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we have been betrayed...

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Comments

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,219Member Uncommon

    I think if they are planning $50m to produce this they are aiming to make mega profits... hence mitigate risk and make it 2 factions and spend all that money on features that probably are similar to other themepark mmos (eg strong graphics and look) and ride on some new ideas and features from the IP eg art/lore/classes and fanbase already established.

    I wonder if a sorta sandbox, multifaction WAR40K mmo of at least half the price could have interested ppl (esp. on these forums) more? Perhaps not revealing info is a good sign?

  • quotheravingquotheraving WorthingPosts: 280Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MumboJumbo

    I think if they are planning $50m to produce this they are aiming to make mega profits... hence mitigate risk and make it 2 factions and spend all that money on features that probably are similar to other themepark mmos (eg strong graphics and look) and ride on some new ideas and features from the IP eg art/lore/classes and fanbase already established.
    I wonder if a sorta sandbox, multifaction WAR40K mmo of at least half the price could have interested ppl (esp. on these forums) more? Perhaps not revealing info is a good sign?

    My greatest fear at the moment is the financially pressed THQ putting pressure on Vigil to influence game design decisions towards what they think will be popular I.E. Away from the untried but potentially groundbreaking and towards the tried and true but unexciting.

    As always my mantra is "It's too soon to tell ... need more info!"

    However

    There seems to be a popular notion among a vocal minority that sandbox, multifaction, hardcore designs are the Mmo holy grail. These people will cry and wail simply because a new game isn't multifaction, sandbox e.t.c. 

    Unfortunately sandbox games (the paragon of which being second life) don't deliver story and 40k is surprisingly all about story. Sure the tabletop game looks just a backdrop for skirmishes between figurines, but it's the story that sets it apart.

    Similarly a 40k mmo needs to do more than simply allow groups of players with characters that look they could be from the 40k universe to skirmish with other teams of different looking 40k themed players. It needs to make players feel like they are involved in events occuring within the 40k universe.

    As for multifactions, well that discussion has been had in a different thread.

     

    image

  • StMichaelStMichael Fullerton, CAPosts: 183Member

    Originally posted by MumboJumbo

    I think if they are planning $50m to produce this they are aiming to make mega profits... hence mitigate risk and make it 2 factions and spend all that money on features that probably are similar to other themepark mmos (eg strong graphics and look) and ride on some new ideas and features from the IP eg art/lore/classes and fanbase already established.
    I wonder if a sorta sandbox, multifaction WAR40K mmo of at least half the price could have interested ppl (esp. on these forums) more? Perhaps not revealing info is a good sign?

    Hardcore sandbox gameplay is FAR too niche to warrant a AAA MMO investment. For any game created with multiple difficulty levels, somewhere around 1% of the people who bought it have even tried the hardest difficulty level, much less beaten it. Sandbox PvP is just that.  It would be like investing that kind of money into a free for all hardcore diablo 2 server. All that for a game that might reach ten thousand players at it's peak just doesn't add up.

    As technology improves however, and the cost to produce a quality game goes down, it may be possible. Won't be at all as popular as a mostly PvE oriented game, but still there for those who sleep better at night knowing they ruined some kids day.

  • TivianTivian Tanalorn, WAPosts: 168Member Uncommon

    I am starting to believe that this game is not going to make it.

  • ZyllosZyllos Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 537Member Uncommon

    I am going with the optimistic route and hope that the recent void of information is because they are totally restructuring the game because of all the negativity about having two factions. I honestly think this game would benefit from following a Sandbox/Themepark hybrid to give good story lines and quests but still feel open.

    MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit.

  • MothanosMothanos MordorPosts: 1,910Member Uncommon

    Let them work in piece and create something new and special no matter how long i takes.

    people do not have any patience these days and they dont need to show anything when their not confident enough to blow people away.

     

    remember that there are massive bombs on the way from Blizzard named Titan and Arenanet with GW2 oh not to mention Diablo 3 is getting closer to release also.

     

    If you want to top those 3 games/mmo's/multiplayers you need to be special and lets pray they can pull it off and create something that can stand between those 3 mammoths :)

  • HolyTrevorHolyTrevor TruroPosts: 51Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Let them work in piece and create something new and special no matter how long i takes.
    people do not have any patience these days and they dont need to show anything when their not confident enough to blow people away.
     
    remember that there are massive bombs on the way from Blizzard named Titan and Arenanet with GW2 oh not to mention Diablo 3 is getting closer to release also.
     
    If you want to top those 3 games/mmo's/multiplayers you need to be special and lets pray they can pull it off and create something that can stand between those 3 mammoths :)

    and SWTOR, you cant forget about good old star wars lol

    image

  • DashRenderDashRender Chicago, ILPosts: 1Member

    Originally posted by Zyllos

    I am going with the optimistic route and hope that the recent void of information is because they are totally restructuring the game because of all the negativity about having two factions. I honestly think this game would benefit from following a Sandbox/Themepark hybrid to give good story lines and quests but still feel open.

    I was thinking, and certainly hoping, the exact same thing.  Vigil hasn't given us ANY information since December of last year -- around the time they announced the two faction system and received a huge negative backlash from fans... and rightfully so -- and a restructuring of the game would make sense of the game's borderline no-show at E3.  It was such a bad decision in the first place, maybe it just took screaming dissent of thousands of 40k fans to make them realize it.

    That would make my month if Vigil came out during PAX and acknowledged its mistake and announced a three to four faction system, with each race being its own faction.  A multi-faction system, along with the action-based combat mechanics and use of player controlled-combat vehicles, would make for some of the best RvR ever seen in an MMO.

  • yaminsuxyaminsux Posts: 973Member Uncommon

    All these self-imposed media blackout is very good IMO. It reduces fans expectations. WAR40K have a huge followers and to come up to the fans expectation is somewhat a very tall order.

     

    I mean look at WAR.

  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Adelaide, AKPosts: 953Member

    Originally posted by ProfRed

    The real betrayal is lumping the different races into 2 factions.  Couple that with the fact that the devs are all huge fans of WoW and you can start to picture what we will end up getting. 

     

    It worked well for Warhammer... oh wait what ?

     

    But in all seriousness lumping some of the races together I get because I dont think an MMO with direct factional conflict with 8 factions can work at this time and it requires a hell of a lot of thought & probably too much work to balance. Even Fallen earth made it so your core faction had 2 direct allied factions which seemed to work ok.

    My issue is the game needs 3 sides to choose from not just 2. 3 opposing factions always works more dynamically than 2. Dont ask me how you would sort your factions but I was thinking something like:

    Good: Humanity + Eldar + Tau.

    Self Serving: Orcs + Tyranids + Necrons.

    Evil: Chaos (lots of scope there for at least 1 subrace) + Dark Eldar.

     

    If they could get a working 3 way faction system going then perhaps down the track with either expansions or sequels they could work on seperating the races of each faction out into individual factions if they had to.

  • ZarynterkZarynterk Phoenix, AZPosts: 398Member

    All of you who "claim" to be outraged by this betrayal, will be swinging from the dev's sack the second beta is announced... Go take your faux outrage somewhere else...

    image

  • BlasphimBlasphim San Diego, CAPosts: 354Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Let them work in piece and create something new and special no matter how long i takes.
    people do not have any patience these days and they dont need to show anything when their not confident enough to blow people away.
     
    remember that there are massive bombs on the way from Blizzard named Titan and Arenanet with GW2 oh not to mention Diablo 3 is getting closer to release also.
     
    If you want to top those 3 games/mmo's/multiplayers you need to be special and lets pray they can pull it off and create something that can stand between those 3 mammoths :)

    We live in the insta gratifaction age friend, there is no such thing as patience anymore, but I do agree with you.  MMO's can be turned out rather quickly, and   when that happens you get drek like WAR,  and AoC.  Let them build the game first, then we can worry about it.

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,072Member Uncommon

    So dramatic...

     

    I love 40k, but the game is out 2013? 2014? I'm not really in the care mode untill closer to the release, I hate these "coming soon" crap trailers tbh, games should be announced 1,5 years before the launch and start giving info 1 year before launch and get rid of these todays ridicilous "coming soon" trailers, updating the site every 6 months for 7 years and then launch or bury the title everyone has forgotten already.

     

    Well, maybe it does not go exactly like that but it pisses me off alright :)

  • heavyhebrewheavyhebrew Seattle, WAPosts: 309Member

    Just tossing this out there but what if they decided to rework the game away from two factions and decided to duck out of E3 to begin the redesign?

    They saw the hype TSW got for its 3 faction system.

    Maybe they learned that the one thing always standing in the way of a warhammer IP MMO is trying to force the square peg into a round hole. Warhammer will never succeed in a two faction system.

    I just want a MMO WH40K so damn bad.

     

    Off topic: why are you even reading this, go play some Space Marine!

    TRUST THE COMPUTER! THE COMPUTER IS YOUR FRIEND!

    Stay Alert! Trust No One! Keep Your Laser Handy!

    Yellow Clearance Black Box Blues!

  • grawssgrawss None, CAPosts: 419Member

    Originally posted by heavyhebrew

    Just tossing this out there but what if they decided to rework the game away from two factions and decided to duck out of E3 to begin the redesign?
    They saw the hype TSW got for its 3 faction system.
    Maybe they learned that the one thing always standing in the way of a warhammer IP MMO is trying to force the square peg into a round hole. Warhammer will never succeed in a two faction system.
    I just want a MMO WH40K so damn bad.
     
    Off topic: why are you even reading this, go play some Space Marine!



    A (tiny) bit of supporting info: The main website's "Game Info" changed from their story to some generic marketing thing. It used to say something like "choose from the side of Order, of the chaotic forces of Destruction"

    This could mean nothing, but they have gone mysteriously silent for quite a long time.

    If they are changing it, I hope they have a pretty lenient system in place. That's a pretty big thing to change and depending on the engine, could require an immense amount of rewriting of thousands of quests along with permissions (who can ride an IG tank, etc), perhaps voice acting, dungeons, gear, etc. Many games making such a huge change in mid-development come out terrible.

    Sarcasm is not a crime!

  • heavyhebrewheavyhebrew Seattle, WAPosts: 309Member

    It would be a huge hit in cost but better for long term success. Make it as close as you can to a full form military mmo and this game will shine.

    You could even make "dungeons" out of space hulks. Even lends itself to say...a random dngeon generator? random stock maps for pvp?

    Want to play a grey knight? roll one up and you join the grey knight campaign where you play with others wanting to play grey knights against the people wanting to play for Chaos. You play a series of missions and follow a win/lose tree through the series. Who wins advances the front, wins the planet, etc.

    Don't try to balance, just make the races as close to the game. Someone picking an ork on the front line (Nob+) should understand they need to get as close as they can to a Space Marine or get blown apart like a Gallagher watermelon.

    How about people playing in an Inquisitors war band being paired with people playing chaos heretics through a series of underhive maps? IG squad of 16 get paired against 2 Chaos Marines in the manufactorum?

     

    Come on Vigil! Defeat is acceptable, failure is not!

    TRUST THE COMPUTER! THE COMPUTER IS YOUR FRIEND!

    Stay Alert! Trust No One! Keep Your Laser Handy!

    Yellow Clearance Black Box Blues!

  • Ghost021Ghost021 LisbonPosts: 84Member
    What really disapoints me is the fact that in the last trailler, the Bolters sound alot like regular machineguns and not as the powerfull OMGBBQ!!!!DIE!111 they are supposed to sound like.

    image
  • grawssgrawss None, CAPosts: 419Member

    Originally posted by Ghost021

    What really disapoints me is the fact that in the last trailler, the Bolters sound alot like regular machineguns and not as the powerfull OMGBBQ!!!!DIE!111 they are supposed to sound like.



    If Space Marine is any indication of what we'll be hearing, then I won't be disappointed. Their weapon sound effects were amazing.

    Sarcasm is not a crime!

  • NaralNaral Solway, MNPosts: 751Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by grawss


    Originally posted by Ghost021

    What really disapoints me is the fact that in the last trailler, the Bolters sound alot like regular machineguns and not as the powerfull OMGBBQ!!!!DIE!111 they are supposed to sound like.



    If Space Marine is any indication of what we'll be hearing, then I won't be disappointed. Their weapon sound effects were amazing.

    I know Space Marine is not an MMO, in fact, about as far from it as you can get. That said, it really *really* encouraged me for 40k online, just because the world is spot on. I hope their vision of the world retains the same flavor that SM did.

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLPosts: 24,015Member Epic

    Originally posted by grawss


    Originally posted by Ghost021

    What really disapoints me is the fact that in the last trailler, the Bolters sound alot like regular machineguns and not as the powerfull OMGBBQ!!!!DIE!111 they are supposed to sound like.



    If Space Marine is any indication of what we'll be hearing, then I won't be disappointed. Their weapon sound effects were amazing.

    pfft....who doesn't just turn the sound off in their MMORPG and listen to their own soundtrack anyways.  image

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

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  • grawssgrawss None, CAPosts: 419Member

    Originally posted by Kyleran


    Originally posted by grawss



    Originally posted by Ghost021

    What really disapoints me is the fact that in the last trailler, the Bolters sound alot like regular machineguns and not as the powerfull OMGBBQ!!!!DIE!111 they are supposed to sound like.



    If Space Marine is any indication of what we'll be hearing, then I won't be disappointed. Their weapon sound effects were amazing.

    pfft....who doesn't just turn the sound off in their MMORPG and listen to their own soundtrack anyways.  image

    I tend to keep it at 10% or so for certain sounds that I might need to hear (stealth sound in WoW, etc).

    Sarcasm is not a crime!

  • Ghost021Ghost021 LisbonPosts: 84Member

    Originally posted by Naral


    Originally posted by grawss



    Originally posted by Ghost021

    What really disapoints me is the fact that in the last trailler, the Bolters sound alot like regular machineguns and not as the powerfull OMGBBQ!!!!DIE!111 they are supposed to sound like.



    If Space Marine is any indication of what we'll be hearing, then I won't be disappointed. Their weapon sound effects were amazing.

    I know Space Marine is not an MMO, in fact, about as far from it as you can get. That said, it really *really* encouraged me for 40k online, just because the world is spot on. I hope their vision of the world retains the same flavor that SM did.

    Don't remember the gun sounds in SM... was playing assault the whole time :))

    image
  • OberholzerOberholzer Hasbrouck Heights, NJPosts: 498Member
    Much of the "sadness" on this thread makes me laugh, sorry but some of the reactions are a freightening. If not getting info on a game makes some folks this upset I'd hate to see what really tragedy would do to them. Enjoy the 37 seconds!
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