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Diablo 3 should have a different name...

SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member

This game will be good.  It will be hot.  It might be the new black!  It will be hard to beat, and a AAA title for sure.  I wouldn't want to bet on box sales or broken records, because this game will redefine dungeon crawlers for years to come.  

That said, it won't be a diablo game at all, and this truly lets me down.  There will never be a "true" Diablo 3 in my mind/ heart, and the game we are seeing will just be a grown up dungeon crawler based on WOW.  

The game is missing many, perhaps ALL, of the core elements that drew us original fans to the series.  If you weren't into PC gaming in the 1990s playing Diablo 1 and 2, and perhaps Stonekeep and Warcraft 1, then you probably won't fully understand the following points.  I love lists, so here is my list of what makes a Diablo game:

#1 Labyrinthine Hellishness

Diablo 1 was a game in which you would descend into dark dungeons, layer by layer, until you emerged with the power kick the crap out of the devil himself.  The descent through the rings of hell was a parallel to the classic Dante's Inferno story.  Dungeons throughout the whole game were randomly generated.  Yup, for those who have not played, a game created in the 1990s had 100% random generated maps.  There were no step-by step walkthroughs.  It's good to see that this returned (mostly intact) to Diablo 2.  Diablo 3 seems to have static dungeons.  What a joke.

 

#2 Gear generated on the spot.

This is where WOW loses me.  Sure they have things like The Deadly Bow of Snakes, but the items are created and detailed like that ahead of time.  WOW did not use an item creator where items where (random prefix) + (random item) + (random suffix).  It looks as if "Diablo" 3 may be going the WOW route, even down to detailing the BEST items in game.  "Best In Slot" was never a term to be used in this series, and the fact that they're going this route kills me.  I'd rather not have the game balanced at all, than lose my random items.  Perhaps I will have to play Borderlands for my Diablo itemization fix?

 

#3  Demonic Themes

Pentagrams, burning upside down crosses, lakes of blood.  Mutilated corpses.  Basically, think of the Doom series when you do your tilesets, and you are on the right path.  I've yet to see anything demonic in Diablo 3 though.

 

#4 Skills

WOW is not the series that invented skill trees.  Skill trees were more a part of Diablo 2, but  Diablo 1 did some things better than Diablo 2 IMO, because you could learn skills outside your base class.  Nevertheless, Diablo 2 was the first game to feature skill trees that resemble the talents you see in most MMOs today.  It was good to see this in WOW, but now it's gone from Diablo?  This gets a massive WTF from me.

 

#5 Dark themes

Diablo 1-2 were gothic at the very heart of their artwork.  The mixture of Doom-style and Medieval-goth was a sure hit back in the day.  D3 doesn't exactly look like WOW IMO, but it does not match these old elements.  Sometimes Diablo 1-2 would get so dark, that players would search out items that generated light.  In some dungeons, you never knew what lurked beyond your tiny field of vision.  This was also true of the Warcraft series of old, although it had a much more whimsical "fog of war" thing going on.  In D3 it's gone.

 

Edit:  So, what we have here is a top-notch dungeon crawling game.  It has all the crucial elements to make it successful, even my beloved "visceral action."  However, the apple has falled far from the tree, and I wouldn't call it Diablo at all.  I'd probably call it "War for Tristram" and label it as a spinoff, as it will never truly be a Diablo game in the hearts of original fans...

 

 

 

 

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Comments

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,313Member Uncommon

    I agree with all your points except the initial hype of the game.  I don't think it will be anywhere near as epic as you suggest. I think it will disappoint, and I think it already has. Besides that though, I do agree with your points, especially 2 & 4

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

    I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,919Member Rare

    Diablos dungeons were just 90% randomized, they had a few fixed points, like that place were the butcher lives.

    Otherwise I agree, they should have placed the game in the Warcraft world instead and named it something with Warcraft. That wouldn't upset the old fans of the IP.

  • ThunderbullThunderbull MoscowPosts: 4Member Uncommon

    While i think that some author's points could be proven or not only after release, i want to give some info about first two point.

     

    p.1 May be dear author is just a noob? Did you lvled a couple of 99ers? I mean HC surely, because SC is for newbs.

    MOST maps had predicted mapping, and some (like a2 palace) - are same in every game.

    Just spend couple of years in D2 and you will know it.

     

    p.2 ROFLMAO????? Almost all item gear in D2 are uniq or set, only pvp could use some blue socketed or rare items, even craft is the only small part of D2 pro equipment.

    go play dota nad find buriza-do-kuannon. Blizz made bowazon a deadly killer but after 1.10 - she became a dead meat, - and titans+tg+storm - ruuuuuuuuuullles.

     

     

    p.s. oh p.3 as well

    first levels of D1 - aren't demonic at all. There are just a bit of demons while there are a lot of skellys and other udeads. This is Tristram, baby! :D

     

     

    p.p.s. can't stop cry. p.4

    if you can't see the Sun it is doesn't means dr. Blowhole destroyed it :D

    Each skill still has level req, also there are passive skills, also there are rune to burst the skill.

    IT IS JUST OTHER way, imagine 4d array of skills, it is gr8 again!

     

     

    p.p.p.s. dear thread author, sorry for my smiles. but even p.5 is.... strange? :)

     

    to sum it up: this is D3. mix of random and predefined dungeons, scripted quests and sudden fights, demons and undeads from different religions and history of other countries, great UNIQUE spirit and unique drop.

     

    for those who know: keke yuo giev soj?

    42 is the answer

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Isn't the beta only one chapter of the story?

    You really think they are going to send you to the depth of Hell in the opening chapters?

     

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,907Member Uncommon
    Just a friendly advice...go and check Path of Exile(and steer well away from fanbois).

    If you are willing to say stuff Like this here...then prepare to be incinerated by fanbois.
  • expressoexpresso mePosts: 2,208Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    This game will be good.  It will be hot.  It might be the new black!  It will be hard to beat, and a AAA title for sure.  I wouldn't want to bet on box sales or broken records, because this game will redefine dungeon crawlers for years to come......

    #1 Labyrinthine Hellishness

    Dungeons are random, in layout, mobs and loot.

    #2 Gear generated on the spot.

    D3 has random stat gear.

    #3  Demonic Themes

    So you've not even watched a beta video? please do and you'll have your answer.

    #4 Skills

    D3 has a completly different system, were by max level each class has around 120 skills they chan choose to use.

    #5 Dark themes

    Please watch a beta video, then go watch a d2 video (rather than trying to remember how it was), you'll agree D3 is darker.

     

  • NivisiruNivisiru Spokane, WAPosts: 186Member Uncommon

    Every point you made is wrong, did you not watch any of the game play walk throughs the press have been pumping out? Even if not all of this has been addressed on many diablo sites, including the main site.

     

    #1 Labyrinthine Hellishness

    Every dungeon is random, just like the two games before it. The only parts not random are the towns and some of the outside area just outside of town. Kinda like the second game. What they have shown, is only a small % of the very first act. They said the main outside area's will be random just like the dungeons are and always have been.

    #2 Gear generated on the spot.

    Its still random, its not like WoW. They will have named gear with random and fixed attributes, along with none named random generated loot,  just like the second game.

    #3  Demonic Themes

    MOON PHYSICS!!! As in blood and body parts flying all over the place, how is that not diablo and dark for you? So much of what you are saying is based off such a small part of the game, and you got most of it wrong...WTH?

    #4 Skills

    Diablo 2  and Diablo 1 both have dif skill systems. Why is 3 having a new one such a shock? They changed it between 1 and 2, why can't they do it again for 3? I think the new system looks nothing like WoW, THANK GOD! Did you want them to keep the WoW boring skill system that has been way over used in TONS of games? 

     

    Diablo must have list: 

    Random Dungeons, check

    Random loot generator, check

    Rare Named Loot with fixed and random attributes, check (Diablo 2 had this, not the same as WoW %100 fixed loot)

    Unique skill system, check

    Multi acts, check

    Multiple difficulties, check (even added one more)

    Hell mode, check

    PvP, check

     

    I'm sure I'm missing something else, but I don't get WHY you think this is anything but a diablo game. Yes you can put in that list into another dungeon clawer, but they are not in the world of diablo. This has the citys, NPC, ART STYLE. Like come on? I just don't understand.

  • paterahpaterah ThessalonikiPosts: 578Member

    You terrified me when you said non-random gear and I had to run to google to check. WTF check your facts dude.

  • Spectre100Spectre100 Newberry, INPosts: 1Member

    The part I enjoyed is where the OP said that the game should have been named along the Warcraft line and not call it Diablo at all.

    When you consider the similarities, WoW is basically MMO Diablo gameplay elements from the first/third person POV and slammed into the Warcraft canon.  

    ...i mean, really?

  • zethcarnzethcarn Kentucky, KYPosts: 1,558Member Uncommon

    I vote for "Mother F***ing Diablo 3!!"  What do you think?

  • DiSpLiFFDiSpLiFF Toronto, ONPosts: 605Member

    its clear you have no clue what you are talking about, or are just a blizzard hater. It's ok ignorance is bliss

  • jvxmtgjvxmtg San Diego, CAPosts: 371Member

    Did the OP test drive D3 or something else completely? All his points doesn't make any sense and it sounds like they're all based on hearsays.

    Someone's been feeding you bad info bro.


    Ready for GW2!!!
    image
  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member



    Originally posted by Nivisiru
    Every point you made is wrong, did you not watch any of the game play walk throughs the press have been pumping out? Even if not all of this has been addressed on many diablo sites, including the main site.
     
    My points are all wrong, eh? More likely, I am just harder to please in certain ways than most followers of this game.

    #1 Labyrinthine Hellishness
    "Diablo 1 was a game in which you would descend into dark dungeons, layer by layer, until you emerged with the power kick the crap out of the devil himself." Yeah the first game maybe, but not the second one all that much. From what they have said, the dungeons and layout will be a lot like the second game. 
    Every dungeon is random, just like the two games before it. The only parts not random are the towns and some of the outside area just outside of town. Kinda like the second game. What they have shown, is only a small % of the very first act. They said the main outside area's will be random just like the dungeons are and always have been.
    OH. I missed this info. Hey, even people like me make mistakes.

    #2 Gear generated on the spot.
    Its still random, its not like WoW. They will have named gear with random and fixed attributes, along with none named random generated loot,  just like the second game.
    My big beef with it's that there is a finite "Best in Slot" system in place. That just wasn't so in the old days. Why is it that Borderlands, an FPS/RPG hybrid, can do this better than Diablo 3?
    #3  Demonic Themes
    MOON PHYSICS!!! As in blood and body parts flying all over the place, how is that not diablo and dark for you? So much of what you are saying is based off such a small part of the game, and you got most of it wrong...WTH?
    Yeah, it's M-rated. I guess we should be glad they didn't shank the whole deal by switching to a Teen rating (like those idiots at Obsidian did with Dungeon Siege 3). That has nothing to do with my complaint though. I want pentagrams, satanism, child possession, upside down crosses, torture, betrayal, dark rituals, blasphemy, and cowardice, to name some of the more crucial touches. Maybe they're in there late in the game, but the stuff I've seen is underwhelming in this department. You've played Doom 3 and Diablo 1 both, I assume?

    #4 Skills
    Diablo 2  and Diablo 1 both have dif skill systems. Why is 3 having a new one such a shock? They changed it between 1 and 2, why can't they do it again for 3? I think the new system looks nothing like WoW, THANK GOD! Did you want them to keep the WoW boring skill system that has been way over used in TONS of games? 
    You know, I can somewhat reserve judgment on this aspect. We'll see. I'm not expecting much.  


    As for those who said there is dark and gothic footage on youtube, where? I've checked about 15 vids on yourube. None of them have the correct theme I am talking about, at all. Yes, the game has darkened between the ancient previews and now, but it's just not dark or gothic enough. Actually, it isn't gothic at all, and this disturbs me.

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  • expressoexpresso mePosts: 2,208Member Uncommon

    dark rituals;

    Much cooler summoning ritual in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NgKG6_GYm8&feature=related (@ 10:20)

    pentagrams;

     

  • tavoctavoc Posts: 257Member Uncommon

    Alot of people feal like the game has become more bright and vibrant.. fruity..

    It has done this... its not as dark as it used to be but hey... it happens i guess.

    image

  • NivisiruNivisiru Spokane, WAPosts: 186Member Uncommon

    Well your not going to be running around in Hell at lvl 1. You need room to grow and get darker as you go up in lvls. You could all be right, but no one knows right now. Too little has been seen.

  • SenanSenan Tuscaloosa, ALPosts: 784Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

     






    Originally posted by Nivisiru

    Every point you made is wrong, did you not watch any of the game play walk throughs the press have been pumping out? Even if not all of this has been addressed on many diablo sites, including the main site.

     

    My points are all wrong, eh? More likely, I am just harder to please in certain ways than most followers of this game.

    #1 Labyrinthine Hellishness

    "Diablo 1 was a game in which you would descend into dark dungeons, layer by layer, until you emerged with the power kick the crap out of the devil himself." Yeah the first game maybe, but not the second one all that much. From what they have said, the dungeons and layout will be a lot like the second game. 

    Every dungeon is random, just like the two games before it. The only parts not random are the towns and some of the outside area just outside of town. Kinda like the second game. What they have shown, is only a small % of the very first act. They said the main outside area's will be random just like the dungeons are and always have been.

    OH. I missed this info. Hey, even people like me make mistakes.

    #2 Gear generated on the spot.

    Its still random, its not like WoW. They will have named gear with random and fixed attributes, along with none named random generated loot,  just like the second game.

    My big beef with it's that there is a finite "Best in Slot" system in place. That just wasn't so in the old days. Why is it that Borderlands, an FPS/RPG hybrid, can do this better than Diablo 3?

    #3  Demonic Themes

    MOON PHYSICS!!! As in blood and body parts flying all over the place, how is that not diablo and dark for you? So much of what you are saying is based off such a small part of the game, and you got most of it wrong...WTH?

    Yeah, it's M-rated. I guess we should be glad they didn't shank the whole deal by switching to a Teen rating (like those idiots at Obsidian did with Dungeon Siege 3). That has nothing to do with my complaint though. I want pentagrams, satanism, child possession, upside down crosses, torture, betrayal, dark rituals, blasphemy, and cowardice, to name some of the more crucial touches. Maybe they're in there late in the game, but the stuff I've seen is underwhelming in this department. You've played Doom 3 and Diablo 1 both, I assume?

    #4 Skills

    Diablo 2  and Diablo 1 both have dif skill systems. Why is 3 having a new one such a shock? They changed it between 1 and 2, why can't they do it again for 3? I think the new system looks nothing like WoW, THANK GOD! Did you want them to keep the WoW boring skill system that has been way over used in TONS of games? 

    You know, I can somewhat reserve judgment on this aspect. We'll see. I'm not expecting much.  





    As for those who said there is dark and gothic footage on youtube, where? I've checked about 15 vids on yourube. None of them have the correct theme I am talking about, at all. Yes, the game has darkened between the ancient previews and now, but it's just not dark or gothic enough. Actually, it isn't gothic at all, and this disturbs me.

    I think the main reason it doesn't (nor likely ever will) seem as dark and gritty as the first two diablo games is simply because of the new graphics engine/style being used. The originals had that really visceral, almost cartoon-ish style to them and there was tons of gritty detail to everything because image clarity didn't need to be a focus. Since they were working with a isometric 2D engine they had the leverage to add an amazing amount of detail, akin to even some of the most detailed artwork (think spawn comics), while still keeping a "smoothness" to the visuals even when in motion. We hadn't come very far in the 3D realm back at that point, but they made up for it with some really impressive 2D games, and D2 was/is top-notch in that category.

    With D3, since they're using a 3D engine (albeit keeping with the isometric style), there's a much bigger focus on image clarity and I think it's that clarity that causes the game to seem less dark and foreboding. It actually seems a bit ironic lol.

    In other words, I don't think it matters what kinds of symbols or themes they add into D3, new or old. It will likely never feel as dark and twisted as the older games due to the tech differences being more advanced and the style taking advantage of that advancement. Afterall, it would be difficult to expect the majority of people (particularly kids and teens) to accept and even buy a game with graphics resembling of Diablo 2 in this day and age.

    Despite the differences, I actually enjoy the new style and I plan to play the heck out of the game once it's finally released. Whether it deserves the title of Diablo 3 or not... well, I'll have to wait until I play it extensively before I make that judgement.

    image
  • NivisiruNivisiru Spokane, WAPosts: 186Member Uncommon

    I really don't think it looks less "dark" then the second one. The first and the second one are a lot dif, but the third and second look about the same. I'm sorry, but running around in the dessert and jungle was not all that dark to me.  

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,341Member Uncommon

    Totally sounds like you would rather play Diablo I and II. They are still availiable so have at it.

    I am looking forward to part 3 but I was never HARDCORE into the series to begin with. So whatever.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • just2duhjust2duh City, NSPosts: 1,290Member

     That's pretty much how I feel about all returning game series lately.. They either do not deserve the name association or would be better preceived if it had not gone under the same name with the expectations it implies.

     (The new Driver/Ace Combat/Neverwinter just off the top of my head)

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Posts: 2,473Member Uncommon

     

    I have to disagree at almost every single point you made.  As far as the dark/demonic themes go, how would you even know this?  Even if you're in the beta, you've only seen the first chapter of the first act in the game.  Did you design the levels?  Level design does seem randomly generated a little bit, though it's quite obvious that some areas are static.  I personally like it better than Diablo 1 because the layered dungeon approach got a bit boring IMO.  There are still randomly generated items as well as unique developer crafted items, you lost me on this point.  The skill system is fine.  Diablo 1 barely even had any skill system outside of spells.  You're mad because they are balancing the skill system?  Huh, interesting.

     

    It's quite obviously a Diablo game.  It may not be as dark and demonic as some people would like, but it's certainly a very good evolution of previous versions and other action RPG's that have released recently.


  • TalRashaTalRasha GroningenPosts: 827Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Souldrainer

    #1 Labyrinthine Hellishness

    Diablo 1 was a game in which you would descend into dark dungeons, layer by layer, until you emerged with the power kick the crap out of the devil himself.  The descent through the rings of hell was a parallel to the classic Dante's Inferno story.  Dungeons throughout the whole game were randomly generated.  Yup, for those who have not played, a game created in the 1990s had 100% random generated maps.  There were no step-by step walkthroughs.  It's good to see that this returned (mostly intact) to Diablo 2.  Diablo 3 seems to have static dungeons.  What a joke.

    The joke is on you. Diablo3 will have random dungeons.

    Overland areas will be static and key parts of the story will be static, dungeons will be random.

    #2 Gear generated on the spot.

    This is where WOW loses me.  Sure they have things like The Deadly Bow of Snakes, but the items are created and detailed like that ahead of time.  WOW did not use an item creator where items where (random prefix) + (random item) + (random suffix).  It looks as if "Diablo" 3 may be going the WOW route, even down to detailing the BEST items in game.  "Best In Slot" was never a term to be used in this series, and the fact that they're going this route kills me.  I'd rather not have the game balanced at all, than lose my random items.  Perhaps I will have to play Borderlands for my Diablo itemization fix?

    Wrong again.

    You should have a look at the items on Blizzards official site. They are going the same route as Diablo2, even adding random properties to pre-defined unique items, so it's even more random than the Diablo2 items.

    #3  Demonic Themes

    Pentagrams, burning upside down crosses, lakes of blood.  Mutilated corpses.  Basically, think of the Doom series when you do your tilesets, and you are on the right path.  I've yet to see anything demonic in Diablo 3 though.

    There are still mutilated corpses, even visible in the beta. Not as heavily mutilated as in Diablo1, but it won't be much different from Diablo2.

    #4 Skills

    WOW is not the series that invented skill trees.  Skill trees were more a part of Diablo 2, but  Diablo 1 did some things better than Diablo 2 IMO, because you could learn skills outside your base class.  Nevertheless, Diablo 2 was the first game to feature skill trees that resemble the talents you see in most MMOs today.  It was good to see this in WOW, but now it's gone from Diablo?  This gets a massive WTF from me.

    As you said, Diablo1 did not have skill trees either. Should Diablo1 have a different name too?

    #5 Dark themes

    Diablo 1-2 were gothic at the very heart of their artwork.  The mixture of Doom-style and Medieval-goth was a sure hit back in the day.  D3 doesn't exactly look like WOW IMO, but it does not match these old elements.  Sometimes Diablo 1-2 would get so dark, that players would search out items that generated light.  In some dungeons, you never knew what lurked beyond your tiny field of vision.  This was also true of the Warcraft series of old, although it had a much more whimsical "fog of war" thing going on.  In D3 it's gone.

    I did not really find Diablo2 all that gothic either.

  • TE5LATE5LA Conway, ARPosts: 31Member Common

    To the video narrator:

    It isn't  "die-AB-low", it's pronounced "dee-AH-blow".

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,891Member Uncommon

    Stop spreading your blasphemous uninformed opinions. As a proud Diablo fanboy, everyone who spreads lies about this amazing game will be tortured and mutilated.

    On all 5 points you've made you have shown that you clearly don't have a clue about Diablo 3. You can go play your MMO grinder or hello kitty online now ;D

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • lynshakelynshake newyourk, NVPosts: 26Member

    no matter what it called i will have try when come out .Enjoy thegame not the name of the game

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