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World of Warcraft: The Talent System 2.0

MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community ManagerQueens, NYPosts: 5,724Administrator Uncommon

This year's BlizzCon saw the announcement of Mists of Pandaria, the fourth expansion to Blizzard's World of Warcraft. One of the major features of the expansion is yet another overhaul of the game's talent system, and MMORPG.com's Garrett Fuller has a thing or two to say about the changes.

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This week at BlizzCon we got the chance to see some major changes coming to World of Warcraft with the new expansion Mists of Pandaria. Of all the changes coming to the game like the Monk and Pandaren playable race, one of the more extreme changes is how the WoW team is tackling the talent system. There are major changes coming to the system and players will have a lot of new choices to make when the expansion goes live. We’ll try to outline how the talent changes will work and more importantly how it will impact the game play and choices for players.

Read more of Garrett Fuller's World of Warcraft: The Talent System 2.0.

Michael "MikeB" Bitton
Community Manager
Twitter: @eMikeB

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Comments

  • LelariolLelariol Padova, AKPosts: 32Member

    So, is this the idea of Blizzard to address the overabundance of cookie cutter builds?

  • arctarusarctarus nilPosts: 2,570Member Uncommon

    did you really read the article?

    or just hate for the sake of hating?

    RIP Orc Choppa

  • Falcon2KFalcon2K MönchengladbachPosts: 52Member

    "...When designing the new Challenge dungeons it seem like they are testing the idea of not having the holy trinity of classes needed to run through the instance..."

    Where did you get this from? I think you confounded this with PVE scenarios. The challenge dungeons are the same as they ever were only timed and with normalized equip.

  • Joshua69Joshua69 Greenfield, WIPosts: 953Member

    I have crazy mixed feelings about this new system. I really won't know how I feel till either I hear player feed back or get my hands on it myself. In general, I am against this setup, however I'm open to the idea of it.

  • DeathengerDeathenger atco, NJPosts: 463Member Uncommon

    I'n many  ways its similar to a talent system in a game called Knight Online

  • IsturiIsturi Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,509Member

    Originally posted by Deathenger

    I'n many  ways its similar to a talent system in a game called Knight Online




     

    LOL Knight online is still around that was my fist MMO I got out because the gold trolls took over that game. Anyways back on target Blizz will do what Blizz thinks is best for WoW if 2.0 is going to be good for WoW I guess we will have to go with it. That is if we still play WoW at this time?

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  • jackdaw31jackdaw31 oxfordPosts: 26Member

    Still not 100% convinced about the whole Pandaren thing tbh.....

    Anyways, whilst I was glad they simplified the talents in Cata (IE cut the fat), the fact you were now locked into a tree (untill the last few points at least), was a major gimp to variety. I would rather MORE choices, not less! With only 3 trees to choose from as it is (and God bless Rift for multiple choice!), every char that picked say a destro Lock, was pretty much the same as every destro Lock out there.

    Please, don't make the system even more Fisher-Price! Give us more options, not LESS. Lets have some variety in classes and chars.

    Or, have new talent trees? How about a 4th for each class? A Mage with an earth based talent, create a mini earthquake, have a Golum like pet. Or a rogue have a thief tree, where they can get slightly better loot. A Lock with some real necromancy based powers, a Paladin with real dark powers, a Priest who can wear armour, like a clearic based tree. There are multiple ideas my friends and I have discussed in way more detail over the years, but you get my point?

    As for any nay-sayers who may argue about lore and cannon, really? That went out the window years ago. And as for the need to balance a new tree? Well, the 3 we currently have have been nerfed and buffed since pre launch, and will continually be so.

    Too many alts!!

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,191Member Uncommon

    All this does is make every other healer almost the exact same build.  One of the worst decisions I have ever seen made in a MMO, my account can now stay dead far as I am concerned, I will not play such a dumbed down game.

    It was bad enough we will soon have Kung fu pandas and pokemon pets, but this puts the icing on the cake.  Basically all I can say is that  Wow is now pathetic!

  • timtracktimtrack StockholmPosts: 416Member Uncommon

    [quote]Please, don't make the system even more Fisher-Price! Give us more options, not LESS. Lets have some variety in classes and chars.[/quote]

    If you think about it, this does give more variety then the current system. "Less is more" is a good expression here. Instead of being locked down to a specific tree as it is now, you get to freely pick from "core" skills from all 3 "tree's". I see allot of potential for more varied builds, and more fun making and testing them. Instead of "hmm should i pick 2% increased stats on X or 1 second reduced cooldowns on skill Y" you get "do i want an awesome X or an awesome Y". Whatever you pick, it defines your prefered playstyle. You either get a way to Shadow Step around, or a way to move faster alot more, for example, both with pro's and con's.

    PvP balance could also take a turn to the better with this system. This way skills can be properly pitted against each other and then tweaked to balance, without the tweak affecting 100 other parameters.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common

    My biggest gripe with Cata (and the reason I didn't buy the expac) was the dumbing down of the talent tree. I played a free week a couple of months ago and was totally pissed at the way the trees worked. They said there was junk in the old trees and that people were choosing less-than-benificial talents. So what! Let me choose what I want!

    This may be a step up from the current design (jury is out), but it still is over simplifed with a lack of choice. Choose one of 3 talents every 15 levels and can't take the other 2 later? The fewer choices you have, the more defined the rolls will become. Cookie cutters aren't going away with this.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • OmnifishOmnifish LondonPosts: 616Member







    Originally posted by WhiteLantern





    My biggest gripe with Cata (and the reason I didn't buy the expac) was the dumbing down of the talent tree. I played a free week a couple of months ago and was totally pissed at the way the trees worked. They said there was junk in the old trees and that people were choosing less-than-benificial talents. So what! Let me choose what I want!













    This may be a step up from the current design (jury is out), but it still is over simplifed with a lack of choice. Choose one of 3 talents every 15 levels and can't take the other 2 later? The fewer choices you have, the more defined the rolls will become. Cookie cutters aren't going away with this.






















     




    I agree also unless the game drastically changes in terms of endgame content, there will always be a BEST dps/healer/tank spec because the changes are made based on maths as their main priority.  




    IMO Deathknights were the best implementation of choice back in Wrath, you could spec three different ways for tanking or dps but that showed up the lack of flexiability of other classes, so it was scrapped.




    I don't see how more simplification and yet another talent system change, (7 years and they still need to overhaul?), is going to give anyone more flexiability.









     




     

    This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Before you could deviate from the proven "best" spec for a given class/specialization, but in deviating from the standard you became sub-par.

    You had choice, but they were really false choices as you were choosing between having the "right" spec and having a bad spec.

    HOPEFULLY this system will allow players to remain competitive by not unintentionally gimping themselves, and do as Blizzard intends by offering more meaningful choices.

    I do like how (at least how I've heard it) you'll be able to swap around pretty much on the fly.

     

  • XerithXerith Richardson, TXPosts: 970Member

    I'm still on the fence with this change as well, I guess I will have to see it in action but really it seems like they are just simplifying the system even further than what it already is. As it stands now, nearly every prot pally is the same, every holy priest is the same, etc etc. Sure you may move a couple points here and there, but really at the end we have all nearly the same skills, abilities and talents. 

    I fail to see how a system that further reduces player choice, will help in moving away from cookie cutter builds. The only way I can see this possibly working, is if picking your spec at level 10 has greater results than it does now. Perhaps by granting all the abilities and skills to the spec instead of having to put talents into them. 

    As a long time WoW player I was toying with the idea of the year sub, but the more I hear about Pandaria, the less and less I want to play, especially with SWTOR, GW2 and Secret World on the horizon. 

  • theniffrigtheniffrig DublinPosts: 351Member

    Like the new talent system. Like the monk class from what i've seen so far. Like the Asian theme. Not annoyed by the pokemon mini game they want to add. Don't mind them trying a MOBA like DOTA or the timed dungeons that normalise gear. The pve scenario's all seem good too...

    However,

    The pandas I just don't like at all. And for me, that's the deal breaker.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by Xerith

    The only way I can see this possibly working, is if picking your spec at level 10 has greater results than it does now. Perhaps by granting all the abilities and skills to the spec instead of having to put talents into them. 

    As far as I know, that is exactly how it is working.

    You'll have "base" class skills all specs get and "specialization" skills only a specific spec gets.

    Then with the talent system you'll be able to cherry pick talents (abilities) that add to or compliment your chosen specialization, and (they've said) you should be able to swap them out quite regularly.

    Like, fight by fight basis if necessary.

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon

    A lot of you are missing the point here. Blizzard is basically trying to force the players whether they PvP, Raid or both to pick their build based on how they play not what they are playing for. And I for one hope they succeed. Too many times developers make mmos with a diverse set of classes and give those classes great potential to shine with their players just to have min/maxers come in and dictate what is acceptable for raids, PvP, leveling, soloing, grouping and anything else associated with the game. And too often you need a build for each one.

     

    I mean how often do you hear others asking:



    • Hey, what's the best class for soloing?


    • What class is needed more for endgame?


    • Which class is best for PvP?


    • What is the class and build to get the most groups?


    I hear it all the time. I mean is it not more important to pick a class you seem to like and be helpful when you solo, in a group, during a PvP encounter AND during a raid? More importantly isn't it better to be all these things without having to be told you have the wrong class to do any of those things based on your build?


     


    If you think about it, if Blizzard can reprogram the masses to think about the player/class more than the class/build, I think a lot of these attitudes about min/maxing, endgame, PvP and solo vs. grouping can be changed. I mean we all want more players playing right? At least I think we do, because that golden age group of gamers you grew up with in UO, DAoC, AC or EQ ain't gettin any younger. And since a lot of the older players are always finding ways to avoid younger gamers rather than teach them, it's now up to developers to teach the younger gen how to 'role' play.


     


    That is pick a cool class, don't pick a class to fit in.

     

     

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member

    Yeah and I hear that Baskin Robbins 31 flavors believing that sales were down due to so much customer indecision when choosing their favorite flavor of ice cream was keeping customers away, has now changed their format to Baskin Robbins 6 flavors. That should really get those cones once again selling like hotcakes.

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon

    It's a direct copy from EverQuest 2. Wich has a talent system like this for years.

  • PainlezzPainlezz Laguna Hills, CAPosts: 620Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by JeroKane

    It's a direct copy from EverQuest 2. Wich has a talent system like this for years.




     

    Everquest 2... directly copied wow, which had a talent system like that for years! ZOMG BRO!

    Yes, I played EQ2 on day one of its release and it was a very different game than it is today.  I played it to max level recently and during that "adventure" I was amazed at how similar it has become to WoW.  I did not follow EQ2 each and every update, but I can only imagine they likely followed WoW rather than the other way around.  I make this assumption because I did follow WoW and they made a lot of the simplified changes that EQ2 and WoW have in common very early on.  I don't believe EQ2 dumbed their game down quick so quickly.

  • Requiem6Requiem6 Saint-Hubert, QCPosts: 237Member

    The new talent system seem great. Better than the last one.

    I'm a little afraid to see the final product.

    And I wonder how it will work with the class system and spec system skill.

     

    Overall, seem great.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,447Member Uncommon

    That's what I was thinking. EQ2 has had this for a long time...

  • jacktorsjacktors Port St Lucie, FLPosts: 158Member Uncommon

    Well, with 3.8 billion in Asia alone, why wouldnt Blizzard offer every enticement toward the huge Asian market.  The new expansion is completely aimed to grab as many Asian customers as they can. Blizzard is a business and they need to keep it rolling.. I really beleive that Blizzard is concerned with losing a huge chunk of American business with Star Wars TOR  coming out.  Star Wars franchise is mainly an American thing. So we can see where WOW is headed.  

    Pokemon style Pets = Popular in Asian Market

    Panda Bears =  Popular in Asian Market

    Pandaria Lands Asian Themed =  Popular in Asian Market

    Monk(Martial Arts) Class = Popular in Asian Market

    Its clear to see who Blizzard beleives will be their main customers will be in the future. 

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Painlezz



    Originally posted by JeroKane



    It's a direct copy from EverQuest 2. Wich has a talent system like this for years.










     

    Everquest 2... directly copied wow, which had a talent system like that for years! ZOMG BRO!

    Yes, I played EQ2 on day one of its release and it was a very different game than it is today.  I played it to max level recently and during that "adventure" I was amazed at how similar it has become to WoW.  I did not follow EQ2 each and every update, but I can only imagine they likely followed WoW rather than the other way around.  I make this assumption because I did follow WoW and they made a lot of the simplified changes that EQ2 and WoW have in common very early on.  I don't believe EQ2 dumbed their game down quick so quickly.

    I think you are confused with the AA (Alternate Achievement) system, which was introduced with the Echoes of Faydwer expansion. Which was also from EverQuest 1 ! NOT WoW. Sorry to dissappoint you.

    The talent and racial bonus system has always existed in EQ2 as far as I know.

  • nattiusnattius newcastle upon tynePosts: 22Member
    Kung fu pandas, talent tree I could have my 2yr old pick without any real impact on playability, pokemen pet battles. WoW certainly fix the hardcore / casual problem. They're solidly on casual now. No hardcore raider is going to see this as an improvement.
  • I didn't care for the talent system, which was just a holdover from the Diablo games...good going for Blizzard on this change.  Pandas, not so much.

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