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SWTOR Video Review

2

Comments

  • Biggus99Biggus99 Mesa, AZPosts: 916Member

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by Biggus99


    Originally posted by sanosukex


    Originally posted by maskedweasel



    Considering he didn't play very much and the review was based around starter worlds mostly,  he shouldn't have given a lot of the scores he did, to be honest.   It looks like he tried a few different characters but didn't level them very far.... he even mentioned that he wasn't sure about things like.. quest objectivess (which he is wrong about, you do get different rewards as you progress) and so on.

     

    He basically did a complex review of the tutorial...  I give his review a C   

    he says that right at the start its mostly a "first impression" review geez did you people really even listen to what he said? the title of the video is even


    SWTOR First Impressions

    I listened to what he said, did you?  He stated with the amount of playing time he logged in game, his video was between a "preview and a review."  That simply isn't true.  He never made it out of the starter zones.  And how do you just leave entire systems out of your rating altogether (crafting and character progression) as well as only do one Huttball review for PvP?  That's not a review, it's a preview.  He misrepresented.

    wrong listen to the opening he said its "somewhere BETWEEN a first impression and a review" no where does he says its a  review of the game not even close. Either way no one has given any real evidence disputing any points he made

    Somewhere between a first impression and a review leaves quite a bit of discrepency for someone who never made it out of the starter zone, don't you think?  

    And yes....there have been people providing evidence in this thread, as well as on tons of other threads that counters all of the re-hashed negatives this guy has mentioned.  And you've participated on those threads, so you know it.  You just don't choose to believe it because it doesn't fit in with your little view of the game.  Millions of people who love the game beg to differ. 

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Biggus99

    Originally posted by sanosukex


    Originally posted by Biggus99


    Originally posted by sanosukex


    Originally posted by maskedweasel



    Considering he didn't play very much and the review was based around starter worlds mostly,  he shouldn't have given a lot of the scores he did, to be honest.   It looks like he tried a few different characters but didn't level them very far.... he even mentioned that he wasn't sure about things like.. quest objectivess (which he is wrong about, you do get different rewards as you progress) and so on.

     

    He basically did a complex review of the tutorial...  I give his review a C   

    he says that right at the start its mostly a "first impression" review geez did you people really even listen to what he said? the title of the video is even


    SWTOR First Impressions

    I listened to what he said, did you?  He stated with the amount of playing time he logged in game, his video was between a "preview and a review."  That simply isn't true.  He never made it out of the starter zones.  And how do you just leave entire systems out of your rating altogether (crafting and character progression) as well as only do one Huttball review for PvP?  That's not a review, it's a preview.  He misrepresented.

    wrong listen to the opening he said its "somewhere BETWEEN a first impression and a review" no where does he says its a  review of the game not even close. Either way no one has given any real evidence disputing any points he made

    Somewhere between a first impression and a review leaves quite a bit of discrepency for someone who never made it out of the starter zone, don't you think?  

    And yes....there have been people providing evidence in this thread, as well as on tons of other threads that counters all of the re-hashed negatives this guy has mentioned.  And you've participated on those threads, so you know it.  You just don't choose to believe it because it doesn't fit in with your little view of the game.  Millions of people who love the game beg to differ. 

     

    what evidence? yes I admit I have been in several threads more or less "bashing" the game. Yet I still admit I will be buying it. I'm offering an opinion based on the fact a AAA title with highest budget of MMO ever is missing very basic MMO features that are pretty standard in new games these days such as a customizable UI. Never have I said this game is trash or sucks and niether did this reviewer he actually gave VERY good scores to many aspects. Even higher than I agree with. My whole argument is people are praising this game to highly and in doing so I don't think the changes that do need to be made will be made in a timly manner if the developers assume everyone thinks the game is perfect(not that I think in anyway they read anything written here)

  • Happyguy83Happyguy83 Phoenix, AZPosts: 264Member

    Played the game myself and enjoyed it.

     

    Could care less about what some guy on youtube thinks.

  • NikopolNikopol The ZonePosts: 626Member Uncommon

    I think less of the game than he does on most points, and he does present good arguments here and there, but I'd say he veers too easily to sensationalism. Most non-professional reviews are guilty of this, especially when it comes to grading - and you can see it reflected in the abundance of Fs and As on any "User Review" sites.

    For example, it's hard to disagree with his points about "Environment". All of it is well argumented and somewhat detailed - though I'm sure many would object to their importance. But then he goes and gives the environment an F, and anyone that's played, say, 10+ MMOs would know SWTOR's environments, while in my opinion an obvious weakness of the game, is hardly bad enough to constitute absolute bottom-of-the-barrel. Come on.

    Also sometimes he just doesn't give any detailed reasoning for a grade, and just goes for the "Meh, I'll just be dismissive here" shtick, as in character creation - which again he grants an F. It's like he cannot dislike an aspect of the game without reaching for an F! :) (I kid, I kid.)

    Anyway, I'd say as amateur reviews go, it's so so, though I agree on most aspects.

  • DexterMMODexterMMO Houston, TXPosts: 484Member
    Originally posted by SoCalBoomer


    Originally posted by DexterMMO

    When I review a product I do so in comparison to it's competition ... This guy on the other hand seemed to review it next to a game that doesn't exist. Therefore I do not respect or acknowledge his review. If someone says look here at wow, notice how much more fluid this is in a comparable not made up example of what I'm reviewing followed by him liking one over the other. I can respect that. But manifesting expectations that no product of a genre meets is silly.

    I RARELY ever post on here, but this post irritated me so I'm gonna. :D

     

    Dexter - a review of a game doesn't mean it's a comparison. So that's how YOU review a game - it's not how a lot of people do it and, honestly, it shouldn't be how it's done. Should not a game stand on its own two feet? Bioware touts this game as the be-all and end-all of MMOs so why should it be reviewed in comparison to WoW? 

    So your respect of him is based on his not reviewing the way you would do it? Okay.

     

    I found it pretty straightforward and in accord with several other reviews I've either read or seen. Very linear questing is bad in an MMO; persistent and non-interactive spawns is bad in a modern MMO; poor communication system is bad in a modern MMO; a non-customizeable UI should be unforgiveable in a modern PC based MMO. Really, where's the argument in that? 

     

    Okay, back into invisibility! :D

     

    For a rating system to work there has to be a high and low. Doesn't matter if it's a grade abcdf or 1-10. You can't have a grade system without there being a comparitive product graded. Hence how in school you're graded by how closely you match the objectives. Same shit here... For it to be a "review" and not a opinion piece it has to be reviewed in comparison to what currently exists. Also since when has reviewing a game during it's tutorial been taken seriously. Ultimately it's just haters trying to validate their hate. I don't like wow but I've never spent time in wow forums explaining my dislike or jumping on any band wagon of hate I can to validate my dislike. I accept wows eternal spot in moms and have defended it against similar biased non sense that shouldn't exist in any form of seriousness.

    Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by DexterMMO

     

    For a rating system to work there has to be a high and low. Doesn't matter if it's a grade abcdf or 1-10. You can't have a grade system without there being a comparitive product graded. Hence how in school you're graded by how closely you match the objectives. Same shit here... For it to be a "review" and not a opinion piece it has to be reviewed in comparison to what currently exists. Also since when has reviewing a game during it's tutorial been taken seriously. Ultimately it's just haters trying to validate their hate. I don't like wow but I've never spent time in wow forums explaining my dislike or jumping on any band wagon of hate I can to validate my dislike. I accept wows eternal spot in moms and have defended it against similar biased non sense that shouldn't exist in any form of seriousness.

    like i said in previous post where does he say its a "REVIEW" its a collaboration of first impression and his opinions who really cares overall what score he gave it really doesnt matter. The fact is the points he makes about the UI, about character custimzation, about the empty world, about the fact most dialog choices really make no difference are valid and should be what people are looking at

  • RedempRedemp Hot Springs, ARPosts: 1,042Member

     I don't mind negative reviews, they are going to happen ... even the completely moronic ones. This review was a touch misguided on some points.

     

     The only issue with his impression video I want to clarify for anyone reading, is his questing summary.

     

      He states that Bioware likes to give you one quest objective far from the other quests,  which implies its a single quest in the wrong direction from your other assorted quests.This is horridly WRONG! I wish I had taken screenshots of my objectives marked on my map for each turn-in for the hubs in Coruscant. They always were on the way to my storyline mission,  every one of them. I completed every side quest avaliable while enroute to my character quest, and sometimes while returning from it... even the bonus's are staggered in a manner that pulls you in the direction of your main objective.

    Bioware knew that the maps were huge, they knew we would be without a sprint for awhile ... so they intelligently designed the quest placements.

     

    ( Note most my experience comes from the second planets. )

  • Ethos86Ethos86 KortrijkPosts: 124Member

    For some people,  when a negative review appears it doesn't matter how much they played, how they compare it, or how they word it. If it's negative it must be untrue... right?

    One of the most common quotes:

    "Why do people who dislike the game have to critisize it, can't they just go away and move on to their game instead of trying to convince everyone how bad it is?"

    Whell let me ask everyone who thinks this ways about critisizm:

    "Why do you, if you like this game so much, even care to respond their negative opinion while trying to convince everyone how good it is? "

     

    The more reviews I see, the more similar issues I see popping up on the negative side. Where actual positive reviews aren't really well argumented. That's what I'm starting to notice, but hey, maybe it's just me...

     

    PS: To the poster above me, I have already seen "Let's Plays" where they have to fast-forward alot because the walking between quests and giving them back in was so boring... the fact that the world isn't very "alive" and the city's mostly "dead empty" with NPC rooted in a spot... it doesn't really help with making the walk interesting.

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member

    The video reviewer makes some valid points.  You could take it as constructive criticism if you want since the game is not yet released.  He said he will make additional videos after launch so he's not saying it's worthless and he wont buy it.  He's just saying the game has some faults, but inspite of those it's still worthy of a purchase.  I can agree with that.

     

    Heck I even broke down and preordered today.  Wife's cat peed on the rug and I got a new videogame.  Go me.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Ethos86

    For some people,  when a negative review appears it doesn't matter how much they played, how they compare it, or how they word it. If it's negative it must be untrue... right?

    One of the most common quotes:

    "Why do people who dislike the game have to critisize it, can't they just go away and move on to their game instead of trying to convince everyone how bad it is?"

    Whell let me ask everyone who thinks this ways about critisizm:

    "Why do you, if you like this game so much, even care to respond their negative opinion while trying to convince everyone how good it is? "

     

    The more reviews I see, the more similar issues I see popping up on the negative side. Where actual positive reviews aren't really well argumented. That's what I'm starting to notice, but hey, maybe it's just me...

     

    PS: To the poster above me, I have already seen "Let's Plays" where they have to fast-forward alot because the walking between quests and giving them back in was so boring... the fact that the world isn't very "alive" and the city's mostly "dead empty" with NPC rooted in a spot... it doesn't really help with making the walk interesting.

    exactly how I feel. It really bothers me some people actually think this game is PERFECT it's really insane. But it is a good game we just expect a little more from a game of this calibur. How can you not expect people to voice there opinions on a game they are going to spend 15 bucks a month to play

  • musicmannmusicmann port allen, LAPosts: 1,107Member

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by DexterMMO

     

    For a rating system to work there has to be a high and low. Doesn't matter if it's a grade abcdf or 1-10. You can't have a grade system without there being a comparitive product graded. Hence how in school you're graded by how closely you match the objectives. Same shit here... For it to be a "review" and not a opinion piece it has to be reviewed in comparison to what currently exists. Also since when has reviewing a game during it's tutorial been taken seriously. Ultimately it's just haters trying to validate their hate. I don't like wow but I've never spent time in wow forums explaining my dislike or jumping on any band wagon of hate I can to validate my dislike. I accept wows eternal spot in moms and have defended it against similar biased non sense that shouldn't exist in any form of seriousness.

    like i said in previous post where does he say its a "REVIEW" its a collaboration of first impression and his opinions who really cares overall what score he gave it really doesnt matter. The fact is the points he makes about the UI, about character custimzation, about the empty world, about the fact most dialog choices really make no difference are valid and should be what people are looking at

    Pleae just quit with your bull. It's the tutorial area of the game that he gave his impression on. Those areas didn't feel empty at all. It's not supposed to be the most challenging content in the game.  As for the dialog choices not mattering, that's bull to. Back on the 11.11.11 beta, i created a JK and got him to level 14. Went all lightside answers and stuff and the beta ended. Well in this last beta, i created another JK and went total dark. Got him to Dark II to be exact. Not only did they have different actions and outcome of my decision, but my companions started to act differently and with sith corruption on, my appearance changed big time. If he would have leveled further than the starting world he would have seen that.

     

     Are there core systems in the game that can and will be worked on to be more robust. I can say with confidence, yes. This game even though ready for launch, will be patched and worked on to satisfy those that have some negatives with the game. I mean, some of you act like this is it, it's etched in stone, no more upgrading or tweaking of any kind.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by musicmann

    Are there core systems in the game that can and will be worked on to be more robust. I can say with confidence, yes. This game even though ready for launch, will be patched and worked on to satisfy those that have some negatives with the game. I mean, some of you act like this is it, it's etched in stone, no more upgrading or tweaking of any kind.

    obviously they feel the UI they made is "good" in there eyes. We as the customers have to voice it if we want this changed. If we don't how will they know?

     

    as for story's yes some have cause and effect but in the big scheme of things they do not matter much at all besides thel ight and dark points equipment. The world outside you own person "quest bubble world" is not effected by the decisions you make. It's a hard system to implement in a MMO but some steps could have been done to make it somewhat more immersive. If they had actual NPC guards and real NPC AI they could of put a system like mass effect or kotor in which entire cities would react differn't to you depending if you went good or bad but this would require a more interactive world outside just the quest givers.

  • tinuelletinuelle bergenPosts: 287Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    How can you not expect people to voice there opinions on a game they are going to spend 15 bucks a month to play

    Dude,

    If someone spent 15 bucks on something, I would expect them to not bother me about their opinion. If you voice your opinion, then let it be because of the game. Not the lousy 15 bucks and million dollar expectations.

     

    image
  • RedempRedemp Hot Springs, ARPosts: 1,042Member

    Originally posted by Ethos86

     

    PS: To the poster above me, I have already seen "Let's Plays" where they have to fast-forward alot because the walking between quests and giving them back in was so boring... the fact that the world isn't very "alive" and the city's mostly "dead empty" with NPC rooted in a spot... it doesn't really help with making the walk interesting.

     

     Thats not really what I was refuting, I won't argue walking distances .. my impression post states my feelings on that as well.

     

     I'll bite though ...

     Coruscant is very much an "alive" area ,  there are a plethora of npcs moving about the areas. I'm also extremely tired of the "mobs are rooted in place" rally cry some people are using. Every mob I've seen has been engaged in some form of activity, whether thats scavenging the area, waiting in ambush, seemingly talking with his buddies, patroling,  or rebuffing. Half og the quest hubs are guarded by security forces which are attacked by mobs! They are NO less more alive than any other mmorpg ever made. Are the quest givers stationary ... Yes, what quest givers are NOT stationary in any other mmorpg?

     

    It never will cease to amaze me what people target to gripe about, the game has plenty of REAL flaws without inventing new ones.

     

  • tussauctussauc Mound, MNPosts: 147Member

    I stopped after about six minutes, most of his complaints seemed reasonable, but subjective. The only one I agreed with was the UI, which while slick and responsive, needs better positioning as many aspects of it overlap other aspects and cause problems.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by tinuelle

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    How can you not expect people to voice there opinions on a game they are going to spend 15 bucks a month to play

    Dude,

    If someone spent 15 bucks on something, I would expect them to not bother me about their opinion. If you voice your opinion, then let it be because of the game. Not the lousy 15 bucks and million dollar expectations.

     

    15 bucks a month is not a lot but its something and the time you invest in a MMO is DEFINITLEY worth voicing an opinion on. For a lot of people MMOs eat up 20 hours + a week you seriously don't think that time doesn't carry enough weight for some pretty serious opinions if I'm spending this much time in a game for the course of a year I'm sure as hell going to voice what I think about it. Especially an MMO that's an evolving and changing entity in itself

  • echolynfanecholynfan Lancaster, PAPosts: 681Member

    I give the reviewer an F for his snide little wussy-boy voice - I just couldn't stand listening to him so I don't care what he has to say about SWTOR.

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • musicmannmusicmann port allen, LAPosts: 1,107Member

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by musicmann


    Are there core systems in the game that can and will be worked on to be more robust. I can say with confidence, yes. This game even though ready for launch, will be patched and worked on to satisfy those that have some negatives with the game. I mean, some of you act like this is it, it's etched in stone, no more upgrading or tweaking of any kind.

    obviously they feel the UI they made is "good" in there eyes. We as the customers have to voice it if we want this changed. If we don't how will they know?

     

    as for story's yes some have cause and effect but in the big scheme of things they do not matter much at all besides thel ight and dark points equipment. The world outside you own person "quest bubble world" is not effected by the decisions you make. It's a hard system to implement in a MMO but some steps could have been done to make it somewhat more immersive. If they had actual NPC guards and real NPC AI they could of put a system like mass effect or kotor in which entire cities would react differn't to you depending if you went good or bad but this would require a more interactive world outside just the quest givers.

     

    The UI thing really doesn't bother me, but, some people wan that function to be able to move it all around. Since their not letting mods be done at launch, this might tie into the reason why they set up the UI in this fashion at the moment.

    As for the interactive world, hey, i would love for the NPC's to shiver and grovel at my jedi gone Dark boots when i walked passed them. It is what it is and hey, keep up a good fight, you never know they just might have this type of thing planned on their wall of crazy.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by musicmann

    As for the interactive world, hey, i would love for the NPC's to shiver and grovel at my jedi gone Dark boots when i walked passed them. It is what it is and hey, keep up a good fight, you never know they just might have this type of thing planned on their wall of crazy.

    they MIGHT but how do you know? a lot of updated content in MMO's can be based on user feedback. If people don't express this how would they know thats what people really want? This sort of stuff needs to be voiced again and again so it is eventually implemented

  • musicmannmusicmann port allen, LAPosts: 1,107Member

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by musicmann

    As for the interactive world, hey, i would love for the NPC's to shiver and grovel at my jedi gone Dark boots when i walked passed them. It is what it is and hey, keep up a good fight, you never know they just might have this type of thing planned on their wall of crazy.

    they MIGHT but how do you know? a lot of updated content in MMO's can be based on user feedback. If peopel don't express this is how they would enjoy the game better how would they know? This sort of stuff needs to be voiced again and again so it is eventually implemented

    Well, i would love it, you would love it, and some others too. It still doesn't mean that from their perspective, that type of world interaction goes with their vision and how they want the game to play.

    Like i said before. Not every game is gonna have everything in it, that will make it the ultiamte game for everyone.

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member

    Originally posted by Redemp

    Originally posted by Ethos86



     

    PS: To the poster above me, I have already seen "Let's Plays" where they have to fast-forward alot because the walking between quests and giving them back in was so boring... the fact that the world isn't very "alive" and the city's mostly "dead empty" with NPC rooted in a spot... it doesn't really help with making the walk interesting.

     

     Thats not really what I was refuting, I won't argue walking distances .. my impression post states my feelings on that as well.

     

     I'll bite though ...

     Coruscant is very much an "alive" area ,  there are a plethora of npcs moving about the areas. I'm also extremely tired of the "mobs are rooted in place" rally cry some people are using. Every mob I've seen has been engaged in some form of activity, whether thats scavenging the area, waiting in ambush, seemingly talking with his buddies, patroling,  or rebuffing. Half og the quest hubs are guarded by security forces which are attacked by mobs! They are NO less more alive than any other mmorpg ever made. Are the quest givers stationary ... Yes, what quest givers are NOT stationary in any other mmorpg?

     

    It never will cease to amaze me what people target to gripe about, the game has plenty of REAL flaws without inventing new ones.

     

    Off of the top of my head I can name two mmos where there were nonstatic quest givers.  One was very well known, WOW.  Yes, many quest givers were static but there are some that walk around or patrol areas.  Another game is SWG.  Again, there were static mobs, but some such as the case in the hero quest had you scouring the area for npcs that wandered a good sized area. 

     

     

  • NikopolNikopol The ZonePosts: 626Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Terranah

     

    ...

     Wife's cat peed on the rug and I got a new videogame.  Go me.

    Well, yeah, waaayyy OT, but I thought that's haiku-worthy: image

     

    Wife's cat peed on the rug

    I got a new videogame

    Go me

     

  • DexterMMODexterMMO Houston, TXPosts: 484Member
    I haven't played to max level nor completed all content so I can't say if all npcs are static but I can ask. Is this even proven or just speculation because if you can only name a couple in WoW which has 8 years of updates I don't think I'm going to judge bioware to strictly on it. Especially if a wandering mob doesn't add anything to the game other than a patrol path. One day when npcs are like skyrim/oblivion I'll definitely put more stake in it but a mob walking 50 feet non stop for months of play don't make or break immersion. For me it's about seeing other players that immerses my world.

    Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by DexterMMO

    I haven't played to max level nor completed all content so I can't say if all npcs are static but I can ask. Is this even proven or just speculation because if you can only name a couple in WoW which has 8 years of updates I don't think I'm going to judge bioware to strictly on it. Especially if a wandering mob doesn't add anything to the game other than a patrol path. One day when npcs are like skyrim/oblivion I'll definitely put more stake in it but a mob walking 50 feet non stop for months of play don't make or break immersion. For me it's about seeing other players that immerses my world.

    other players help but it also helps more if every player doesn't look the same. To me to feel part of a game or part of the "story" you shouldn't have to feel like a clone of everyone else. Of course that's just my opinion also like I said a few posts up if they really wanted to make there story telling give a much bigger impact they could have implemented the same type of system KOTOR or Mass effect had where everyone in the world would react to you depending on your actions.. in this game(from what I have experienced) only the quest givers can react since nothing else seems to have any AI at all and are just backdrop statues placed in positions throughout the maps

  • gimmekeygimmekey Montreal, QCPosts: 117Member

    He sounds exactly like Artie Ziff, Marge SImpson's pimply faced ex-boyfriend.

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