You also are not getting the issues with multi role specs I pointed out, but that is ok. I'm done with this discussion because you are just talking in circles to avoid what I said without proving how the new system is better/provides more meaningful choice.
You haven't actually pointed out anything, you have made sweeping statements with no actual examples. Kinda hard to argue against or even evaluate something with no actual basis. Even then discussing specific talent or even glyph choices is pointless at this early stage.
Bottom line is I believe that this system when its finished will give players more meaningful choice than they've had in the past, while still allowing their characters to be classed as viable. WoW will always be a narrow game when it comes to building a character but this system will give players choices without forcing them to make significant sacrifices.
Well I think with todays news that WoW has lost a further 800,000 subs on top of loses earlier this year I would think MOP really is Ghostcrawlers last stand . The loses coming to WoW will probably have most of the fans defending him here calling for his him to go before too long .
800k sounds about as much as anyone should have expected with TOR just around the corner.
You have to remember these are third quarter losses . This is the second huge consecutive drop . Most likly they include very very few people that have quit over MOP also many people I know are playing out thier subscription or continuing with thier subscription untill TOR comes along . Some of it may be due to a slump inbetween expansions but the numbers are far to large to really be written off as that .
Think of it like this in a three month period 1 in 12 Warcraft subscribers decided to leave and its not the first drop of its kind this year . The next quarter could and and most likly will see an even larger drop in players which wont be easy to write off as easily .
If Blizzard lose 800,000 every quarter such loses would be sustainable for a few years but you have to remember the peer pressure/cool aspect amongst younger players once its concidered to be a game on the slide many players it could soon be uncool and they will look for another game or simply give up mmos for the next cool thing .
The snowball effect has set in and Blizzard need to deal with it sooner or later . MOP I think is a huge mistake so someone will have to answer for it eventually .
I'm pretty sure the expanion themes were laid out a very long time ago. But it's still up to GC to make the most of them and at least retain players. He's failed miserably.
The next quarter could and and most likly will see an even larger drop in players which wont be easy to write off as easily .
Most of the players that are planning to play TOR will let there subs end during this quarter, it would make no sense to renew a sub that overlaps. There is no real reason for there to be a such huge drops in subs during the next year, thats not to say WoW won't keep losing subs but its not going to keep losing 800k each quarter.
Honestly I don't see how you can atempt to downplay the level of hype TOR has.
The next quarter could and and most likly will see an even larger drop in players which wont be easy to write off as easily .
Most of the players that are planning to play TOR will let there subs end during this quarter, it would make no sense to renew a sub that overlaps. There is no real reason for there to be a such huge drops in subs during the next year, thats not to say WoW won't keep losing subs but its not going to keep losing 800k each quarter.
Honestly I don't see how you can atempt to downplay the level of hype TOR has.
Its very difficult to ignore the hype around TOR though isn't it . I mean it has broken pre-order records set by Warcraft for a new mmo 7 years ago . Its the biggest franchise on the planet , its had more money spent on it than any other mmo in history and its by a very well respected developer .Pretty dificult to ignore .
I know plenty of people that are playing out a three month sub that intend to quit in December or January upon or shortly after the release of TOR and many other that intend to try TOR in conjunction with WoW for a while to see which they prefer . A lot depends on how good TOR is of course but if it is as good as early indications point to it being the exodus from WoW in and around December-February could be on a far larger scale than 800k and could be anything from 2 million up .
A lot depends on how good TOR is of course but if it is as good as early indications
Everything depends on how good it is, TOR has built itself quite a lot to stand up too.
It being Star Wars, made by Bioware or any other reason it has for drawing players in means very little once they start playing. Plenty of big name games have gone down the same path, big hype and bigger sales, only to end up failing epically. It amazing how fickle gamers can be, especially when they expect so much from something.
No, he should not be fired. Its not his fault that greedy suits saw #'s dropping and told them to fix the issue. Whats easier, keeping the western market happy or getting the asian market hyped up? I'll give you a hint. its not the western market.
People have been calling for his job since he got there and I find it rather funny.
A lot depends on how good TOR is of course but if it is as good as early indications
Everything depends on how good it is, TOR has built itself quite a lot to stand up too.
It being Star Wars, made by Bioware or any other reason it has for drawing players in means very little once they start playing. Plenty of big name games have gone down the same path, big hype and bigger sales, only to end up failing epically. It amazing how fickle gamers can be, especially when they expect so much from something.
Absolutly but if it is good and given the current state of WoW then the exodus will be on a massive scale . Its really in Biowares hands now if they've produced a decent game then they can take a huge part of Warcrafts subscriber base . At the end of the day loses on such a great scale may end up being a good thing for Warcraft because it would make Blizzard hungry again and look at why the game is losing subs .
One things for certain given this is the second quarter of large loses the slide wont stop there and I predict a third and fourth quarter of similar or even larger loses than the 800,000 we have just seen .
If you put aside the Panda issue, some very interesting things being done that I have taken a "wait and see" approach to.
If they truly are trying to bring the game back towards Vanilla and get players out of cities and into the open world, this could be the best WoW expansion yet.
If you put aside the Panda issue, some very interesting things being done that I have taken a "wait and see" approach to.
If they truly are trying to bring the game back towards Vanilla and get players out of cities and into the open world, this could be the best WoW expansion yet.
Well I've been down this road with them too many times since WoLK when in game GM's promised to fix my Lock and then shut the game down completely for 2 hours the following May just to nerf it again. So I'll be moving on to The Old Republic and give it a try. Maybe if enough people here say that WoW is back to it's former glory and everyone doesn't have 50 level 85 toons I'll give WoW another try but for now I'm letting my subscription run out. It just isn't worth it to me anymore.
I dont care what they do to the man, just bring back WoW's soul or im never coming back.
Their biggest problem in the game is trying to make it easier hoping to attract new customers. The problem with that line of thinking is that there becomes nothing and no one to aspire to (the latter promoting socialization). That is when your game gets boring. If everyone can make it to level 85 then what is the point?
Corparations often behave as if they believe their customers are mentally challenged and in this case they wanted to dumb it down to attract more of the people they believe are their clientel. Either that or they just got dumber themselves.
They need to drop the gimmics and just concentrate on fixing their game and making it a challenge again.
GC maybe should not be sacked over MoP but definately should for what he did in Cataclysm.
Two huge mistakes.
A) Let's make healers manage their mana. Sounds simple right? This had a cascading effect that was like tipping over the first domino. Healers already had a more stressful job in raids than most other roles. It took a special kind of person to play that role. About 20% of healers quit. With 20% less healers, 20% of everybody else can't raid anymore. This led to painful episodes in guilds deciding who to bench, including some that raided for years. I have seen officers in guilds burn out and quit over managing this BS. One simple change, big effects.
On top of healer changes, they increased raid complexity and overall difficulty. In response to a loud minority whinging about the game being too easy. They tuned Sinestra for Paragon guild between attempts. Paragon has a vid that shows this. So you ended up with content that everybody paid to create, and only 1.8% saw. At last blizzcon GC said, people don't want to wipe 100 times trying to down a boss, we get that. Well duh dipshit.
GC maybe should not be sacked over MoP but definately should for what he did in Cataclysm.
Two huge mistakes.
A) Let's make healers manage their mana. Sounds simple right? This had a cascading effect that was like tipping over the first domino. Healers already had a more stressful job in raids than most other roles. It took a special kind of person to play that role. About 20% of healers quit. With 20% less healers, 20% of everybody else can't raid anymore. This led to painful episodes in guilds deciding who to bench, including some that raided for years. I have seen officers in guilds burn out and quit over managing this BS. One simple change, big effects.
On top of healer changes, they increased raid complexity and overall difficulty. In response to a loud minority whinging about the game being too easy. They tuned Sinestra for Paragon guild between attempts. Paragon has a vid that shows this. So you ended up with content that everybody paid to create, and only 1.8% saw. At last blizzcon GC said, people don't want to wipe 100 times trying to down a boss, we get that. Well duh dipshit.
Perhaps the reason they are wiping is that it was too easy to level and players didn't get the experience they needed on their way up to 85. I see this alot in BG's where higher level players are completely clueless not only on how to play but how to spec and gear for BGs. It's this mad race to 85 that takes about 4 weeks if you play consistent but part time. Try being on foot until you get to level 40 than then play this mess and tell me it's not easy.
people are very easy with destroying someone's career.
The result of GC's heavy hand is most likely the cause for losing 1.7 million subs and a couple hundred million dollars a year in revenue.
Money that you know, pays other peoples salary, puts food on the table and clothes on their kids, and allows new content to be created, that kind of stuff.
The result of these changes was predicted after they were announced almost a year before release. You know if they spent $150,000 and hired somebody who understood the social dymanics of the game, and they actually listened to them, they might have saved a few hundred million.
people are very easy with destroying someone's career.
The result of GC's heavy hand is most likely the cause for losing 1.7 million subs and a couple hundred million dollars a year in revenue.
Money that you know, pays other peoples salary, puts food on the table and clothes on their kids, and allows new content to be created, that kind of stuff.
Yeah but you are asking to sack someone on basis of an un released expansion. MOP is not out yet so neither you or anyone else is in any position to declare it a success or a failure.
people are very easy with destroying someone's career.
The result of GC's heavy hand is most likely the cause for losing 1.7 million subs and a couple hundred million dollars a year in revenue.
Money that you know, pays other peoples salary, puts food on the table and clothes on their kids, and allows new content to be created, that kind of stuff.
Yeah but you are asking to sack someone on basis of an un released expansion. MOP is not out yet so neither you or anyone else is in any position to declare it a success or a failure.
people are very easy with destroying someone's career.
The result of GC's heavy hand is most likely the cause for losing 1.7 million subs and a couple hundred million dollars a year in revenue.
Money that you know, pays other peoples salary, puts food on the table and clothes on their kids, and allows new content to be created, that kind of stuff.
Yeah but you are asking to sack someone on basis of an un released expansion. MOP is not out yet so neither you or anyone else is in any position to declare it a success or a failure.
people are very easy with destroying someone's career.
The result of GC's heavy hand is most likely the cause for losing 1.7 million subs and a couple hundred million dollars a year in revenue.
Money that you know, pays other peoples salary, puts food on the table and clothes on their kids, and allows new content to be created, that kind of stuff.
Yeah but you are asking to sack someone on basis of an un released expansion. MOP is not out yet so neither you or anyone else is in any position to declare it a success or a failure.
Comments
You haven't actually pointed out anything, you have made sweeping statements with no actual examples. Kinda hard to argue against or even evaluate something with no actual basis. Even then discussing specific talent or even glyph choices is pointless at this early stage.
Bottom line is I believe that this system when its finished will give players more meaningful choice than they've had in the past, while still allowing their characters to be classed as viable. WoW will always be a narrow game when it comes to building a character but this system will give players choices without forcing them to make significant sacrifices.
Kill him now!
Help Funcom make AoC a better game; quit your World of Failcraft subscription.
Blizzard entertainment: ruining games for money ever since the Activition merge.
GC should have been sacked with the release of WoLK. The game has been a POS ever since.
Well I think with todays news that WoW has lost a further 800,000 subs on top of loses earlier this year I would think MOP really is Ghostcrawlers last stand . The loses coming to WoW will probably have most of the fans defending him here calling for his him to go before too long .
800k sounds about as much as anyone should have expected with TOR just around the corner.
You have to remember these are third quarter losses . This is the second huge consecutive drop . Most likly they include very very few people that have quit over MOP also many people I know are playing out thier subscription or continuing with thier subscription untill TOR comes along . Some of it may be due to a slump inbetween expansions but the numbers are far to large to really be written off as that .
Think of it like this in a three month period 1 in 12 Warcraft subscribers decided to leave and its not the first drop of its kind this year . The next quarter could and and most likly will see an even larger drop in players which wont be easy to write off as easily .
If Blizzard lose 800,000 every quarter such loses would be sustainable for a few years but you have to remember the peer pressure/cool aspect amongst younger players once its concidered to be a game on the slide many players it could soon be uncool and they will look for another game or simply give up mmos for the next cool thing .
The snowball effect has set in and Blizzard need to deal with it sooner or later . MOP I think is a huge mistake so someone will have to answer for it eventually .
I'm pretty sure the expanion themes were laid out a very long time ago. But it's still up to GC to make the most of them and at least retain players. He's failed miserably.
Most of the players that are planning to play TOR will let there subs end during this quarter, it would make no sense to renew a sub that overlaps. There is no real reason for there to be a such huge drops in subs during the next year, thats not to say WoW won't keep losing subs but its not going to keep losing 800k each quarter.
Honestly I don't see how you can atempt to downplay the level of hype TOR has.
Its very difficult to ignore the hype around TOR though isn't it . I mean it has broken pre-order records set by Warcraft for a new mmo 7 years ago . Its the biggest franchise on the planet , its had more money spent on it than any other mmo in history and its by a very well respected developer .Pretty dificult to ignore .
I know plenty of people that are playing out a three month sub that intend to quit in December or January upon or shortly after the release of TOR and many other that intend to try TOR in conjunction with WoW for a while to see which they prefer . A lot depends on how good TOR is of course but if it is as good as early indications point to it being the exodus from WoW in and around December-February could be on a far larger scale than 800k and could be anything from 2 million up .
Everything depends on how good it is, TOR has built itself quite a lot to stand up too.
It being Star Wars, made by Bioware or any other reason it has for drawing players in means very little once they start playing. Plenty of big name games have gone down the same path, big hype and bigger sales, only to end up failing epically. It amazing how fickle gamers can be, especially when they expect so much from something.
Actually WoW has lost 2 million players.
http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2011/11/world-of-warcraft-loses-2-million.html
And rightly so they ruined the game.
Kind of funny seeing people rage over MOP.
lol... Kung-fu Panda...
No, he should not be fired. Its not his fault that greedy suits saw #'s dropping and told them to fix the issue. Whats easier, keeping the western market happy or getting the asian market hyped up? I'll give you a hint. its not the western market.
People have been calling for his job since he got there and I find it rather funny.
Absolutly but if it is good and given the current state of WoW then the exodus will be on a massive scale . Its really in Biowares hands now if they've produced a decent game then they can take a huge part of Warcrafts subscriber base . At the end of the day loses on such a great scale may end up being a good thing for Warcraft because it would make Blizzard hungry again and look at why the game is losing subs .
One things for certain given this is the second quarter of large loses the slide wont stop there and I predict a third and fourth quarter of similar or even larger loses than the 800,000 we have just seen .
Too early to tell.
If you put aside the Panda issue, some very interesting things being done that I have taken a "wait and see" approach to.
If they truly are trying to bring the game back towards Vanilla and get players out of cities and into the open world, this could be the best WoW expansion yet.
Well I've been down this road with them too many times since WoLK when in game GM's promised to fix my Lock and then shut the game down completely for 2 hours the following May just to nerf it again. So I'll be moving on to The Old Republic and give it a try. Maybe if enough people here say that WoW is back to it's former glory and everyone doesn't have 50 level 85 toons I'll give WoW another try but for now I'm letting my subscription run out. It just isn't worth it to me anymore.
Their biggest problem in the game is trying to make it easier hoping to attract new customers. The problem with that line of thinking is that there becomes nothing and no one to aspire to (the latter promoting socialization). That is when your game gets boring. If everyone can make it to level 85 then what is the point?
Corparations often behave as if they believe their customers are mentally challenged and in this case they wanted to dumb it down to attract more of the people they believe are their clientel. Either that or they just got dumber themselves.
They need to drop the gimmics and just concentrate on fixing their game and making it a challenge again.
If not at least they'll still be big in Korea.
GC maybe should not be sacked over MoP but definately should for what he did in Cataclysm.
Two huge mistakes.
A) Let's make healers manage their mana. Sounds simple right? This had a cascading effect that was like tipping over the first domino. Healers already had a more stressful job in raids than most other roles. It took a special kind of person to play that role. About 20% of healers quit. With 20% less healers, 20% of everybody else can't raid anymore. This led to painful episodes in guilds deciding who to bench, including some that raided for years. I have seen officers in guilds burn out and quit over managing this BS. One simple change, big effects.
Perhaps the reason they are wiping is that it was too easy to level and players didn't get the experience they needed on their way up to 85. I see this alot in BG's where higher level players are completely clueless not only on how to play but how to spec and gear for BGs. It's this mad race to 85 that takes about 4 weeks if you play consistent but part time. Try being on foot until you get to level 40 than then play this mess and tell me it's not easy.
people are very easy with destroying someone's career.
I self identify as a monkey.
The result of GC's heavy hand is most likely the cause for losing 1.7 million subs and a couple hundred million dollars a year in revenue.
Money that you know, pays other peoples salary, puts food on the table and clothes on their kids, and allows new content to be created, that kind of stuff.
The result of these changes was predicted after they were announced almost a year before release. You know if they spent $150,000 and hired somebody who understood the social dymanics of the game, and they actually listened to them, they might have saved a few hundred million.
Yeah but you are asking to sack someone on basis of an un released expansion. MOP is not out yet so neither you or anyone else is in any position to declare it a success or a failure.
Try reading, I'm talking about Cataclysm.
OP is about sacking him over MOP.
You are quoting me and I'm not.