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SWTOR & WoW's COMBAT mechanics

SatariousSatarious Kansas City, MOPosts: 1,075Member

I actually liked WoW's combat mechanics.  The biggest gripe I had with WoW was their cop-out on the one thing that distinguishes an mmo from a single player game:  World PvP.  Instead, they went instance crazy in both pve and pvp.   Blizzard preferred to take the cheap way out and siphon everybody out of the world pvp with much more lucrative rewards in instanced Battlegrounds.  Granted, there are some who prefer the instanced combat.  But I suspect that most recognize that the true value of an MMORPG should be in the "massively multiplayer online" aspect of the genre.  That's what sets it apart from your standard single player rpg.  That's why you pay a $15 a month subscription vs. a one time purchase of a single player game.

Second, the game lore was pretty dull.  I suspect this was part of the reason why a large majority of players' primary reason for playing was for the phat lewts and status.  If there was something compelling about the game lore or its mechanic, things might have been different.

I believe that Bioware could potentially set itself apart on the above two points from WoW.  To me, that's more than enough innovation and change to bring a massive amount of people to the game and stick with it.  The details of the combat mechanics are such a minor consideration compared to the above two game mechanics, as far as I'm concerned.

Comments

  • NijrawNijraw All ABOUT, MEPosts: 37Member

    Originally posted by Satarious

    I actually liked WoW's combat mechanics.  The biggest gripe I had with WoW was their cop-out on the one thing that distinguishes an mmo from a single player game:  World PvP.  Instead, they went instance crazy in both pve and pvp.   Blizzard preferred to take the cheap way out and siphon everybody out of the world pvp with much more lucrative rewards in instanced Battlegrounds.  Granted, there are some who prefer the instanced combat.  But I suspect that most recognize that the true value of an MMORPG should be in the "massively multiplayer online" aspect of the genre.  That's what sets it apart from your standard single player rpg.  That's why you pay a $15 a month subscription vs. a one time purchase of a single player game.

    Second, the game lore was pretty dull.  I suspect this was part of the reason why a large majority of players' primary reason for playing was for the phat lewts and status.  If there was something compelling about the game lore or its mechanic, things might have been different.

    I believe that Bioware could potentially set itself apart on the above two points from WoW.  To me, that's more than enough innovation and change to bring a massive amount of people to the game and stick with it.  The details of the combat mechanics are such a minor consideration compared to the above two game mechanics, as far as I'm concerned.

    I feel the same, I love the combat machanics of WoW, very polished, but the World or WoW is dead, to me its nothing more then a lobby game, if Swtor can nail World PvP,PvE,and Instant BG then we have a winner with the aready solid Star Wars lore.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,912Member Uncommon

    I agree OP, I prefer turn based combat in my MMO's. These games are about communication not twitch based action.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • RavingRabbidRavingRabbid Virginia beach, VAPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    I personally didint have an issue with WOW combat as long as the gameplay was good. As afar as the lore with WOW I had an issue because it got to the point that I got tired of reading lines of texts for my quests and skipped to what I needed to do. SWTOR's story based mechanics will be for me a breath of fresh air.

    ***Shows Padme Amidala how to line dance!***

    All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
    Playing: SWTOR, ESO, WOT, and Marvel Heroes

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,995Member Uncommon

    The combat mechanics of Wow is neither good or bad in my book, they are very similar to the mechanics that was invented by Meridian 59 and got famous in Everquest. I think they can be done better but they are good enough to play without being annoyed on them.

    Wows lore is also so-so. It was originally made for RTS games and you can still feel that in the background. Rather generic fantasy, sometimes good written other times not. But TOR presentation of the lore might make it more interesting. The whole thing is about more than just how well it is written, it is also how you present it to the players and how they can interact with it.

    Hopefully will TORs lore be close to KOTOR where a player decides what to do herself instead of just being told exactly what needs to be done like in Wow. If so that is indeed the key to TORs success.

    It will be interesting to see if TOR delivers, but I don't think combat mechanics will be it's strong point. 

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Originally posted by Loke666

    The combat mechanics of Wow is neither good or bad in my book, they are very similar to the mechanics that was invented by Meridian 59 and got famous in Everquest. I think they can be done better but they are good enough to play without being annoyed on them.

    Wows lore is also so-so. It was originally made for RTS games and you can still feel that in the background. Rather generic fantasy, sometimes good written other times not. But TOR presentation of the lore might make it more interesting. The whole thing is about more than just how well it is written, it is also how you present it to the players and how they can interact with it.

    Hopefully will TORs lore be close to KOTOR where a player decides what to do herself instead of just being told exactly what needs to be done like in Wow. If so that is indeed the key to TORs success.

    It will be interesting to see if TOR delivers, but I don't think combat mechanics will be it's strong point. 

    I agree about TOR's combat mechanic.  

    Between GW2 and SWTOR, I get the impression that GW2 will have the edge on combat.  The combat I have seen in SWTOR looks fairly similar to WoW with some new additions like cover and such.  I think SWTOR will have the edge on GW2 in terms of story though.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,912Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Loke666

    The combat mechanics of Wow is neither good or bad in my book, they are very similar to the mechanics that was invented by Meridian 59 and got famous in Everquest. I think they can be done better but they are good enough to play without being annoyed on them.

    Wows lore is also so-so. It was originally made for RTS games and you can still feel that in the background. Rather generic fantasy, sometimes good written other times not. But TOR presentation of the lore might make it more interesting. The whole thing is about more than just how well it is written, it is also how you present it to the players and how they can interact with it.

    Hopefully will TORs lore be close to KOTOR where a player decides what to do herself instead of just being told exactly what needs to be done like in Wow. If so that is indeed the key to TORs success.

    It will be interesting to see if TOR delivers, but I don't think combat mechanics will be it's strong point. 

    Yeah pretty much, it definitely won't be the highlight of the game for many. It will just become an issue of passable or not when it comes to most reviews If I may assume.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • Shatter30Shatter30 Waterford, MIPosts: 485Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Loke666

    The combat mechanics of Wow is neither good or bad in my book, they are very similar to the mechanics that was invented by Meridian 59 and got famous in Everquest. I think they can be done better but they are good enough to play without being annoyed on them.

    Wows lore is also so-so. It was originally made for RTS games and you can still feel that in the background. Rather generic fantasy, sometimes good written other times not. But TOR presentation of the lore might make it more interesting. The whole thing is about more than just how well it is written, it is also how you present it to the players and how they can interact with it.

    Hopefully will TORs lore be close to KOTOR where a player decides what to do herself instead of just being told exactly what needs to be done like in Wow. If so that is indeed the key to TORs success.

    It will be interesting to see if TOR delivers, but I don't think combat mechanics will be it's strong point. 

    Yeah pretty much, it definitely won't be the highlight of the game for many. It will just become an issue of passable or not when it comes to most reviews If I may assume.

    Combat in TOR is not that different from WOW, Rift, etc but it does add for certain classes cover, etc.  Like most MMOs when you start you have limited abilities and no advanced skills until 10+ so judging combat on the first 10 to 20 levels you will see the slowest combat the game offers.  Once you get more advanced abilities...again just like most games combat becomes much better. 

  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member

    Originally posted by Satarious

    I actually liked WoW's combat mechanics.  The biggest gripe I had with WoW was their cop-out on the one thing that distinguishes an mmo from a single player game:  World PvP.  Instead, they went instance crazy in both pve and pvp.   Blizzard preferred to take the cheap way out and siphon everybody out of the world pvp with much more lucrative rewards in instanced Battlegrounds.  Granted, there are some who prefer the instanced combat.  But I suspect that most recognize that the true value of an MMORPG should be in the "massively multiplayer online" aspect of the genre.  That's what sets it apart from your standard single player rpg.  That's why you pay a $15 a month subscription vs. a one time purchase of a single player game.

    Second, the game lore was pretty dull.  I suspect this was part of the reason why a large majority of players' primary reason for playing was for the phat lewts and status.  If there was something compelling about the game lore or its mechanic, things might have been different.

    I believe that Bioware could potentially set itself apart on the above two points from WoW.  To me, that's more than enough innovation and change to bring a massive amount of people to the game and stick with it.  The details of the combat mechanics are such a minor consideration compared to the above two game mechanics, as far as I'm concerned.

     

    Aside from the World PVP point, I agree with you. IMO there's more(not just 'some') who prefer instanced pvp. I still believe that there are more people who don't want to be ganked or in general be disturbed with their activity.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    SWTOR's combat is actually closer to WAR / CoX than it is to WoW. It's still tab targetting button pressing, but the setup is a bit different (ie more like the action / energy pools of WAR / CoX, than the mix of mana / rage / combo points WoW had).

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,451Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by aesperus

    SWTOR's combat is actually closer to WAR / CoX than it is to WoW. It's still tab targetting button pressing, but the setup is a bit different (ie more like the action / energy pools of WAR / CoX, than the mix of mana / rage / combo points WoW had).

    I watched a very good video the other day and thought SWTOR combat looked pretty good,it had a wide array of mechanics.The most important thing i saw was that the game is still using the ROLE play in combat,this i commend i do not like the current trend to make everyone a jack of all..nothing.

    I watched a video that showed a tank nicely role playing his role as a tank and the dps and healers doing a nice job with their roles.There was also some added thinking and movemenet needed again ,it was better than most MMORPG"S i have seen and better than what i expected.

    One of the most important things i saw in the SWTOR video also was something i enjoyed about FFXI>>>i did NOT see any button mashing,99% of all the rpg's are hot bar button mashing,i cannot stand that one bit.The combat i watched was also tohught provoking.back and forth action ,i hate combat that is 2 nukes and your dead,that takes the IQ of a gerbil to play.

    I will still need to try SWTOR combat to see if it is actually challenging,i only watched one good BOSS fight.Example does the tank need to be good to hold hate,do the dps players need to use some smarts to keep from drawing hate.In otherwords i don't want to see DPS players button mashing because the Tank has too many hate gain abilities and the mobs dying so fast that the high dps players don't need to use any brain at all.That is why i loved early FFXI combat,one mistake and you draw hate and could be dead.

    A perfect example,when i played Wow ,i literally coudl eat a sandwich and not pay attention to what i was even hitting on my hotbar,way too easy for my liking,i like to be pressed to thin kat least a little bit and throughotu the ENTIRE game ,not just when in a RAID.


    Samoan Diamond

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Wizardry

    One of the most important things i saw in the SWTOR video also was something i enjoyed about FFXI>>>i did NOT see any button mashing,99% of all the rpg's are hot bar button mashing,i cannot stand that one bit.The combat i watched was also tohught provoking.back and forth action ,i hate combat that is 2 nukes and your dead,that takes the IQ of a gerbil to play.

    With no auto-attack, and combat requiring you to use the same skills multiple times to defeat your opponent, I'm not sure how you can not button mash. Not sure which classes you've seen, but for example, the Sith Marauder / Jedi Guardian were definitely spamming saber attacks waiting for the CDs.

    Casters do seem to play a bit differently, as they probably should, being as how they have to be very careful about letting people get too close to them.

  • Biggus99Biggus99 Mesa, AZPosts: 916Member

    I really like the way the combat looks in TOR, but I'll have to wait to play it before I can give a definitive on it.  The lack of auto-attack feature may take a bit of time to get used to, although I generally spam during globals anyway, even in games where there is an auto-attack.  Just a habit of mine.  The combat I've seen in videos looks fairly tight and responsive, but I won't know for sure until BioWare lets me into a Beta, cough cough.  

     

     

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member

    TOR's combat is alot slower than WoW's combat. It will be interesting to see if players like slow combat in a mmo.

    30
  • Biggus99Biggus99 Mesa, AZPosts: 916Member

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    TOR's combat is alot slower than WoW's combat. It will be interesting to see if players like slow combat in a mmo.

    Completely disagree.  It looks faster, and more realistic, IMO.  Again, I'll have to play it to be sure, but WoW's combat, while not as bad as a game like Lotro's, doesn't exactly blow your hair back.   At the very least, TOR's combat LOOKS better.  Whether it is is up for debate. 

    Anyway, Lotro is still one of the more popular MMOs out there and its combat is god-awful.  So even if your opinion of TOR's combat ends up being correct, it's not a game-breaker by any means.

  • drakwondrakwon natick, MAPosts: 69Member

    the combat in TOR is slightly slower, but the videos of people PvPing in TOR now are people who really have no idea how to play them effectivly so their dmg output will be significantly lower then people who start from level 1 and know their class well.

     

    Slow combat is not fun. Period. It may be for a select few but people want fast paced action, big crits and the occasional time they just completly dominate people.

  • kaliniskalinis Dexter, MEPosts: 1,428Member

    I like the way combat looks in tor from all the videos ive seen. I especially like the fact that in pvp it takes more then one or 2 shots to kill a guy. They actually have a cd if u get stun locked to much so u cant be stunned again for a bit which is great. 

    I hated being feared dotted and feared again in wow by locks it sucked butt. Ill be honest i like the way combat in tor looks but then i love combat in wow. 

    i never had an issue with combat in wow it was them changing how my class played completly just for one expansion. I hated them taking my pally and chaning his whole mechanis of  how it played i still despise holy power. 

    That said i cant wait to play tor myself and decide if i love it or not but i think the story itself will keep me in game along time.

    I love the story in dragon age and mass effect so cant wait to play biowares story in tor. id pre order tor just for the class stoiries if they didnt have any other mmo mechanics at all.

     

  • zaylinzaylin Olympia, WAPosts: 789Member

    Originally posted by Nijraw

    Originally posted by Satarious

    I actually liked WoW's combat mechanics.  The biggest gripe I had with WoW was their cop-out on the one thing that distinguishes an mmo from a single player game:  World PvP.  Instead, they went instance crazy in both pve and pvp.   Blizzard preferred to take the cheap way out and siphon everybody out of the world pvp with much more lucrative rewards in instanced Battlegrounds.  Granted, there are some who prefer the instanced combat.  But I suspect that most recognize that the true value of an MMORPG should be in the "massively multiplayer online" aspect of the genre.  That's what sets it apart from your standard single player rpg.  That's why you pay a $15 a month subscription vs. a one time purchase of a single player game.

    Second, the game lore was pretty dull.  I suspect this was part of the reason why a large majority of players' primary reason for playing was for the phat lewts and status.  If there was something compelling about the game lore or its mechanic, things might have been different.

    I believe that Bioware could potentially set itself apart on the above two points from WoW.  To me, that's more than enough innovation and change to bring a massive amount of people to the game and stick with it.  The details of the combat mechanics are such a minor consideration compared to the above two game mechanics, as far as I'm concerned.

    I feel the same, I love the combat machanics ofz WoW, very polished, but the World or WoW is dead, to me its nothing more then a lobby game, if Swtor can nail World PvP,PvE,and Instant BG then we have a winner with the aready solid Star Wars lore.

    LOL, That pretty much says it all. The only point to roam around the world in WoW (at least fer me..when i played last) was to level WHILE waiting for your Q'e to pop up. I could go into a long story about why world PvP can be so much fun&important...but simply put, it just makes the game more fun and interesting..oh and imersive :^)

  • paterahpaterah ThessalonikiPosts: 578Member

    WoW's combat is fast and exciting especially at top lvls at least for pvp even if it's not twitch based, the people who were playing Tor at conventions were mostly low lvl and unskilled/uninformed about the game. We just have to wait and see.

    I forgot to say they removed auto-attack (they never had it actually) so it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

  • svannsvann san jose, CAPosts: 1,639Member Uncommon

    WoW open world pvp wasnt all that great.  When you got 20v20 going it became a lag fest with no real strategy and the battle just tended to go one way and another based on which way the wind turned.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member

    Originally posted by Biggus99

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    TOR's combat is alot slower than WoW's combat. It will be interesting to see if players like slow combat in a mmo.

    Completely disagree.  It looks faster, and more realistic, IMO.  Again, I'll have to play it to be sure, but WoW's combat, while not as bad as a game like Lotro's, doesn't exactly blow your hair back.   At the very least, TOR's combat LOOKS better.  Whether it is is up for debate. 

    Anyway, Lotro is still one of the more popular MMOs out there and its combat is god-awful.  So even if your opinion of TOR's combat ends up being correct, it's not a game-breaker by any means.

    For some it might be. For years now devs has been making fast combat games. I didn't find it bad but it wasn't exactly all that appealing either. Also anything is better than Lotro's combat! :)

    30
  • Biggus99Biggus99 Mesa, AZPosts: 916Member

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    Originally posted by Biggus99


    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    TOR's combat is alot slower than WoW's combat. It will be interesting to see if players like slow combat in a mmo.

    Completely disagree.  It looks faster, and more realistic, IMO.  Again, I'll have to play it to be sure, but WoW's combat, while not as bad as a game like Lotro's, doesn't exactly blow your hair back.   At the very least, TOR's combat LOOKS better.  Whether it is is up for debate. 

    Anyway, Lotro is still one of the more popular MMOs out there and its combat is god-awful.  So even if your opinion of TOR's combat ends up being correct, it's not a game-breaker by any means.

    For some it might be. For years now devs has been making fast combat games. I didn't find it bad but it wasn't exactly all that appealing either. Also anything is better than Lotro's combat! :)

     

    Lol, you'll get no arguments from me about that.  :)

  • channel84channel84 CyberjayaPosts: 585Member Uncommon

    The reason why rift didn't attract me is because it's a wow clone

    The reason why vanguard is still highly praise is because it's not a wow clone

  • viddiot007viddiot007 Hartford, CTPosts: 96Member Uncommon

    When I first played WOW i was like Wow. In my opinion They really captured the thrill of the hunt. I was a druid, and creeping around in my panther form stalking my victims was awsome to me. For me SWTOR is going to be awsome because im not expecting anything ground braking from it. I just want to play an awsome RPG with an equally awsome story. KOTOR online...

    image
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Satarious

    I actually liked WoW's combat mechanics.  The biggest gripe I had with WoW was their cop-out on the one thing that distinguishes an mmo from a single player game:  World PvP.  Instead, they went instance crazy in both pve and pvp.   Blizzard preferred to take the cheap way out and siphon everybody out of the world pvp with much more lucrative rewards in instanced Battlegrounds.  Granted, there are some who prefer the instanced combat.  But I suspect that most recognize that the true value of an MMORPG should be in the "massively multiplayer online" aspect of the genre.  That's what sets it apart from your standard single player rpg.  That's why you pay a $15 a month subscription vs. a one time purchase of a single player game.

    Second, the game lore was pretty dull.  I suspect this was part of the reason why a large majority of players' primary reason for playing was for the phat lewts and status.  If there was something compelling about the game lore or its mechanic, things might have been different.

    I believe that Bioware could potentially set itself apart on the above two points from WoW.  To me, that's more than enough innovation and change to bring a massive amount of people to the game and stick with it.  The details of the combat mechanics are such a minor consideration compared to the above two game mechanics, as far as I'm concerned.

    There is nothing wrong with the combat mechanisme of WoW, its a proven concept since long before MMO's were release and all of us where still playing single player RPG games.

     

    There is only one thing SW:TOR needs to do to spice up PvE.... Add randomness to the world, give (intelligent ) mobs a much better Ai.... step away from totally scripting every encounter intoo the greatest detail... give the (intelligent) mobs some random choices, like begging for their lives, running off with low health, becomming suicidal when all seems lost and going all out damage instead of defense, ... 

     

    These kind of choices should be made by At every level...A mob  finds itself against 3 foes and has to decide wether to run, call in help from friends or be confident enough to kill all 3 foes...  Actions like that make combat feel more alive.

     

    Non intelligent mobs could just work from default behaviour... like a deer would run of when he sees a human, just as a wolf would do... but 3 wolves would attack that human... And a bear would not care for the humans being very close to him... untill they start hurting him.

     

    Next to they should remove a lot of things (like mobs on a leash) that keep combat simple... Keep mobs following you a random periode of time... and if they quit following you, they move slowly back to their point of orrigin, but agroing all players they meet on their track back to their spawnpoints..

     

    Give mobs a purpose, dont't make them just sitting ducks that wayt on players to be slaughtered. Let them mind their own buiseness and occupy themn with things outside of combat..

     

    And make it so that combat doesn't evolve in spamming the same skills in a cycle time after time to maximize damage... But force players to react on what the mobs do...

     

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • Hekke29Hekke29 PilaPosts: 102Member Uncommon

    i see TOR's combat as someone already pointed out, closer to WAR than WOW, and i loved WAR's rvr, only thing that kept there ;) while i really hate WoW's nukefest pvp, there was really no challenge to play rogue at some points, a bit later retri was able to nuke 3+ enemies in 6 sec and go on... at the end my DK alt was able to kill 3 ally in a row simply defending my ground while leveling...

    with "nuke" type of pvp everything is just a matter of who is OP at the moment... while WAR's pvp is rather team based, and even when U're alone there is still chance to atleast survive some time until rescue arrives ;)

    “Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind.” Dr.Seuss

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