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SWTOR wont be the game that wont make us fall back in love with MMOs.
Venekor
Member Posts: 62
I will be comparing most things to WoW because it really has changed so much about the MMOs previous to it that they're all copying it now. I mean I remember Everquest being played always in First person and you just stood still and hit a button every 20 seconds, it was just that slow back when I played it. Also you leveled up purely on grinding and World of Warcraft was really the first MMO to change all that and make it so you can go through to the last level purely on quests. I know games like Everquest 2 (which launched like a week or so earlier) were going that way but you still had to grind a lot as there weren't enough quests.
For the vast majority people do not like MMOs because of the way they play with the World of Warcraft like combat. I speak to most real world people and they hate how slow it is and how it isn't based on twitch based skill. Also things like Subscriptions put every single of my friends off, they just wont pay a subscription to play a game, even though they pay an Xbox live fee.... go figure
From what I've played at events like Gamescom and from what I've seen and heard from podcasts who have actually had lots of hands on time, SWTOR plays pretty much like WoW. That is an obvious thing for anyone to see, however Bioware keep making out it'll big this massive change due to storytelling and it really wont be.
SWTOR is WoW but with a few differences Bioware are known for and anyone who tries to argue different is just blind. We get this same whole thing on this forum where people defend a game as just lie about it because they're caught up in the hype. Sorry to tell you but the first thing I did in SWTOR (I'm not in any beta, just played at events in Europe) was a kill 10 rats like quest, I had a look at the talent trees, the UI was very familar, the combat felt a lot like a poorer version of WoW and played a Battleground lol.
I'm not slagging SWTOR, it'll be a very good game and that's fine, however it is not that next generation of MMOs that a lot of us want on these forums. If you're sick of WoW like MMOs then wait for like Planetside 2 or something, if you buy this game then you'll most likely be on these forums complaining that it hasn't changed the genre and you're sick of MMOs all over again.
Comments
SW;TOR might not be changing the genre, but.. does it need changing in the first place, WoW made MMO's popular, before WoW came around the most popular game was EQ, and that was grindy as hell, and very much a niche game despite its Evercrack reputation, i don't think it even attained half a million players, EQ2 was probably SOE's response to WoW, and like SWG's NGE. although the game 'worked' it just wasnt all that much fun to play.. even now several revisions of the game later.. it just doesnt cut it.. SW;TOR if anything i would say is also a game thats meant to have broader appeal, its not a 'variation' of WoW, but it does use mechanics that have shown to work in WoW, though no matter how much the game is lauded for its voiceovers, more of the same isnt really new.. its just more of the same, more a gimmick than a game feature, having said that i have no doubt that people will like it, though for how long and how many, remains to be seen, certainly, the games success or failure will not be affected by that particular 'feature' but by how well the game plays, if the gameplay itself is 'addictive' as is WoW's then its likely the game will succeed.. as long as there are numerous quest/storylines to keep people entertained, then all they have to worry about is how well the end game PvP and Raiding (or whatever passes for that) is... hardcore players will reach that in a few weeks, the more casuals in perhaps just a couple of months, if SW;TOR will suffer for anything, it will be the lack of variation in the classes available, several more would have been better than focusing so much on the jedi variants, that and the assignation of some of the classes, is more than a little questionable.. smugglers and bounty hunters being the most obvious ones..
for those who are already dissilusioned with the current crop of MMO's there is likely nothing in this game that will change that, i doubt even GW2 will change that, as it has more in common with WoW and SW;TOR than differences
SWTOR wont be the game that wont make us fall back in love with MMOs.
So it will in fact make us fall back in love with MMOs?
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Yes!
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My brand new bloggity blog.
Is this a Clone of a Cloned thread that people keep bringing up over and over again?
First of all i have not played one minute of SWTOR so i base what i have to say on the OP,who says he has played both Wow and SWTOR.
The op talks about a lesser version of Wow and a game that basically plays like Wow.Ok fair enoguh i can't argue and it is quite possible however.......
The op only played a very small amount of the game,actually far less than what i have played in Wow.I have played several classes in several zones always to about level 30 or so,that is a decent amount of various gameplay.
What i noticed was extremely shallow combat design,i am talking eat a sandwich and literally spam the hotbar without a care of what icon i am even spamming.OK perhaps the quests will be the same go kill 10 rats,i am not doubting that simplicity as devs are just lazy and cheap.However to say SWTOR's combat will be weaker than Wow's i find pretty much impossible to beleive,how could it get any more shallow?
What i have seen of SWTOR's combat is not a whole lot,i did manage to see a very in depth narrated BOSS fight which showed me a lot more combat structure than Wow has,i mean a LOT more.If SWTOR can carry that type of combat throught out the game and not just on BOSS or instance battles,then it is imo a better combat game than Wow.
BTW my gaming experience starts from level 1,from the first minute i step into a game,so please don't try to defend Wow's weak combat system by telling me about some Raid you were in at level 70 or something.The same will go for SWTOR,if it cannot deliver the same structure i saw in that video,then it will fail at providing a fun combat experience as i am not about to wait long periods in between to find a good fight.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I love me, I fell out of love with me but god I'm so back in love with myself and MMO's now!
Yes, it is part of the holy trinity of Tor bashing arguments which we'll probably never get rid off. Even post launch. My opinions on each pillar in orange (not that it will ever stop the flow of people repeating these ad nauseam).
1. It's WOW in a SW skin
There are similarities but many differences too. To name but a few differences: full voice overs, choice and meaningful alignment, much more overlapping roles, no cross server dungeon finder, companions with rich functionality, personal spaceships.
2. It's an online single player game
There are many aspect in Swtor which can be enjoyed when alone, but devs have stated again and again that it is intended as a complete mmo and that socializing will be stimulated. A few multi player facets: flashpoints, heroic quests, operations, world bosses, social points to reward grouping up, warzones, world pvp with objectives.
3. It's not innovating the genre
Maybe not in how fast paced the combat is, or by its predetermined factions and classes, but there are innovating aspects as well: full voice overs (again) and having choice and meaningful alignment (again) and the rich storylines are in fact innovating for mmorpgs and promise to be an evolution from the cookie cutter, boring, leveling process in WOW and others. But also the blend of companions and crafting is new to the genre (as far as I know).
My brand new bloggity blog.
Not necessarily... the world is so didactic, and that is why we usually fall into such logical fallacies.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Personally I don't think any game will ever capture those great first moments you had with
your favorite MMO. Once I stopped expecting them to do that the new MMOs became a little more better and easier to tolerate!
So... SWTOR will make us fall back in love with MMOs? or.... what??
Or am I missing something? ?_?
For me, I have no doubt SWTOR will make me fall in love with MMOs again.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
In English it is necessarily....
English is not a language with negative concord (double negations reinforce each other instead of cancelling each other out).
Though he may speak a language that does have negative concord and lack sufficient knowledge of English to realize his mistake.
Anyway, not really something to get into a discussion over. Was merely pointing out that his title doesn't match his post, which amused me.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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Yes it does. Needs changed back the way older mmo's were. All wow did was open the genre to younger folks. Because WOW really didnt offer a lot of features other games had at the time. Everyone says WOW clone this and WOW clone that, but where did WOW get its ideas from...... other mmo's.
Todays mmo's are made for kids, not adults in general. MMO's today are nothing more than console style rpgs with lots of eye candy. Half the features from older games, you just dont see anymore. There is no decay, death penalties, crafting, housing, etc. Games lead you in a direction, not allowing you to explore, work things out, use strategy much at all.
I think WOW was such a big success due tothe fact of the franchise, time allowed to make it good, money, and whatever else. Remember WOW had a pretty rocky start on opening week. Now every company is trying to copy the WOW epidemic (
). Instead of trying new things, coming up with new ideas, or trying to be greedy with a half finished game they expect everyone to flock to. MMO's have lost their way because everyone wants to be like WOW and get that 10mil+ accounts. Its sickening what mmo's have become today.
I do hope TOR, GW2, and/or archeage go big. Im close to giving up on MMO's all together. Well REAL mmo's anyways not these half ass games that are released every other week.
My opinion in general, but im sure older gamers agree somewhat.
its impossible to grade a game on how good it looks, if visuals were the most important criteria then AoC would have pwned everything when it was released... and while im not particularly a fan of the graphics styling used in SW;TOR, there is no doubt in my mind that there will be a great many who will like them, certainly WoW didnt suffer for the cartoonish stylising of the graphics, and if the biggest game on the planet gets by with it.. i don't realy see SW;TOR having a problem either.. if anything, the games with the best graphics seem to have a habit of failing.. or at least.. not exactly doing all that well.. so if GW2 is a game thats pinned its success on graphics.. oops.. .. good job they didnt
as i see it.. SW;TOR will be for the general MMO player who likes storylines/quests, not exactly a shortage of them either... GW2 will most likely be for the more competitive PvP type of player.. which, imo at least, is probably a smaller demographic by far.., and.. WoW will still be WoW..
I honestly am not sure what to think of SWTOR. As one who grew up with the original movies and toys (Which I wish I still had because a lot of them are worth a mint now), I was really excited to hear a Star Wars MMO was coming out...especially when created by Bioware. But the more I see from the MMO community, the less I am wanting to play it.
And this isn't because I take people's opinions as "the word". I could care less what other's think of a game until I try it myself. It's simply the fact that if these people are the one's I'd be playing the game with, then no thanks. So many ignorant and misinformed statements and rants. The more I see, the more I tend to think I'm going to have to endure hundreds of elitist jerks with names like Hawn Solo, Boobie Fett, Leet Skywalker that are going to whine and whine until Bioware caves and makes the game just...well....unbearably easy and bland.
It's the community that ruins MMO's these days. Some before release (alphas/betas/official forum rants), and others after it.
I now exactly how you feel and agree.
I was watching a friend play for a little while yesterday. To me it just seemed like it takes 5 times longer to pick up a pretty generic quest. But I was strangely into it. The combat is nothing new at all, but it still looked pretty good for what it is.
Another friend was bitching about the same thing, going on about wow killing MMO's blah, blah, blah. So I say to him, "You know, instead of thinking about this game like some next gen MMO Jesus that is supposed answer all the nerd MMO prayers around the world, just think of it as a really kick ass sequel to the original Knights of the Old Republic that you can play with your friends."
He replied with a simple, "Ya... I really did like that game."
Much like Rift, there is enough production value and care put into the game to make it worth playing through I think. I got a good couple months of fun out of Rift and walked away happy. I havn't seen anything that will stop me from doing the same with KoTOR.
While I can't completely disagree with you, the fact remains that the sort of people you described, will likely only play for a month, maybe two, before they drop out and go on to the next game they can rant about. The real fans and hardcore players will be the ones to stick around, and you'll often find that those people are much better company. This doesn't mean that the game will eventually be without such elitist jerks. But hey, that's why it's so good that you can usually ignore such people and just play the game however you want right?
As for Bioware caving in to their demands... That remains to be seen. I'm still placing my faith in them as a whole, and I wish to see the game succeed and be around for years to come.
to the OP: stop spending your time trying to explain something people don't wan't to read. It's the same masquerade at each launch. All mmos failed, but it seems players doesnt have memory. Pointless.
I am a strong beleiver that SW:TOR will be very good at what it is supposed to do... Give people an immersive story based world...with classic MMO gameplay.
Thats why i am going to play it, and probably enjoy it...
Tough maybe another game could change the way we currently think about MMO's. Its not SW:TOR
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Yes... we get it.. SW:TOR will be a lot like WoW in terms of gameplay. The majority isn't disagreeing with that so can we stop making new threads about it?
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"-Voltaire
I agree with you. It is almost impossible to escape these days. SWG had more Hawns, Boobies and Leets than I could have believed. In a game where you were supposed to "experience the greatest saga ever told...yours" most people just wanted to be luke. Tor will be no different.
This is the sad part. I was in Rift beta...it was interesting enough, but it wore thin quickly. MMORPG's aren't suppose to keep you interested for just a few months like a console game does (Sometimes less than that). Hell...I am back playing EQ1 and having a blast! Typed /played to see my character has logged 6 years and 278days play time. How many MMO's these days can boast holding players that long.....other than WoW possibly. But one thing I am willing to bet WoW won't accomplish is staying afloat for 13+years. The community has a MUCH shorter attention span now compared to years past.
as an older gamer, i don't exactly disagree on some of the points, i did play Everquest for several years, and it was grindy as hell, i still remember hunting orcs or whatever they were for the belts to trade them in at freeport for xp.. and a bit of cash.. before moving onto ro and the crocs there..etc.. EQ was grind levels until raid level.. even the lost dungeons expansion was just another method of creating instanced dungeons to speed up the levelling process, they didnt even have much in the way of variety... though.. i have to say.. i loved the game, but as much as i liked EQ back then, WoW improved fantasy MMO's exponentially for me, and .. given its current playerbase.. a great many others too, its not Blizzards fault that other MMO companies ruined their own games trying to mirror Blizzards success, as for the 'unfinished' MMO's that have been released in the last few years, they have paid the price.. and hopefully lessons have been learned, Trions Rift surely is a sign of improvement in that respect, and i doubt anyone seriously thinks that Bioware would allow their game to be released in an unfinished state. And with so many MMO's at or near release, it would be extremely bad business to release an unfinished game now anyway..
Perhaps what you need isnt a new style of MMO, but a break from MMO's for a while.. Burnout does happen, but its a bit like being an alcoholic, before you can address the problem, you need to admit there is one..
Ah-ha!
Well said & just how I feel also!
"Huntress"
This big time! I ve never experienced or lasted in an MMO since day 1 to 7 years later of DAOC. I was in awe, and couldn t wait to log in every day.
That said, I can say that I will (do) enjoy SWTOR. Moreso then any game I ve played, which is alot, since I ve left DAOC. It really is a good game.