Who would have thought that a 5 minute trek to a dungeon entrance was the glue holding the MMO community together for all this time...
Seriously though, I'm happy to see this change. Anything that gets people playing together is a plus in m book regardless of whether or not they actually say anything to each other. My only concern is exactly how effective the dungeon finder is at levels below the cap. Of primary interest to me would be resubscribing to run some old RoK, TSO, and SF dungeons that I missed out on previously. This really should be cross server, but given the convoluted way SOE went about cross-server battlegrounds for EQ2, I wonder if that's even feasible.
Ok, I hate loathe detest cross server groups, especially after trying the mechanics in Rift.
If I am gonna group with silent automatons give me GW HM and heroes. When they DO speak under this system humans usually only do so to bitch, whine,or be a dick. And why not? They have nothing the lose by being so right?
But...
Single server systems like this just remove the need for there to be a leader to build groups, which is a great thing because the single biggest barrier to groups forming is the lack of one individual willing to shoulder the responsibility and effort and do just that.
So I thoroughly approve of EQ2 getting this at this stage. I will prolly go back and try it out.
I currently play a EQ2 Extended and a couple of thoughts.
1) The implementation didn't go that smoothly and for some reason the game kept kicking folks last evening every time they tried to zone. My guild chat was full of log on, log off messages all night. I didn't suffer from the problem though.
2) I'm in a zerg guild and despite all the problems last night not one person said they were leaving EQ2 over the addition of the dungeon finder, more seemed to welcome it.
3) You can't kill that which is already dead. EQ2 had very little grouping prior to the DF, and I doubt its addition is going to change much only because like most other modern MMO's, its still more efficient to run the solo quest train to advance your character.
For the "socialization" to come back to MMO's developers are going to have to design them to "force" group reliance on players and make sure there's big extra rewards for grouping. (a la old school DAOC, FFXI or EQ1). People tend to do things in terms of "enlightened self interest" and if the game design doesn't encourage/force/reward grouping and socialization, they aren't going to do it. In the current situation of solo quest game design, DF'ers make perfect sense.
4) Not sure why they say the DF is for level 20 and above, I took a look last night and the lowest (and only dungeon) near my level 28 Dirge was a level 30-40 one. There was also about 5 level 40-50 dungeons but I can't imagine joining one of them as I wouldn't be able to hit the mobs in them. (maybe healers can go in?)
5) Since a Dirge (bard) is a support class, I had hoped to use it for group support but so far I've only been in one dungeon run. (same amount that my solo friendly necromancer has done). I'm hoping the new DF presents me more opportunities to play the role my class is designed for.
Edit: Just logged in and now I have two dungeons on my list both level appropriate, 20-30 and 25-35, and none in the 40's and 50's. Not sure what criteria the game is using to display available choices. Perhaps its based on people already in a dungeon and LFM?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think the LFG tool had to come at some point and there will always be haters against it. In general I love the content EQ2 offers and this will surly help accessibility, but the biggest problem is the terrible engine that they dont seem to be able to update properly (like the SM3.0 FAIL) unlike other mmo companies, thats a thought for another topic though.
Dungeon finder is a great tool. Its so helpful for finding people. That being said.... I don't thinking having things like 'random dungeon with bonus rewards' is a good idea. The biggest point I see for dungeon finders is being able to actually find players for content you normally might not be able to, which means reaching possibly across server. Unfortuneately, this doesn't seem to be the case for EQ2 and for me, its kind of just killing the whole idea.
Apparently this is "Before you time", but "finding people" PRIOR to Dungeon Finder meant socializing in the major hubs OR within your guild to find people to group with.
Now, everything is handed to you on a silver platter, and GUESS WHAT....the games feel like empty shells because of it. Dungeon Finder should be banned from ANY MMO except WoW, since that's ALL about handholding. Though, I've only played every single MMO that has ever been released, and I still believe DAOC, EQ, UO, Planetside, and Pre-NGE SWG were some of the BEST MMOs ever released.
If by 'before my time' you mean having to repeatedly spam "LF party for *Such and Such* I'm *Such and Such* then sorry but I've been there. Nothing social about finding the parties. Its what you do inside them that makes the social part.
Don't know what dillusional world you are from but considering you basically said you have played in every single game and apparently you find flawed aspects of a game as being 'real' while improvements on them are 'hand holding' I can only expect your the type of person who picked up an old NES game with terrible controls then played Super Mario and went "Wow this game is so handicapped, its obviously holding all the casuals hands and not that it has actually good controls." Get over your self there silly. The whole point of getting a party is to socialize, spamming chat has not and always will not be a way to 'socialize'. Its what happens in the party that is suppose to bring the social element in.
Majority of MMOs or games for that matter have some way to communicate with other people in the game. It really comes down to whether or not you are interested in interact with people. Remember it's still your decision to participate., an option.
LFG tool seems to be more geared to helping group people to achieve their goals, whether to complete a quest, or faster way to group people for dungeons. Rather than skipping content then going back as a high level player and finally complete that quest. Again, the option to socialize with others with this feature is still on you.
Dungeon finder is a great tool. Its so helpful for finding people. That being said.... I don't thinking having things like 'random dungeon with bonus rewards' is a good idea. The biggest point I see for dungeon finders is being able to actually find players for content you normally might not be able to, which means reaching possibly across server. Unfortuneately, this doesn't seem to be the case for EQ2 and for me, its kind of just killing the whole idea.
Apparently this is "Before you time", but "finding people" PRIOR to Dungeon Finder meant socializing in the major hubs OR within your guild to find people to group with.
Now, everything is handed to you on a silver platter, and GUESS WHAT....the games feel like empty shells because of it. Dungeon Finder should be banned from ANY MMO except WoW, since that's ALL about handholding. Though, I've only played every single MMO that has ever been released, and I still believe DAOC, EQ, UO, Planetside, and Pre-NGE SWG were some of the BEST MMOs ever released.
too bad the majority of the MMO community disagree with you. Otherwise we'd all still be playing thse games. let the old school live on in those grandfather games and either stick with them or learn to evolve
The "Majority" is not World of Warcraft kiddies. The "Majority" are true MMO players, and there's a reason games like Aion, Rift, and the like disappear from any REAL media after a couple months post-launch. They host WoW-copied systems that the MAJORITY do not want. Hence the current "down turn" in the MMO genre atm.
Ever wonder why crap games are being made lately? They're crap, because the MAJORITY perceive them to BE crap.
Also, to the random troll who claimed the community "asked" for this WoW system you're lieing through your proverbial teeth. The forums, and most notably in-game, have been on FIRE with people threatening to quit over this new system that WE the community apparently "asked for". SOE once again doing something without consulting their playerbase. Half my guild has already quit over it :'(.
Well I asked for it and several people in my guild asked for it and we all hate WoW so you're already wrong. It was asked for by people in the community. Good one.
Disappear from real media? So the qualification to be good is if it's popular in other forms of entertainment? If that's so then you just made a huge argument for WoW being awesome. For someone who seems to hate WoW it's odd that you would do that.
You can't prove at all that the majority of EQ2 players didn't want this. At all. Again, loudest minority in forums and chat channels don't count so you better start looking for more 'proof' that most people don't like it. People leaving certainly doesn't reflect that since most of the EQ2 subsctibers didn't quit over this. Some casual indiscriminately inviting guild being mad over it doesn't hold a whole lot of weight.
Anything else you want to claim that can easily be refuted?
Comments
Who would have thought that a 5 minute trek to a dungeon entrance was the glue holding the MMO community together for all this time...
Seriously though, I'm happy to see this change. Anything that gets people playing together is a plus in m book regardless of whether or not they actually say anything to each other. My only concern is exactly how effective the dungeon finder is at levels below the cap. Of primary interest to me would be resubscribing to run some old RoK, TSO, and SF dungeons that I missed out on previously. This really should be cross server, but given the convoluted way SOE went about cross-server battlegrounds for EQ2, I wonder if that's even feasible.
Ok, I hate loathe detest cross server groups, especially after trying the mechanics in Rift.
If I am gonna group with silent automatons give me GW HM and heroes. When they DO speak under this system humans usually only do so to bitch, whine,or be a dick. And why not? They have nothing the lose by being so right?
But...
Single server systems like this just remove the need for there to be a leader to build groups, which is a great thing because the single biggest barrier to groups forming is the lack of one individual willing to shoulder the responsibility and effort and do just that.
So I thoroughly approve of EQ2 getting this at this stage. I will prolly go back and try it out.
BUT...
No mentoring in it? WTF were they thinking?
I think it's a great feature! Can't wait to try it out tomorrow.
Too bad mentoring is not possible, but I think it will be included soon... players really want it.
Just came across this screenshot, it's from another game, but still funny :-)
http://www.questhard.com
I currently play a EQ2 Extended and a couple of thoughts.
1) The implementation didn't go that smoothly and for some reason the game kept kicking folks last evening every time they tried to zone. My guild chat was full of log on, log off messages all night. I didn't suffer from the problem though.
2) I'm in a zerg guild and despite all the problems last night not one person said they were leaving EQ2 over the addition of the dungeon finder, more seemed to welcome it.
3) You can't kill that which is already dead. EQ2 had very little grouping prior to the DF, and I doubt its addition is going to change much only because like most other modern MMO's, its still more efficient to run the solo quest train to advance your character.
For the "socialization" to come back to MMO's developers are going to have to design them to "force" group reliance on players and make sure there's big extra rewards for grouping. (a la old school DAOC, FFXI or EQ1). People tend to do things in terms of "enlightened self interest" and if the game design doesn't encourage/force/reward grouping and socialization, they aren't going to do it. In the current situation of solo quest game design, DF'ers make perfect sense.
4) Not sure why they say the DF is for level 20 and above, I took a look last night and the lowest (and only dungeon) near my level 28 Dirge was a level 30-40 one. There was also about 5 level 40-50 dungeons but I can't imagine joining one of them as I wouldn't be able to hit the mobs in them. (maybe healers can go in?)
5) Since a Dirge (bard) is a support class, I had hoped to use it for group support but so far I've only been in one dungeon run. (same amount that my solo friendly necromancer has done). I'm hoping the new DF presents me more opportunities to play the role my class is designed for.
Edit: Just logged in and now I have two dungeons on my list both level appropriate, 20-30 and 25-35, and none in the 40's and 50's. Not sure what criteria the game is using to display available choices. Perhaps its based on people already in a dungeon and LFM?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I fail to see how adding the possibility of actually encountering other players is "dumbing down."
I think the LFG tool had to come at some point and there will always be haters against it. In general I love the content EQ2 offers and this will surly help accessibility, but the biggest problem is the terrible engine that they dont seem to be able to update properly (like the SM3.0 FAIL) unlike other mmo companies, thats a thought for another topic though.
If by 'before my time' you mean having to repeatedly spam "LF party for *Such and Such* I'm *Such and Such* then sorry but I've been there. Nothing social about finding the parties. Its what you do inside them that makes the social part.
Don't know what dillusional world you are from but considering you basically said you have played in every single game and apparently you find flawed aspects of a game as being 'real' while improvements on them are 'hand holding' I can only expect your the type of person who picked up an old NES game with terrible controls then played Super Mario and went "Wow this game is so handicapped, its obviously holding all the casuals hands and not that it has actually good controls." Get over your self there silly. The whole point of getting a party is to socialize, spamming chat has not and always will not be a way to 'socialize'. Its what happens in the party that is suppose to bring the social element in.
Majority of MMOs or games for that matter have some way to communicate with other people in the game. It really comes down to whether or not you are interested in interact with people. Remember it's still your decision to participate., an option.
LFG tool seems to be more geared to helping group people to achieve their goals, whether to complete a quest, or faster way to group people for dungeons. Rather than skipping content then going back as a high level player and finally complete that quest. Again, the option to socialize with others with this feature is still on you.
You can still do it old school!
Well I asked for it and several people in my guild asked for it and we all hate WoW so you're already wrong. It was asked for by people in the community. Good one.
Disappear from real media? So the qualification to be good is if it's popular in other forms of entertainment? If that's so then you just made a huge argument for WoW being awesome. For someone who seems to hate WoW it's odd that you would do that.
You can't prove at all that the majority of EQ2 players didn't want this. At all. Again, loudest minority in forums and chat channels don't count so you better start looking for more 'proof' that most people don't like it. People leaving certainly doesn't reflect that since most of the EQ2 subsctibers didn't quit over this. Some casual indiscriminately inviting guild being mad over it doesn't hold a whole lot of weight.
Anything else you want to claim that can easily be refuted?