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Where's the life and soul of this game?

124

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  • watchawatchawatchawatcha LIC, NYPosts: 960Member

    Originally posted by lizardbones



    Mobs exist so you can kill them. Why does it matter what they're doing when you're not killing them? If you're not doing something that's part of your story line or a mission, you won't even see them.



    In the process of killing them (the actual important part of the interaction), I've watched them duck behind cover, jump out from behind objects and heal each other (until I kill the healer). I've been crowd controlled too. This is a LOT more than most mmorpg where the mobs just stand there and mindlessly plug away at you until they die. I could really give a cr@p if they don't patrol around.



    The NPCs on the other hand are something else entirely. The talk and have little conversations. NPCs that I've dealt with in the past with missions have something to say to me that relates both to themselves and to my missions. I've gotten a couple letters from NPCs I've dealt with in the past, giving me an update on how things are turning out (mostly good, thanks to me). At once point I walked into a bar past the security, and when I walked out the bouncers were dead and the crowd in front of the bar had scatter off someplace. I have no idea what happened there because I wasn't involved in whatever it was. It looked interesting whatever it was. In another area where security forces are fighting insurgents, you can kill the insurgents and instead of just spawning more insurgents, more come running from someplace to take up positions against the security forces.



    Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but it really does seem that people are trying to find anything they can to nitpick about.

     

    Nitpick?  I call shinanigans.  Some movement would be nice yes and I don't know where you've been playing, but everything I've seen the NPCs most certainly are frozen in time for the most part.  The mobs should move somewhat.  They should do something.  If they did do that in SWTOR, you know full well that you would be champion it as an asset.   But because they don't, all of a sudden it doesn't matter?  yeah right.

    I think your definition of nitpicking is too broad.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,908Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    That's the deal with this game right now.  You're hearing the lovers of it say "we didn't need that feature anyway, and 99% of gamers don't care about it".   So basically what they are saying is exactly what I said in the OP.  The game is a sterile mmo experience where VO quests were used to spice up otherwise boring (in my opinion) gameplay.  The world, the atmosphere, the details that immerse you deeply into the story, is non-existant.    Now I know some people will argue that last sentence, and all I can say to that is good on you, if you are cool with the way this game looks and feels.  For me, compared to much, much older games, it is dead and lifeless.  Hell, even Rift feels more alive than this one to me and I find Rift to be general boring as well.

    No what you're getting here are people who disagree with what is immersive and what draws them into an experience. If you didn't feel a connection to the story, the atmosphere or what have you, that's fine. However by this post all I can see is you being unwilling to accept mileage may vary based on preference and individual taste.

    To me all MMO's are lifeless, that's due to the characters within having no life, all they are is text dispensers, I didn't feel that way about TORs characters, the characters are what added the life and soul to the game for me.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • dj525dj525 prescott, AZPosts: 39Member

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Originally posted by dj525





    I dont need to make up excuses not to group when there is no need to group. Sorry I play plenty of mmo's and I also run a guild but guess thats not being social. Sorry the game does not give you any reason to group unless you feel like grouping up and for what to finish the super easy quest that take no skill what so ever. Sound to me like all you want to do is lvl as fast as you can, thats why you group no other reason.

    If you don't group because you don't NEED to group, then that means you don't WANT to group.  Why should a game force you to do something you don't want to do?

    You can use the same logic for any part of the game.  You don't NEED to do space combat, so you won't do space combat unless you WANT to do space combat.  Why should they force people to do that?

    Then it's not a mmo. Whats the whole point of a mmo to play with others and there should be a need to group or whats the point of paying a sub when I can just buy a single player rpg.

    That would be part of the game if you so choose to take part in space combat so be it, if you don't then you don't.

  • dj525dj525 prescott, AZPosts: 39Member

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by MindTrigger



    That's the deal with this game right now.  You're hearing the lovers of it say "we didn't need that feature anyway, and 99% of gamers don't care about it".   So basically what they are saying is exactly what I said in the OP.  The game is a sterile mmo experience where VO quests were used to spice up otherwise boring (in my opinion) gameplay.  The world, the atmosphere, the details that immerse you deeply into the story, is non-existant.    Now I know some people will argue that last sentence, and all I can say to that is good on you, if you are cool with the way this game looks and feels.  For me, compared to much, much older games, it is dead and lifeless.  Hell, even Rift feels more alive than this one to me and I find Rift to be general boring as well.

    No what you're getting here are people who disagree with what is immersive and what draws them into an experience. If you didn't feel a connection to the story, the atmosphere or what have you, that's fine. However by this post all I can see is you being unwilling to accept mileage may vary based on preference and individual taste.

    To me all MMO's are lifeless, that's due to the characters within having no life, all they are is text dispensers, I didn't feel that way about TORs characters, the characters are what added the life and soul to the game for me.

    Yes these are all just opinions. So if you like the game then go have fun.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,247Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by dj525

    Originally posted by Robsolf


     

    If you don't group because you don't NEED to group, then that means you don't WANT to group.  Why should a game force you to do something you don't want to do?

    You can use the same logic for any part of the game.  You don't NEED to do space combat, so you won't do space combat unless you WANT to do space combat.  Why should they force people to do that?

    Then it's not a mmo. Whats the whole point of a mmo to play with others and there should be a need to group or whats the point of paying a sub when I can just buy a single player rpg.

    That would be part of the game if you so choose to take part in space combat so be it, if you don't then you don't.

    No.  that's NOT the whole point of an MMO.  An MMO should never have to force people to group with you in order to get people to group. 

    I've been in far too many "MMO=forced grouping" threads already to hijack this one for the cause.  We clearly disagree.  I'm leaving it at that.

  • dj525dj525 prescott, AZPosts: 39Member

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Originally posted by dj525


    Originally posted by Robsolf


     

    If you don't group because you don't NEED to group, then that means you don't WANT to group.  Why should a game force you to do something you don't want to do?

    You can use the same logic for any part of the game.  You don't NEED to do space combat, so you won't do space combat unless you WANT to do space combat.  Why should they force people to do that?

    Then it's not a mmo. Whats the whole point of a mmo to play with others and there should be a need to group or whats the point of paying a sub when I can just buy a single player rpg.

    That would be part of the game if you so choose to take part in space combat so be it, if you don't then you don't.

    No.  that's NOT the whole point of an MMO.  An MMO should never have to force people to group with you in order to get people to group. 

    I've been in far too many "MMO=forced grouping" threads already to hijack this one for the cause.  We clearly disagree.  I'm leaving it at that.

    Sounds good but sorry I never said force anyways I said a need or feel that i should group to accomplish somthing really cool. Never did I say force so please don't put words in my mouth. If theres no real reason to group up and accomplish something then whats the point of being a mmo.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,908Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by dj525

    Originally posted by Robsolf


    Originally posted by dj525


    Originally posted by Robsolf


     

    If you don't group because you don't NEED to group, then that means you don't WANT to group.  Why should a game force you to do something you don't want to do?

    You can use the same logic for any part of the game.  You don't NEED to do space combat, so you won't do space combat unless you WANT to do space combat.  Why should they force people to do that?

    Then it's not a mmo. Whats the whole point of a mmo to play with others and there should be a need to group or whats the point of paying a sub when I can just buy a single player rpg.

    That would be part of the game if you so choose to take part in space combat so be it, if you don't then you don't.

    No.  that's NOT the whole point of an MMO.  An MMO should never have to force people to group with you in order to get people to group. 

    I've been in far too many "MMO=forced grouping" threads already to hijack this one for the cause.  We clearly disagree.  I'm leaving it at that.

    Sounds good but sorry I never said force anyways I said a need or feel that i should group to accomplish somthing really cool. Never did I say force so please don't put words in my mouth. If theres no real reason to group up and accomplish something then whats the point of being a mmo.

    Again did you play the game, or are you running with heresay and assumptions? There are whole areas of worlds with elite world bosses and mobs that are designed to be tackled with a group.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by dj525

    Originally posted by Robsolf


    Originally posted by dj525


    Originally posted by Robsolf


     
    If you don't group because you don't NEED to group, then that means you don't WANT to group.  Why should a game force you to do something you don't want to do?
    You can use the same logic for any part of the game.  You don't NEED to do space combat, so you won't do space combat unless you WANT to do space combat.  Why should they force people to do that?


    Then it's not a mmo. Whats the whole point of a mmo to play with others and there should be a need to group or whats the point of paying a sub when I can just buy a single player rpg.
    That would be part of the game if you so choose to take part in space combat so be it, if you don't then you don't.


    No.  that's NOT the whole point of an MMO.  An MMO should never have to force people to group with you in order to get people to group. 
    I've been in far too many "MMO=forced grouping" threads already to hijack this one for the cause.  We clearly disagree.  I'm leaving it at that.


    Sounds good but sorry I never said force anyways I said a need or feel that i should group to accomplish somthing really cool. Never did I say force so please don't put words in my mouth. If theres no real reason to group up and accomplish something then whats the point of being a mmo.


    Again did you play the game, or are you running with heresay and assumptions? There are whole areas of worlds with elite world bosses and mobs that are designed to be tackled with a group.



    They were putting a group together for the world boss on Coruscant last night. At level 14, there is a world boss hanging around waiting for groups large enough to tackle it.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • dj525dj525 prescott, AZPosts: 39Member

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by dj525


    Originally posted by Robsolf


    Originally posted by dj525


    Originally posted by Robsolf


     

    If you don't group because you don't NEED to group, then that means you don't WANT to group.  Why should a game force you to do something you don't want to do?

    You can use the same logic for any part of the game.  You don't NEED to do space combat, so you won't do space combat unless you WANT to do space combat.  Why should they force people to do that?

    Then it's not a mmo. Whats the whole point of a mmo to play with others and there should be a need to group or whats the point of paying a sub when I can just buy a single player rpg.

    That would be part of the game if you so choose to take part in space combat so be it, if you don't then you don't.

    No.  that's NOT the whole point of an MMO.  An MMO should never have to force people to group with you in order to get people to group. 

    I've been in far too many "MMO=forced grouping" threads already to hijack this one for the cause.  We clearly disagree.  I'm leaving it at that.

    Sounds good but sorry I never said force anyways I said a need or feel that i should group to accomplish somthing really cool. Never did I say force so please don't put words in my mouth. If theres no real reason to group up and accomplish something then whats the point of being a mmo.

    Again did you play the game, or are you running with heresay and assumptions? There are whole areas of worlds with elite world bosses and mobs that are designed to be tackled with a group.

    I see you didn't read my post, yes I did but you can think i didn't and I also said at what lvl 50 can't wait to get past the single player part of the game.

  • dj525dj525 prescott, AZPosts: 39Member

    Anyways you guys have fun playing the greatest mmo never. I have better things to do.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Eir_S

    Originally posted by lizardbones


    Mobs exist so you can kill them. Why does it matter what they're doing when you're not killing them? If you're not doing something that's part of your story line or a mission, you won't even see them.
    SWTOR: Immersion unleashed.....  
    Honestly, I've been trying not to get involved regarding the little back and forths going on about how brilliant/disappointing this game is, but if what you said is how people actually feel, they kind of deserve a flat experience.  That whole sentence reaks of MMO fail.  Themeparks away!



    I have no idea how most other people feel. I know what I think and that's it. It doesn't matter what the mobs you're supposed to kill are doing when you're not killing them. What they're doing while you're killing them is more important. All the NPCs you'll interact with on a regular basis or see in the background on a regular basis are more important. All the other stuff that was in the paragraphs you didn't quote.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,247Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by dj525

     

    Sounds good but sorry I never said force anyways I said a need or feel that i should group to accomplish somthing really cool. Never did I say force so please don't put words in my mouth. If theres no real reason to group up and accomplish something then whats the point of being a mmo.

    There are lots of reasons to group, even in the starter area.  World bosses, Flashpoints, Boss Elites, with bonus XP, rare drops and rewards to go with them that are superior to what you get in solo areas.  So, if you can't be enticed by superior rewards, then you can only be forced.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    I actually found there to be a quite a lot of random NPC activity going on in towns and cities and such. Plenty of life and ambiance.

    The Jedi temple on Tython especially, also Kaas city (Imperial Capital) on Dromand Kaas.

    Many examples on Balmora, Ord Mantell, and Hutta of NPC's fighting each other etc.

    Coruscant felt very alive and active, first metropolis in a MMO that really felt huge to me.

    Between the Holocron's and clickable lore objects plenty of reason to explore.

    I've already seen a bunch of open-world bosses, plenty of heroic group-only content even on the starter worlds...

    and I've seen just a fraction of the game.

    All indication point to the worlds getting even bigger, becoming even more open, and having more of a focus on party and large group activities in the open world as the game progresses.

    OP is right though about the Class story's being leaps and bounds over the world quests in terms of content and story, but honestly who didn't expect that?

    For all of their money and talent, Bioware/EA are still just mortal men/women and don't have unlimited funds.

    If the game was 100% class story it wouldn't be much of a MMO?

    Funny people complain about not enough class story now and too much MMO...

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    For all of their money and talent, Bioware/EA are still just mortal men/women and don't have unlimited funds.

    I expect better!!!  I am consumer!!!

  • HatewallHatewall Cumming, GAPosts: 120Member

    I hope there is more that will be "turned on" when it goes live.

    I played this weekend and Tabula Rasa immediately came to mind: It looks great but there is nothing here.

    Nothing to click on, pick up, or interact with. No animals, bugs, fish. No plants to pick, minerals to collect. No ambient sounds. Nothing at all.

    In fact, all there is is clicking on an npc with the symbol over it's head and then running to the symbol on the map. There must be more than this when it goes live.

    Some of what is there is very poor. A lot of the textures are just plain bad. I don't care how big of a fan you are or how long you have been waiting. The texture work is very amateur. Again, I am assuming there must be a HUGE jump in quality when it goes live. This can't be the final.

    This IS world of warcraft with SW skins. Sorry. I predict it will be very successful because of that.

     

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by MindTrigger


    Originally posted by Eir_S


    Originally posted by lizardbones


    Mobs exist so you can kill them. Why does it matter what they're doing when you're not killing them? If you're not doing something that's part of your story line or a mission, you won't even see them.
    SWTOR: Immersion unleashed.....  
    Honestly, I've been trying not to get involved regarding the little back and forths going on about how brilliant/disappointing this game is, but if what you said is how people actually feel, they kind of deserve a flat experience.  That whole sentence reaks of MMO fail.  Themeparks away!

    That's the deal with this game right now.  You're hearing the lovers of it say "we didn't need that feature anyway, and 99% of gamers don't care about it".   So basically what they are saying is exactly what I said in the OP.  The game is a sterile mmo experience where VO quests were used to spice up otherwise boring (in my opinion) gameplay and world.  The world, the atmosphere, the details that immerse you deeply into the story, is non-existant.    Now I know some people will argue that last sentence, and all I can say to that is good on you, if you are cool with the way this game looks and feels.  For me, compared to much, much older games, it is dead and lifeless.  Hell, even Rift feels more alive than this one to me and I find Rift to be general boring as well.
    What can one expect when the Bioware devs basically came out a few months back and started using language like "WoW is a touchstone" to describe their $120m brand new Star Wars game. 


    Should have read the rest of my post. There is plenty of stuff in the atmosphere, outside of what mobs you're supposed to kill are doing when you're not killing them or even seeing them.

    Even considering just the mobs you're supposed to kill; near the areas where you would actually just be sitting there looking at mobs*, they are doing stuff. Granted, it's usually a fire fight between the mobs you're supposed to kill and the people you're supposed to help, but they aren't just standing there. If you do kill them, reinforcements arrive; they don't just spawn out of the aether.

    * This would be near quest givers or vendors...places where you'd actually hang out.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,908Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Hatewall

    Nothing to click on, pick up, or interact with. No animals, bugs, fish. No plants to pick, minerals to collect. No ambient sounds. Nothing at all.

    Wha?!?!

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by Eir_S

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    For all of their money and talent, Bioware/EA are still just mortal men/women and don't have unlimited funds.

    I expect better!!!  I am consumer!!!

    While that is your right and priveledge, as a consumer you must know that very few things ever live up to our expectations.

    There exists nothing made by man that is without flaw because man himself is not without flaw.

     

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member

    My one hope is that whether or not TOR reshapes the MMO economy/industry/etc., Bioware learns enough about making them (the game and its "life and soul" should be improved with patches within months I expect) to create something more than just someone else's ideas, and do something like a Mass Effect MMO.  I'd actually be more interested in it than a SW themed game since it's something I haven't seen my entire life already.

    Unfortunately, everyone couldn't play as Commander Shepard..

  • 8BitAvatar8BitAvatar Frozen Tundra, WIPosts: 196Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Eir_S


    Originally posted by BadSpock

    For all of their money and talent, Bioware/EA are still just mortal men/women and don't have unlimited funds.

    I expect better!!!  I am consumer!!!

    While that is your right and priveledge, as a consumer you must know that very few things ever live up to our expectations.

    There exists nothing made by man that is without flaw because man himself is not without flaw.

     

    Sliced bread? ;)

  • HatewallHatewall Cumming, GAPosts: 120Member

    I only did beta this weekend and was mostly in starter areas. Part of what I am saying is that I assume there is much more than what I saw in the final game. I really hope so.

    I am going to buy it and play.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Hatewall
    I only did beta this weekend and was mostly in starter areas. Part of what I am saying is that I assume there is much more than what I saw in the final game. I really hope so.


    The starter areas are underwhelming. They are interesting and probably better than WoW...but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are great. In fact, I think the starter areas need work to be less confusing and more of an introduction to SW:ToR and not an introduction to mmos in general. I'm not sure how I would change it...I just know something should be done there.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,908Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by Hatewall



    Nothing to click on, pick up, or interact with. No animals, bugs, fish. No plants to pick, minerals to collect. No ambient sounds. Nothing at all.

    Wha?!?!

    Must have had the power-gamer "must level faster!" tunnel vision and didn't see the forest for the trees, so to speak.

    Plenty of ambience and everything Hatewall mentioned (except the fish) is in there.

    Yeah, some things are done differently like nodes which could explain missing them, but you'd think the pop up you see saying what skill is needed to extract the goods would hint that it's a resource/slicing etc... node.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • sanosukexsanosukex Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,836Member

    Originally posted by Hatewall

    I only did beta this weekend and was mostly in starter areas. Part of what I am saying is that I assume there is much more than what I saw in the final game. I really hope so.

    I am going to buy it and play.

    iv'e played in  probably 50+ final stress tests for mmo's(pay and free) I never palyed in one that anything was really changed at all upon release. What you saw this beta is what you can expect at launch(expect maybe few graphical tweaks like AA and such and of course some bug fixes)

  • starstar Seattle, WAPosts: 1,101Member

    This has been bothering me since I logged off yesterday. Maybe it's just Corusant and the starter planets (and maybe it improves past them) but the worlds do just feel dead. Just mobs standing in crowds waiting to be mowed down. You'll be lucky if there's a pat, but they are few and far between. The ambient dialogue between NPCs is a nice flair, but it's too few and far between for my liking.

     

    Agree 100% with the OP, and still on the fence about preordering.

    edit: apparently we were playing an old build (like, from September), so it's possible these concerns have been addressed already. I can only hope.

    image

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