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Fallen Earth: Front-Runner for the Sandbox Crown

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  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,193Member Uncommon

    Well to be a sandbox you can't have a class/level system.  That is basically where FE fails the sandbox test.

    So Eve has nothing to worry about from FE because of that.  

    FE's problem as so many of you have pointed out, it really has no end game at all.

  • vinillavinilla PernikPosts: 21Member

    "image Combat sucks the big one"

    Totally disagree! What in the combat system suxx exactly? And plz show me a game with better combat system (no, mark the target and push 1,2,3,4 doesn't count).

  • mymmomymmo StockholmPosts: 300Member

    Combat system is fun. The graphic thingy gets better when you leave S1

    Corsair 700D, EVGA X58 3x SLI classified, i7 950@4,2ghz,12gb ram@2ghz, 680@1255mhz/6625mhz, Xonar essence, 2x80gb intel g2, 1x120gb intel g2, 5tb Western Digital black, Seasonic 1k platinum, EK-CoolStream (140), EK-CoolStream (360), EK Waterblocks EVGA X58 Classified Acetal, EK Water Blocks EK-RAM Dominator X6, Aquastream XT ultra,Aquacomputre Aquadrive x4, 3xNexus Real Silent 120mm, SyncMaster 305Tplus

  • majimaji ColognePosts: 2,005Member Uncommon

    Combat system sucks? It's better than any theme park system, where you hit 1, 1, 1, 2,  over and over, while watching TV at the same time because you don't even have to aim.

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by remyburke

    Ya, the term "sandbox" is pretty subjective. I've always enjoyed FE, but to me, it's no sandbox. A game like Wurm Online is what I define to be a sandbox game. FE is more an open world themepark, because areas essentially have level requirements.

    No it's not. 

    The only thing subjective is what people 'consider' a sandbox; their opinions.  Most of the people here have some strange idea that a sandbox means no developer created content, the ability to alter the world, and only player created content. 

    If it has quests people think it's not a sandbox, that's wrong.

    If it's not ffa pvp people think its not a sandbox, that's wrong.

    If it doesn't have territory control people think it's not a sandbox, that's wrong.

     

    The author told everyone in the article exactly what a sandbox is.  Open-ended, non-linear, free-form gameplay.  That's all a sandbox is. 

    You only need to have indipendant systems that aren't impacted by other aspects of the game, and the ability to progress in a fashion that isn't dictated by the game.  IE: if you're steared from one zone to the next to do quests and level, and gameplay options are dictated by whatever your characters level is, if you can't craft without killing things and advancing character level, it's not a sandbox.

    Sandbox does not mean there are no levels, quests, or even classes; that's only what some people THINK a sandbox isn't.

    Baldurs gate was considered a sandbox sRPG; it's a D&D game. 

    Every game has areas with level requirements because every area is going to be populated with stuff that is going to require a certian level of advancement to kill, because MMO's aren't dynamically generating content within an area to match the characters in the zones.  Saga of Ryzom is a sandbox, and it has zones with level specific mobs. Eve is a sandbox, and it has zones with level specific mobs; the lower the security rating of the system, the more SP's you need to kill the mobs in that zone. 

     

    I could never get past the animations, combat, and mob AI for the kind of combat in FE enough to actually enjoy the game. 

  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Well to be a sandbox you can't have a class/level system.  That is basically where FE fails the sandbox test.

    So Eve has nothing to worry about from FE because of that.  

    FE's problem as so many of you have pointed out, it really has no end game at all.

    The funny thing is, there's no such thing as an RPG with no classes or levels. 

    Only, an RPG with or without predefined classes. 

    FE has no predefined classes, just like EVE, and both games have levels.

    Doesn't EVE have a skillpoint curve?  Doesn't EVE have Teired items that require you to obtain specific amounts of SP to use?  If I want to use a T2 fitting I have to learn prerequesite skills, each skill has to be leveled/ learned to a specific LEVEL; all of which equates to having a specifc number of skillpoints learned.  To do some things in EVE you need 5 mil. skillpoints, that's no different then saying you need to be level 40 in another game.  The only change here is that I got to choose what I wanted to learn and BUILD MY OWN CLASS.

    Either you create the class yourself, IE: Ultima Online, I learn the skills needed to be a mage, who can also make chickens fight for me, or the game has a class I can select at level one that lets me hurl fireballs and tame chickens to fight for me.  In the end, both games have a class that lets me use magic and tame a chicken. 

    It's a little strange that you would say a game isn't a sandbox if it has classes and levels, but then mention end-game.  Sandboxes don't usually have endgame, because you can't put END game in an OPEN-ENDED game.  It defetes the point of an open-ended system.

    Regardless, FE doesn't have any level based classes; not sure why you think it does. 

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common

    Originally posted by Uhwop

    Originally posted by remyburke

    The author told everyone in the article exactly what a sandbox is.  Open-ended, non-linear, free-form gameplay.  That's all a sandbox is. 

    That is not a good definition. If it were then WoW and just about every theme park mmo out there could be considered sandbox.

  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Xzen

    Originally posted by Uhwop


    Originally posted by remyburke

    The author told everyone in the article exactly what a sandbox is.  Open-ended, non-linear, free-form gameplay.  That's all a sandbox is. 

    That is not a good definition. If it were then WoW and just about every theme park mmo out there could be considered sandbox.

    How?

    WoW is by no stretch open-ended, non-linear, or free-form.

    What's the point of max level?  Rading.

    Can you craft without ever leveling you character?  No.

    Is there anything beyond combat in WoW?  No. 

    WoW revolves around a single gameplay element, killing things. 

    Not to mention, it's impossible for it to not be a good definition, when it IS THE DEFINITION.  Sandbox means open-ended, free-form, and non-linear gameplay.  Baldurs gate, wich was quest, and level based, is a sandbox sRPG because it was considered an open-ended RPG for it's time. 

    Grand theft auto is classified as a sandbox game because it to is open-ended, yet it's also quest, level, and class based; because a sandbox game has nothing to do with classes, level, or quests.  They neither make a game a sandbox, nor do they not make a game a sandbox.

    Sandbox only indicates the way a game is played, not what is or isn't in it, and that's were people keep getting it wrong.  You're designating gameplay elements as being gametype elements and that's not what makes a sandbox. 

    Hybrid is just a marketting blurb.  It's what companies are saying now to try and get more people to take an interest in the game.  They don't want to deny potential players based on the style of play they prefer; so they've come up with this nifty little way of saying well the game is a hybrid sandbox/ themepark game.  Threre's no such thing, it's not possible.  Either the game is a sandbox or it's not.  EQ2 would fall into the "hybrid" catagory that some developers want to push thier game as, but people still call it a themepark.  I personally feel it's more of a sandbox game then it is a themepark game.  I don't need to be an X level Berzerker to be an X level weaponsmith, or to have X level mining.  I don't need to kill anything to own a house or to furnish it.  The game doesn't make me go out and quest and kill stuff to andvance in something other then my character class.  <<<That sounds an awful lot like a sandbox game to me.

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common

    Originally posted by Uhwop

    Originally posted by Xzen


    Originally posted by Uhwop


    Originally posted by remyburke

    The author told everyone in the article exactly what a sandbox is.  Open-ended, non-linear, free-form gameplay.  That's all a sandbox is. 

    That is not a good definition. If it were then WoW and just about every theme park mmo out there could be considered sandbox.

    How?

    WoW is by no stretch open-ended, non-linear, or free-form.

    What's the point of max level?  Rading.

    Can you craft without ever leveling you character?  No.

    Is there anything beyond combat in WoW?  No. 

    WoW revolves around a single gameplay element, killing things. 

    Not to mention, it's impossible for it to not be a good definition, when it IS THE DEFINITION.  Sandbox means open-ended, free-form, and non-linear gameplay.  Baldurs gate, wich was quest, and level based, is a sandbox sRPG because it was considered an open-ended RPG for it's time. 

    Grand theft auto is classified as a sandbox game because it to is open-ended, yet it's also quest, level, and class based; because a sandbox game has nothing to do with classes, level, or quests.  They neither make a game a sandbox, nor do they not make a game a sandbox.

    Sandbox only indicates the way a game is played, not what is or isn't in it, and that's were people keep getting it wrong.  You're designating gameplay elements as being gametype elements and that's not what makes a sandbox. 

    Hybrid is just a marketting blurb.  It's what companies are saying now to try and get more people to take an interest in the game.  They don't want to deny potential players based on the style of play they prefer; so they've come up with this nifty little way of saying well the game is a hybrid sandbox/ themepark game.  Threre's no such thing, it's not possible.  Either the game is a sandbox or it's not.  EQ2 would fall into the "hybrid" catagory that some developers want to push thier game as, but people still call it a themepark.  I personally feel it's more of a sandbox game then it is a themepark game.  I don't need to be an X level Berzerker to be an X level weaponsmith, or to have X level mining.  I don't need to kill anything to own a house or to furnish it.  The game doesn't make me go out and quest and kill stuff to andvance in something other then my character class.  <<

    FFXIV Crafting is it's own class and no combat is required to do it. By your definition it's sandbox when it most certainly is not and neither is EQ.

  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Adelaide, AKPosts: 953Member

    FE is probably the best Free 2 Play MMO around right now IMHO and certainly the best free to play sandbox MMO available.

  • JarazarJarazar West Liberty, KYPosts: 231Member

    I tried FE a few weeks ago, but I couldn't even patch it because my internet kept getting disconnected during the patch. After reading through some google links, I found that it happens to some folks. When I contacted FE tech support, they tried to get me to do a bunch of file renaming, ant-virus disabling and other workarounds to get it to work. I told them no thanks. I checked it again a couple of days ago and it still isn't fixed. I guess they aren't too concerned about gaining/retaining customers.

    image

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Atlanta, GAPosts: 1,901Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Timacek

    FE biggest flaw is absence of economy. Indestructible items are well indestructible. The market overflows with them, the crafting suffers greatly due to this too. Also FE could adapt basicaly eve model to some degree. (highsec-lowsec-nullsec) When in eve someone destroy a ship the economy is very happy about it. also housing and I mean not instanced housing could be great. and last but not least territory control building, not only changing flags in some pre-defined locations. 

    FE could be a great sandbox yes. nevertheless it is not ATM




     

     

    I agree with this.  It's not a bad hybrid, though, and the community is fantastic compared to most MMO communities.  It also no longer requires players to quest, you can get your mount and from there just go around gathering and killing if you really want to.

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member

    Fallen Earth is a fun game.  But we should revisit the list of contenders once ArcheAge, Salem, The Repopulation, and Prime: Battle for Dominus come out just to name a few.   It seems alittle premature to dole out the award when there are quite a few Sandpark games onthe horizon.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • WorstluckWorstluck the valley, CAPosts: 1,269Member

    Besides the open-ended skill system, classless design etc, I never felt that FE was a 'true' sandbox.  It's basically a ton of quets, hubbed together much like a themepark game. 

     

    Not that there is anyting wrong with that, it can be a fun game.  I played it for a few months at the beginning of this year, and a week or so recently during the F2P conversion.  Always get bored though.  I don't think FE should be crowned for anything though, especially a 'sandbox crown' IMO.

    image

  • DrafellDrafell Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 588Member

    I started playing FE again now thats its free to play. Recovered my old characters and am having a decent amount of fun wondering about. The F2P limitations are not readily apparent and do not interefere with the actual gameplay. In all they FE has made a very smooth transition into the F2P market.

    Much Kudos.

  • mindw0rkmindw0rk St-petersburgPosts: 1,351Member

    Anyone mentioned already that FE is not sandbox?

  • mlambert890mlambert890 NY, NYPosts: 135Member

    This argument is about as useful as arguing over how wet water is.

     

    Really only people that feel they need to use terms like "theme park" (always as a pejorative) and "sandbox" (always as some elusive nirvana state) even care about these terms and the great irony is those people can never agree and are in eternal conflict over it; happiest when at each others throats.

     

    For normal humans, the game is either *fun* to them, or *not fun* to them.  Most normal people dont validate their self worth by defining how "hardcore" or not the videogames they play are.  EVE, for me, was *not* fun.  FE for me, *is* fun.  I agree that the presentation and setting are pretty drab, and Im not a big post apocalypse fan, so I dont spend a ton of time there.  It's very very impressive as an achievement considering the budget that went into it, however.

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common

    Originally posted by mlambert890

    This argument is about as useful as arguing over how wet water is.

     

    Really only people that feel they need to use terms like "theme park" (always as a pejorative) and "sandbox" (always as some elusive nirvana state) even care about these terms and the great irony is those people can never agree and are in eternal conflict over it; happiest when at each others throats.

     

    For normal humans, the game is either *fun* to them, or *not fun* to them.  Most normal people dont validate their self worth by defining how "hardcore" or not the videogames they play are.  EVE, for me, was *not* fun.  FE for me, *is* fun.  I agree that the presentation and setting are pretty drab, and Im not a big post apocalypse fan, so I dont spend a ton of time there.  It's very very impressive as an achievement considering the budget that went into it, however.

    I actually like both Theme Park and Sandbox mmorpgs. However some people like to think that the definitions are up for debate or subjective when they are not. There are people that know what a sandbox is and there are people that don't. That's all there is to it.

  • PainlezzPainlezz Laguna Hills, CAPosts: 621Member Uncommon

    Another review that does us little to no good.  8/10?  This game is TWO steps away from perfect?  Really?

    Giving this game an 8/10 means you gave WoW and EQ2 style games a 10/10...

    I read the review and I agree with much of what you said, but then you ruin it with the horrible X of 10 scores.  I can't figure out why everyone is stuck on this idea that all games are 7+ it seems.

    Good writeup, bad numbering!

  • palulalulapalulalula vukovarPosts: 655Member

    Originally posted by vlad1500



    Originally posted by Sketch420

     





    Fallen earth is           NOT A SANDBOX GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





    Worst mmorpg.com article i've ever read. If you dont know what a sandbox game is then you shouldn't be writing for mmorpg.com





    Real sandbox games: EVE, MORTAL ONLINE, DARKFALL, UO, XSYON





    Theme park game + shooter does not = sandbox you retard.










     

    Do you know what "sandbox" game means? Sandbox or open world is a game that you can roam freely and have no rail-roading effect. Have you played Fallen Earth? or you cant get pass the tutorial why you are concluding its a theme park game? lol. 

    The author of this article however played both FE and EVE. Why he knows what he is talking about. Do you?




     

    LOL dude, you can roam free in wow if you like. Nobody force you to do quests.

  • palulalulapalulalula vukovarPosts: 655Member

    I tried FE for  some 2 weeks and i don't think it is true sandbox.Only true sandbox games for me are Mortal Online and Eve, ok DF to. It is good game and .... nothing more nothing less :)

  • rixkrixk KoksverePosts: 45Member

    Some people automatically draw equation mark(or however it is called in english) between character customization and sandbox. FE has great character customization options, but nothing more.

    It was already mentioned here, that you cannot talk about term endgame in the context of a game with open ending. The true sandbox game is, where the game starts from day one, you aren't left out of anything. Of course you are weak and ineffective, so you are encouraged to grow and train, but the "endgame" starts from day one.

    In themepark games, you do the mandatory leveling part to experience the prewritten story and then you are stuck with various hamsterwheels, which the developers have put down for you(so called endgame). Until developers throw out next chunk of the story which you can consume.

    Say what you want, but FE falls into the latter category. Only thing is, that it also lacks the hamsterwheels, which makes people leave once they get to levelcap.

  • vlad1500vlad1500 Angeles CityPosts: 23Member

    Originally posted by rixk

    Some people automatically draw equation mark(or however it is called in english) between character customization and sandbox. FE has great character customization options, but nothing more.

    It was already mentioned here, that you cannot talk about term endgame in the context of a game with open ending. The true sandbox game is, where the game starts from day one, you aren't left out of anything. Of course you are weak and ineffective, so you are encouraged to grow and train, but the "endgame" starts from day one.

    In themepark games, you do the mandatory leveling part to experience the prewritten story and then you are stuck with various hamsterwheels, which the developers have put down for you(so called endgame). Until developers throw out next chunk of the story which you can consume.

    Say what you want, but FE falls into the latter category. Only thing is, that it also lacks the hamsterwheels, which makes people leave once they get to levelcap.




     

    so in your opinion, EVE at day one is already end game content? no leveling? no skill restriction? really? 

  • ZalmonZalmon Bloomington, INPosts: 319Member

    I agree with review and i think people are getting too technical about definition when the line between sandbox and open world MMOS are getting blurred over the years. I wouldn't even care what pure sandbox is now days when there has not been one for many years now and probably never will be.

  • rixkrixk KoksverePosts: 45Member

    Originally posted by vlad1500



    Originally posted by rixk



    Some people automatically draw equation mark(or however it is called in english) between character customization and sandbox. FE has great character customization options, but nothing more.





    It was already mentioned here, that you cannot talk about term endgame in the context of a game with open ending. The true sandbox game is, where the game starts from day one, you aren't left out of anything. Of course you are weak and ineffective, so you are encouraged to grow and train, but the "endgame" starts from day one.





    In themepark games, you do the mandatory leveling part to experience the prewritten story and then you are stuck with various hamsterwheels, which the developers have put down for you(so called endgame). Until developers throw out next chunk of the story which you can consume.





    Say what you want, but FE falls into the latter category. Only thing is, that it also lacks the hamsterwheels, which makes people leave once they get to levelcap.










     

    so in your opinion, EVE at day one is already end game content? no leveling? no skill restriction? really? 




     

    Don't mix up dev made barriers and the barriers you make yourself. Nothing stops you to get into the action from day one in EVE. You would be on the lower end of the foodchain, but when you think you have to have certain ship or skills, then it is you, who has put up those limitations, not the devs. Skilling and leveling only widens your options.

    Same thing I saw in darkfall, where everyone was crying, that they need x amount of skills surging and certain amount of stats to be able to PvP. When I joined the game, I went to a clan, they gave me gear and the action started. Of course, I was far from top and being solo I would've been losing probably to everyone.

    Skills and levels in sandboxes don't determine what you can do, but how well you can do it.

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