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why doesnt Darkfall satisfy the crowd that want a Elder Scroll MMO?

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  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    For me: Never ended up trying Darkfall as I couldn't get past the character art and animations, though I love the concept.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    Now i paly Darfall adn really enjoy itm and yeah maybe they could do a shit laod of things better... i realyl wish they would :)

    But i dont think Skyrim as it is would fit into an MMORPG like many have said so many mechanics would just flat out not work..

    Darkfalls combat is nothing like Skyrim is fast pased more like an FPS style game.

     

    Just going by combat i would say the closest to Skyrim would be Mortal Online... but sadly  the MO developers are even worse than the Darkfall ones LOL..

  • cheyanecheyane Rome Posts: 3,002Member Uncommon

    Never actually tried Darkfall and never will but from what I understand from my playing other games with PvP real people behind a toon will just camp you on and on and follow you just because they can. NPCs in a single player game do not have that agenda or that level of devotion to ruining your day. 

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  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

    Darkfall is too shallow, compared to The Elder Scrolls.

    And its far worse made.

    Iam sorry, but everything I do in Skyrim, I can also do in a current gen MMO.  Hey I can even explore,do Dungeons, and ques

    In an MMO you can't be the 'lone hero' who rights wrongs and shapes the world by his actions.  In an MMO if I defeat a boss mob, I know for a fact that during the rest of the day there'll be another six dozen people who will also defeat him... and the boss mob will be there 20 seconds after he's killed anyway.  If I explore the lonely, haunted Barrow Downs, I'll just be one of the thronging crowd also doing likewise and it is lonely and haunted no more - you have to queue up to find a Wight to kill!  In an MMO there is NOTHING I can do to change events or shape the plot of the game.

    MMOs are just whack-a-mole beat-em-ups with a thin veneer of role-play pasted on to them.  I play them for what they are, but not one MMO I've played comes close to The Witcher or the Elder Scrolls games.  Making these games into MMOs would just suck anything worthwhile out of them, destroying what makes them so much more fun than the corrent crop of MMOs.

  • kakasakikakasaki Lockhart, TXPosts: 1,205Member

    Have to agree with Lok...

    What is the purpose of this thread? All the OP seems to be doing is attacking people who are attempting to give an honest answer to his question. Obvious he had an agenda for creating this thread...

    A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member

    Oh my, this thread....

     

     

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Dibdabs

    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

    Darkfall is too shallow, compared to The Elder Scrolls.

    And its far worse made.

    Iam sorry, but everything I do in Skyrim, I can also do in a current gen MMO.  Hey I can even explore,do Dungeons, and ques

    In an MMO you can't be the 'lone hero' who rights wrongs and shapes the world by his actions.  In an MMO if I defeat a boss mob, I know for a fact that during the rest of the day there'll be another six dozen people who will also defeat him... and the boss mob will be there 20 seconds after he's killed anyway.  If I explore the lonely, haunted Barrow Downs, I'll just be one of the thronging crowd also doing likewise and it is lonely and haunted no more - you have to queue up to find a Wight to kill!  In an MMO there is NOTHING I can do to change events or shape the plot of the game.

    MMOs are just whack-a-mole beat-em-ups with a thin veneer of role-play pasted on to them.  I play them for what they are, but not one MMO I've played comes close to The Witcher or the Elder Scrolls games.  Making these games into MMOs would just suck anything worthwhile out of them, destroying what makes them so much more fun than the corrent crop of MMOs.

    well you can create your own story. nothing stops people from doing that in many MMO that dont even have a lore foundation

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  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by cheyane

    Never actually tried Darkfall and never will but from what I understand from my playing other games with PvP real people behind a toon will just camp you on and on and follow you just because they can. NPCs in a single player game do not have that agenda or that level of devotion to ruining your day. 

    what cheyane said.

     

    also, in the elder scrolls games, your character is a central, pivotal character in the story.  in a typical sandbox your character is a regular guy, or in the case of a game like eve, an elite member of the society, but just a regular guy among that elite.

     

    also,  it's a critical part of the elder scrolls games that, if your character decides to do something, it's permament.  MMO worlds are called "persistant worlds" but they are not tTHAT persistant.

     

    also, OP is a troll.

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  • solarinesolarine IstanbulPosts: 1,203Member

    First, I'm of the mind that an Elder Scrolls MMO which works like a massively multiplayer Skyrim just wouldn't work. Most of the things that make Skyrim impressive and immersive would be gone.

    FFA PVP in theory may be an intriguing and even potentially immersive feature to have, but the gameplay it creates is the polar opposite of playing a single player Elder Scrolls game. In these games, you play the world, you try impacting the world whereas in a FFA PVP MMO you play other players. The whole thing becomes about other players. Thus you live and die by your playerbase. And sadly, often the players don't act like part of the world, but rather like kids in a schoolyard. The world experience takes a backseat.

    Yes, with "other players" comes competition and it dictates everything. In an Elder Scrolls game, you don't have to powerlevel skills. It's a much more thrilling, rewarding experience if you don't. But in an MMO, most players feel a pressure to "get up there" as fast as possible, which makes the game unenjoyable.

    Also, features don't make a game. Implementation does. And when I tried Darkfall, everything felt off. I didn't like the movement, the animations, the combat... I stepped into Skyrim and even the first half hour felt amazing; whereas when I stepped into Darkfall, sadly I did not enjoy a single thing for hours and hours... I think the difference here is plain old "quality".

     

  • cyress8cyress8 Croatia, VTPosts: 832Member


    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    why doesnt Darkfall satisfy the crowd that want a Elder Scroll MMO?
     
    what is Darkfall lacking as a sandbox, that Skyrim has?
     
    I been seeing a lot of talk about Skyrim here being compared to MMORPG. but what confuses me,,, I dont see anything in Skyrim that isnt alreayd standard in sandbox MMO, let alone themepark MMO as well.
     
    fill me in somebody

    One main reason: Mods. Go look up mods for Morrowind and Oblivion. If I can create mods like that to customize my game in Darkfall. I would be there in a heartbeat, otherwise, Darkfall will never satisfy my TES itch.

    BOOYAKA!

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Jowen

    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by nikoliath


    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    ...

    WAIT

     

    Isnt that the same thing as the Bandits in Skyrim?!

     

    its the same thing!! they kill you without question

    The difference being the intent; single player RPG worlds contain AI that is hostile but not with the intent of searching you out, ganking you, stealing your stuff, camping your corpse and forcing you to concede. Quite the opposite infact, you can recover your defeat by reloading. You can, if YOU choose, come back to that impass at a later time when you are more able to overcome.

     

    Generally speaking, IMO, FFA full loot PVP centric mmorpgs are for those who enjoy raining on people's parade, kicking sandcastles and being "antisocial" in an anonomous manner.

    again thats the same thing as Skyrim..

     

    Thief- "Give me yo shit fool!!!!"



    Player - "Fuc No MotherF-er!!! you can steal this hammer up that boney dark elf ass of yours bitch!!!"



    player and Thief fights



    winner loots

    I like how you compare the intelligence level of griefers with that of a scripted AI.

    they both playing the same role. both want to take your shit.

     

    the bandit doesnt live by morals or rules(laws).

     

    in video games, the gankers are Anonymous and hide behind a PC. so they also dont have morals nor rules against not attacking players.

    image

  • MMOtoGOMMOtoGO Freeland, MIPosts: 630Member

    The actual game has nothing do to with why I haven't and won't play Darkfall.  I have no desire to deal with griefers.  I'm fine with PvP, but not with the unrelenting spew of people who play DF for the pure enjoyment of destroying other's enjoyment.  

  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

    Darkfall is too shallow, compared to The Elder Scrolls.

    And its far worse made.

    Iam sorry, but everything I do in Skyrim, I can also do in a current gen MMO.  Hey I can even explore,do Dungeons, and quest

     

    in WoW, if I wanted to, just like Skyrim.

     

    so please, explain to me, how a Skyrim/ES MMO would be any different

    Before we answer that, have you even played Skyrim yet?  You could at least play the game and see if you like it or not before trying to argue about it and the merits of what does it have that MMOs don't. 

    image
  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by nikoliath


    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by bobfish

    Whilst the ideal would be FFA PvP and full loot, in a single player game like TES, the AI has rules that it follows and the player is generally always more powerful than those around him/her.

     

    In an MMO with FFA PvP and full loot, the players don't have rules, they drop to the lowest basic instinct of kill and grief. They do as they please with no consequence and it drives people away. Human behaviour just destroys any chance of it being the world that idealists want it to be.

    WAIT

     

    Isnt that the same thing as the Bandits in Skyrim?!

     

    its the same thing!! they kill you without question

    The difference being the intent; single player RPG worlds contain AI that is hostile but not with the intent of searching you out, ganking you, stealing your stuff, camping your corpse and forcing you to concede. Quite the opposite infact, you can recover your defeat by reloading. You can, if YOU choose, come back to that impass at a later time when you are more able to overcome.

     

    Generally speaking, IMO, FFA full loot PVP centric mmorpgs are for those who enjoy raining on people's parade, kicking sandcastles and being "antisocial" in an anonomous manner.

    again thats the same thing as Skyrim..

     

    Thief- "Give me yo shit fool!!!!"



    Player - "Fuc No MotherF-er!!! you can steal this hammer up that boney dark elf ass of yours bitch!!!"



    player and Thief fights



    winner loots

    Actually, isn't your scenario there more in line with Saint's Row and no Skyrim?  If the bandits talked like that in Skryim, I wouldn't be playing it.

    image
  • OmaliOmali MMO Business Correspondent Orchard Park, NYPosts: 1,114Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Iam sorry, but everything I do in Skyrim, I can also do in a current gen MMO.  Hey I can even explore,do Dungeons, and quest 

    in WoW, if I wanted to, just like Skyrim.

     

    so please, explain to me, how a Skyrim/ES MMO would be any different

    Your comparison of WoW and Skyrim tells me you have not played Skyrim, or any of the other Elder Scrolls games (or if you did, you just blazed through a few of the quests without giving any of the rest of the game a thought)

    Check out my monthly column on MMORPG.com.

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by elocke

    Originally posted by MMOExposed


    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

    Darkfall is too shallow, compared to The Elder Scrolls.

    And its far worse made.

    Iam sorry, but everything I do in Skyrim, I can also do in a current gen MMO.  Hey I can even explore,do Dungeons, and quest

     

    in WoW, if I wanted to, just like Skyrim.

     

    so please, explain to me, how a Skyrim/ES MMO would be any different

    Before we answer that, have you even played Skyrim yet?  You could at least play the game and see if you like it or not before trying to argue about it and the merits of what does it have that MMOs don't. 

    Yes. I played Oblivion, and that wore off. also playing Skyrim.



    again, that will wear off like Oblivion fame did.



    looking at Skyrim, and Oblivion, they seem to be very similar to me. They changed a few things here and there with the combat, but its still the same old thing at the core, with a little better paint on top.



    Dungeons in Skyrim are just a dull as Oblivion were once the hype dies down.



    so what that a few Giants 1shot in the world. just walk around them like most people already do.



    again, exploration is nothing NEW to a MMORPG!



    large worlds are standard to MMORPG. I guess thats why people assume that ES's large open worlds is something new to add to MMORPG games.

    yet Vanguard also has a Large world, but nobody say anything about that,,, see.



    also people call Skyrim a Sandbox right? yet it has Quest. Quest are everywhere, just like traditional MMO already have.



    if you chose not to do quest in Skyrim, than what are you doing? Perhaps exploring and clearing out Dungeons, like I did from start.



    well why cant I do the same thing in a MMO. I even compared those actions to WoW, one of the popular known "Themepark" mmo. In WoW, I can also explore, and do dungeons as I like to. I simply choose not to. But again, whats stopping players from doing that same thing in current MMORPGs? how would that be something new to the genre from a ES MMO?



    also people seem to forget that ES world has reasons for looting, which would translate over to PvP FFA Full Looting in Massively Multiplayer terms, because you a bound to run into a jerk ganker on the net. And it fits right in on Elder Scroll's theme.

    image

  • honourswordhonoursword MarsPosts: 82Member

    I think an Elder Scrolls MMO is definately possible, it would unfortunately require huge resources and time to make it worthy of the Elder Scrolls title.

    Darkfall unfortunately simply didn't have the resources to make the game what we truelly wanted, that in conjuction with some design mistakes is what has kept me away from it.

    So how would an Elder Scrolls MMO work? First off, anything is possible with proper thought, testing and tons of time and money. So anyone saying that an Elder Scrolls MMO would never work is simply Wrong!!!

    It is how it is designed and developed is what will make or break any game.

    So how would we solve some of the things?

    Persistant world

    This is a must in any MMORPG. The game would need to keep moving and keep changing, random events need to be exactly that (random). They need to happen but in different locations and different times and effect different people throughout the world.

    Killing a character and then they come back

    A simple character generation engine perhaps could cover this. If you kill Mr David Cameron for example to complete a quest or just for the fun of it then a new character needs to spawn with new features, new name, new clothes etc... and not necessarily be a requirement of that quest but of other quests perhaps. They may not spawn in the same location but elsewhere within the world.

    Repeatable quests

    As mentioned before, quests need to be dynamic and move about the gaming world and never be the same. If I enter a house in Westfall and speak to meet Mrs Queen of the world and complete a quest for her. That quest should be gone, and the quest generator should then add a new one to someone else, somewhere else within the world.

    The World

    Needs to be massive, absolutely huge to fill the different NCP's.

    Where do we fit in?

    All players start at unique locations throughout the world, not in the same place. They start the game with an NCP spawning explaining the controls and what they can do and provide directions to the nearest settlement. Then they disappear. This would be the only phasing element of the game. Other players would not see the NPC.

    What about the story?

    The story and it's quest will all be part of the game but not the dominant part of it, it would be an element that players can enjoy but wouldn't be the sole area that players can enjoy.

    What about me?

    Each player will have sort of a chronicles and it catalogues the character type, personality, acheivements, etc...

    What about greiving?

    Killing a player within a city will get you arrested and subject to a large fine, since money is the only thing people really care about in game a hefty fine should deter people.

    Outside of the city, if players are grived they can report them to guards or place a bounty on there head for other players to pick up. They would also take a reputation hit with the law enforcement for that city, thus if they do it too many times, there rep will be too bad and guards will attack them regardless.

    Gear

    Important but not as important as other MMO's, gear should give you some benefits but shouldnt be the battle decider.

    Levels

    Gone, don't exist.

    Skills

    Each character has skill sets and these build up over time the more you do something. However, these only give you an advantage, if someone with 100 skills in heavy armour, dressed in elite gear gets stabbed in the head by a new player just starting. They die!!!

    No health!!

    Controversial but the health bar is gone!!! I would go for a more realistic approach, for example, you get stabbed in the arm you dont die but cannot carry a sword in that arm. Healers will heal body areas and cannot do it instantly.

    Forget DPS, Tank and healer

    Not all MMORPG's have to follow this model. This is Elder Scrolls so the combat would work just like in the single player. You could fight like this but perhaps have other options.

    Just a few ideas I have got, sorry part of it went from an Elder Scrolls MMO to my idea of a good MMO but you get the general idea.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,643Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    why doesnt Darkfall satisfy the crowd that want a Elder Scroll MMO?

    fill me in somebody

     

    I don't know about others, but for me I can't stomach PvP communities.

    So many pricks seem to be attracted to that style of game... not saying everyone that plays them are pricks, but they always end up dominating the culture.

    PvP in MMORPGs a a concept is fundamentally flawed anyhow IMO... I will stick to FPS games for that fix. Skyrim is for when I am in a completely different place.

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member

    Both free roaming worlds and free to develop your character as you pleased and not force to follow the quest path you can leave the road as in both games.

    Dungeons in Skyrim almost same as in Oblivion and dull???...are you playing a different game here?

    A themepark is TOTALLY DIFFERNT from what Skyrim as game presents no comparison Mr. mmo(themepark)exposed:P

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  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member

    Originally posted by MMOtoGO

    The actual game has nothing do to with why I haven't and won't play Darkfall.  I have no desire to deal with griefers.  I'm fine with PvP, but not with the unrelenting spew of people who play DF for the pure enjoyment of destroying other's enjoyment.  

    This is not true at all ive played 2 years Darkfall and not realy experience this, prolly spread by the well known Darkfall haters and trolls here on forum

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  • SnoepieSnoepie RotterdamPosts: 470Member

    darkfall

    --> you start with nothing.

    --> nothing is explained

    --> no directions

    --> takes time till you are able to pvp proper..

    --> most of the trials uninstall the game within 3 hours because if above mentioned

    --> got killed? lots all loot.. rage quit?! espeically when you just start and have 4 pieces of armor.

    --> the start is just to hard for people

     

    Skyrim..

    --> hmm single player? nuff said i think. ( ow wait no pvp?)

     

    And yes i am a long term darkfall player..

     

    Edit: Forgot something.

     

    imo darkfall is best skilled pvp mmo out there..

    av is worst game company ever

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member

    Originally posted by Snoepie

    av is worst game company ever

    Mork calling Star Vault, come in Star Vault.

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  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member

    Originally posted by forest-nl

    Both free roaming worlds and free to develop your character as you pleased and not force to follow the quest path you can leave the road as in both games.

    Dungeons in Skyrim almost same as in Oblivion and dull???...are you playing a different game here?

    A themepark is TOTALLY DIFFERNT from what Skyrim as game presents no comparison Mr. mmo(themepark)exposed:P

    No it isnt. Have you actually played video games?

     

    Oblivion played a lot like Everquest, or any other open world themepark. Huge open world with plenty of PVE content. Gives some alternate content that can be done as well.

     

    SPG sandboxes like ES, Red Dead Redepmtion, and GTA play nothing at all like a MMO sandbox. You dont play Uncle Owen to win the game in them, and you sure as hell dont have to produce your own content as plenty of it is provided.

     

    The reason they are called "sandboxes" is cause they give a player alternate content, but in no way/shape/form do you progress thru to the end of the game due to it.  No matter how much a player gets "side tracked", there is always a path to follow whenever the person decides to get back to it. MMO sandboxes provide no path.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • KroxMalonKroxMalon swindonPosts: 409Member

    To the OP, for me its because the gfx suck imo. If DF2 ever gets released it will be good imo.

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member

    i think mortal online was to be that game, it was such a missed opportunity, their heart is in the right place still with the direction they are gonig but they are terrible at programming and each patch has been buggy as hell, Darkfall was supposed to be the successor to ultima online and failed at that pretty hard thegame that was talked about before release is nothing like the game now.

     

    i also dont consider everquest a sandbox, it was the forfather of theme park mmos, were as UO was the forfather of sandbox games.

     

     

    which ever company manages to make a working mmo version of the elder scrolls (or similar) is going to be a very rich company and probably the biggest rival to WOW in terms of subscriptions. I beleive mmo players are starting to want more from thier mmo experiences and theme parks simply cannot provide it anymore, its about time sandbox mmos were back on top.

     

    after playing skyrim for well over 60 hours already its an amazing game, but there are a few things that annoy me, the first one that jumped straight at me was the melee combat i just felt that mortal onlnie did it better with its directional blocking or something like warband would of been even better.  The constant loading is also very mmo unfriendly which would really prevent it becoming an mmo with same high graphics, also the looting of ragdoll corpses would not translate into an mmo hence why darkfall uses death animations and mo uses lootbags.

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

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