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Originally posted by StanlyStanko Yeah, pandas are completely absurd. And being "part of the lore" via novels or an 8 year old game from a different genre doesn't make it any less absurd. While WoW has always obviously tested the limits of what feels appropriate in a medieval-style fantasy setting, playable pandas are a ridiculous jump way over the line. For RPG players raised on Tolkein and 1970's-80's Dungeons & Dragons, playable pandas are an instant OH HELLLLL NO. But we are a very slim and likely meaningless percentage of who's still playing WoW, so as a business move it's probably going to be pure gold for Blizzard.
Did you somehow miss the fact that the entirety of the lore, graphical style, abilities, and just about everything else in WoW is based on that "8 year old game from a different genre"? And Pandarens are a part of that.
WoW has never been medieval-style. It would be described as steampunk fantasy, not medieval or any variation thereof.
Playing Pandas is an "instant OH HELLLLL NO," but playing the exact same thing that's in the shape of a cow is just peachy?
The only thing absurd is these bizarre kneejerk reactions I keep seeing on this topic. At this point I'm ready to just chalk it up to some weird male insecurity issue.
Originally posted by reanor Originally posted by Neverdyne I don't get why people think WoW is doing an Asian themed expansion because of its playerbase in China. The fact is, Asian style architecture and culture is very distinct from ours, and gives a whole new flavor to games. Many MMOs have done Asian themed expansions, from Age of Conan to Everquest; why can't WoW? It adds to the diversity of styles in the game. I didn't see anyone complain when WotLK had a huge Nordic influence.
They hope on Chinese players because all the Americans, German, French are looking forward to SWTOR. Its obvious logic. Blizzard knows that a LOT of people will switch to SWTOR for at least a month to see whats what and take abreak. And to still accumulate the funds they need to keep their WoW car running, so they are releasing expansion centered on Asian players which in WoW are few millions.
This doesn't make sense as SWTOR comes out this year, whereas MoP comes out in November 2012. (As far as I know, this is not confirmed, but look at every other expansion for WoW.) Blizz is not using it to hold themselves over because they'll lose a ton of people to SWTOR. I've been playing WoW on and off since vanilla. I quit last February and may or may not come back for the xpac. I love Star Wars with a passion and I love Bioware. That being said, I don't want to play another game that's just World Of Warcraft.
Its amusing to see so many GW2 and TOR fanboys use these Pandas to reassure themselves of their new favorite game. Rather ironic really considering Star Wars especially has some of the most ridiculous creatures from any franchise.
Originally posted by Teh_Axi Its assuming to see so many GW2 and TOR fanboys use these Pandas to reassure themselfs of their new favorite game. Rather ironic really considering Star Wars especially has some of the most ridiculous creatures from any franchise.
you forgot to say WOW-Hater.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Originally posted by dreamscaper...The same old flimsy comebacks. Did you somehow miss the fact that the entirety of the lore, graphical style, abilities, and just about everything else in WoW is based on that "8 year old game from a different genre"? And Pandarens are a part of that. Oh thanks, Sherlock. However there are people playing WoW who have no experience with, or interest in, WC3. They are playing WoW because it stands on its own as a great product, as an expertly-made sword & sorcery MMORPG. So the popular statement of "but-but they're part of the lore!", while true, changes nothing for people who have no attachment to the lore. WoW has never been medieval-style. It would be described as steampunk fantasy, not medieval or any variation thereof. There isn't much point for going back and forth on how many parts of this-or-that make something qualify as this-or-that. People can split hairs on sub-genres all day long. What counts is that WoW is medieval fantasyish enough - even with all its humor, crazy machines and bright art style - to qualify for not being grouped with Tetris, Resident Evil, Pac-Man, Street Fighter, Madden, etc. It has magic, dragons, knights, castles, potions, blacksmiths, monsters, dwarves, elves and so on. This extends its appeal to people interested a common theme, even though that theme is not declared or guaranteed in any way. You know this. Playing Pandas is an "instant OH HELLLLL NO," but playing the exact same thing that's in the shape of a cow is just peachy? This is probably the most common and the worst of all the slogans, but serves perfectly to demonstrate how differently people are looking at the same thing. (and I'm not saying that these differences make anyone enemies or better than the other!) Tauren are ok because they are inspired by the classic and awesome mythological/Tolkeinesque/D&D creature - the minotaur. And that is the difference I was referring to, some players are viewing WoW as Warcraft fans while some players view WoW or any other fantasy rpg as fans of decades of other worlds and beastiaries. That is fine too. It adds layers for people to relate to, or at least tolerate, a great range of variation in games. Same for Worgen, the werewolf is a classic horror/fantasy icon that almost everyone can relate to or at least tolerate being around. Pandas simply seem to be outside the range for some people. The only thing absurd is these bizarre kneejerk reactions I keep seeing on this topic. At this point I'm ready to just chalk it up to some weird male insecurity issue. /rolleyes
Originally posted by Teh_Axi Its amusing to see so many GW2 and TOR fanboys use these Pandas to reassure themselves of their new favorite game. Rather ironic really considering Star Wars especially has some of the most ridiculous creatures from any franchise.
True and the day StarWars TOR has an expansion surrounding playable ewoks they'll deserve the same kind of ridicule that WoW is getting now .
Originally posted by OkhamsRazor Originally posted by Teh_Axi Its amusing to see so many GW2 and TOR fanboys use these Pandas to reassure themselves of their new favorite game. Rather ironic really considering Star Wars especially has some of the most ridiculous creatures from any franchise.
Any ridicule is more than likely coming from people who do not play WoW at this point any way. MoP is very likely to be a BIG hit in Asia, and thats one of Blizzards largest markets at this point.
Originally posted by kalinis I like the no central en enemy. If u are ally your enemy should be horde. Vanilla wow had no central enemy and no one complained. The pandaran i like. I like the asian theme also. Lets face it playing a panda is just cool. Look at tor forums everyone wants to play wookies and droids snd stuff. so the truth is the minority may hate cute races but hte majority of players love them.
eeeeeexactly! itsa time go back to roots and stop this carebearing central enemy bs.
if this is going to be case im liking the expansion more now even there is pandas doing kungfu.
I like it how Blizz pretends the problem of hatred towards the panda idea isn't even there, while they have obviously alienated lots of players already ))) They are still trying to give it away for a great idea... but it is obviously not! I wonder if they did any research among their player base at all, since this looks like they didn't give a dam... blindly believing, they know what to do by themselves. How ignorant.
Wow is dead .. Nek Minit
Originally posted by DaddyDark I like it how Blizz pretends the problem of hatred towards the panda idea isn't even there, while they have obviously alienated lots of players already ))) They are still trying to give it away for a great idea... but it is obviously not! I wonder if they did any research among their player base at all, since this looks like they didn't give a dam... blindly believing, they know what to do by themselves. How ignorant.
i like how lazy the whole concept is. i appreciate laziness.
in previous expansions, they'd add two playable races. one for horde, one for alliance. but invariably, there were complaints belfs didn't look horde enough and when horde finally got themselves a shorty, they complained ally got a werewolf.
proving you can't please anyone.
so, instead of bothering this time, they decided neutrality is the new yellow.
cowardly or lazy - you decide.
I swer to God I can't wait for Guild Wars 2 to come out.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
WoW was getting worse and loosing its appeal and lore for me with every expansion but I can not believe that Blizzard would be so retarded to actually release expansion based on panda character. What a shame. RIP World of Warcraft. Hopefully people behind Rift will do better.
Dark Age Of Camelot - Gareth - Alderienne (keen eldritch)
I think most of the player base is just blind and are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many people are being silly fan boys. I mean please just look at the lore!!! First burning legion with the demons and all, then Wrath with the Lich King and the undead, and finally deathwing. I was expecting Azshara or an Old God or something or even Sargeras. But what do they do? Bring in the pandas... I mean I really think that they're just throwing in the towel. I'm fine with the Asian setting, it's cool and all. But the pandarean? Wth man... I'm disappointed. RIP WoW...
Originally posted by Neverdyne I don't get why people think WoW is doing an Asian themed expansion because of its playerbase in China. The fact is, Asian style architecture and culture is very distinct from ours, and gives a whole new flavor to games. Many MMOs have done Asian themed expansions, from Age of Conan to Everquest; why can't WoW? It adds to the diversity of styles in the game. I didn't see anyone complain when WotLK had a huge Nordic influence.
(o'')-O Vs Q('' Q)
I dissagree about the talent system; however, that might have something to do with the fact that I'm going to school to become a game designer. To me, all this new system does is finally pare down the talent trees to just the talents people really care about, and roll all the passive nonsense into the class. At 6 teirs with 3 talents each, that's a total of 18 unique effects per class. And that's not counting "unique effects" that are essentially core rotation abilities at 85. Not only does this look or provide more effects than the current model has right out of the gate, plus it's more compact and simple - which, I need to add are not bad things - and it just makes sense. I just don't understand why people feel this gives less choice.
All that said, while I disagree with you Wraithone, it's nice to see a more sensible argument
First, I've played since late beta. I have six 85's an 81 and some 70's and 60's spread over various realms (and even on to the European servers because a friend moved to Ireland). I have a rather extensive background in the various melee classes and how their talents work in various combinations (my 85 hunter is my only non melee, as I do not care for caster classes).
That having been said, I quite agree that *some* of the talents are pretty much useless, and others little more than filler material. That having been said, this new "talent" system looks like it was designed (if I can badly apply the word to something as ill conceived as this appears to be) to make the Dev's job at "balance" easier, than it was to make classes and the game itself fun to play.
This is the Ghostcrawler Syndrome taken to its logical extreme (the GS being a near total focus on spread sheets and data mining, rather than on what makes a class or game FUN to play). Its hardly a surprise, given how the last version of the talent system, locked people into their initial choices until much later on in the game (31 or 32 points invested in a given tree if I remember right). But even that allowed some customization later on, and could be worked around.
One example of that is my Sub rogue. It is spec'ed for extreme burst damage (with some later points in Assassination and Combat). Looking at what they are laughingly calling a "talent" system in MoP, I'll not be able to do anything even close to that. Looking at Warrior, its pretty much the same damn thing. If this is what WoW is to become under the final reign of error of Ghostcrawler, they can count me out.
Having managed to survive the endless nerfs of the death knight class from its launch until now, I'm really amazed that Ghostcrawler and his minions have finally managed to screw things up so badly, that even someone who has spent as much time in the game as I have is disgusted, and ready to quit over this.
I don't mind the Pandas, and I can over look the "Gotta Catch'em All!" nonsense. I'm quite interested in the Monk class (depends on how it works out). But if this is all there is to the new "talent" system, I'm SO done with this game.
Guild Wars 2 does look interesting, as does ToR. I'm also waiting for Firefall. I tried Rift. Its a well polished game, but its just not what I was looking for. Only time will tell how ToR and GW2 turn out.
I absolutely don't understand most of the complaints be leveled by forums goers toward MoP.
First, and foremost, is the new Talent system. Anyone who says this sytem provides fewer choices than the previous one is very clearly a casual player. Right now, raiding in top end guilds on hardmodes, I can very emphaticly say that as a hunter I have a total of three talent slots which are optional. Even these three choices are lackluster and rather uninspiring. If you play seriously at all, your talent choices for optimal raiding are set in stone if you want to perform optimally. If you don't want to preform optimally, then you're just as casual as the "casuals" you claim the game is being catered to.
The new talent system, on the other hand, actually provides more choice per teir. Not a single one of the talents for Hunters that I've seen is worthless, and each one is better for different encounters. There isn't a clear cut "yes, follow this talent built. It's the best". To claim that the Talent System 2.0 is dumbing down the game, making it easier, or anything to that effect is pure ignorance. If you really belive this, then you truly have no idea how few choices serious players have with the current system.
Secondly, I don't understand why everyone automatically assumes that adding asian themed elements to a game suddenly means they're "catering to the asian crowd". The only explination for this I can come up with (and honestly, it's true whether it's the case in this scenerio or not) is that Americans, in general and on average, have very little, if any, interest in anything foreign. I am personally ecstatic about an oriental themed conteninent. Oriental cultures are rich, and very unique from most other cultures - it's a culture I've enjoyed and been engrossed in (among others) for a lot of my life. Sure, I understand it's not everyone's cup of tea; however, the negative reaction it's garnered compared to other cultural tie ins in WoW is absolutely ludicrous.
Finally, and most ridiculous, is the backlash against the Panderan. If I have to hear one more person refer to Panda's as cute and fluffy stuffed animals.... *sigh*. The truth is, Panda bears are just that: Bears. They're vicious when they need to be and insanely tough and strong. This notion of cute and cuddly is a myth and missunderstanding that's been perpetuated.
As far as not fitting in lorewise, not making sense in the world, feeling out of place, and etc. I need only to reference the player race of Draenei. The player race is a far cry from the Draenei we've known all through the RTS series and WoW up until that point. No, these things were GOATS from SPACE with SPACE SHIPS. Panderan and Panderia are far more grounded in the Warcraft mythos than the BC Draenei were. And you know what? Most people liked, accepted, and were fine with Draenei. What is it about the Panderan that has people so up in arms? I can't make any sense of it.
If you want my oppinion on what's happening, it's that WoW has existed for so long that the engine is really starting to show its age. People are ready to move on, though they may not realize why, to something shinier and prettier. The complaints leveled at MoP are just an attempt to rationalize that internal gut feeling of wanting to jump ship. "Oh, WoW's dead! Everyone jump ship!". If that's the case, by all means, move on! Go find another MMO you enjoy more! I, personaly, reccomend Rift or StarWars TOR (though, who knows how this one will turn out. I can't say until I've played it). I think both games are high quality, and can match the end-game challenge and excitement of WoW for players who want to push themselves to the absolute extreme of their skill. No, WoW is not dead or dying and many of us are excited and pleased by the design decisions.
But honestly, the type of complaints this expansion is recieving are just ludicrous and unprecidented.
Originally posted by OkhamsRazor We can put a name to the WoW-Killer now . Its called Mists of Pandaria.
OMG! Burning Crusade is for raiders only! It's going to kill WoW!
OMG! Wrath of the Lich King Fails! WoW is over!
OMG! Cataclysm is the worst expansion ever! WoW is done!
Still waiting to see Blizzard close their doors.
Bring it, Blizzard! I'm looking forward to whatever you have in mind. I've been waiting for Pandarens for a long time. Now they're introducing a mechanic that allows a single race to choose sides. I think we have a prelude to faction switching without race changing soon. Fighting vanity pets? My Creepy Crate is already helping out with the Critter Kill Squad guild achieve, why not let them duke it out for fun and profit?
Mists of Pandaria will be the best expansion ever! Game = Made!
Originally posted by Kalmarth Did Fisher Price buy out Wow?
Worth a quote for comedic effect. +1
I'm going far out on a tin foil coated limb to say Blizzard is intentially changing their game to cater more to children. Titan is the missing link to this idea however. D3 is darker and more for adults and if Titan is anything more than PG then Blizzard would be wise to have a childrens game for parents to buy a...."Blizzard Pass"?
i stopped playing the game early this year and have not looked back, read the interview for chits and giggles and must say i'm not impressed. Glad I'm still not missing anything, playing a panda? uhmm that is for little kids
looking forward to playing the old republic
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! lol rotflol lmao, rotfflmfao....hahahahaha!
What in the name of all that is MMORPG is this game trying to come to?
I'd rather choke to death eating a bowl of fingernails than play something like this.
I don't know if what I "Heard" is true or not, in fact I'm not even bothering to look it up, so I should not even mention it but....whatever...
I heard that Blizz was offering a deal to people that paid for a year of WoW subscription, to get Diablo 3 for free. If this is infact true...that goes a long way in saying...well they are starting to try to pull the same crap SOE pulls, Bundling crap with more crap. Only hopefully D3 won't be crap...lol But thats the same false hopes that SOE gives these days.
Also, it just goes to show that WoW is starting to feel the loss on subscriptions. I can't really say it's about time. Because every game suffers this one fate, this one doom. To be outdone by someone else.
Yes kids the new kid on the block will be SWTOR. I'll put money on it.
I think Blizz should have made Starcraft an MMORPG, that is what I was hoping for.