. since TOR is an mmo... there ya go. :)

    not even just kotor you got mass effect and dragon age which im sure pretty much everyone who will be playing this has played one of these so in a sense. I would say if they including all the funadmental mmo elements that have been in most AAA releases on top of the dialog stuff a lot of people wouldn't have much to complain about(yes I know people would) The game from what I played and coming from countless MMOs over the years feels like that spent almost all there energy in the dialog aspects and the rest was rushed and not implemented very well for a late 2012 release.

  • Narcin1Narcin1 birmingham, ALPosts: 145Member

    Originally posted by alkarionlog

    I said this before and gonna repeat, swtor is a nice single player game, after you finish it you will not much else to do,

    pvp is a joke, the arenas is somewhere fun ,less the hut ball thing, bugs a lot, game is also too damn easy, doing some heroics alone are not nice, also all the other group pretty much you can do it alone, lack of balance on the classes, maybe on cap lvl it fixes itself but, most of time is skill spam.

     

    the game will sell? yes it will, but only because its a SW, bioware lose a lot of fans after dragon age 2 and ME 2, killing they own ip to cather more player and then making a game who was less fun then the original.

     

    short history, the gmae will sell till half the gamers there hit lvl cap then they will start to leave,

    I have to go, but there is so much wrong to what you have said in this post. Please reconsider this. Also, please for the love of god learn to type.  It is almost like you are speaking in code.

    Argh

  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member

    Originally posted by alkarionlog

    I said this before and gonna repeat, swtor is a nice single player game, after you finish it you will not much else to do,

    At this point if anyone says SWTOR is a single player game they shouldn't be taken seriously.

    Bonus xp, social points, better drops if you are in group, every planet has 2 to 3 heroic zones, good luck soloing it with your companion at appropriate levels. these zones often holds rare mats and datacrons.

    You think you can solo FFA PVP zones? be my guest.

    Then we have champion and elite bosses roming the planets and some can be spawned only by killign linked mobs. i tried solo them with my companion and died pretty quick. And they always drop nice mods.

    Flashpoints, operations and heroics... no you can not solo them unless you outlevel them.

    All personal stories can be done in groups. One has to change settings in preference to allow other classes to join you

    pvp is a joke, the arenas is somewhere fun ,less the hut ball thing, bugs a lot, game is also too damn easy, doing some heroics alone are not nice, also all the other group pretty much you can do it alone, lack of balance on the classes, maybe on cap lvl it fixes itself but, most of time is skill spam.

    There is  instanced PVP  and there is also FFA PVP zone. That is where you will see most of the PVP. Other than heroics all other group activity can be soloed? i bet you can not even solo the heroic zones on any planet.

     

    the game will sell? yes it will, but only because its a SW, bioware lose a lot of fans after dragon age 2 and ME 2, killing they own ip to cather more player and then making a game who was less fun then the original.

     

    short history, the gmae will sell till half the gamers there hit lvl cap then they will start to leave,

    So like i said. Swtor is not a single player game not even close.Just that bioware is not forcing you to group. But benfits are there is you chose to.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    A huge name creates a MMO.. has a vision to make something new. Beta gets pretty good marks, Lord British supporters flock to the game calling it the next big MMO with so many new and exciting ideas. Game is released and it flops. Now the fact that this is in the Star Wars Universe automatically warrants a few million in sales look how much Episode I made in the theaters(really need to say more?) I'm sad to admit I will play cause it's good enough to play but just because it's star wars. If this was another no-name world game it would tank just like tabula rasa. Read some beta reviews from Tabula

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/gameId/150/setView/features/loadFeature/1459

    http://www.computerandvideogames.com/176126/reviews/tabula-rasa-review/

    http://internetgames.about.com/od/mmorpgs/a/tabularasabeta.htm

     

    a lot of similar points made in these previews that I see in ones for this game..

     

    now before everyone gets all bent out of shape I do wish this game to be a success but I feel bioware needs to pick up the pace and add a ton of stuff before it feels like a MMO of even this generation let alone next....

     

    It's my OPINION if enuogh people don't start giving some good critical feedback not enough changes to the game are going to be made and the game will tank and this really is NOT what i want

    Let's see if I can jump in here with an addition to your points.

    1. Huge name: Lord British -  Bioware - Blizzard

    2. Has a vision to make something new: Lord British - Bioware(?) - Blizzard(?)

    3. Beta with good marks: Lord British - Bioware - Blizzard

    4. Supporters flock to it: Lord British - Bioware - Blizzard

    5. Game flops: Lord British - ? - Nope

     

    Your OPINION at the end is what you hung your whole argument on. That you don't agree with the direction the game is headed, and people aren't giving enough critical feedback to change the game to your liking, therefore it will be a flop like Tabula Rasa.

     

    Dude, I'm glad that you are going to keep your pre-order and play and see how things go. That shows that you have some objectivity, but because 1+1+1+1 = 2 for TR, doesn't mean it will for TOR.

     

     

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Narcin1

    Originally posted by sanosukex


    Originally posted by Narcin1

    How is this thread still alive? Tabula rasa was oh my god horrible from the start. I logged about 10-15 hours in the beta stress test weekend and am having withdrawls from not being able to play. Horrible analogy, OP. Even though it seems you put some thought in it. I am sorry, but I see none of Tabula Rasa in TOR. I think your reasoning has been let loose. Please reclaim it. 

     

    I am pretty sure you are just a really good troll, OP. So, grats.

    guess people really don't read a lot of responses so ill just quote myself from a page back

    was NOT trying to say the game itself was similar aside from the sci-fi elements and the fact it was trying to do something somewhat new for the genre and some of the comments I saw in beta reviews made similar points. It was the hype of a big name and the dissapointment of the end result.

    I am sorry, I should have been a little more clear in my post let me correct my statement: "but I see none of Tabula Rasa['s production] in TOR['s production].  Essentially, I do not think the two PRODUCTIONS are comparable. Sorry for the miscommunication.

     

    if you don't see how they are not comparable you haven't been playing online games that long Lord British was hailed as a god in the industry. Star Wars obviously is more known around the world than ultima but that doesn't make the comparison invalid.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    Let's see if I can jump in here with an addition to your points.

    1. Huge name: Lord British -  Bioware - Blizzard

    2. Has a vision to make something new: Lord British - Bioware(?) - Blizzard(?)

    3. Beta with good marks: Lord British - Bioware - Blizzard

    4. Supporters flock to it: Lord British - Bioware - Blizzard

    5. Game flops: Lord British - ? - Nope

     

    Your OPINION at the end is what you hung your whole argument on. That you don't agree with the direction the game is headed, and people aren't giving enough critical feedback to change the game to your liking, therefore it will be a flop like Tabula Rasa.

     

    Dude, I'm glad that you are going to keep your pre-order and play and see how things go. That shows that you have some objectivity, but because 1+1+1+1 = 2 for TR, doesn't mean it will for TOR.

     

     

    BIG difference WOW came out when the genre was pretty new. There was not a sea on MMO's out there. People were not burnt out on the same old thing year after year. So saying just cause blizzard was a success doesn't really mean anything in this case.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    So saying just cause blizzard was a success doesn't really mean anything in this case.

    I agree with that statement, but saying TR flopped so TOR will too is better?

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    I agree with that statement, but saying TR flopped so TOR will too is better?

    never said that

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    BIG difference WOW came out when the genre was pretty new. There was not a sea on MMO's out there. People were not burnt out on the same old thing year after year.

    Now people ARE burnt out on the same old thing year after year, and the genre is stagnant so it's the perfect time for a game like TOR to come out because it is a lot different then the same old same olds.

    Besides when you say "people" are you refering to the masses?

    Because the masses still very much enjoy WoW and games like it.

    This website is 1% of 1% of the larger MMO community, never forget that.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,249Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    I really fear the day a game dev studio doesn't trust their employees and bases every decison 100% on feedback from their player base.

    Pro tip - most feedback your average player gives is total and complete crap.

    Yep.  Though occasionally somebody brings something up and it's like, "well, geez!  That's a no brainer!".

    My team develops financial software, and we frequently host user group meetings.  While there's often some good feedback(could you put a lock on Vendor field so we don't have to keep entering them over and over), there's also those morons who want changes that completely go against the purpose and workflow of whole screens and processes.

    Originally In TOR, the Sprint power had to be reactivated manually when you left combat.  I was the one(or one of the ones) who suggested that the Sprint power reactivate automatically after combat.  Whether it was from my suggestion, or someone else's earlier in closed beta, or perhaps it was their plan all along, they changed it in the next build.

    So i think they DO listen.  but they AREN'T going to change a fundamental aspect of the game based on forum feedback. 

    So folks shouldn't expect them to listen if they pound the forums demanding PvP be FFA full loot.

    Or even the guy in there now suggesting that the Origin and Starter worlds be open for PvP.  It's not gonna freakin' happen... and folks should can the bellyaching when it doesn't.

     

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXPosts: 7,277Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by Narcin1


    Originally posted by sanosukex


    Originally posted by Narcin1

    How is this thread still alive? Tabula rasa was oh my god horrible from the start. I logged about 10-15 hours in the beta stress test weekend and am having withdrawls from not being able to play. Horrible analogy, OP. Even though it seems you put some thought in it. I am sorry, but I see none of Tabula Rasa in TOR. I think your reasoning has been let loose. Please reclaim it. 

     

    I am pretty sure you are just a really good troll, OP. So, grats.

    guess people really don't read a lot of responses so ill just quote myself from a page back

    was NOT trying to say the game itself was similar aside from the sci-fi elements and the fact it was trying to do something somewhat new for the genre and some of the comments I saw in beta reviews made similar points. It was the hype of a big name and the dissapointment of the end result.

    I am sorry, I should have been a little more clear in my post let me correct my statement: "but I see none of Tabula Rasa['s production] in TOR['s production].  Essentially, I do not think the two PRODUCTIONS are comparable. Sorry for the miscommunication.

     

    if you don't see how they are not comparable you haven't been playing online games that long Lord British was hailed as a god in the industry. Star Wars obviously is more known around the world than ultima but that doesn't make the comparison invalid.

    It *kind of* doesn't.

     

    Major differences in production:



    • BioWare has 2 Established IPs.  Its piggybacking on the (already successful) Knights of the Old Republic games,  which benefits from being a Star Wars product.


     


    • Richard Garriott was well known in the MMO community,  but ultima never had the following KOTOR did.


     


    • BioWare comes with a bult in fanbase of more than 3 million PC players.


     


    • NCSoft cut Tabula Rasa because it wasn't profitable nor did they see it being profitable in the future.  Analysts already predict that SWTOR will make its development costs back and make a profit on box sales alone.


     


    • Tabula Rasa went through a long period of overhauled development,  star wars has been building on their standard gameplay without major overhauls to any of the systems thereby making the game more stable and less bugridden due to prolonged testing.


     


     


    These are some points,  but also,  the genre is different now,  SWTOR COULD go F2P if they had to,  so that EA could make their costs back... though it would take a substantial overhaul,   and that would be a worst case scenario that we won't see happening due to forseeable profitability within the launch month.


     


     


     


     


     


     

     

     

    "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


    image

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by sanosukex



    BIG difference WOW came out when the genre was pretty new. There was not a sea on MMO's out there. People were not burnt out on the same old thing year after year.

    Now people ARE burnt out on the same old thing year after year, and the genre is stagnant so it's the perfect time for a game like TOR to come out because it is a lot different then the same old same olds.

    Besides when you say "people" are you refering to the masses?

    Because the masses still very much enjoy WoW and games like it.

    This website is 1% of 1% of the larger MMO community, never forget that.

    I guess i could of worded that better. People(you can take "people" however you wish) are burnt out of the wow clones getting released year after year. Which should be evident on how many recent releases have sort of fell off the radar shortly after release. Rift tried to add some new stuff with rifts and zones invasions and the world events but in the end its more of the same. Bioware is trying to come out with something new and exciting with the story elements but after you get through all that its still in the end more of the same.

  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx North York, ONPosts: 2,360Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by Krytycal

    I beta tested Tabula Rasa, it was terrible from the start. SWTOR felt nothing like it.

    The feeling i get is more like the feeling of my first 20 levels in the beta of AoC... Or the beta of WoW.

     

    Good thing everyone bailed on WoW during its beta test eh... i mean we all know how that turned out....

    The difference between this game and Tabula rasa is, Bioware/EA have the resources to make this game succeed. And this game is nowhere near Tabula rasa, the mere comparrision is offensive. The only glaring issue with the game is the lack of character customization, all the core elements are there, the UI thing is not gamebreaking especially since they said they will be allowing player mods post launch.

    The people on these forums... seem to go out of their WoW spread negativity about thsi game, its as though they hope it fails.

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  • BergirBergir Toronto, ONPosts: 299Member

    "It's all over again"



    How many times have you heard this about swtor "But, IT'S a REALLY GOOD GAME"?



    I hear it all the time and i completely agree and is why I'm buying it for my kids. It's probably is a really good game, but it's not a really good mmo. Thinking about it i rarely hear "But, IT'S a REALLY GOOD MMO."



    Already reading posts on forums that people don't plan to stick around past 3 months anyway, what kind of an mmo is that?

  • Bruise187Bruise187 Corning, ARPosts: 339Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    This is either a troll thread or a paranoia thread.  I tested both games, they are galaxies apart.  Tabula Rasa was a half-finished mess, and that is being generous.  TOR is a complete, polished product.  It is just designed in a way that doesn't appeal to all possible audiences, and was never intended to.

    Realy your kidding me? They said and copied everything from wow in the hopes of appealing to all audiences. dumbed down easy optiomnal pvp. pvp zones. everything they have done is to get as many subs as possible. If the game is good ill play, but not because some fan boys say its the awesomestest o0 thing. I call BS when they say that if you dont want  or like story the game is not for you. you can skip all that if you want. now how much it takes or how long does it take to get to the cap if you skip all the 5 or 10 min cut scenes is what i would like to know.

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  • WhitebeardsWhitebeards TokyoPosts: 778Member

    Originally posted by rt33

    "It's all over again"



    How many times have you heard this about swtor "But, IT'S a REALLY GOOD GAME"?



    I hear it all the time and i completely agree and is why I'm buying it for my kids. It's probably is a really good game, but it's not a really good mmo. Thinking about it i rarely hear "But, IT'S a REALLY GOOD MMO."



    Already reading posts on forums that people don't plan to stick around past 3 months anyway, what kind of an mmo is that?

    And who says one has to play MMO for more than 3 months or 6 months? people come and go all the time. if i had these many choices back in days of EQ you think i would play EQ for one year non stop? nope.

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