PvP is Player vs Player. Inherent to that is the structure of testing the skills of player A against those of player B. It is a contest of PLAYER skills. So ganking noobs is NOT PvP.
It is slighly different in an RPG of course by nature of the character skills also having to be taken into account. But by it's nature an RPG PvP'er should also have more motivation then simply PvP for the sake of it. That is why you have games specifically designed for PvP without the need to justify your actions (BF, COD, TF etc...).
There is nothing wrong with, as some people have stated in this thread, using PvP in the contect of the structure of the game to kill an 'enemy' but anyone who does so repeatedly just for the sake of PvP is not playing the right game for them. I view people engaging in PVP (in RPG games) with the goal of promoting some part of the game such as teritorial control as a valued part of the game. But people who just engage in repeated ganking are, in my opinion, stupid beyond belief because they don't understand the game or simply just being an a-hole because they can get away with it.
Either way, they are the ones responsible for making big game companies shy away from FFA PvP without restrictions so it would be best if everyone made them leave the game. Both the avid PvP'er and roleplayer should realise who these people are and shun them. Perhaps then we can have developers take the time to make the games we want without having to remove things to combat the minority who always ruin such games.
Ganking newbies is NOT fun at all.. in fact it's a sign of a coward who can't fight toe to toe against someone his own size. In fact I felt guilty for killing newbies/lower levels when they attack me and i have to defend myself.
Let me get this straight. A player starts a PvP game, gets killed, emo rages, then starts a forum thread calling into question the mental status and manhood of the player who killed him. Am I right so far?
Have you ever stepped back for a moment and see how silly this sounds. If it bothers you that much maybe you need another hobby.
When you are new to a competitive game (not just video games), you are going to lose, a lot! Stop expecting veteran players to show you mercy or treat you with kid gloves. Man up!
if reading a forum bother you that much you shouldn't read
but I guess the main problem here is not the pvp fact one, is someone leave a high lvl area to a low lvl area just to kill all players there, its diferent from a high lvl player running pass a map and see a enemy guild member or faction and kill him then leaves.
Reading the forums doesn't bother me at all. Like I said, I think the replies are hysterical in their lame attempt to find some type of correlation between killing pixels and a players mental status.
From now on when I lose at chess I am going to accuse the person who beat me of being a sociopath for killing a royal family. Also they should've let me win (or not played at all) because I was less experienced and/or not as good of a player. I also demand a trophy just for playing otherwise it will hurt my delicate and special feelings.
i had to reply/quote this guy didnt read the rest of the posts under this
this topic is not about when you lose at chess to call the person who beat you a sociopath. but instead, having deep blue compete in a 10 years and under chess tournament. and give the 50$ prize money to IBM...
this is what the issue is.
honestly i play lots of FFA PVP games, and i dont waste my time with new guys... i simply ignore them or help them out by "accidently" droping my bag of gold onthe floor that i consider pocket change (but for him its a fortune), i have whole alliances and territory to claim and go to war with 1/2 the server, i dont have time to kill defenceless noobs, the worst ill do is recruit them into my side and use them as meat shields... meat shields that i finance lol, so in the end they get raped and muredered more times that they can count... but at the end of the day, 2 things happen. they had the best time of their lives (as short as it may be) but in a few months/weeks ill have someone with experience with these kinds of fights and might save my ass one day (true story btw)
people who gank noobs are just cowards and bullies that take pleasure in someone else's suffering... and im pretty sure that is a mental illness.
You know, you are right on one point, the replies in threads like this are hysterical. It is amusing watching the anti-social gankers trying to rationalize their deviant behavior.
So now anyone who kills a low level player is not only a sociopath, they are also anti-social and a deviant.
I've been playing Eve for almost 3 years now. I'm a low sec pirate who tries to kill anyone who enters my home system whether they've been playing for 5 years or 5 minutes. The alliance I belong to has about 120 players. How does that equate to being anti-social? I don't see what is "deviant" about kiling other players in a FFA PvP game. In my experience it's the carebears who are anti-social, they insist on playing solo and make forum posts demanding CCP change the game mechanics when they die to a fleet of 20 pirates.
There are so few FFA PvP MMO's on the market why do so many players insist on playing them then complain when you get killed by a high level player?
see this is fine, you kill anything, regardless of veteran or rookie ship. but you dont go to starter systems and kill only the players with less than 3million SP for shits and giggles,
inyour case new players should not be wandering in low sec, tough for they, they should not be there to begin with, they should be in their starter system doing their tutorials.
now someone purposely going to the tutorial zone to gank them... thats just beign coward
I dont think gankers (much like people who cheat in online games) realise why they actually gank newbs, not on a concious level anyway.
I think they do it because on a subconcious level it makes them feel better about their sad little lives in the real world where they are working dead end jobs, being bullied, living in their moms basement, unable to get a girlfriend and basically victims of their own inadequacies.
Sure the average ganker or game cheat will claim to be doing it because its fun, really they say that because its easier than admitting they have personal issues.
Naturally they will deny any of what I typed is true......
Let me get this straight. A player starts a PvP game, gets killed, emo rages, then starts a forum thread calling into question the mental status and manhood of the player who killed him. Am I right so far?
Have you ever stepped back for a moment and see how silly this sounds. If it bothers you that much maybe you need another hobby.
When you are new to a competitive game (not just video games), you are going to lose, a lot! Stop expecting veteran players to show you mercy or treat you with kid gloves. Man up!
if reading a forum bother you that much you shouldn't read
but I guess the main problem here is not the pvp fact one, is someone leave a high lvl area to a low lvl area just to kill all players there, its diferent from a high lvl player running pass a map and see a enemy guild member or faction and kill him then leaves.
Reading the forums doesn't bother me at all. Like I said, I think the replies are hysterical in their lame attempt to find some type of correlation between killing pixels and a players mental status.
From now on when I lose at chess I am going to accuse the person who beat me of being a sociopath for killing a royal family. Also they should've let me win (or not played at all) because I was less experienced and/or not as good of a player. I also demand a trophy just for playing otherwise it will hurt my delicate and special feelings.
You really need to work on your reading comprehension. This isn't about losing to someone more skilled than you. Or even one-off trouncings by a high-level player.
It's about certain individuals taking perverse pleasure in ruining another player's gaming experience. The level 50 player runing around corpse-camping level 10 players. Repeatedly (did I stress that enough?) killing characters that have zero chance of winning.
I have zero issues with losing to someone more skilled than me...it happes frequently. I do have a problem not being able to get past level 10 because some douchebag level 50 is ganking me over and over...in a game I am paying a monthly fee to play no less.
I just worry that people who find it fun to corpse camp new players will breed. Normally I'm against eugenics programs of all kinds, but in this one case and one case only, I'm for sterilization and close monitoring. If you truly get off on imaging your helpless opponent foaming at the mouth after repeat teabaggins, you need to be removed from the gene pool and you'll probably end up in jail sooner or later.
Okay, I'm not quite that worried, but seriously, what kind of person actually does find that fun? I guarantee it's not someone I would want to spend time around, in game or in real life.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
These threads are pure comedy gold. Let me get this straight. A player starts a PvP game, gets killed, emo rages, then starts a forum thread calling into question the mental status and manhood of the player who killed him. Am I right so far? Have you ever stepped back for a moment and see how silly this sounds. If it bothers you that much maybe you need another hobby. When you are new to a competitive game (not just video games), you are going to lose, a lot! Stop expecting veteran players to show you mercy or treat you with kid gloves. Man up!
if reading a forum bother you that much you shouldn't read
but I guess the main problem here is not the pvp fact one, is someone leave a high lvl area to a low lvl area just to kill all players there, its diferent from a high lvl player running pass a map and see a enemy guild member or faction and kill him then leaves.
Reading the forums doesn't bother me at all. Like I said, I think the replies are hysterical in their lame attempt to find some type of correlation between killing pixels and a players mental status.
From now on when I lose at chess I am going to accuse the person who beat me of being a sociopath for killing a royal family. Also they should've let me win (or not played at all) because I was less experienced and/or not as good of a player. I also demand a trophy just for playing otherwise it will hurt my delicate and special feelings.
This would be one the guys that cries carebare. I'm all for PvP, shit EVE is probably one of the most unforgiving PvP titles to date. What we are talking about although beyond your comprehension does hold water. It's almost in line with online bullying. Facebook and MySpace mania.
Are you saying these don't genuinely exist? I'm pretty sure they do and PvP in MMO's gives them another avenue to express their lowly esteemed rage on others... LoL sad but true.
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
Originally posted by dave6660 Also everybody else is paying their monthly fee too. As long as they are not cheating then their play style is just as valid as yours. If you want to play a FFA PvP game then killing noobs will happen. Learn to deal with it or don't play.
And this is why I will never, ever play an open PvP game. There are far too many players who find enjoyment out of griefing others that such a system is not fun at all for me.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Also everybody else is paying their monthly fee too. As long as they are not cheating then their play style is just as valid as yours. If you want to play a FFA PvP game then killing noobs will happen. Learn to deal with it or don't play.
And this is why I will never, ever play an open PvP game. There are far too many players who find enjoyment out of griefing others that such a system is not fun at all for me.
Sounds like you plan on being a newbie forever....
Originally posted by bossalinie Originally posted by AlBQuirky
Originally posted by dave6660 Also everybody else is paying their monthly fee too. As long as they are not cheating then their play style is just as valid as yours. If you want to play a FFA PvP game then killing noobs will happen. Learn to deal with it or don't play.
And this is why I will never, ever play an open PvP game. There are far too many players who find enjoyment out of griefing others that such a system is not fun at all for me.
Sounds like you plan on being a newbie forever.... I guess so, by your definition. lol Good thing I don't play games for your approval of me.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
players that can't win 1v1 in a fair battle like to gank lowbies or twink low level characters. They are the sociopaths of MMOs.
screw that 1v1 fair battle
i want that castle and ill beat the shit out of whichever alliance is inside it. i wont bother with that lonely noobie killing baby wolves, he has nothing to offer me...other than recruiting him and using him as a meat shield...
if i am to waste my time killing someone, it better be someone worth killing, you know the rich guy who bought all his money through gold farmers... and doesnt know how to play his lvl 99 toon (which he probably bought from ebay)
yeah those are the juicy targets
not the 1 day old guy who has 4 copper and a wooden sword...
players that can't win 1v1 in a fair battle like to gank lowbies or twink low level characters. They are the sociopaths of MMOs.
screw that 1v1 fair battle
i want that castle and ill beat the shit out of whichever alliance is inside it. i wont bother with that lonely noobie killing baby wolves, he has nothing to offer me...other than recruiting him and using him as a meat shield...
if i am to waste my time killing someone, it better be someone worth killing, you know the rich guy who bought all his money through gold farmers... and doesnt know how to play his lvl 99 toon (which he probably bought from ebay)
yeah those are the juicy targets
not the 1 day old guy who has 4 copper and a wooden sword...
This is good. I'm along the lines of that also, I have many times eyed some lowbie and passed by without a second glance. I know they probably are droppin dueces in the first place when they seem some red with the good ol' Skull and Cross bones for their level. So everything I've would've needed to prove is already done.
Now sometimes these said newbs do try and take on the higer level and that's their business and more power to them. You don't get Sentinels killings Machariels by being some wuss's...LoL, but when this happens in your normal MMORPG then you are alowed to gank them down one good time and move on. Sometimes I might even take to the point of near death just to let them flee off with their sliver of life. That's how people can really get there god-complexes on. I could've taken ya life but I let you live mortal..Blazaayy blah..
The real prizes are those that try to P2W and got their toon off some site and don't know jack about it let alone its history. He could be labled a jackass through out the entire server and now you are unknowlingly walking around with this huge target on ya head that you have no idea about.
Outright seeking noobs and making it your sole purpose to hunt lowbies is just wrong, kinda like two girls and a cup wrong. Minus the cup and replace with said gankers face..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
You know, you are right on one point, the replies in threads like this are hysterical. It is amusing watching the anti-social gankers trying to rationalize their deviant behavior.
So now anyone who kills a low level player is not only a sociopath, they are also anti-social and a deviant.
I've been playing Eve for almost 3 years now. I'm a low sec pirate who tries to kill anyone who enters my home system whether they've been playing for 5 years or 5 minutes. The alliance I belong to has about 120 players. How does that equate to being anti-social? I don't see what is "deviant" about kiling other players in a FFA PvP game. In my experience it's the carebears who are anti-social, they insist on playing solo and make forum posts demanding CCP change the game mechanics when they die to a fleet of 20 pirates.
There are so few FFA PvP MMO's on the market why do so many players insist on playing them then complain when you get killed by a high level player?
Again you fail to comprehend the topic at hand. When a lowbie wanders into low-sec space and you kill him, that is not ganking/griefing.
Another example, if I'm a lvl 20 in WoW Barrens and a lvl 80 rides by and one-shots me then rides on, that is not ganking/griefing. I have no problem getting one-shotted in that situation.
Now, if that lvl 80 stealths nearby and continues to kill me repeatedly while I'm trying to level up...that's the anti-social deviant sociopathic behavior we are talking about here.
I really don't know how to explain it more simply...you seem to be arguing a different topic than we are discussing here...
People get bored and wanna go kill lowbies. Obviously from a business standpoint this is awful. If a new player keeps getting ganked, there's a chance they'll quit. What business would want that? They're eliminating the risk, and it makes perfect sense to me.
Originally posted by Squiggie Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by Squiggie
...
You know, you are right on one point, the replies in threads like this are hysterical. It is amusing watching the anti-social gankers trying to rationalize their deviant behavior. So now anyone who kills a low level player is not only a sociopath, they are also anti-social and a deviant. I've been playing Eve for almost 3 years now. I'm a low sec pirate who tries to kill anyone who enters my home system whether they've been playing for 5 years or 5 minutes. The alliance I belong to has about 120 players. How does that equate to being anti-social? I don't see what is "deviant" about kiling other players in a FFA PvP game. In my experience it's the carebears who are anti-social, they insist on playing solo and make forum posts demanding CCP change the game mechanics when they die to a fleet of 20 pirates. There are so few FFA PvP MMO's on the market why do so many players insist on playing them then complain when you get killed by a high level player? Again you fail to comprehend the topic at hand. When a lowbie wanders into low-sec space and you kill him, that is not ganking/griefing. Another example, if I'm a lvl 20 in WoW Barrens and a lvl 80 rides by and one-shots me then rides on, that is not ganking/griefing. I have no problem getting one-shotted in that situation. Now, if that lvl 80 stealths nearby and continues to kill me repeatedly while I'm trying to level up...that's the anti-social deviant sociopathic behavior we are talking about here. I really don't know how to explain it more simply...you seem to be arguing a different topic than we are discussing here...
So why does the level 80 kill that level 20 in the level 20 area? The level 80 gains nothing and the level 20 learns nothing. It is a pointless activity, so why do they do it? I'm not saying it's wrong or even that it's ok...just why do they do it?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You know, you are right on one point, the replies in threads like this are hysterical. It is amusing watching the anti-social gankers trying to rationalize their deviant behavior.
So now anyone who kills a low level player is not only a sociopath, they are also anti-social and a deviant.
I've been playing Eve for almost 3 years now. I'm a low sec pirate who tries to kill anyone who enters my home system whether they've been playing for 5 years or 5 minutes. The alliance I belong to has about 120 players. How does that equate to being anti-social? I don't see what is "deviant" about kiling other players in a FFA PvP game. In my experience it's the carebears who are anti-social, they insist on playing solo and make forum posts demanding CCP change the game mechanics when they die to a fleet of 20 pirates.
There are so few FFA PvP MMO's on the market why do so many players insist on playing them then complain when you get killed by a high level player?
Again you fail to comprehend the topic at hand. When a lowbie wanders into low-sec space and you kill him, that is not ganking/griefing.
Another example, if I'm a lvl 20 in WoW Barrens and a lvl 80 rides by and one-shots me then rides on, that is not ganking/griefing. I have no problem getting one-shotted in that situation.
Now, if that lvl 80 stealths nearby and continues to kill me repeatedly while I'm trying to level up...that's the anti-social deviant sociopathic behavior we are talking about here.
I really don't know how to explain it more simply...you seem to be arguing a different topic than we are discussing here...
So why does the level 80 kill that level 20 in the level 20 area? The level 80 gains nothing and the level 20 learns nothing. It is a pointless activity, so why do they do it? I'm not saying it's wrong or even that it's ok...just why do they do it?
For teh lulz?
Tbh none of you have the foggiest clue what you ramble about. "anti-social deviant sociopathic" ?. I consider somebody looking to cover their social needs online to be deviants
Originally posted by Starpower Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Squiggie
Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by Squiggie
...
You know, you are right on one point, the replies in threads like this are hysterical. It is amusing watching the anti-social gankers trying to rationalize their deviant behavior.
So now anyone who kills a low level player is not only a sociopath, they are also anti-social and a deviant. I've been playing Eve for almost 3 years now. I'm a low sec pirate who tries to kill anyone who enters my home system whether they've been playing for 5 years or 5 minutes. The alliance I belong to has about 120 players. How does that equate to being anti-social? I don't see what is "deviant" about kiling other players in a FFA PvP game. In my experience it's the carebears who are anti-social, they insist on playing solo and make forum posts demanding CCP change the game mechanics when they die to a fleet of 20 pirates. There are so few FFA PvP MMO's on the market why do so many players insist on playing them then complain when you get killed by a high level player?
Again you fail to comprehend the topic at hand. When a lowbie wanders into low-sec space and you kill him, that is not ganking/griefing. Another example, if I'm a lvl 20 in WoW Barrens and a lvl 80 rides by and one-shots me then rides on, that is not ganking/griefing. I have no problem getting one-shotted in that situation. Now, if that lvl 80 stealths nearby and continues to kill me repeatedly while I'm trying to level up...that's the anti-social deviant sociopathic behavior we are talking about here. I really don't know how to explain it more simply...you seem to be arguing a different topic than we are discussing here...
So why does the level 80 kill that level 20 in the level 20 area? The level 80 gains nothing and the level 20 learns nothing. It is a pointless activity, so why do they do it? I'm not saying it's wrong or even that it's ok...just why do they do it?
For teh lulz?
Tbh none of you have the foggiest clue what you ramble about.
If the level 80 is killing the level 20, with no in game gain, there is a reason. It's fun. Someone killed him or her at level 20 and they think that's just what you're supposed to do without thinking about it. Something.
In a PvP game or on a PvP server, this is pretty normal. If you don't expect it, you should. That doesn't mean you should have no idea why you're doing it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Why is the ability to kill brand new players so integral to the playstyle? Why does the temporary ability to avoid ganking cause so much hate and discontent?
Probably because now we know that in order to PVP you must at least follow a story until level 20 just to get started. Newbie PVP is really fun right when a game is launched too but now people will be trying to get to level 20 ASAP to be first to learn the tricks to win. The game has classes so that really sucks for those who will get to level 20 only to find out that their class is totally fail for PVP . .. and I bet you anything that rerolling would force you through the same exact content. Sounds like crap to me. The PVP doesn't even look fun but its always fun to PVP in newbie zones when a game first comes out because you don't need to PVE much to win.
I bet that if I bought the game and played it a few hours a day by the time that I reached level 20 there would already be impossible opponents to beat camping the spawns if its an open world.
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You know, you are right on one point, the replies in threads like this are hysterical. It is amusing watching the anti-social gankers trying to rationalize their deviant behavior.
So now anyone who kills a low level player is not only a sociopath, they are also anti-social and a deviant.
I've been playing Eve for almost 3 years now. I'm a low sec pirate who tries to kill anyone who enters my home system whether they've been playing for 5 years or 5 minutes. The alliance I belong to has about 120 players. How does that equate to being anti-social? I don't see what is "deviant" about kiling other players in a FFA PvP game. In my experience it's the carebears who are anti-social, they insist on playing solo and make forum posts demanding CCP change the game mechanics when they die to a fleet of 20 pirates.
There are so few FFA PvP MMO's on the market why do so many players insist on playing them then complain when you get killed by a high level player?
Again you fail to comprehend the topic at hand. When a lowbie wanders into low-sec space and you kill him, that is not ganking/griefing.
Another example, if I'm a lvl 20 in WoW Barrens and a lvl 80 rides by and one-shots me then rides on, that is not ganking/griefing. I have no problem getting one-shotted in that situation.
Now, if that lvl 80 stealths nearby and continues to kill me repeatedly while I'm trying to level up...that's the anti-social deviant sociopathic behavior we are talking about here.
I really don't know how to explain it more simply...you seem to be arguing a different topic than we are discussing here...
So why does the level 80 kill that level 20 in the level 20 area? The level 80 gains nothing and the level 20 learns nothing. It is a pointless activity, so why do they do it? I'm not saying it's wrong or even that it's ok...just why do they do it?
For teh lulz?
Tbh none of you have the foggiest clue what you ramble about.
If the level 80 is killing the level 20, with no in game gain, there is a reason. It's fun. Someone killed him or her at level 20 and they think that's just what you're supposed to do without thinking about it. Something.
In a PvP game or on a PvP server, this is pretty normal. If you don't expect it, you should. That doesn't mean you should have no idea why you're doing it.
My point was. Tributing a real life personality to ingame actions shows lack of intelligence and lack of knowing anything about real life human nature vs online personas. It's a juvenile naive simplistic view based on hate of said actions.
Not so much the post you made but the whole thread in general.
If you do something that will alienate your peers online, why would that even matter to a person who has plenty of social ties, a family etc. in real life?. To me it's the social rejects that needs social ties online. If i only have two hours to play on a wedsnday night and some tool wastes an hour of my time harrasing me am i going to be pissed? Yes but not to the point where i lose my common sense thinking, he probably kicks puppies for fun in his spare time between gaming sessions.
My point was. Tributing a real life personality to ingame actions shows lack of intelligence and lack of knowing anything about real life human nature vs online personas. It's a juvenile naive simplistic view based on hate of said actions.
Not so much the post you made but the whole thread in general.
If you do something that will alienate your peers online, why would that even matter to a person who has plenty of social ties, a family etc. in real life?. To me it's the social rejects that needs social ties online. If i only have two hours to play on a wedsnday night and some tool wastes an hour of my time harrasing me am i going to be pissed? Yes but not to the point where i lose my common sense thinking, he probably kicks puppies for fun in his spare time between gaming sessions.
If a person has psychological problems with empathy, then would you be surprised if that person shows almost no interest in the "well-being" of their fellow players?
If a person has a very egoistic personality in real life, then would you be surprised if that person behaves very egoistic in the game?
Pking newbies, is neither the only form of egoistic behaviour nor necessarily dependent on a lack of empathy; however, every action you decide to do inside a game does reflect your personality even though the connection may be far from trivial.
To this day, the only somewhat "noble" reason people have for pking newbies, is the roleplaying one, in which they are simply roleplaying a villain.
If a person pks newbies just for fun and without any remorse or shame, then there is reason for me, to think that they are likely to have personality traits which I do not like in real life either. I've met people who do pk defenseless people occassionally that do feel shame, shame over that they are enjoying those pks; the shame indicates a decent moral compass at least.
I've never cared if some max level was ganking in lowbie zones honestly, gives you a reason to pan the cam and watch your back. Unfortunately a large part of the MMO community nowadays are a bunch of carebears who don't see that this is actually improving your gameplay forcing you to pay attention to your surroundings to avoid insta death.....to me, it ADDS to the gameplay.
And no, I've never ganked lowbies as a higher level player unless they just happen to cross my path, I don't go out of my way to find them. Just my 2 cents.
Hmm why are most gankers rogue-types who can stealth then and choose when to fight, as in when no one is around to actually challenge them?
Odd...
If they were so bad ass and powerful, shouldn't they roll a class/character type that can't hide but is as big and physical and intimidating as possible?
a "BRING IT ON" type rather then a "i'm scared of the light" type yes?
Lets also not forget that these are the same people who exploit the system so as to minimize their own risk.
In Darkfall, they don't just gank newbs, they jump in front of newbs fighting monsters so that the newb accidentally hits them, flagging them grey instead of blue. This way they can gank without a problem.
These are the guys in darkfall running around stark naked except for a cheap sword killing newbs, so that when they eventually die, they don't lose anything of value, but steal everything from the newb.
This happen in the early days with Darkfall but those days are LONG GONE and your still frustrated about that and try put Darkfall in bad day light lol. And why buy game then when you know its hardcore FREE for all full loot game in first place i wonder?
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
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My point was. Tributing a real life personality to ingame actions shows lack of intelligence and lack of knowing anything about real life human nature vs online personas. It's a juvenile naive simplistic view based on hate of said actions.
Not so much the post you made but the whole thread in general.
If you do something that will alienate your peers online, why would that even matter to a person who has plenty of social ties, a family etc. in real life?. To me it's the social rejects that needs social ties online. If i only have two hours to play on a wedsnday night and some tool wastes an hour of my time harrasing me am i going to be pissed? Yes but not to the point where i lose my common sense thinking, he probably kicks puppies for fun in his spare time between gaming sessions.
If a person has psychological problems with empathy, then would you be surprised if that person shows almost no interest in the "well-being" of their fellow players?
If a person has a very egoistic personality in real life, then would you be surprised if that person behaves very egoistic in the game?
Pking newbies, is neither the only form of egoistic behaviour nor necessarily dependent on a lack of empathy; however, every action you decide to do inside a game does reflect your personality even though the connection may be far from trivial.
To this day, the only somewhat "noble" reason people have for pking newbies, is the roleplaying one, in which they are simply roleplaying a villain.
If a person pks newbies just for fun and without any remorse or shame, then there is reason for me, to think that they are likely to have personality traits which I do not like in real life either. I've met people who do pk defenseless people occassionally that do feel shame, shame over that they are enjoying those pks; the shame indicates a decent moral compass at least.
You take a person with some kind of personality disorder and place him in a MMO and it's going to shrine through in his actions. Possibly. However I don't see how you can take that.... and apply it to everyone who ganks newbies
You assume that empathy is or should be applied to pixels and games as if it had any meaning to it. You can up and leave your screen to go grab a beer in the fridge, go walk your dog or do something else. Nothing that happens on your screen should affect your real life. Sure people get pissed off or you piss others off but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter unless gaming is your life. Then we are talking about a whole slew of other issues.
No action affects real life personalities or vice versa. The online gaming world doesn't give you real life consequences which makes people act accordingly. Sure a jerk in real life most likely would also be a jerk in a game but a jerk in the game is not necessarily a jerk in real life. They don't know you and have no reason to even take your feelings into consideration. To them It's just a game and see you as the weirdo for getting so upset you make long tirades about it on forums
I think this is a topic you and I would just run around in circles with, all day long.
No action affects real life personalities or vice versa. The online gaming world doesn't give you real life consequences which makes people act accordingly. Sure a jerk in real life most likely would also be a jerk in a game but a jerk in the game is not necessarily a jerk in real life. They don't know you and have no reason to even take your feelings into consideration. To them It's just a game and see you as the weirdo for getting so upset you make long tirades about it on forums
I think this is a topic you and I would just run around in circles with, all day long.
Ding ding ding we have a winner! Finally sombody gets it.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Comments
PvP is Player vs Player. Inherent to that is the structure of testing the skills of player A against those of player B. It is a contest of PLAYER skills. So ganking noobs is NOT PvP.
It is slighly different in an RPG of course by nature of the character skills also having to be taken into account. But by it's nature an RPG PvP'er should also have more motivation then simply PvP for the sake of it. That is why you have games specifically designed for PvP without the need to justify your actions (BF, COD, TF etc...).
There is nothing wrong with, as some people have stated in this thread, using PvP in the contect of the structure of the game to kill an 'enemy' but anyone who does so repeatedly just for the sake of PvP is not playing the right game for them. I view people engaging in PVP (in RPG games) with the goal of promoting some part of the game such as teritorial control as a valued part of the game. But people who just engage in repeated ganking are, in my opinion, stupid beyond belief because they don't understand the game or simply just being an a-hole because they can get away with it.
Either way, they are the ones responsible for making big game companies shy away from FFA PvP without restrictions so it would be best if everyone made them leave the game. Both the avid PvP'er and roleplayer should realise who these people are and shun them. Perhaps then we can have developers take the time to make the games we want without having to remove things to combat the minority who always ruin such games.
Ganking newbies is NOT fun at all.. in fact it's a sign of a coward who can't fight toe to toe against someone his own size. In fact I felt guilty for killing newbies/lower levels when they attack me and i have to defend myself.
i had to reply/quote this guy didnt read the rest of the posts under this
this topic is not about when you lose at chess to call the person who beat you a sociopath. but instead, having deep blue compete in a 10 years and under chess tournament. and give the 50$ prize money to IBM...
this is what the issue is.
honestly i play lots of FFA PVP games, and i dont waste my time with new guys... i simply ignore them or help them out by "accidently" droping my bag of gold onthe floor that i consider pocket change (but for him its a fortune), i have whole alliances and territory to claim and go to war with 1/2 the server, i dont have time to kill defenceless noobs, the worst ill do is recruit them into my side and use them as meat shields... meat shields that i finance lol, so in the end they get raped and muredered more times that they can count... but at the end of the day, 2 things happen. they had the best time of their lives (as short as it may be) but in a few months/weeks ill have someone with experience with these kinds of fights and might save my ass one day (true story btw)
people who gank noobs are just cowards and bullies that take pleasure in someone else's suffering... and im pretty sure that is a mental illness.
see this is fine, you kill anything, regardless of veteran or rookie ship. but you dont go to starter systems and kill only the players with less than 3million SP for shits and giggles,
inyour case new players should not be wandering in low sec, tough for they, they should not be there to begin with, they should be in their starter system doing their tutorials.
now someone purposely going to the tutorial zone to gank them... thats just beign coward
I dont think gankers (much like people who cheat in online games) realise why they actually gank newbs, not on a concious level anyway.
I think they do it because on a subconcious level it makes them feel better about their sad little lives in the real world where they are working dead end jobs, being bullied, living in their moms basement, unable to get a girlfriend and basically victims of their own inadequacies.
Sure the average ganker or game cheat will claim to be doing it because its fun, really they say that because its easier than admitting they have personal issues.
Naturally they will deny any of what I typed is true......
Wanna why people gank newbs? Usually because they create threads asking why people gank newbs.
I just worry that people who find it fun to corpse camp new players will breed. Normally I'm against eugenics programs of all kinds, but in this one case and one case only, I'm for sterilization and close monitoring. If you truly get off on imaging your helpless opponent foaming at the mouth after repeat teabaggins, you need to be removed from the gene pool and you'll probably end up in jail sooner or later.
Okay, I'm not quite that worried, but seriously, what kind of person actually does find that fun? I guarantee it's not someone I would want to spend time around, in game or in real life.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
if reading a forum bother you that much you shouldn't read
but I guess the main problem here is not the pvp fact one, is someone leave a high lvl area to a low lvl area just to kill all players there, its diferent from a high lvl player running pass a map and see a enemy guild member or faction and kill him then leaves.
Reading the forums doesn't bother me at all. Like I said, I think the replies are hysterical in their lame attempt to find some type of correlation between killing pixels and a players mental status.
From now on when I lose at chess I am going to accuse the person who beat me of being a sociopath for killing a royal family. Also they should've let me win (or not played at all) because I was less experienced and/or not as good of a player. I also demand a trophy just for playing otherwise it will hurt my delicate and special feelings.
This would be one the guys that cries carebare. I'm all for PvP, shit EVE is probably one of the most unforgiving PvP titles to date. What we are talking about although beyond your comprehension does hold water. It's almost in line with online bullying. Facebook and MySpace mania.Are you saying these don't genuinely exist? I'm pretty sure they do and PvP in MMO's gives them another avenue to express their lowly esteemed rage on others... LoL sad but true.
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Sounds like you plan on being a newbie forever....
And this is why I will never, ever play an open PvP game. There are far too many players who find enjoyment out of griefing others that such a system is not fun at all for me.
Sounds like you plan on being a newbie forever....
I guess so, by your definition. lol Good thing I don't play games for your approval of me.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
players that can't win 1v1 in a fair battle like to gank lowbies or twink low level characters. They are the sociopaths of MMOs.
screw that 1v1 fair battle
i want that castle and ill beat the shit out of whichever alliance is inside it. i wont bother with that lonely noobie killing baby wolves, he has nothing to offer me...other than recruiting him and using him as a meat shield...
if i am to waste my time killing someone, it better be someone worth killing, you know the rich guy who bought all his money through gold farmers... and doesnt know how to play his lvl 99 toon (which he probably bought from ebay)
yeah those are the juicy targets
not the 1 day old guy who has 4 copper and a wooden sword...
This is good. I'm along the lines of that also, I have many times eyed some lowbie and passed by without a second glance. I know they probably are droppin dueces in the first place when they seem some red with the good ol' Skull and Cross bones for their level. So everything I've would've needed to prove is already done.
Now sometimes these said newbs do try and take on the higer level and that's their business and more power to them. You don't get Sentinels killings Machariels by being some wuss's...LoL, but when this happens in your normal MMORPG then you are alowed to gank them down one good time and move on. Sometimes I might even take to the point of near death just to let them flee off with their sliver of life. That's how people can really get there god-complexes on. I could've taken ya life but I let you live mortal..Blazaayy blah..
The real prizes are those that try to P2W and got their toon off some site and don't know jack about it let alone its history. He could be labled a jackass through out the entire server and now you are unknowlingly walking around with this huge target on ya head that you have no idea about.
Outright seeking noobs and making it your sole purpose to hunt lowbies is just wrong, kinda like two girls and a cup wrong. Minus the cup and replace with said gankers face..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
Again you fail to comprehend the topic at hand. When a lowbie wanders into low-sec space and you kill him, that is not ganking/griefing.
Another example, if I'm a lvl 20 in WoW Barrens and a lvl 80 rides by and one-shots me then rides on, that is not ganking/griefing. I have no problem getting one-shotted in that situation.
Now, if that lvl 80 stealths nearby and continues to kill me repeatedly while I'm trying to level up...that's the anti-social deviant sociopathic behavior we are talking about here.
I really don't know how to explain it more simply...you seem to be arguing a different topic than we are discussing here...
People get bored and wanna go kill lowbies. Obviously from a business standpoint this is awful. If a new player keeps getting ganked, there's a chance they'll quit. What business would want that? They're eliminating the risk, and it makes perfect sense to me.
So now anyone who kills a low level player is not only a sociopath, they are also anti-social and a deviant.
I've been playing Eve for almost 3 years now. I'm a low sec pirate who tries to kill anyone who enters my home system whether they've been playing for 5 years or 5 minutes. The alliance I belong to has about 120 players. How does that equate to being anti-social? I don't see what is "deviant" about kiling other players in a FFA PvP game. In my experience it's the carebears who are anti-social, they insist on playing solo and make forum posts demanding CCP change the game mechanics when they die to a fleet of 20 pirates.
There are so few FFA PvP MMO's on the market why do so many players insist on playing them then complain when you get killed by a high level player?
Again you fail to comprehend the topic at hand. When a lowbie wanders into low-sec space and you kill him, that is not ganking/griefing.
Another example, if I'm a lvl 20 in WoW Barrens and a lvl 80 rides by and one-shots me then rides on, that is not ganking/griefing. I have no problem getting one-shotted in that situation.
Now, if that lvl 80 stealths nearby and continues to kill me repeatedly while I'm trying to level up...that's the anti-social deviant sociopathic behavior we are talking about here.
I really don't know how to explain it more simply...you seem to be arguing a different topic than we are discussing here...
So why does the level 80 kill that level 20 in the level 20 area? The level 80 gains nothing and the level 20 learns nothing. It is a pointless activity, so why do they do it? I'm not saying it's wrong or even that it's ok...just why do they do it?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
For teh lulz?
Tbh none of you have the foggiest clue what you ramble about. "anti-social deviant sociopathic" ?. I consider somebody looking to cover their social needs online to be deviants
You know, you are right on one point, the replies in threads like this are hysterical. It is amusing watching the anti-social gankers trying to rationalize their deviant behavior.
So now anyone who kills a low level player is not only a sociopath, they are also anti-social and a deviant.
I've been playing Eve for almost 3 years now. I'm a low sec pirate who tries to kill anyone who enters my home system whether they've been playing for 5 years or 5 minutes. The alliance I belong to has about 120 players. How does that equate to being anti-social? I don't see what is "deviant" about kiling other players in a FFA PvP game. In my experience it's the carebears who are anti-social, they insist on playing solo and make forum posts demanding CCP change the game mechanics when they die to a fleet of 20 pirates.
There are so few FFA PvP MMO's on the market why do so many players insist on playing them then complain when you get killed by a high level player?
Again you fail to comprehend the topic at hand. When a lowbie wanders into low-sec space and you kill him, that is not ganking/griefing.
Another example, if I'm a lvl 20 in WoW Barrens and a lvl 80 rides by and one-shots me then rides on, that is not ganking/griefing. I have no problem getting one-shotted in that situation.
Now, if that lvl 80 stealths nearby and continues to kill me repeatedly while I'm trying to level up...that's the anti-social deviant sociopathic behavior we are talking about here.
I really don't know how to explain it more simply...you seem to be arguing a different topic than we are discussing here...
So why does the level 80 kill that level 20 in the level 20 area? The level 80 gains nothing and the level 20 learns nothing. It is a pointless activity, so why do they do it? I'm not saying it's wrong or even that it's ok...just why do they do it?
For teh lulz?
Tbh none of you have the foggiest clue what you ramble about.
If the level 80 is killing the level 20, with no in game gain, there is a reason. It's fun. Someone killed him or her at level 20 and they think that's just what you're supposed to do without thinking about it. Something.
In a PvP game or on a PvP server, this is pretty normal. If you don't expect it, you should. That doesn't mean you should have no idea why you're doing it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Probably because now we know that in order to PVP you must at least follow a story until level 20 just to get started. Newbie PVP is really fun right when a game is launched too but now people will be trying to get to level 20 ASAP to be first to learn the tricks to win. The game has classes so that really sucks for those who will get to level 20 only to find out that their class is totally fail for PVP . .. and I bet you anything that rerolling would force you through the same exact content. Sounds like crap to me. The PVP doesn't even look fun but its always fun to PVP in newbie zones when a game first comes out because you don't need to PVE much to win.
I bet that if I bought the game and played it a few hours a day by the time that I reached level 20 there would already be impossible opponents to beat camping the spawns if its an open world.
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My point was. Tributing a real life personality to ingame actions shows lack of intelligence and lack of knowing anything about real life human nature vs online personas. It's a juvenile naive simplistic view based on hate of said actions.
Not so much the post you made but the whole thread in general.
If you do something that will alienate your peers online, why would that even matter to a person who has plenty of social ties, a family etc. in real life?. To me it's the social rejects that needs social ties online. If i only have two hours to play on a wedsnday night and some tool wastes an hour of my time harrasing me am i going to be pissed? Yes but not to the point where i lose my common sense thinking, he probably kicks puppies for fun in his spare time between gaming sessions.
If a person has psychological problems with empathy, then would you be surprised if that person shows almost no interest in the "well-being" of their fellow players?
If a person has a very egoistic personality in real life, then would you be surprised if that person behaves very egoistic in the game?
Pking newbies, is neither the only form of egoistic behaviour nor necessarily dependent on a lack of empathy; however, every action you decide to do inside a game does reflect your personality even though the connection may be far from trivial.
To this day, the only somewhat "noble" reason people have for pking newbies, is the roleplaying one, in which they are simply roleplaying a villain.
If a person pks newbies just for fun and without any remorse or shame, then there is reason for me, to think that they are likely to have personality traits which I do not like in real life either. I've met people who do pk defenseless people occassionally that do feel shame, shame over that they are enjoying those pks; the shame indicates a decent moral compass at least.
This happen in the early days with Darkfall but those days are LONG GONE and your still frustrated about that and try put Darkfall in bad day light lol. And why buy game then when you know its hardcore FREE for all full loot game in first place i wonder?
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
You take a person with some kind of personality disorder and place him in a MMO and it's going to shrine through in his actions. Possibly. However I don't see how you can take that.... and apply it to everyone who ganks newbies
You assume that empathy is or should be applied to pixels and games as if it had any meaning to it. You can up and leave your screen to go grab a beer in the fridge, go walk your dog or do something else. Nothing that happens on your screen should affect your real life. Sure people get pissed off or you piss others off but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter unless gaming is your life. Then we are talking about a whole slew of other issues.
No action affects real life personalities or vice versa. The online gaming world doesn't give you real life consequences which makes people act accordingly. Sure a jerk in real life most likely would also be a jerk in a game but a jerk in the game is not necessarily a jerk in real life. They don't know you and have no reason to even take your feelings into consideration. To them It's just a game and see you as the weirdo for getting so upset you make long tirades about it on forums
I think this is a topic you and I would just run around in circles with, all day long.
Ding ding ding we have a winner! Finally sombody gets it.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville