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Not innovative enough

13

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  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member

    Originally posted by timtrack

    I loved the game, i'll play it.

     

     

    The End

    Boom! Nuff said.

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  • DerrosDerros Posts: 1,076Member Uncommon

    I don't even know what innovation means anymore, the word is thrown around so much.

  • ElricmerrenElricmerren White Bear Lake, MNPosts: 295Member

    From everythign i remeber they nevver really tried sayig the game was going to be innovative or ground breaking out side of vs, story driven, and such. I laugh when peole complain about not having a reason to group with others outside of group-based content, since if you wanted to group then strike up a convo about looking for a group to do the content with. People want these games to be group  focused, or even forced grouping so that people group more, but the game pop does not want that at all so you have to get used to talking to people and actually looking for a group. Combat was never said to be anythign beyond what wow was really, yet a sith class that can be either a stealther or a caster is pretty interesting to me. Saddly the additude of people in these game has turned off many gamers to the idea of more then a form of slight group encouragement style.

  • kaliniskalinis Dexter, MEPosts: 1,428Member

    its not just recycling they have flashpoints that dont even become available till 50. Some people like more of a challgne and hard modes give them that. 

    I like heroics in wow. i disagree u need all new instances at max level as alot of players first time through skip falshpoints or dungeons to hit max level and then group up then.

    IM one of those people that doesnt level in flashpoints much or warzones and leaves that stuff for end game. So for me this a good thing.   

    OH and judging on beta chat they will have more then enough players , I dont know how many times i saw players saying how much they were shocked they loved tor and didnt expect to and were gonna go buy it. 

    so not only will u get the 2-3 mil who have already pre ordered u get the people ordering it when it comes out on launch day . Tor may well have the biggest launch in mmo history. 

    I think it will end up keeping 3/4 of those to . The more i play tor the more into i get. I cant ait to see balmora and the other planets in tor dromund kaas was a blast and huge at that. i cant wait to try coruscant on republic side and lose myself in this game. 

    Dont like it thats your opinion seemed to me most players were loving it and the people who would bash it got blasted in chat .

  • pmaurapmaura Orlando, COPosts: 515Member

    so you idea of inovation is copying SWG a failed game.

    People like throwing this word innovation around, but I have seen not one iinovative idea form anyone. What people are really annoyed with is the game is not for them, its like saying make an apple innovative. Its just an apple. Some people like orranges.

     

    Pepople are saying bee innovative use comples crafting, thats been done. Be Innovative get rid of class system, thats been done. Bee innovative change the UI, UI are the least innovative thing on the planet since people have done about 1000 different types/

  • SupersoupsSupersoups New Orleans, LAPosts: 1,004Member

    Originally posted by Derros

    I don't even know what innovation means anymore, the word is thrown around so much.

    No one knows really because this word is really subjective. Hard to make people agree on what one finds innovaiton because there will always be someone who will disagree.

    it has become more like one word argument when people run out of things to say.

    image

  • osiriszoranosiriszoran oakland park, FLPosts: 86Member

    Whelp. The stories & situations i encountered in the first few days of SWG have been far more immersive than my few days in SW:TOR.  I think i just set my expectations really high for SW:TOR.  I wish i could explain to those who never played SWG what that first year was like.

     

    If you read wha ti said you would see i said not to copy SWG, but to use some of the features that made it great & expand upon them. Make the game more immersive. People were actually MUSICIANS AND DANCERS in SWG and Cantinas were FILLED with real players and not npcs.

     

    Thats the type of Immersion i find these MMOs lacking these days. Immersion beyond quests and pvp.....

  • Thoth-AmonThoth-Amon edinburghPosts: 91Member

    at first I was fairly underwhelmed with the beta. when I found out it was continuing on into monday night i gave it another go and I was hooked. I was up till 1am on a work night playing my inquisitor.

     

    it still feels like a single player game with a chat box though. i cant see how raids or any other end game will work. characterisation for a new game felt fairly limited and gfx underwhleming. there was also a feeling of small worlds and bing constrained by walls/barriers, almost Doom like at times.

     

    Its a great story though and I did enjoy it.

  • thamighty213thamighty213 NewcastlePosts: 1,630Member

    Originally posted by Supersoups

    Originally posted by thamighty213


    Originally posted by Supersoups


    Originally posted by thamighty213


    WOW acted as the apprenticship for millions but those millions are now experienced and want a little more from games.  TOR doesnt quite deliver that it stays a little too much to the themepark formula and does not quite offer enough outside the box thinking.

     

    And you are? please stop speaking for millions when i doubt you know even 10. Please speak for yourself, it is a very old tactics, to make your point look more important than it really is.

    As far as game being easy and can be duo'd with your companion i call bullshit on that. Unless you are anti social type and too stubborn to ask for help in general  or use LFG window and come back to heroic content when you are 4 to 5 levels above. yes you can do it.

    Try doing it at appropriate levels and heroics will swat you like a fly. Really it isn't that hard to find someone to group with since everyone gets bonus xp, social points and better drops in groups. As far as solo quests well they are meant to be soloed so the name SOLO..duh!

    I'm not speaking for millions I'm stating facts,   why has WOW been bleeding subs ? because people are bored of it they want something new and fresh,  look at discussions on any forum and you will find a large segment of present WOW players and recent WOW unsubs who are looking for something fresh that doesnt play like WOW.

    Heroics is the only point you ever have to group thats the point they are so sparse and do not offer enough rewards compared to just running and gunning alone through what constitutes 90% of the leveling experience which is soloable (with companion) tripe.

    TOR is a solofest, stereotypical themepark MMO so the OP's point is completely valid the game has not innovated enough to attract those bored of the themepark MMO.

     

     

    Opinion not a fact unles you know the exact reason why those millions quit WOW. Stop trying to pass your assumptions as fact. You don't know those people. Even though arguing with you will be like hitting my head against the wall, i will try again.

    Heroics, flashpoints, operations, FFA pvp zones, elite and champion boses on every map.. not enough reasons to group up? every map has atleast 5 to 6 heroics quest and many of those quests keep updating objectives till you enter an instance to face a champion boss. So no they are not sparse and offer lots of challenge unless you are 4 to 5 levels above them. 

    Every planet has heroic areas (not instanced) and even if you are not doing heroic quests it is well worth the time to get bonus experince, social points and good drops. i got two purple drops and veyr high quality mods but that was only possible because i was in group of 3. For those who like crafting rare mats exist only in heroic zones and FFA pvp zones.

    That 90% of your stats is made up just like how you think you are in position to speak for millions of players. 

    All you have to do is read any gaming forum and you will constantly see posts of players leaving because they are bored of it,  have burned through the content provided by expansions and now bored so have left,  just look at the last expansion its expected content path and the dates that these mass drop offs have happened.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure these things out.  Hell I even sat in on a EA presentaiton on TOR's content delivery map that analytics show this has been the exact drop off of WOW's numbers presented by a former Blizz employee.  But hey I know nothing and its pureley my opinion but you can keep kidding yourself that its the economical climate or such like and not the fact people are simply bored of it.

    Your point on the group content is moot in todays kiddie market look after number 1 if it doesnt benefit them and isnt quicker than just soloing everything they don't want to do it,   admitedly my 3 month in beta was spent without my guild and with a much smaller playerbase than this weekends beta provided but getting anyone to even run heroics was like pulling teeth and I highly doubt that changed much.

  • SupersoupsSupersoups New Orleans, LAPosts: 1,004Member

    Originally posted by thamighty213

    Opinion not a fact unles you know the exact reason why those millions quit WOW. Stop trying to pass your assumptions as fact. You don't know those people. Even though arguing with you will be like hitting my head against the wall, i will try again.

    Heroics, flashpoints, operations, FFA pvp zones, elite and champion boses on every map.. not enough reasons to group up? every map has atleast 5 to 6 heroics quest and many of those quests keep updating objectives till you enter an instance to face a champion boss. So no they are not sparse and offer lots of challenge unless you are 4 to 5 levels above them. 

    Every planet has heroic areas (not instanced) and even if you are not doing heroic quests it is well worth the time to get bonus experince, social points and good drops. i got two purple drops and veyr high quality mods but that was only possible because i was in group of 3. For those who like crafting rare mats exist only in heroic zones and FFA pvp zones.

    That 90% of your stats is made up just like how you think you are in position to speak for millions of players. 

    All you have to do is read any gaming forum and you will constantly see posts of players leaving because they are bored of it,  have burned through the content provided by expansions and now bored so have left,  just look at the last expansion its expected content path and the dates that these mass drop offs have happened.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure these things out.  Hell I even sat in on a EA presentaiton on TOR's content delivery map that analytics show this has been the exact drop off of WOW's numbers presented by a former Blizz employee.  But hey I know nothing and its pureley my opinion but you can keep kidding yourself that its the economical climate or such like and not the fact people are simply bored of it.

    Your point on the group content is moot in todays kiddie market look after number 1 if it doesnt benefit them and isnt quicker than just soloing everything they don't want to do it,   admitedly my 3 month in beta was spent without my guild and with a much smaller playerbase than this weekends beta provided but getting anyone to even run heroics was like pulling teeth and I highly doubt that changed much.

    Once again your personal experince has no bearing on thousands of others who are playing SWTOR in groups and enjoying it. You really need to start talking more about yourself instead of others. I know people do it here a lot to make a point but it really doesn't work.

    And no i am not kidding myself because i am not making tall claims of knowing millions of players and trying to pass my opinions as a FACT. Atleast, i back up whatever i said. You said it is a single player game and i mentioned you all the group content and benefits you get out of it.

    And all you do is tell me 'group content is moot'? nice dodge there. So first there was no group content and now there is group content but it is moot. Awesome. 

    Days of forced grouping are gone. Swtor gives you options or benefits for teaming up but it is up to you whether you want to use those benefits or continue solo and miss group content or come back to it when you are 4 or 5 levels above it. Don't blame SWTOR for your own play style.

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  • ElricmerrenElricmerren White Bear Lake, MNPosts: 295Member

    Originally posted by osiriszoran

    Whelp. The stories & situations i encountered in the first few days of SWG have been far more immersive than my few days in SW:TOR.  I think i just set my expectations really high for SW:TOR.  I wish i could explain to those who never played SWG what that first year was like.

     

    If you read wha ti said you would see i said not to copy SWG, but to use some of the features that made it great & expand upon them. Make the game more immersive. People were actually MUSICIANS AND DANCERS in SWG and Cantinas were FILLED with real players and not npcs.

     

    Thats the type of Immersion i find these MMOs lacking these days. Immersion beyond quests and pvp.....

     One isse is tht the majority of players do not want that in a game, and also this is not about exactly the star wars universe as a whole, but about the specific time period after the last sith incursion. Those that the gaame was developed for were not the ones that played swg, but were the ones that played kotor, even wow who liked sw, and just sw fans. I find it funny people think that they were trying to make a immesion like swg in any regard, when that game was less about the time period and more about the actual feel fo the game.  I would suggest staying away from themeparks as that is where the immesion is even with vos, and such it is the lore, quests, and conflict the immerse you.

  • grunt187grunt187 omaha, NEPosts: 956Member

    Originally posted by Derros

    I don't even know what innovation means anymore, the word is thrown around so much.

    That and the word "Dynamic" people can stop using them anytime now.image

    The following statement is false
    The previous statement is true

  • TeiloTeilo LiverpoolPosts: 284Member

    Originally posted by dubyahite

    I love all the complaints about innovation. This magical "innovation" everyone speaks of is not even defined by everybody the same.

    Spot on.

    Innovation is a niche product - Linux is innovative, yet the vast majority of us use Windows.

    I'm  fed up with  people who complain that they've seen it all before therefore everything should be sparkly and new;  for every one of them there are dozens, hundreds, of people who have never played any MMO before: they haven't seen it all before.

    Innovation is overrated.

  • osiriszoranosiriszoran oakland park, FLPosts: 86Member

    Originally posted by Elricmerren

    Originally posted by osiriszoran

    Whelp. The stories & situations i encountered in the first few days of SWG have been far more immersive than my few days in SW:TOR.  I think i just set my expectations really high for SW:TOR.  I wish i could explain to those who never played SWG what that first year was like.

     

    If you read wha ti said you would see i said not to copy SWG, but to use some of the features that made it great & expand upon them. Make the game more immersive. People were actually MUSICIANS AND DANCERS in SWG and Cantinas were FILLED with real players and not npcs.

     

    Thats the type of Immersion i find these MMOs lacking these days. Immersion beyond quests and pvp.....

     One isse is tht the majority of players do not want that in a game, and also this is not about exactly the star wars universe as a whole, but about the specific time period after the last sith incursion. Those that the gaame was developed for were not the ones that played swg, but were the ones that played kotor, even wow who liked sw, and just sw fans. I find it funny people think that they were trying to make a immesion like swg in any regard, when that game was less about the time period and more about the actual feel fo the game.  I would suggest staying away from themeparks as that is where the immesion is even with vos, and such it is the lore, quests, and conflict the immerse you.

    If an MMO can replicate a scenario like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTOJU1td7Gw&feature=fvwrel

    i would be very happy. Will see if SW;TOR can get near this level of epic with their pvp zones. Shame NGE did in SWG.

  • osiriszoranosiriszoran oakland park, FLPosts: 86Member

    Originally posted by Teilo

    Originally posted by dubyahite

    I love all the complaints about innovation. This magical "innovation" everyone speaks of is not even defined by everybody the same.

    Spot on.

    Innovation is a niche product - Linux is innovative, yet the vast majority of us use Windows.

    I'm  fed up with  people who complain that they've seen it all before therefore everything should be sparkly and new;  for every one of them there are dozens, hundreds, of people who have never played any MMO before: they haven't seen it all before.

    Innovation is overrated.

    and producing a nearly identical product is OVERUSED in this industry.

  • GMan3GMan3 Ewa Beach, HIPosts: 2,127Member

        Now I don't know if you would consider this innovation OP, but this is the first MMO that I have played that made me WANT to team up.  It made the quest cutscenes so much more fun that I just kept looking for groups even when I didn't need one to run the content.  Pretty good for a game that doesn't force you to team.  Of course this is a subjective experience, but of the dozen or so MMO's I have played, this is the only one I team in because the gameplay (not the conversations) is more fun.

        Oh and btw, I think the budget was actually spent on creating SO MUCH content.  Unlike most MMOs at release, this one is huge.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • SupersoupsSupersoups New Orleans, LAPosts: 1,004Member

    Originally posted by osiriszoran

    Originally posted by Teilo


    Originally posted by dubyahite

    I love all the complaints about innovation. This magical "innovation" everyone speaks of is not even defined by everybody the same.

    Spot on.

    Innovation is a niche product - Linux is innovative, yet the vast majority of us use Windows.

    I'm  fed up with  people who complain that they've seen it all before therefore everything should be sparkly and new;  for every one of them there are dozens, hundreds, of people who have never played any MMO before: they haven't seen it all before.

    Innovation is overrated.

    and producing a nearly identical product is OVERUSED in this industry.

    You guys talk as if MMO players numbers have peaked and no new players are discovering MMOS every day. tell those playes all these talks about overused and innovation and they will give you a blank stare. For someone who is going to play WOW,SWTOR, RIFT for first time he couldn't care less about these things.

    image

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    Some of these discussions about Star Wars seemed to be cloned from earlier discussions about RIFT as it was being launched.(I would agree with the OP that there is not enough innovation in the game ...particularly in the area of 24/7 persistent world realm conflict where a real opportunity seems to have been lost...so far).

     

    I think many game developers don't understand the experience level of the MMOG population.In the west...populations are aging....players in the genre have more experience than developers give them credit for...and so the oft repeated litany from gamers is....."we've seen most of this before".....and its true.

  • face30face30 Somewhere, OHPosts: 193Member

    So many ask for innovation , yet no one has this great "innovation" idea. I think this is what the MMO genre is. A single player game? No, it's just made as a casual game. Every game is what "YOU" make it, if you want to group you will, if you want to player single player you will. Whenever a "group" concept is pushed , people scream it's to hard, forced grouping sucks. What happened to role playing, what happened to the imagination of the player immersing themselve into the world. No developer/game company can do that for anyone.

    In short , no one can please everyone, the best they can do is please the masses and profit from their product.

  • TeiloTeilo LiverpoolPosts: 284Member

    Originally posted by osiriszoran

    Originally posted by Teilo


    Originally posted by dubyahite

    I love all the complaints about innovation. This magical "innovation" everyone speaks of is not even defined by everybody the same.

    Spot on.

    Innovation is a niche product - Linux is innovative, yet the vast majority of us use Windows.

    I'm  fed up with  people who complain that they've seen it all before therefore everything should be sparkly and new;  for every one of them there are dozens, hundreds, of people who have never played any MMO before: they haven't seen it all before.

    Innovation is overrated.

    and producing a nearly identical product is OVERUSED in this industry.

    Please.

    Show me an industry where there aren't multiple near identical products vying for market share.

    Cars; phones; frozen peas; etc; etc.

    There are distinguisng features, but Ford isn't going to start making 7 wheeled cars with the driver's seat on the roof to be innovative; some crackpot might, but hardly anyone will buy it.

  • mrxennonmrxennon JarrowPosts: 209Member

    Originally posted by osiriszoran

    Got to lvl 22 as a sith sorcerer in the open beta and i felt the combat was identical to wow and even the spells and abilities were copies.  I didnt feel as if the world was vast & expansive...it felt enclosed always by mountains....even on tatooine and hoth it was sand/snow squished between mountains.

    While the class quests were great & entertaining the side quests were more of the same mmo style quests. The space combat missions were fun the first few times but it felt more like a mini game then anything and felt like they just threw it in to say they had space combat. The game also felt to much like a single player game even though there was some group quests to group for....there was no need to interact with people other than these quests. The city hubs existed solely for trainers & there was no real social interactions going on within them. It reminded me of how the cities felt in SWG when people started quitting and the cantinas became empty.

    For spending 150 million it feels like they bypassed innovation for i guess graphics? voice acting? story telling? Story telling only gets you so far because everyone will hit level 50 and wanting to experience more from their MMO.

    I felt BW should of grabbed more features from SWG and expanded them (detailed crafting system, making being social in cantinas/main city hubs desireable, limited player cities/fortresses  that are conquerable or destroyable, vast sandbox planets).

     

    I want SW:TOR to be a good game but my hopes are definitely a lot lower now after this let down. I ll still give BW the benefit of the doubt that they can produce some quality end game content and stick it out and see how it progresses. I guess im just bummed at the lack of innovation and them taking the easy lazy route of MMO style.

    No Developer will produce a AAA title that is so different to the style of WoW, EQ, and UO if players are going to constantly kick it in the teeth, because all the feedback they will get is "why didnt you use what those titles have got because it works blah blah blah?"

    Its the players who have only got itself to blame for the situation that the MMO market is in.  There is only one MMO where I never felt I was fetching x or killing x constantly to progress my character,  FFXI.  You can QQ as much as you like about what you didnt like about FFXI, (though most of you didnt even give it a chance) it had some of the best innovations most MMO's have in todays market.

    End game will never change, we are all going to see either competetive PvP or dungeon grinds for better gear for end game content.

  • Delerious1Delerious1 Lynnwood, WAPosts: 72Member

    I dunno.

    My main class quests have solid story and cinematics.

    Even the piddly ass fetch and kill quests have cinematics.

    The companions were fucking awesome.  I thought their ai was fantastic and having the option to tell them what ability to open combat with whether that be a heavy hitting single target shot, a taunt, an aoe or whatever was great.  I started getting attached to my companions a little even by level 12 and questing with them reminded me a little of the Mass Effect games which is a GOOD thing.

    I liked the crafting system and it's definitely different. 

    Enjoyed even the unbalanced low level pvp where half the classes have a better selection of pvp'ish abilities than the other half until later in the game.

    Did a low level heroic.  I wasn't blown away, but it had cinematics and thinking back it's better than any other low level heroic in any other game I can remember doing just because of that.

    I dunno.

    Seems innovative enough to me.

     

  • osiriszoranosiriszoran oakland park, FLPosts: 86Member

    I dont mind the combat or the pvp. my big thing is the lack of care Bioware took in making the game vast, open, & alive.

  • ZenjinxZenjinx St. John's, NFPosts: 328Member

    Originally posted by osiriszoran

    I dont mind the combat or the pvp. my big thing is the lack of care Bioware took in making the game vast, open, & alive.

    I understand your concerns, but in comparison, SWG had huge expanses of dead space with nothing to do, but look at the scenery. In addition to this, the game was riddled with bugs, and even years after it's release, it was not as stable as SWTOR is in beta.

    I agree with you that cantenas were a fun social aspect of the game, but most people were only there for the musician and dancer buffs, and this actually forced the social interaction. Same with doc buffs.

    I miss a number of things in SWG, but i have found SWTOR to be a far superior game overall. Hopefully, in the future, they will add more and make the planets more expansive, but not at the expense of less content.

  • gimmekeygimmekey Montreal, QCPosts: 117Member

    "Did us guiys kno that COD MW3 is a dumbed down clone of Counter STrike SOurce? OMG GUIYS it's destined to fail!!one11!"

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