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Neverwinter: Game Shifting to Action MMO

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  • etlaretlar Posts: 677Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Unshra

    Originally posted by etlar


    Originally posted by Unshra


    Originally posted by etlar


    Originally posted by wildtalent

    Come on people.  First of all, DDO is an action MMO and is widely successful .

    DnD was never an action game, nor was DD-Online. it was also, never widely succesfull. hence the change to f2p, the first mmo to make that change acually, which in turn made it succesfull,. by its own standards.

    Anarchy Online was the first MMO to make the switch followed by DDO, DDO just received more coverage by the news sites.

    well thats true enough, forgot about AO ! but my point still stands :)

    Oh I agree with your point fully, just didn't want little oh AO forgotten poor little thing is under everyones shadow and no one seems to remember that if it wasn't for AO we would still be waiting in line for raids. ^^

    oh the irony :) :)

    but i still remember fondly Ao when i tried the f2p version...actually i cant forget.. the movie commerials, or rather THE movive commercial was this; (or something like it)  " think we can make it, no, i KNOW we can make it outta here" from poseidon or something, never saw it though it haunted me in years :))

  • wildtalentwildtalent Huntsville, ALPosts: 380Member

    Originally posted by etlar

    Originally posted by wildtalent

    Come on people.  First of all, DDO is an action MMO and is widely successful .

    DnD was never an action game, nor was DD-Online. it was also, never widely succesfull. hence the change to f2p, the first mmo to make that change acually, which in turn made it succesfull,. by its own standards.

    First if you are going to quote me, put the whole quote up there. Don't clip it to fit your arguement.  I said it became widely successful after its free to play conversion. 

    Secondly D&D has always been a game that was what you make it.  I've played in and ran many a DnD game that was fairly fast paced and combat oriented.  I've also played in several that had no combat at all. 

    D&D online very much IS an action mmo.  Each attack happens instantly with the click of a mouse button.  Sure spells have cooldowns but they are spells.  All physical combat is twtich based. 

    image
  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Seattle, WAPosts: 1,082Member Uncommon

    I was never a big Neverwinter fan, but I have known about it's popularity. I gotta say that this is a big slap in the f-in face for you guys.

    I'm just glad Marvel Universe Online was never made by Cryptic.

    image

  • WorstluckWorstluck the valley, CAPosts: 1,269Member

    Heh.  Another reason to avoid this thing.  It reads to me like, they did not make enough content in the game, so they are calling it an action mmo.  DnD does not mix well with 'action MMO' in my humble opinion.

    image

  • etlaretlar Posts: 677Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by wildtalent

    Originally posted by etlar


    Originally posted by wildtalent

    Come on people.  First of all, DDO is an action MMO and is widely successful .

    DnD was never an action game, nor was DD-Online. it was also, never widely succesfull. hence the change to f2p, the first mmo to make that change acually, which in turn made it succesfull,. by its own standards.

    First if you are going to quote me, put the whole quote up there. Don't clip it to fit your arguement.  I said it became widely successful after its free to play conversion. 

    Secondly D&D has always been a game that was what you make it.  I've played in and ran many a DnD game that was fairly fast paced and combat oriented.  I've also played in several that had no combat at all. 

    D&D online very much IS an action mmo.  Each attack happens instantly with the click of a mouse button.  Sure spells have cooldowns but they are spells.  All physical combat is twtich based. 

    I Deeply apoligise for not taking your entire quote. but i do not see, how its makes it an action mmo just because i click and it happens in real time. the dice is still rolled.

  • grunt187grunt187 omaha, NEPosts: 956Member

    Originally posted by etlar

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I strongly suspect that the move to "action rpg" was not Cryptic's doing".

    No. you are right, its the moveof the genre........ Rpg as we know them are..dying. sadly. imagine your average teenage

    kid seeing an rpg, now imagine his reaction....hence the need for "action rpg"  which i hate seeing in my games, put action back to the console, and le me worry about action and tactics in a ...im ranting now..:)

    Pssst dont tell bioware about the rpg dying.

    The following statement is false
    The previous statement is true

  • etlaretlar Posts: 677Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by grunt187

    Originally posted by etlar


    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I strongly suspect that the move to "action rpg" was not Cryptic's doing".

    No. you are right, its the moveof the genre........ Rpg as we know them are..dying. sadly. imagine your average teenage

    kid seeing an rpg, now imagine his reaction....hence the need for "action rpg"  which i hate seeing in my games, put action back to the console, and le me worry about action and tactics in a ...im ranting now..:)

    Pssst dont tell bioware about the rpg dying.

    as you well know Bioware is our last hope they say ;)

  • AsheramAsheram Posts: 1,971Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by warmaster670

    Originally posted by fenistil

     

    Will be just another Action F2P MMO , bit of a shame that on D&D IP , which don't fit at all with 'action mmo' , but well meh.

     

    Really they're kinda like Uwe Boll lol.

     

    /not interested

    Uh, how exaclty does it not fit as an action mmo? theres no good reason why DnD doesnt fit as an action mmo.

    Yea I kind of dont understand that logic either,just because the pnp game was based on dice rolls doesnt mean the fantasy part of imagination wasnt playing out its part in the players head.I wonder if all those that are complaining about D&D and having actual action in it played the game more like playing on a craps table because somehow it doesnt seem like they are too happy about a developer trying to bring it to "actual" life.

    image
  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,417Member


    Originally posted by etlar

    Originally posted by grunt187

    Originally posted by etlar


    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I strongly suspect that the move to "action rpg" was not Cryptic's doing".
    No. you are right, its the moveof the genre........ Rpg as we know them are..dying. sadly. imagine your average teenage
    kid seeing an rpg, now imagine his reaction....hence the need for "action rpg"  which i hate seeing in my games, put action back to the console, and le me worry about action and tactics in a ...im ranting now..:)


    Pssst dont tell bioware about the rpg dying.


    as you well know Bioware is our last hope they say ;)

    so were doomed to mediocrity ... hopefully someday someone will realize that making a game easy for everyone to play, makes for a boring ass game.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • etlaretlar Posts: 677Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Asheram

    Originally posted by warmaster670


    Originally posted by fenistil

     

    Will be just another Action F2P MMO , bit of a shame that on D&D IP , which don't fit at all with 'action mmo' , but well meh.

     

    Really they're kinda like Uwe Boll lol.

     

    /not interested

    Uh, how exaclty does it not fit as an action mmo? theres no good reason why DnD doesnt fit as an action mmo.

    Yea I kind of dont understand that logic either,just because the pnp game was based on dice rolls doesnt mean the fantasy part of imagination wasnt playing out its part in the players head.I wonder if all those that are complaining about D&D and having actual action in it played the game more like playing on a craps table because somehow it doesnt seem like they are too happy about a developer trying to bring it to "actual" life.

    the problem is not action, its the lack of the need of communication BEFORE the action, that makes the difference. in  my huble opinion. and offcourse the fact its no an acion game, but an rpg, you knw?...roleplaying..

  • CyanKCyanK Montgomery, TXPosts: 20Member

    I reserve judgement until I see some gameplay videos and learn more about mechanics and game systems involved.

    This rush to judgement displayed by so many active members of the MMO community in general passed being cliche years ago, now it's just an annoyace having to scroll through a glut of doomsayers and negative nellies anytime a game gets announced just to find a substantive post or two.

    I wouldn't put much stock in a developers previous games as it weighs towards judging a new product from them either.

    Think of it this way, there are a myraid of bands and artists that have put out one sublime or genre altering album/song just to have the rest of their catalog be kinda meh or worse, unlistenable because it pales in comparasion to that one moment they got it perfect.

    ps

    http://occupywallst.org/

     



     

    image
  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon

    I am actually a loy more interested about the plot, how they succed making the world feel right and how the "make your own module" thing works out than the actual combat mechanics.

    It wasn't the clicking that made Diablo an action game instead of a RPG, it was the story, how they portrayed the npc and how the world was done.

    Sombat have nothing to do with if a game is a RPG or not, Bethesdas daggerfall is one of the best RPGs of all time and it was twitched based.

    Roleplaying is about telling and experience a great story, you can have a good RPG game with no violence at all or have one that is a bloody massacre.

    Compare Diablo and Baldurs gate. Diablos story: Go down to the bottom of the dungeon and kill Diablo, he is evil. Baldurs gate had loads of plot twists and told an interesting story. 

    I am not saying that RPGs is better or worse than action games however, just different.

    Frankly does the article sounds better than what Cryptic was pushing before, as long as I can make my own dungeon & story as was intended before of course. Say what you want about PWE but they clearly have been doing better than Cryptic and that Cryotic got bought up by them seems good to me.

  • EladiEladi ArnhemPosts: 1,100Member Uncommon

    its not crpytic, they are just the programmers, PW is the manager who tells them what to do.

    this tittle (to me) whit PW managing it toward a action mmo does not provoke any intrest the NW ip is a good one but I doubt they can translate the core of the game (character,traits,custom content) into sometime playable .

  • AsheramAsheram Posts: 1,971Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by etlar

    Originally posted by Asheram


    Originally posted by warmaster670


    Originally posted by fenistil

     

    Will be just another Action F2P MMO , bit of a shame that on D&D IP , which don't fit at all with 'action mmo' , but well meh.

     

    Really they're kinda like Uwe Boll lol.

     

    /not interested

    Uh, how exaclty does it not fit as an action mmo? theres no good reason why DnD doesnt fit as an action mmo.

    Yea I kind of dont understand that logic either,just because the pnp game was based on dice rolls doesnt mean the fantasy part of imagination wasnt playing out its part in the players head.I wonder if all those that are complaining about D&D and having actual action in it played the game more like playing on a craps table because somehow it doesnt seem like they are too happy about a developer trying to bring it to "actual" life.

    the problem is not action, its the lack of the need of communication BEFORE the action, that makes the difference. in  my huble opinion. and offcourse the fact its no an acion game, but an rpg, you knw?...roleplaying..

    Well the last time I looked those "roleplaying" games that you refer to still exist so grab your friends grab your paper and dice dress up in your role and play your game.

    image
  • TalonsinTalonsin Posts: 1,478Member Uncommon

    What a great idea, Cryptic has had so much success with its first two MMO's that the entire plan should be changed to make this third game an MMO too!  Oh, and its not like there is much competition in the F2P fantasy genre so this game should be a huge success!

     

    /sarcasm off

  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Adelaide, AKPosts: 953Member

    Originally posted by etlar

    Originally posted by wildtalent

    Come on people.  First of all, DDO is an action MMO and is widely successful .

    DnD was never an action game, nor was DD-Online. it was also, never widely succesfull. -SNIP-

     

    I would like to hear your defenition of action game then.

    D&DO originally required you to repeatedly cick your attacks onto creatures to do basic attacks (they eventually added auto attack by click & hold) and you had to chase and maintain striking distance using WASD. Monsters with ranged weapons would try to evade melee based attacks by moving around & staying at range requiring you to actively chase them not just click them with a mouse and let the computer do the work.

    Evasion of attacks and even traps required movement by the user and some traps were simply designed to push you off walkways, into enemies etc.. most of which could be avoided. Higher level dungeons have moving walkways & other obstacles which require some player reflexes and timing to overcome. A low level/skill rogue in the hands of a good player can be more effective than a high level/skill rogue on the hands of a crap player.

    D&DO melee combat feels more like a TPS than a standard MMORPG IMHO. D&DO was far more action based than any MMO I had played before it.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Eladi

    its not crpytic, they are just the programmers, PW is the manager who tells them what to do.

    this tittle (to me) whit PW managing it toward a action mmo does not provoke any intrest the NW ip is a good one but I doubt they can translate the core of the game (character,traits,custom content) into sometime playable .

    Obsidian had all those things and still were NWN 2 not a great game like the first, it was so-so.

    The original game was about the great story about love, betrayal and hatred, not about character traits.

    The question is if PWO can make something like that? The story of their other games are somewhat... bad. And Cryptics track record for great stories are not great either.

    Still, maybe they actually hire in a good writer to write the story and characters. In that case they might actually make a good game.

  • OsedaxOsedax Vernon, VTPosts: 16Member

    This game is now completely off my list.

     

    Sorry.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by TheCrow2k

    I would like to hear your defenition of action game then.

    D&DO originally required you to repeatedly cick your attacks onto creatures to do basic attacks (they eventually added auto attack by click & hold) and you had to chase and maintain striking distance using WASD. Monsters with ranged weapons would try to evade melee based attacks by moving around & staying at range requiring you to actively chase them not just click them with a mouse and let the computer do the work.

    Evasion of attacks and even traps required movement by the user and some traps were simply designed to push you off walkways, into enemies etc.. most of which could be avoided. Higher level dungeons have moving walkways & other obstacles which require some player reflexes and timing to overcome. A low level/skill rogue in the hands of a good player can be more effective than a high level/skill rogue on the hands of a crap player.

    D&DO melee combat feels more like a TPS than a standard MMORPG IMHO. D&DO was far more action based than any MMO I had played before it.

    The original version of D&D was indeed an action game, RPG is an overstatement for that. The first rules were just about controlling one or more minatures into a dungeon (it was called "Chainmail") and then they fleshed out the rules a little but it still was doubful as a RPG.

    AD&D changed all that and suddenly were the game about more than just hacking and slashing monsters in a dungeon. Settings like Dragon lance, Ravenloft and Forgotten realms added a lot of other aspects into the game. D&D 3rd went a lot further and there you could play a game with no combat whatsoever if you prefer that and instead gain XP from other type of challenges depending on what you like. Pathfinder continues this even further.

    D&D 4th edition went back to basics and are once again about just killing stuff, this time with a wowish feeling to it.

    DDO is kinda a hybrid. But it isn't the semi twitched based mechanics that does that but the focus on killing stuff instead of the focus on an actual story.

    Typical action games: Diablo 1 & 2, Dungeon siege 1 & 2, Daggerdale.

    Typical RPG: Elder scrolls, Baldurs gate 1 & 2, Fallout 1 & 2, Torment.

    If a story of a game is just "Go down in the dungeon and kill some monsters" it is an action game no matter of the mechanics.

    If the story is interesting and complicated with well fleshed out npcs it is a RPG.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    I blame Vindictus and Dragon Nest for this. As amazing as those two games are I don't want a bunch of copies of them and several companies are copying this idea. i want an open instanced world so I hope they change their minds. Gamania is doing the same thing with Core Blaze. Enough is enough. Jeeze, one game type is a big hit and other companies just jump on the band wagon!

    Smile

  • TheMaelstromTheMaelstrom Knoxville, TNPosts: 393Member

    Originally posted by Talthanys

    Ah, Cryptic. You are the Snidely Wiplash of the MMO genre, sneering grandly and waxing your handlebar moustache with but two oily fingers as you tie a respected and deserving Nell Fenwick to the traintracks.

    There was no Dudley Do-Right to save Star Trek. There shall be none to save Neverwinter. May you and Mythic's DIck Dastardly, with his erstwhile victim Warhammer IP, continue to be the champions of the shallow and inane, for without villains we'd see no heroes.

    But, seriously, stop it.

    Best. Post. Ever.

    No godless person can comprehend those minute distinctions
    in doctrine that provide true believers excuse for mayhem.
    -Glen Cook

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Razeekster

    I blame Vindictus and Dragon Nest for this. As amazing as those two games are I don't want a bunch of copies of them and several companies are copying this idea. i want an open instanced world so I hope they change their minds. Gamania is doing the same thing with Core Blaze. Enough is enough. Jeeze, one game type is a big hit and other companies just jump on the band wagon!

    On the other hand did they say that they would make the game with an open world instead as like a CORPG which they planned before, so it seems like they are inspired by those games but not cloning them at least.

  • AsamofAsamof La Canada, CAPosts: 738Member Uncommon

    cryptic studios?? lmao, so much for this game

  • EphesymEphesym Watertown, NYPosts: 11Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Eladi

    its not crpytic, they are just the programmers, PW is the manager who tells them what to do.

    this tittle (to me) whit PW managing it toward a action mmo does not provoke any intrest the NW ip is a good one but I doubt they can translate the core of the game (character,traits,custom content) into sometime playable .

    Obsidian had all those things and still were NWN 2 not a great game like the first, it was so-so.

    The original game was about the great story about love, betrayal and hatred, not about character traits.

    The question is if PWO can make something like that? The story of their other games are somewhat... bad. And Cryptics track record for great stories are not great either.

    Still, maybe they actually hire in a good writer to write the story and characters. In that case they might actually make a good game.

    The first Neverwinter, while having a great single player campaign, was about the toolset and dm client.  People creating content for their friends and then actively guiding them through the adventure.  

    I highly doubt that this will be the case for the new neverwinter.  Looks like its going to be more copy/paste bullcrap.

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,036Member Uncommon

    An action rpg would be more fun than most MMO combat.  Turn-based, or strategic would also be cool, but there's no real reason to diss an rpg for being action based.

    As far as I knew this game was always going to be action based though.

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