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Good- evil characters in SWTOR...

Hello guys,

 

I played the beta the weekend and i loved the game so i probably going to preorder.

Ofc there are some issues the have to take care but i think that it's already good and mostly bug free game.

 

I have a question though,

 

Lets assume that Jedis are good and Siths are bad...  Something like Alliance-Horde in WoW.

 

If i play a jedi but i choose the Dark path...  can i team up with Siths?

Can i be a "bad" Jedi consular and  enter a guild full of eeeevil Sith's and raid with them? 

It would be awsome to be able to change sides

«1

Comments

  • gimmekeygimmekey Montreal, QCPosts: 117Member

    Light/Darkside alignment has nothing to do with faction standing and is little more than cosmetic (both in character and equipment appearance).

     

  • kastakasta Mineola, TXPosts: 512Member

    You cannot switch factions nor can you team cross-faction.  If you are an evil jedi you are just an evil jedi.  You will never be and can never be a sith.

  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common

    no, you cannot switch sides.  light/dark just effects what kind of gear you have and even that's just cosmetic because the stats are identical.

     

    philosophically, you can't really be "good" sith or "evil" jedi, because on the whole sith are still evil and jedi are still good.

     

    For example: a "good" imperial would kill an entire camp full of slaves, whereas an "evil" imperial would torture them first.  Both imperials however see nothing wrong with slavery in the first place. 

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  • TeiloTeilo LiverpoolPosts: 284Member

    Originally posted by Megalicious

    Lets assume that Jedis are good and Siths are bad...  Something like Alliance-Horde in WoW.

    You opened a can of works with that one: many Horde players will tell you they're the good guys! ;) 

    It seems very strange to me that you can make Evil Jedi and Good Sith, yet they can't take that final step and switch.

    I hope eventually they add something like City of Heroes faction crossing to SWTOR, it only makes sense that a Jedi who max's out on the Dark Side should fall from grace and join the Sith, or a Light Side Bounty Hunter should seek redemption.

     

     

  • ComanComan Hattem, AKPosts: 2,026Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Megalicious

     Lets assume that Jedis are good and Siths are bad...  Something like Alliance-Horde in WoW.

    I think there is still a lot of room in the Jedi and Siths code to be either good or evil. Also one side is not bad and one side is not good. In fact I have always found the Jedi order more sinister. They rule without passion and emotion. Is that good? There is not ignorance, but knowledge? Even the Jedi do not know everything and can still make bad decision based on there knowlege.

    In fact in the game your character is not allowed to assist the pilgrims by the order of the Jedi council, you can do it still though. So a bad jedi makes morally bad dicision, but still follow the Jedi code. Good jedi might actually stray from this path, because they use there emotion for example just to save someone.

    Thus the good person is getting closed to the dark side, while the evil jedi is not.

  • MegaliciousMegalicious AthensPosts: 5Member

    What i had in mind was Darth Vader that was a Jedi consumed by Dark side that eventually became a prince for the Sith side.

     

    So in movie he changed factions...  :)

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member

    Originally posted by kasta

    You cannot switch factions nor can you team cross-faction.  If you are an evil jedi you are just an evil jedi.  You will never be and can never be a sith.

    Which is definitely mind boggling, eh?

    For how many years now, have we been told about the dangers of a Jedi turning to the Dark Side...?

    Anakin - Jedi.

    Turns to Dark Side.

    Vader - Sith Lord.

    Mind boggling, eh?

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • kastakasta Mineola, TXPosts: 512Member

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    Originally posted by kasta

    You cannot switch factions nor can you team cross-faction.  If you are an evil jedi you are just an evil jedi.  You will never be and can never be a sith.

    Which is definitely mind boggling, eh?

    For how many years now, have we been told about the dangers of a Jedi turning to the Dark Side...?

    Anakin - Jedi.

    Turns to Dark Side.

    Vader - Sith Lord.

    Mind boggling, eh?

    Not to me, maybe to you.  It's a game and like that other game you can't go from Horde to Alliance.

  • ComanComan Hattem, AKPosts: 2,026Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    Originally posted by kasta

    You cannot switch factions nor can you team cross-faction.  If you are an evil jedi you are just an evil jedi.  You will never be and can never be a sith.

    Which is definitely mind boggling, eh?

    Not at all. Simply because you as a Jedi make morally bad discision does not mean your are not following the Jedi code. In the game this translates to the fact the Jedi Counsil lets the pilgrim fend for themselves. They are in general good people, but simply not "approved" to be there, therefor they shall not be helped.

    Is that good or evil? Does that make the Jedi Council evil and all getting closer to being Sith?

     

    Only when more knowlege is gained they change there mind. Using no emotion and only knowlege to make a choice might actually mean you make a morally bad choice.

  • kostoslavkostoslav somborPosts: 459Member

    Originally posted by kasta

    Originally posted by VirusDancer


    Originally posted by kasta

    You cannot switch factions nor can you team cross-faction.  If you are an evil jedi you are just an evil jedi.  You will never be and can never be a sith.

    Which is definitely mind boggling, eh?

    For how many years now, have we been told about the dangers of a Jedi turning to the Dark Side...?

    Anakin - Jedi.

    Turns to Dark Side.

    Vader - Sith Lord.

    Mind boggling, eh?

    Not to me, maybe to you.  It's a game and like that other game you can't go from Horde to Alliance.

    Yes u can go from Horde to Alliance for 25 euro :)

  • kastakasta Mineola, TXPosts: 512Member

    Originally posted by kostoslav

    Originally posted by kasta


    Originally posted by VirusDancer


    Originally posted by kasta

    You cannot switch factions nor can you team cross-faction.  If you are an evil jedi you are just an evil jedi.  You will never be and can never be a sith.

    Which is definitely mind boggling, eh?

    For how many years now, have we been told about the dangers of a Jedi turning to the Dark Side...?

    Anakin - Jedi.

    Turns to Dark Side.

    Vader - Sith Lord.

    Mind boggling, eh?

    Not to me, maybe to you.  It's a game and like that other game you can't go from Horde to Alliance.

    Yes u can go from Horde to Alliance for 25 euro :)

    Oh?  Well, I stand corrected.  Maybe in a couple years Bioware will let you pay 25 euro to switch. :)

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member

    Originally posted by Coman

    Originally posted by VirusDancer


    Originally posted by kasta

    You cannot switch factions nor can you team cross-faction.  If you are an evil jedi you are just an evil jedi.  You will never be and can never be a sith.

    Which is definitely mind boggling, eh?

    Not at all. Simply because you as a Jedi make morally bad discision does not mean your are not following the Jedi code. In the game this translates to the fact the Jedi Counsil lets the pilgrim fend for themselves. They are in general good people, but simply not "approved" to be there, therefor they shall not be helped.

    Is that good or evil? Does that make the Jedi Council evil and all getting closer to being Sith?

    There are multiple choices you make on your path to the Dark Side.  Pointing out flaws in how the system work does not change that.  Heck, Jedi's are not supposed to have romances - you have misson where you chose to reveal one or hide it.  Later on, you have your own.  Pointing out flaws does not change the historical precedence for a Jedi becoming Sith.

    To an extent, it is a problem with the classes.



    • Republic Smuggler - but, there would also be Neutral Smugglers and Imperial Smugglers.


    • Republic Trooper - but there would also be be Neutral Troopers and Imperial Troopers.


    • Imperial Bounty Hunter - but there would also be Neutral Bounty Hunters and Rebublic Bounty Hunters.


    • Imperial Agent - but there would also be Neutral Agents and Republic Agents.

    As for the Jedi/Sith Classes, no doubt they should be tied more closely to the two factions than the others; but again, there is a precedence for Jedi -> Sith and Sith -> Jedi.

    They could have done far more with the classes as well as Light/Dark, while keeping it a themepark.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,230Member Uncommon

    grmpf when will you guys understand, this is not the star wars movies, this is like 3000 years before it.

     

    being sith or jedi wasn't really about decision, it was about being born into it.

     

    why should a sith accept a former jedi to fight with him?

    we hate those guys!

    they drove us into hiding for nearly a thousand years, now we came back, took our homeplanet from them (and not very peacefully, we took it as hard as we could) and took their lightsabers! (of corz we changed the color gems tho...)

     

     

    PEACE IS A LIE! WE DONT WANT TO ARRANGE WITH THOSE BLUE LIGHTSABERSWINING NICEGUYS!

    we are war! we are sith!

     

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju3h7yk4Hcg&feature=player_detailpage#t=25s

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • blutm8blutm8 GrevenbroichPosts: 68Member Uncommon

    hey,

     

    i played weekend beta too. i have played smuggler as a good one and as an evil one. the differences are just the answers and the way the story is progressing. there are items you only can use if you are light / dark side rank 1 +. there are special vendors for light and dark items. oh and if you go dark side.. some optical changes will apears.. like red glowing eyes, pale hide... there have been a quest where you rob a list from black sun and you can decide to destroy it and do a favour for a senator (light side action) or just sell that list to another smuggler to get better reward for that mission (dark side action)

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member

    Originally posted by Thane

    being sith or jedi wasn't really about decision, it was about being born into it.

    Did you play through the early Consular story?

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • MaggonMaggon CopenhagenPosts: 305Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Thane

    grmpf when will you guys understand, this is not the star wars movies, this is like 3000 years before it.

     

    being sith or jedi wasn't really about decision, it was about being born into it.

     

    why should a sith accept a former jedi to fight with him?

    we hate those guys!

    they drove us into hiding for nearly a thousand years, now we came back, took our homeplanet from them (and not very peacefully, we took it as hard as we could) and took their lightsabers! (of corz we changed the color gems tho...)

     

     

    PEACE IS A LIE! WE DONT WANT TO ARRANGE WITH THOSE BLUE LIGHTSABERSWINING NICEGUYS!

    we are war! we are sith!

     

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju3h7yk4Hcg&feature=player_detailpage#t=25s

    I believe there is a companion which joins the Jedi Knight class which originally was born as a sith, but she claim she is not (keera is the name I believe?), and joins the republic, while I know that there's another guy who is Sith by race, who also joins the Jedi Knights cause. 

     

    So its certainly still possible even if you are born into one or the other

  • TeiloTeilo LiverpoolPosts: 284Member

    Originally posted by Thane

    grmpf when will you guys understand, this is not the star wars movies, this is like 3000 years before it.

     

    being sith or jedi wasn't really about decision, it was about being born into it.

     

    why should a sith accept a former jedi to fight with him?

    we hate those guys!

    they drove us into hiding for nearly a thousand years, now we came back, took our homeplanet from them (and not very peacefully, we took it as hard as we could) and took their lightsabers! (of corz we changed the color gems tho...)

    PEACE IS A LIE! WE DONT WANT TO ARRANGE WITH THOSE BLUE LIGHTSABERSWINING NICEGUYS!

    we are war! we are sith!

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju3h7yk4Hcg&feature=player_detailpage#t=25s

    Rubbish!

    The Republic wouldn't turn away people who have seen the Light and seek redemption, and the Empire certainly wouldn't turn aside republic traitors (and don't, in-game :p).

    Oh, and Light Side Sith can use blue lightsabres.

    WoW's paid-for faction change isn't the correct model for this as it retcons your character (and costs money!) - City of Heroes has faction change (hero/villain) as part of the game.

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,230Member Uncommon

    to quote the same monty python ep i linked above:

    "you are no fun anymore!"

     

    jesus christ you lore guys are serious eh? :)

     

     

    and no, i did not play jedi, i am sith by nature :>

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    Originally posted by Coman


    Originally posted by VirusDancer


    Originally posted by kasta

    You cannot switch factions nor can you team cross-faction.  If you are an evil jedi you are just an evil jedi.  You will never be and can never be a sith.

    Which is definitely mind boggling, eh?

    Not at all. Simply because you as a Jedi make morally bad discision does not mean your are not following the Jedi code. In the game this translates to the fact the Jedi Counsil lets the pilgrim fend for themselves. They are in general good people, but simply not "approved" to be there, therefor they shall not be helped.

    Is that good or evil? Does that make the Jedi Council evil and all getting closer to being Sith?

    There are multiple choices you make on your path to the Dark Side.  Pointing out flaws in how the system work does not change that.  Heck, Jedi's are not supposed to have romances - you have misson where you chose to reveal one or hide it.  Later on, you have your own.  Pointing out flaws does not change the historical precedence for a Jedi becoming Sith.

    To an extent, it is a problem with the classes.



    • Republic Smuggler - but, there would also be Neutral Smugglers and Imperial Smugglers.


    • Republic Trooper - but there would also be be Neutral Troopers and Imperial Troopers.


    • Imperial Bounty Hunter - but there would also be Neutral Bounty Hunters and Rebublic Bounty Hunters.


    • Imperial Agent - but there would also be Neutral Agents and Republic Agents.

    As for the Jedi/Sith Classes, no doubt they should be tied more closely to the two factions than the others; but again, there is a precedence for Jedi -> Sith and Sith -> Jedi.

    They could have done far more with the classes as well as Light/Dark, while keeping it a themepark.

     

    The classes are all mirrored. Smugglers are the equivalent of Imperial Agents. Troopers are the equivalent of Bounty Hunters. Sith warriors are the equivalent of Jedi Knights. Sith Inquisitors are the equivalent of Jedi Sages. Even the talent trees and roles are mirrored with different appearance flavours.

    Opening up betrayal quests would improve the race / class combos available. Although Bioware might not want true Sith or Chiss betraying.

  • reid424reid424 Chi-Town, ILPosts: 488Member Uncommon

    Let's try and see the bigger picture here this is an MMO and it does stand on the box of purchase "Game experience may change during online play.". This is only the 1st portion of this game which we all know hater or not will be a successful release and change how MMO's are made to a degree. That being said they have plenty of room to add on with expansion packs in the future and take more money from us as consumers; which i'm fine with since they've earned my money. All the things anyone mentioned earlier can   and might happen might see an an Imperial Smuggler for instance since in Hutta it's clear they have smugglers, Bounty Hunter is all about credits so wouldn't be shocked to see a Republic BH, the trick is making these two classes unique so we'd want to play them for gameplay reasons story aside. Next race's will most likely be added in two that jump right out at me are Cathar and Bothan. I think races need to speak basic well if not very well so that leaves out races such as Ithorian sadly. Lastly I wouldn't be shocked to eventually see in a future expansion the option to jump sides without paying real cash to do so it'd make one hell of a story arch decision if implemented but I don't see that happening for years when the game loses steam and faces a similar WoW exodus, for whatever game may be coming out than (Mass Effect MMO???? DA MMO?? I can dream right?)

    image
  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member

    Originally posted by evilastro

     

    The classes are all mirrored. Smugglers are the equivalent of Imperial Agents. Troopers are the equivalent of Bounty Hunters. Sith warriors are the equivalent of Jedi Knights. Sith Inquisitors are the equivalent of Jedi Sages. Even the talent trees and roles are mirrored with different appearance flavours.

    Opening up betrayal quests would improve the race / class combos available. Although Bioware might not want true Sith or Chiss betraying.

    Classes are not mirrored.  Roles are mirrored.  There is a difference.  If the classes were mirroed, then you would have Imperial and Republic Agents - you would have Republic and Imperial Smugglers - you would have Imperial and Republic Bounty Hunters - and - you would have Republic and Imperial Troopers.

    If you want to fill the role normally played by an Imperial Agent, you can play a Republic Smuggler - Republic Trooper, Imperial Bounty Hunter...

    ...so yes, the roles and thus talent trees to fill those roles are going to be mirrored.

    The classes are not though...for players.  Yep, you will speak with NPC Imperial Troopers and NPC Republic Agents.  You just can't play them.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • bobfishbobfish SouthamptonPosts: 1,688Member

    Classes aren't mirrored directly, there is minor variations, not in skills, but in equipment available.

     

    It should be possible for you to switch sides, but at this time they've decided not to allow it. We'll see what happens in the future, but I don't think it will be an issue for most people, as Faction is different from Good/Evil. Even as a Dark Jedi, I would have no real desire to join the Empire, they are racist slavers and that just doesn't suit me.

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member

    Originally posted by bobfish

    Classes aren't mirrored directly, there is minor variations, not in skills, but in equipment available.

     

    It should be possible for you to switch sides, but at this time they've decided not to allow it. We'll see what happens in the future, but I don't think it will be an issue for most people, as Faction is different from Good/Evil. Even as a Dark Jedi, I would have no real desire to join the Empire, they are racist slavers and that just doesn't suit me.

    I wanted to comment on your comment about the Empire, in a sense...

    ...in my experience this past weekend, the "most EVIL" story was that of a Dark Smuggler.

    The Republic takes a best dead view of Rebels...lol.  Ironic, eh?

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Brandon, FLPosts: 3,649Member

    Originally posted by reid424

    Let's try and see the bigger picture here this is an MMO and it does stand on the box of purchase "Game experience may change during online play.". This is only the 1st portion of this game which we all know hater or not will be a successful release and change how MMO's are made to a degree. That being said they have plenty of room to add on with expansion packs in the future and take more money from us as consumers; which i'm fine with since they've earned my money. All the things anyone mentioned earlier can   and might happen might see an an Imperial Smuggler for instance since in Hutta it's clear they have smugglers, Bounty Hunter is all about credits so wouldn't be shocked to see a Republic BH, the trick is making these two classes unique so we'd want to play them for gameplay reasons story aside. Next race's will most likely be added in two that jump right out at me are Cathar and Bothan. I think races need to speak basic well if not very well so that leaves out races such as Ithorian sadly. Lastly I wouldn't be shocked to eventually see in a future expansion the option to jump sides without paying real cash to do so it'd make one hell of a story arch decision if implemented but I don't see that happening for years when the game loses steam and faces a similar WoW exodus, for whatever game may be coming out than (Mass Effect MMO???? DA MMO?? I can dream right?)

    When you go through the Imperial Agent story up to the point of picking Sniper/Operative, the guy mentions that you have been approved for two of the specialties - but mentions there are many others.

    It will be interesting if other specialties introduced as the game progresses - and - if they will change the stance on not being able to change that, or if people will have to roll a new toon to experience them.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • leumasx7leumasx7 Orange Park, FLPosts: 218Member

    Originally posted by kasta

    You cannot switch factions nor can you team cross-faction.  If you are an evil jedi you are just an evil jedi.  You will never be and can never be a sith.

     

    Which is to bad, would be awesome if bioware added something later where you could switch sides. Maybe at max level able to switch sides. Would be more wide diversity and more awesomeness to starwars enviroment. Evil jedi's falling to sith. Sith's changing ways.

     

    Also have bounty hunter, and smuggler able to work for both sides.

     

    And trooper/agent to become outcast freelancers for the other side, and people who will still hire them outside main army of faction..

     

     

    Wouldn't dat be epic.. (*crosses fingers*) maybe bioware will catch on.

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