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World of Warcraft: Subscribers Down 800,000 in Q3

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  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly genevaPosts: 734Member

    Payed for Cata expantion like 75$ then 15$ months, done all in 2 weeks, found I've payed for nothing as Cata offered me just new looking world, boring skill and endless wait for join party.

    Without portals world became longuer to explore beside Cata added nothing to do....

     

    I sure left but in hope they will do somethig better to come back, But Fu-Panda looks even more awful and I'll not pay again 75$ for small content pack, they charge too much and fail...

     

    Better play LOTRO for free or 1 of 2 months subs then be bored at WoW IMO

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon

    Maybe they should nerf even a little more druids. I'm sure they will be happy with even lower subs. Otherwise Cata killed my casual interest in engame ... but I was fine with Cata as expansion, impressiver work, love every bit (despite being too linear).

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJPosts: 2,154Member

    Originally posted by Binny45

    I think the math is a little messed up on this.  Please keep in mind that WoW is free from lvl 1 to 20.  All those subscriptions are not bringing in cash.  I would hardly consider these accounts a part of the demographic until they actually start paying cash.






     

    Blizzard doesnt count these as subs...

  • AdamTMAdamTM Frankfurt Am MainPosts: 1,376Member

    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Originally posted by AdamTM

    It can't be ruled out but I find its unlikely. There might be a new spike though, but I do not think that TOR will pull signigicant numbers (significant is 10% of the total active subs, atm ~2 million) of new players that are -retained- (playing longer than a few months).

    You can't really dismiss the possibility either.  Star Wars, Christmas...how many new players does that add up to?

    But Bioware also doesn't have a b.net already running, ready to generate new MMO players by the millions, so no astonishing smash hit of surprising magnitude (like the Behemoth).

    It's a word-of-mouth issue among the teens, I think.  How "cool" the game is, and how talked about in the high school hallways.  And that can go either way, inherently unpredictable.

     

    Thats why I specifically separated -sales- from -subs- both are not equivalent to what i try to say.

    Of course I cant rule out the possibility, but TOR is unlikely to have a high retention rate (aka the ~2 million) in the sense of those people being really "new players" that will go out there and at some point buy other MMOs (else it doesnt really matter how many boxes you sold).

     

    I am predicting a huge success for TOR in the sense of box-sales but a quickly declining and low retention rate. I might correct my estimate that i think TOR will sell around 3-4 million copies worldwide, but these copies are not immediately subs to be counted as "growth" of the industry.

    IMHO we already are past milking the MMO market because the brands are established and are just trading players atm.

     

    Just like theres only so many people playing FPS games, there are only so many people willing to play MMORPGs. What you would need is a game like Halo was for FSP on console, just for the MMO industry, but that already happened, and its called WoW.

    WoW was the game-changer in 2005 that opened the market to a wider audience, the next step that significantly opens the market for MMORPGs would need to be something equally massive in the sense of metrics. Looking at GW2 and TOR neither game can deliver these.

     

    The only untapped market left is the casuals that are sitting on facebook OR the casuals sitting on consoles.

     

    Edit: When I'm talking about retention rate I am not talking specifically TOR subs over 2 or 12 months, I'm talking about the people comming into the MMO-fold for the first time and going 

    "Hey, I didn't know MMORPGs are fun!!"

    Quasi a conversion mechanic like there was with WoW where before MMOs were sort of seen as tedious, and needed significant investment of time to play where WoW made it "casual". Or with Halo where shooters on console were pretty much a niche-market due to their mechanics and controls.

    image
  • popinjaypopinjay Northeast, PAPosts: 6,539Member


    Originally posted by Alalala
    For any business, that's an astoundingly negative referendum on your company's product and direction.
    Not true.

    For any mmo (not any business), that is a totally different thing. Losing 1/6 people is nothing in terms of the mmo genre, lol. Even a game like APB if it lost 1 out of 6 players, that's nothing substantial.


    Now having over 10 million customers is the key. Most mmos don't seem to keep players over one year's time and struggle to hit 300k so this is still a pretty remarkable thing.

    Given that Blizzard still has to release in the giant market called China (and no one else is even close to doing that), I think a lot of these worries are pretty baseless in nature.

  • Fessor111Fessor111 AalborgPosts: 33Member

    I hope they are moving on to some wow clone. Im kinder sad about WoW losing subs because I don't need people from that community in my mmo's (Really mean that, no trolling). I dont care if my game have 1 or 150 servers because there is a limit on players to enter anyway. Sure the company don't make as much money but they will listen and do better to keep the costumers.

    Zoos the Slacker

  • popinjaypopinjay Northeast, PAPosts: 6,539Member


    Originally posted by Fessor111
    Im kinder sad about WoW losing subs because I don't need people from that community in my mmo's (Really mean that, no trolling).

    Just checked the mmos you play:

    1. FFXI. Definitely no chance of a major ex-WoW player invasion.

    2. Darkfall. This game isn't in danger of anyone invading it, much less WoW players.

    3. EQ1. Nope. Same as Darkfall.

    I think you're pretty safe.


  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Originally posted by popinjay

    Now having over 10 million customers is the key. Most mmos don't seem to keep players over one year's time and struggle to hit 300k so this is still a pretty remarkable thing.

     

    Now losing the argumentum ad numerum power of Big Numbers of Subs in Other Countries is going to put a hurt in the standard forum arguments, though.

    It'll actually be refreshing after the last eight years.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • Fessor111Fessor111 AalborgPosts: 33Member

    Its my favorite games not the only ones I play, but i sure your rigth they won't join those (Well maybe DF 2.0 I hope not hehe)

    Zoos the Slacker

  • popinjaypopinjay Northeast, PAPosts: 6,539Member


    Originally posted by Icewhite


    Originally posted by popinjay

    Now having over 10 million customers is the key. Most mmos don't seem to keep players over one year's time and struggle to hit 300k so this is still a pretty remarkable thing.


     
    Now losing the argumentum ad numerum power of Big Numbers of Subs in Other Countries is going to put a hurt in the standard forum arguments, though.
    It'll actually be refreshing after the last eight years.

    Actually, that's part of the argument. Non-serious people look at a one day or week stock price and go "See? It's happening!" lol. That isn't how the market works at all, nor is it how games go.

    Even if Blizzard announced tomorrow "We lost 5 million subs", people would still be shouting their doom, even though the games they play still can't get one-tenth of that new "fail" number.

    So yeah, Pandas opening in China (and the US/EU soon) will make a difference, if not to anything else, you'll probably see some WoW fanboi post "WoW releases MoP; stock prices soar!" and then you'll be stealing my argument now.

  • nuttobnuttob Plantation, FLPosts: 291Member

    F2P and the game becoming old I think is the main reason.  I will never go back to WOW mainly because of all the F2P games out there.  I for one will never sub for a game again.

  • ComputerJuiceComputerJuice Portland, ORPosts: 17Member

    Honestly, I believe its simply that Ghostcrawler needs to go.  Yes the game is stale, yes the game is old.  However the only real thing that changed is who's leading the dev team.  The game could be fun despite its age. Unfortunately, they put a self righteous jerk in charge who seeming cant pull his head out. What I find most interesting is that they genuinely seem surprised that he's (they) lost over a mil subs.  I would have thought that Activizzard would have canned his sorry a** when the first 500k left.  The guy makes piss poor decisions and has done ZERO to revitialize the game, infact seemingly he's pushing for its demise. Either that or he just doesnt know what hes doing and is too proud to admit it.

    Just my opinion.

  • DrDreamDrDream Mill Hall, PAPosts: 163Member

    Things that killed WoW for me.

    1. World Re-worked (i loved the old world)

    2. The stat changes

    3.To much HP if that makes sense. 100-200k hp sure it sounds cool but imo is just fking stupid.

    4.Talent tree re-worked

    5. Empty world no exploration left.

    I could go on but whats the point. WoW is hitting its experation date. I think theyd been better off stetching BC and WOTLK out and just pumped out more content one thing that i think might have helped would be bigger continents they didnt have enugh room to work but thats just me.

    image

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon

    A lot of WoW's troubles puzzle me as I'm sure they puzzle Blizzard.  Essentially, WoW is no different than Everquest at this point in its life cycle, yet EQ's fanbase is largely happy with the game.  It would appear that WoW's more casual fanbase doesn't take as well to the endless gear grinding and raiding.

  • DirkzenDirkzen New Castle, INPosts: 144Member

    Oh calm down.

    That was just them shedding a few gold farmers and spambots.

    I wouldn't start raising an eyebrow or worrying until they start getting into the single digits.

     

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DrDream

    Things that killed WoW for me.

    1. World Re-worked (i loved the old world)

    2. The stat changes

    3.To much HP if that makes sense. 100-200k hp sure it sounds cool but imo is just fking stupid.

    4.Talent tree re-worked

    5. Empty world no exploration left.

    I could go on but whats the point. WoW is hitting its experation date. I think theyd been better off stetching BC and WOTLK out and just pumped out more content one thing that i think might have helped would be bigger continents they didnt have enugh room to work but thats just me.




     

    Agree on all but 1, loved old world ... but love even more cataclismic event that changed it. Impressive job they did. I would add insane constant druid nerfings. They messed terribly wrong with end game as goes for 5 man, I'm not even minimally interested in raiding. To hard, to easy, .... Wotlk was to easy at the end, all fully geared ... but as stands for me would be much better for Cata if they would not listen to vocal minority that wanted "harder".

  • OziiusOziius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,388Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Timacek

    (mod edit)

    I really can't believe this post still has legs. 

     

    This way, all you haters can just get it out all in one big orgasmic post. No one cares why you left the game. We're just happy you did. Actually, right after you left, DPS was getting instaque to Dungeons and and the Horde and Alliance got together for a picnic. 

     

    Point is... it doesn't matter what anyone here thinks and the impending WoW doom that I have been hearing about since 2005. I will keep playing until I personally am no longer having fun. However, unlike most of you, when I do decide to quit, I'm not going to think it sucks, just that I have outgrown my fun times with it. I don't need to hate a game to not play it......Whydo people feel the need to come here and badmouth a game cause they are finished with it? Moreover, why do they feel like they need to convince others their decision was justified? Your post aren't going to keep people from trying it..make them quit it, or anything else. So just move on. 

  • ooblaoobla londonPosts: 87Member

    Originally posted by Cecropia

    After observing how long the numbers hovered around the 11.5 million mark, I figured the king was going to begin it's inevitable descent in the not so distant future.

    Where's Zorndorf when you need him dammit. He could use a nice hot cup of "told ya so" right about now.

    Ah well, WoW has had a fucking hell of a run, and it should be interesting to see how slowly or quickly the population deflates. Considering some of the ancient relics of the genre that are still alive and kicking, my bet would be on the former.


     

    LoL @ Zorndorf . They probably gave him a ban , goo goo ga joob . :P . All those quotes and links to X-fire and obscure sites . I often wonder what happens to someone like him when a game hes so invested in starts to fail . I can't imagine its a good  . Poor lad .  I somehow think though even he saw the light with MOP and will be in TOR along with everyone else on the planet .

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Dirkzen

    Oh calm down.

    That was just them shedding a few gold farmers and spambots.

    I wouldn't start raising an eyebrow or worrying until they start getting into the single digits.

     

    LOL, just like when rats flee a sinking ship, gold farmers leaving a game is a good sign that its time to leave. image

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • xmentyxmenty SingaporePosts: 679Member

    They will lose more subs because their expansions is all a  WOW clone.

    The Dev are getting too lazy cos all the expansions is mostly the same shit just different skin.

    Maybe that is why the Senior Titan designer laid off by Blizzard.

    Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  • BenthonBenthon Cedar Rapids, IAPosts: 2,069Member

    Hemorraghing hardcore.

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • marinridermarinrider Tomball, TXPosts: 1,556Member

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by Dirkzen

    Oh calm down.

    That was just them shedding a few gold farmers and spambots.

    I wouldn't start raising an eyebrow or worrying until they start getting into the single digits.

     

    LOL, just like when rats flee a sinking ship, gold farmers leaving a game is a good sign that its time to leave. image

    And when you think about it, if there were 800,000 gold sellers, then I can't even imagine how inflated WoW's numbers are because there are bound to be more.  

    The gold sellers are still in Warhammer, they will still be in WoW until they are the only ones in chat.

  • mugengaiamugengaia Vienna, VAPosts: 347Member

    WoW hasn't been WoW since Activision became their big dog, neither does Diablo 3 seem like something Blizzard would have done before the merger. 

    It comes as no surprise, but it's evident what kind of failing direction Blizzard is following similar to how Infinity Ward is ending up right now. 

    Core top guys get fired/leave Infinity Ward under the direction of Activision, and you can't help but wonder if those guys were still there, would Infinity Ward have released MW3 as a recycled MW2 with the exact same 4.0 IW Engine, albeit little tweaks in details.

    Several changes in how Blizzard is implementing new things, such as premium mounts, ingame RMT system for Diablo 3 seem to indicate declining "old" Blizzard mentality.

    For one, I specifically remember Mike Morhaim stating he is completely against RMT, but seems to me he's making an exception for it with Diablo 3.  I don't know if Mike Morhaim has changed, or it's Activision putting pressure on Blizzard, but the direction Blizzard is taking in recent years, certaintly don't reflect the type of mentality they had in the 90s and early 2000s.

    At this point, Diablo 3 doesn't seem like it will live up to the hype from how successful Diablo 2 was, WoW will slowly decline, maybe even decline faster than expected if Blizzard continues to neglect playerbase, and Titan, I doubt will be as big, or even come close to WoW in terms of subscriptions. 

    GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month?
    Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools?
    MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!

  • DevianeDeviane MTYPosts: 106Member

    lol i wonder if  wow  would recovr from all the hate of the pandas they will implement....i was thinking it was a april fools  joke...but was on oct. lols someone kill wow already (yeah i know 10kk is stills allot and  wow will need  some years to really "die" )

  • tupodawg999tupodawg999 LondonPosts: 724Member Uncommon

    "Casual players like the variety of activites to play around with, keep raiding focused on mostly hard core players and devote more resources to giving casuals other fun activities to entertain themselves."

    Agree. They've been trying to target a generic player when there isn't a generic player. In particular there's not just casuals and hardcores there's a third group who have the hardcore mentality but don't have the TIME. I think Blizzard (and other game companies in the past) see complaints from this group about speeding up levelling and making raiding more accessible and they think this is what casuals want but it's not. It's what the third group want because they want to be hardcore but don't have the TIME. Trivializing the levelling and the raiding to suit the timepoor hardcores messes up the game for botht he casuals and the hardcores.

    Blizzard need to find a way to give the timepoor hardcores a way to level faster than casuals** and then tuck in behind the hardcore raiders. They won't like not being able to be the best on the server but if they have better getter than all the casuals that will keep them 3/4 happy.

    **or at least give endgamers in general, whether pvp or raider, the option of creating new max level chars after the first one so they stop moaning about levelling.



     

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