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Are Fantasy mmo's Becoming Old?

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  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member

    Originally posted by raistlinm

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    The fantasy theme has been prevalent in games since Akalabeth came out in 1979 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akalabeth:_World_of_Doom).  I really don't see it going anywhere.

    Is it getting old?  I doubt it in the sense of the general gaming market at least.  If fantasy has stayed strong for over three decades, I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon.

    Obviously though it will get old to individuals...but I don't think so many that it will affect the market at all.

    Very true I don't know that it's even an issue of I'm so sick of it I'd never play it again, well that can't be it because I still play LOTRO on occasion but it certainly has become a much greater chore to log into anything with dragons,elves.hobbit/dwarf/gnome,goblins, huge stone castles etc..

    I think for me for a bit it would take a really special game to cure this malaise  or a very long spin with a nice sci fi title.

    Yeah, essentially.  That's where Global Agenda had it right.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxFKDzW0qdg

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Adelaide, AKPosts: 953Member

    Originally posted by grawss

    Originally posted by TheCrow2k

    I personally am over the fantasy genre for both MMO and CRPG's generally.

     

    I think its over saturation in the market on both accounts, I am really looking forward to some sci-fi. I know the 40k MMO is coming (and with only 2 factions and being a WoW clone it will most likely fail hard) but I am surprised no one has done a 40k CRPG game yet. They could do an inquisition game which would give a lot of scope for building a party of characters of various races and a story that could encompass a number of planets & encounters with xeno races.



    What makes you say the 40k MMOG is going to be a WoW clone? O_o

    We know next to nothing about it, and although the two factions thing does point heavily to it being a WoW clone, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion until we know something about how the factions are actually going to work.

    And hell, being a third person shooter/melee hybrid with aiming already sets is quite a bit apart. Having cover systems (actual cover, not some half-assed system like TOR's), heavy use of vehicles with actual physics, and making all classes damage dealers (past that I don't know if they're removing the trinity) sets it apart even more.

     

    Um we dont know a lot about the game but we do have developer and particularly lead designer comments and interviews around what they are planning & what they would like to see in the game. The constant referal to World of Warcraft in those interviews & the fact several of the leads have said they all love WoW in interviews is cause for concern & since the "safe trend" in MMO's right now is to follow WoW.... well you do the math.

    2 Factions in a game of its type is setting up for a fail, Evidently nobody in the MMORPG bizz learned a damn thing from the sick joke that was Warhammer Online.

    The manual aiming for ranged is not confirmed at all BTW, we could still end up with a lousy tab targetting system. I would love the multiplayer combat system from WH40k Space Marine to be put in the MMO though that would be cool.

     

    Alas the developer interviews thus far and their total denial that they need 3 factions does not inspire any confidence at all.

     

     

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by TheCrow2k

    Originally posted by grawss

    Originally posted by TheCrow2k

    I personally am over the fantasy genre for both MMO and CRPG's generally.

     

    I think its over saturation in the market on both accounts, I am really looking forward to some sci-fi. I know the 40k MMO is coming (and with only 2 factions and being a WoW clone it will most likely fail hard) but I am surprised no one has done a 40k CRPG game yet. They could do an inquisition game which would give a lot of scope for building a party of characters of various races and a story that could encompass a number of planets & encounters with xeno races.



    What makes you say the 40k MMOG is going to be a WoW clone? O_o

    We know next to nothing about it, and although the two factions thing does point heavily to it being a WoW clone, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion until we know something about how the factions are actually going to work.

    And hell, being a third person shooter/melee hybrid with aiming already sets is quite a bit apart. Having cover systems (actual cover, not some half-assed system like TOR's), heavy use of vehicles with actual physics, and making all classes damage dealers (past that I don't know if they're removing the trinity) sets it apart even more.

     

    Um we dont know a lot about the game but we do have developer and particularly lead designer comments and interviews around what they are planning & what they would like to see in the game. The constant referal to World of Warcraft in those interviews & the fact several of the leads have said they all love WoW in interviews is cause for concern & since the "safe trend" in MMO's right now is to follow WoW.... well you do the math.

    2 Factions in a game of its type is setting up for a fail, Evidently nobody in the MMORPG bizz learned a damn thing from the sick joke that was Warhammer Online.

    The manual aiming for ranged is not confirmed at all BTW, we could still end up with a lousy tab targetting system. I would love the multiplayer combat system from WH40k Space Marine to be put in the MMO though that would be cool.

     

    Alas the developer interviews thus far and their total denial that they need 3 factions does not inspire any confidence at all.

     

     

     Aren't there already two mmorpgs based on Warhammer?

    They must have been successful to warrant another one.

    Either that or the people making these games just have a ton of cash to burn.

    Smile

  • WolfenprideWolfenpride San''doria, WIPosts: 3,988Member

    The fantasy genre is timeless imo.

    The problem as I see it is that despite the wide range of themes/settings/atmospheres one could make within the genre, MMO's don't go very far beyond the very traditional/european fantasy setting.

    I'll agree it's getting old, however I would love nothing more than to see a company come out with an MMO set in a original fantasy setting. Something that looks and feels weird/alien, take Planescape Torments setting as an example.

  • 1333333713333337 Gettysburg, PAPosts: 23Member

    Too many trolls (No pun intended) or orcs or whatever they are called. Can't we make a new fantasy based race. Besides Elves, Orcs, Dwarves, Humans?

    Now where did I put my Gundam!?

  • TiiKiiTiiKii Durango, COPosts: 162Member

    Not for me they are not! I love fantasy in any form :)

    "Huntress"

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,742Member Uncommon

    I think when any new race is made it gets forced into a longer dress and then covered up. 

    image

  • CorkCorkCorkCorkCorkCork SingaporePosts: 70Member

    Oh man ! This thread reminds me of how fun FFXI is when I played it.

    Whenever you are really bored and don't wanna play an MMO game, go to: http://librivox.org/

    Hey hey hey heeeeeeeeeeeyyyyy.......


    image

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by 13333337

    Too many trolls (No pun intended) or orcs or whatever they are called. Can't we make a new fantasy based race. Besides Elves, Orcs, Dwarves, Humans?

    Now where did I put my Gundam!?

     I have this same issue.

    The same races are used in almost every fantasy mmorpg and it gets so boring.

    It's not exactly creative either.

    Smile

  • WarmakerWarmaker San Diego, CAPosts: 2,231Member

    To kind of add what I said earlier in the thread, it's very easy for any setting / IP to be generic to the rest.  If you really get down to it, the differences between any setting / IP are very small.  Lasers, swords, magic, orcs, etc.  You'll find them all in stuff using similiar settings.  The problem is if not enough things are done make it feel different.  You put in a reliance of magic in Tolkien's Middle Earth, then it becomes just like any generic fantasy setting.  Star Trek is another example.  In general, what makes it different than any other generic sci-fi setting?  You have empires and factions dividing space and warring with each other here and there.  You have a variety of aliens.  You have spaceships that shoot beams and projectiles, as well as shields to protect themselves.  Yet there are certain things Star Trek does that makes it unique and widely known in the world.  Disregard those characteristics, then it's just another generic sci-fi setting.

    It doesn't matter if it's fantasy or sci-fi.  But it also matters what devs do to make their game feel unique, regardless of the setting they chose, established IP or not.

    As far as MMORPGs go, if game mechanics are bland and the setting doesn't feel anything special, then it's no wonder you're sick and tired of it.  Whatever setting is chosen, it should immerse you.

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • SkillCosbySkillCosby Trenton, MIPosts: 684Member

    Although plenty, I don't mind the redundant fantasy MMOs. It's my favorite theme compared to sci-fi, post-apoc, and modern time, and super hero MMOs. I'm just not a fan of the other genres.

    The Star Wars franchise is my favorite. However, it's been butchered with the NGE. SWTOR is more like a single-player WoW.

  • LeegOfChldrnLeegOfChldrn Jcakson, MSPosts: 364Member

    No. Fantasy will never get old, especially when there are a trillion ways to sub-genre.

    Compare the following fantasy...

     

    Warhammer Fantasy

    Confrontation: The Age of Ragnarok Lore

    Vampire Masquerade, Medieval

    Ultima Fantasy

    Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy

    Earthdawn (First Age Shadowrun) Fantasy

    Game of Thrones Fantasy

    Lord of the Rings Fantasy

    Final Fantasy

    King Arthur Fantasy

    Romance of the Three Kingdoms Fantasy

    Count of Monte Christo Fantasy

     

    These, at least to me, are all insanely different. Take a look and compare ANY of these TWO types of fantasy and they look entirely different, just like looking at Fantasy vs Sci-Fi. The way Fantasy is such a broad genre, which merely includes the lack of modern automatic firearms and vehicles. Even so, things such as weaponry can be entirely different (including flintlock firearms, cannons, or not), Magic is unique to the genre (if it exists in it at all), and "monsters" is just a vague definition for anything that isn't human (and arguably isn't a "good race", although Elves can certainly be considered monsters). The reason Fantasy never gets old, is the same reason creativity never gets old.

    Similar to what Homer Simpson said about Weird Al,

    "He who is tired of Fantasy, is tired of life."

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

    No. Fantasy will never get old, especially when there are a trillion ways to sub-genre.

    Compare the following fantasy...

     

    Warhammer Fantasy

    Confrontation: The Age of Ragnarok Lore

    Vampire Masquerade, Medieval

    Ultima Fantasy

    Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy

    Earthdawn (First Age Shadowrun) Fantasy

    Game of Thrones Fantasy

    Lord of the Rings Fantasy

    Final Fantasy

    King Arthur Fantasy

    Romance of the Three Kingdoms Fantasy

    Count of Monte Christo Fantasy

     

    These, at least to me, are all insanely different. Take a look and compare ANY of these TWO types of fantasy and they look entirely different, just like looking at Fantasy vs Sci-Fi. The way Fantasy is such a broad genre, which merely includes the lack of modern automatic firearms and vehicles. Even so, things such as weaponry can be entirely different (including flintlock firearms, cannons, or not), Magic is unique to the genre (if it exists in it at all), and "monsters" is just a vague definition for anything that isn't human (and arguably isn't a "good race", although Elves can certainly be considered monsters). The reason Fantasy never gets old, is the same reason creativity never gets old.

    Similar to what Homer Simpson said about Weird Al,

    "He who is tired of Fantasy, is tired of life."

     King Arthur fantasy is one of my favorites, but you don't really see it used very often in mmorpgs...

    Smile

  • Methos12Methos12 Maladis 46Posts: 1,234Member Uncommon



    Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn
    No. Fantasy will never get old, especially when there are a trillion ways to sub-genre.
    Compare the following fantasy...
     
    Warhammer Fantasy
    Confrontation: The Age of Ragnarok Lore
    Vampire Masquerade, Medieval
    Ultima Fantasy
    Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy
    Earthdawn (First Age Shadowrun) Fantasy
    Game of Thrones Fantasy
    Lord of the Rings Fantasy
    Final Fantasy
    King Arthur Fantasy
    Romance of the Three Kingdoms Fantasy
    Count of Monte Christo Fantasy
     
    These, at least to me, are all insanely different. Take a look and compare ANY of these TWO types of fantasy and they look entirely different, just like looking at Fantasy vs Sci-Fi. The way Fantasy is such a broad genre, which merely includes the lack of modern automatic firearms and vehicles. Even so, things such as weaponry can be entirely different (including flintlock firearms, cannons, or not), Magic is unique to the genre (if it exists in it at all), and "monsters" is just a vague definition for anything that isn't human (and arguably isn't a "good race", although Elves can certainly be considered monsters). The reason Fantasy never gets old, is the same reason creativity never gets old.
    Similar to what Homer Simpson said about Weird Al,
    "He who is tired of Fantasy, is tired of life."

    Agreed and well put together. People who claim "all fantasy is the same and hence boring" clearly either: A) haven't been exposed to that many different types of it or B) have suffered from over-saturation of the same old approach. As diverse as fantasy is it, possibly more than any other genre out there, suffers from TONS of schlock works that just exploit the interest in the genre.

    Nature without Technology is little more than animals running about.
    Nature without Magic is without wonder or miracle.
    .........
    Magic without Technology is fantasy.
    Magic without Nature is formless and useless.
    .........
    Technology without Nature is application without understanding.
    Technology without Magic is repetitious and uninventive.
  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Methos12

     






    Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

    No. Fantasy will never get old, especially when there are a trillion ways to sub-genre.

    Compare the following fantasy...

     

    Warhammer Fantasy

    Confrontation: The Age of Ragnarok Lore

    Vampire Masquerade, Medieval

    Ultima Fantasy

    Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy

    Earthdawn (First Age Shadowrun) Fantasy

    Game of Thrones Fantasy

    Lord of the Rings Fantasy

    Final Fantasy

    King Arthur Fantasy

    Romance of the Three Kingdoms Fantasy

    Count of Monte Christo Fantasy

     

    These, at least to me, are all insanely different. Take a look and compare ANY of these TWO types of fantasy and they look entirely different, just like looking at Fantasy vs Sci-Fi. The way Fantasy is such a broad genre, which merely includes the lack of modern automatic firearms and vehicles. Even so, things such as weaponry can be entirely different (including flintlock firearms, cannons, or not), Magic is unique to the genre (if it exists in it at all), and "monsters" is just a vague definition for anything that isn't human (and arguably isn't a "good race", although Elves can certainly be considered monsters). The reason Fantasy never gets old, is the same reason creativity never gets old.

    Similar to what Homer Simpson said about Weird Al,

    "He who is tired of Fantasy, is tired of life."






    Agreed and well put together. People who claim "all fantasy is the same and hence boring" clearly either: A) haven't been exposed to that many different types of it or B) have suffered from over-saturation of the same old approach. As diverse as fantasy is it, possibly more than any other genre out there, suffers from TONS of schlock works that just exploit the interest in the genre.

     

     I agree 100%.

    Of course not all fantasy is the same, but look at how a lot of fantasy is being used in mmo's.

    They aren't really that different once you get into them story and quest wise (not to mention race wise; so many elves *cough*).

    Obviously in mechanics most mmo's are going to be the same.

    That's a given.

    Smile

  • PilnkplonkPilnkplonk zagrebPosts: 1,532Member

    DIRECT TO OP QUESTION

    No, not really.

    It's a genre, a shared convention. When you write "classical fantasy" you don't need to spend your time describing the world. You can concentrate on the meat of the story. Just like in western movies or cop movies. You don't need to spend the first half of the movie explaining that there are cowboys and indians and that cops hunt robbers.... or that orcs are savage and elves noble. This has its merits, believe me.

    On the other hand, what you described is a stale fantasy story convention, and it's not even restricted to fantasy by far. The hero's journey thing... While veritable it's frankly grown overused in recent times. Probably due to George Lucas raping John Campbell's corpse but that's another story. Anywayz, many writers, from Fritz Leiber to George R.R. Martin proved that fantasy doesn't have to be "boy saves world" "good versus evil" thing. In that sense, Star Wars is more of a fantasy story than most sword and sorcery ones.

    edit... in short, read up on some proper fantasy mate, Leiber and Martin are great and you shouldn't miss Moorcock's eternal champion series where he spoofs this "hero's journey" thing. Take a look at Pratchett too for a thorough demolition of practically any literary cliche anywhere.

    edit 2... again, it's not the fantasy or "sword and sorcery" genre. It is the "hero's journey" story structure which is boring and done do death. Whether they ride dragons or spaceships, kill demon lords or crime bosses which killed their familes... or jelaous drunkard husbands beating their wannabe-writer wives... it's not the genre, it's just that damn same old damn story.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member

     

    Although fantasy MMORPGs have been done and done and done.....I don't believe that the FANTASY part of the genre is getting old, we just need devs with more imagination and the money to back it.  I think SWTOR and GW2 will begin to broaden the "fantasy" part of the genre.  And before you wig out on me for calling SWTOR fantasy....it's sci-fi AND fantasy....and I think that those two games will do enough differently to make fantasy endearing again.  No, it's not the same cutesy fantasy, but it's still fantasy.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    What I find extremely sad is that only one mmorpg (that I know of) has fully used dragons as a race.

    There ones that sort of use it in a way where you can change parts of your body into a dragon, but the only mmorpg I know of where you can fly in the sky as a huge dragon is Horizons/Istaria.

    Yet, tons of mmos have "Dragon" in their titles and often times have almost nothing to do with dragons.

    It just makes me a bit sad.

    Smile

  • PilnkplonkPilnkplonk zagrebPosts: 1,532Member

    Originally posted by Madimorga

    You spelled imprisonment wrong.  No million dollar contract for you!

     

    Seriously, yes, it's getting old.  10,000 times yes.  I never liked the fantasy mmo genre that much to start with anyway.  Sci-fi has always been less tolerant of cliches than fantasy in all the creative forms.  That's my biased opinion, but I have been reading sci-fi and fantasy for close to thirty years (written some utterly horrible and completely unsellable novels and short stories in both genres, too), so it's not a completely uninformed opinion.

    Agree, for some reason sci-fi seems to be more immune to this "hero's journey" plague. But it doesn't have to be. There were much more non-standard and thoughtful sci-fis than sword and sorcery ones, although it's not exclusive by any means.

    I find it highly ironic that one of the (if not THE) most popular sf IPs is actually verbatim hero's journey. I mean, Campbell, who defined the thing actually collaborated on it... Sometimes I despair for humanity, I really do.

  • PilnkplonkPilnkplonk zagrebPosts: 1,532Member

    Originally posted by fenistil

    @OP

     

    It is not about fantasy or not fantasy as same cliches you have in modern story or sc-fi stories as well.

     

    This is entirelly up to quality of story itself and not the kind of setting story takes in.

     

    So are Fantasy MMO's getting old?  NO

    Are stories told  in MMO's / games in general get old and are just cliches and cookie cutter / naive / too simple / black & white only ? YES.

     

     

    QED

    You're talking about "hero's journey" story structure. It was all the rage, a new discovery in the late 70's / early 80's that saved Hollywood from ignomious death but nowadays it's just... unbelievably old and tired.

    The sad part is that the guy who defined and analyzed it was an amazingly smart and enlightened individual but the likes of George Lucas and thousands of similar shills practically took a big dump on his grave and stuck a few dasies in it. :(

    for youse guys wanting to take a rest from saving the world, this is worth watching, straight from the man.

    (his rabid foundation took The power of Myth documentaries off youtube but this is the next best thing... you know where to get it, now dont you ;) )

    http://youtu.be/9IeBqqQNKvQ

    Sadly all of us, post starwars children that are bought into this and consider it the only story there is.... Poor old Joseph must be rolling in his grave right now.

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member

    TOR is going to be a nice change of pace. I would like to see a Firefly/Serenity game made as well....MMO or SPRPG.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Moaky07

    TOR is going to be a nice change of pace. I would like to see a Firefly/Serenity game made as well....MMO or SPRPG.

     Eh, looking forward more to GW2.

    TOR hasn't really caught my interest.

    I am really interested in ArcheAge coming to the NA.

    That won't happen for a while though as it's still in beta in Korea.

    Smile

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,643Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Yes.

    Ditto.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    The thing is about the fantasy genre that worries me is that so many people are relying on two mmos to get them interested in mmos again (I'm referring to GW2 and SW:TOR. SW:TOR has scfi-fi elements mostly but does contain some fantasy too).

    What happens if these two games fail to meet players expectations?

    Seems negative but if that really happens it will be a huge disapointment to a lot of players.

    Smile

  • JohnnyBravolJohnnyBravol Toronto, ONPosts: 83Member

    Yes, it's become very old. That's partly why I can hardly stand to play MMO's anymore. I've only been playing English Priston Tale. And it can't be blamed too much as it was launched in 2001. These newer MMO's however.... For the love of God think of another storyline.

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