I love how every time a discussion of GW2's payment model gets started, one side always turns into a comparison between subscription-based games and free-to-play games. GW2 is neither of those. If you want to argue against GW2's payment model, you should probably understand what it is first.
GW2 is not a F2P game. You buy the box and you buy the expansions.
Subscription-based games still require you to buy the box and buy the expansions...it IS NOT just $15 a month for a subscription-based game. People seem to forget this when they are making the "$15 is super cheap" arguments.
GW2's cash shop will have only cosmetic items available which provide no in-game advantage or lift one character above another in any way. This has always been ArenaNet's philosophy, and there's no reason they would change it now.
Based on what I've heard, it appears that most, if not all, of the cash shop items will be available to earn in-game. The only "exclusive" cash shop items will be account services like name changes or extra character slots. This is not unlike many other P2P MMORPGs.
Those who refuse to try a GW2 simply because it has no monthly fee are only hurting themselves. They'll end up playing once their friends and family let them in on the secret...GW2 is actually going to be a better game, with more available content, and with a much better community, than whatever P2P games people have played in many years. The payment model doesn't make the community, the game mechanics, systems, and world do.
It's a B2P game with a cash shop, cosmetitc or not, needed or not it is still a cash shop. Which means it will be more expensive than many F2P games - not that the cost is a lot or even particularly relevant.
GW1 let you buy skills for pvp;
I agree. I love GW but lets not pretend it's business model is anything more then standard 'F2P' with a box cost attached.
I personally have no idea why folks proclaim 'B2P' as mana from heaven and superior to 'F2P'. It is just the same.
A huge difference here is that the F2P games have monetary "walls" in the way... you can't advance to this or that zone or content without forking out cash. This is something GW2 won't have... you'll have full access to all content with the purchase of the game. There's no pay-to-win in GW2 either... no items bought that make you more powerful or advance you. Cosmetic only.
This B2P model is markedly different than the generic F2P model out there.
How about we bring some reality into this discussion...
Eric Flannum sent us a note to clarify a couple of things about their plans for Guild Wars 2 post-release content:
“We haven’t decided on what exactly we are or aren’t going to offer for money post-release. We’re open to whatever our players seem most interested in. If, after release, you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever, it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful. Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store, I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say,) that we’ll release details on it when they are available, and that our core philosophy of not requiring you to spend additional money to play the game and not making the game difficult or painful to play in order to encourage you to buy things from the store still stands.”
So, what do we have here... Sounds like they could be charging for more story.... for more dungeons... for more events and more maps... Could come through DLC (microtransactions!) or expansions.
What else... oh, there might be XP boosts, they will "release details on it when they are available". Could have easily said "No XP boosts", a claim many gw2 fanatics want to make, but no, he left that completely open as a real possibility. That's certainly not "Costmetic Only", as you put it. Neither is charging for dungeons, story, maps, etc.
Im not sure where anet will derive their money from this plan (Frequent expansions? Microtransactions?), but rest assured they will get every bit as much money out of the playerbase as any other mmo. If you think its a free show you are mistaken.
I still play GW1 from time to time. I've been playing it off and on since it was released. I paid for the boxes for the game and the expansions. I did buy a few character slots. However, I haven't paid a penny in a long while and if I were to tally up the total amount I put into the game and divided it by the number of months in which the game saw some play time, the amount per month is miniscule compared to what I put into a typical subscription game.
If you paid less rest assured someone else paid more. The playerbase in general is NOT getting a free play. Someone else paid your way.
I love how every time a discussion of GW2's payment model gets started, one side always turns into a comparison between subscription-based games and free-to-play games. GW2 is neither of those. If you want to argue against GW2's payment model, you should probably understand what it is first.
GW2 is not a F2P game. You buy the box and you buy the expansions.
Subscription-based games still require you to buy the box and buy the expansions...it IS NOT just $15 a month for a subscription-based game. People seem to forget this when they are making the "$15 is super cheap" arguments.
GW2's cash shop will have only cosmetic items available which provide no in-game advantage or lift one character above another in any way. This has always been ArenaNet's philosophy, and there's no reason they would change it now.
Based on what I've heard, it appears that most, if not all, of the cash shop items will be available to earn in-game. The only "exclusive" cash shop items will be account services like name changes or extra character slots. This is not unlike many other P2P MMORPGs.
Those who refuse to try a GW2 simply because it has no monthly fee are only hurting themselves. They'll end up playing once their friends and family let them in on the secret...GW2 is actually going to be a better game, with more available content, and with a much better community, than whatever P2P games people have played in many years. The payment model doesn't make the community, the game mechanics, systems, and world do.
It's a B2P game with a cash shop, cosmetitc or not, needed or not it is still a cash shop. Which means it will be more expensive than many F2P games - not that the cost is a lot or even particularly relevant.
GW1 let you buy skills for pvp;
I agree. I love GW but lets not pretend it's business model is anything more then standard 'F2P' with a box cost attached.
I personally have no idea why folks proclaim 'B2P' as mana from heaven and superior to 'F2P'. It is just the same.
A huge difference here is that the F2P games have monetary "walls" in the way... you can't advance to this or that zone or content without forking out cash. This is something GW2 won't have... you'll have full access to all content with the purchase of the game. There's no pay-to-win in GW2 either... no items bought that make you more powerful or advance you. Cosmetic only.
This B2P model is markedly different than the generic F2P model out there.
How about we bring some reality into this discussion...
Eric Flannum sent us a note to clarify a couple of things about their plans for Guild Wars 2 post-release content:
“We haven’t decided on what exactly we are or aren’t going to offer for money post-release. We’re open to whatever our players seem most interested in. If, after release, you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever, it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful. Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store, I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say,) that we’ll release details on it when they are available, and that our core philosophy of not requiring you to spend additional money to play the game and not making the game difficult or painful to play in order to encourage you to buy things from the store still stands.”
So, what do we have here... Sounds like they could be charging for more story.... for more dungeons... for more events and more maps... Could come through DLC (microtransactions!) or expansions.
What else... oh, there might be XP boosts, they will "release details on it when they are available". Could have easily said "No XP boosts", a claim many gw2 fanatics want to make, but no, he left that completely open as a real possibility. That's certainly not "Costmetic Only", as you put it. Neither is charging for dungeons, story, maps, etc.
Bullshit. While it's not "cosmetic" it's no different than the pay to play game that charges for expansions. You can buy WoW expansions in their online store too. What's the difference?
EQ2 has had an item store for a long time. There's nothing in it that negatively affects gameplay in my opinion. Yes, they have some xp potions....big whoopedy do. They also have double xp weekends all the time in game. You can also drink something for a sex change....omg....alert the media.
How about we bring some reality into this discussion...
Eric Flannum sent us a note to clarify a couple of things about their plans for Guild Wars 2 post-release content:
“We haven’t decided on what exactly we are or aren’t going to offer for money post-release. We’re open to whatever our players seem most interested in. If, after release, you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever, it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful. Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store, I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say,) that we’ll release details on it when they are available, and that our core philosophy of not requiring you to spend additional money to play the game and not making the game difficult or painful to play in order to encourage you to buy things from the store still stands.”
So, what do we have here... Sounds like they could be charging for more story.... for more dungeons... for more events and more maps... Could come through DLC (microtransactions!) or expansions.
What else... oh, there might be XP boosts, they will "release details on it when they are available". Could have easily said "No XP boosts", a claim many gw2 fanatics want to make, but no, he left that completely open as a real possibility. That's certainly not "Costmetic Only", as you put it. Neither is charging for dungeons, story, maps, etc.
If you're saying we'll have to wait and see how the first Buy to Play, AAA MMO works out (anyway, I think it's the first), I completely agree with you. We don't know yet. For all we know, the game may somehow manage to suck despite the reviews, the interviews, and the hype. I hope not, but it might. Or it could somehow turn into a cash sucking beastie that puts Perfect World to shame (I really doubt that, but we won't know for sure until GW2 has been out awhile, will we?) And of course, just like every other humans, the developers could *gasp* lie to us about anything and everything.
The hope is that Guild Wars 2 will have a buy to play system that delights its users, makes everyone feel like we're getting a great deal for a great game, and yes, that makes plenty of money for the developers, distributors, and everyone else involved in the creation of the game, including the janitorial staff (after all, they're the ones doing the really yucky jobs!). If GW2 is a massive success, some of us would like to see other games move in the buy to play direction. That's all this is. Hope for a better game with a better payment model than what we've had in the past. No reason for anyone to go all class warfare about it. Although we all can if it will provide everyone with sufficient amusement on a slow Friday. Let me know, I'm quite good at hurling catchy slogans for entertainment purposes only.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I love how every time a discussion of GW2's payment model gets started, one side always turns into a comparison between subscription-based games and free-to-play games. GW2 is neither of those. If you want to argue against GW2's payment model, you should probably understand what it is first.
GW2 is not a F2P game. You buy the box and you buy the expansions.
Subscription-based games still require you to buy the box and buy the expansions...it IS NOT just $15 a month for a subscription-based game. People seem to forget this when they are making the "$15 is super cheap" arguments.
GW2's cash shop will have only cosmetic items available which provide no in-game advantage or lift one character above another in any way. This has always been ArenaNet's philosophy, and there's no reason they would change it now.
Based on what I've heard, it appears that most, if not all, of the cash shop items will be available to earn in-game. The only "exclusive" cash shop items will be account services like name changes or extra character slots. This is not unlike many other P2P MMORPGs.
Those who refuse to try a GW2 simply because it has no monthly fee are only hurting themselves. They'll end up playing once their friends and family let them in on the secret...GW2 is actually going to be a better game, with more available content, and with a much better community, than whatever P2P games people have played in many years. The payment model doesn't make the community, the game mechanics, systems, and world do.
It's a B2P game with a cash shop, cosmetitc or not, needed or not it is still a cash shop. Which means it will be more expensive than many F2P games - not that the cost is a lot or even particularly relevant.
GW1 let you buy skills for pvp;
I agree. I love GW but lets not pretend it's business model is anything more then standard 'F2P' with a box cost attached.
I personally have no idea why folks proclaim 'B2P' as mana from heaven and superior to 'F2P'. It is just the same.
A huge difference here is that the F2P games have monetary "walls" in the way... you can't advance to this or that zone or content without forking out cash. This is something GW2 won't have... you'll have full access to all content with the purchase of the game. There's no pay-to-win in GW2 either... no items bought that make you more powerful or advance you. Cosmetic only.
This B2P model is markedly different than the generic F2P model out there.
How about we bring some reality into this discussion...
Eric Flannum sent us a note to clarify a couple of things about their plans for Guild Wars 2 post-release content:
“We haven’t decided on what exactly we are or aren’t going to offer for money post-release. We’re open to whatever our players seem most interested in. If, after release, you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever, it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful. Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store, I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say,) that we’ll release details on it when they are available, and that our core philosophy of not requiring you to spend additional money to play the game and not making the game difficult or painful to play in order to encourage you to buy things from the store still stands.”
So, what do we have here... Sounds like they could be charging for more story.... for more dungeons... for more events and more maps... Could come through DLC (microtransactions!) or expansions.
What else... oh, there might be XP boosts, they will "release details on it when they are available". Could have easily said "No XP boosts", a claim many gw2 fanatics want to make, but no, he left that completely open as a real possibility. That's certainly not "Costmetic Only", as you put it. Neither is charging for dungeons, story, maps, etc.
Bullshit. While it's not "cosmetic" it's no different than the pay to play game that charges for expansions. You can buy WoW expansions in their online store too. What's the difference?
EQ2 has had an item store for a long time. There's nothing in it that negatively affects gameplay in my opinion. Yes, they have some xp potions....big whoopedy do. They also have double xp weekends all the time in game. You can also drink something for a sex change....omg....alert the media.
Item shop PARANOIA....it's become epidemic.
If you'd bother to read the posts, you'd see that I am simply refuting his baseless claims.
I am not complaining about cash shops, I have no problem with them whatsoever, but some of these fanatics need to understand that this is going to be just another cash shop game like all the others.
How about we bring some reality into this discussion... Eric Flannum sent us a note to clarify a couple of things about their plans for Guild Wars 2 post-release content: We havent decided on what exactly we are or arent going to offer for money post-release. Were open to whatever our players seem most interested in. If, after release, you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever, its something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful. Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store, I can only reiterate what weve said before (and will continue to say,) that well release details on it when they are available, and that our core philosophy of not requiring you to spend additional money to play the game and not making the game difficult or painful to play in order to encourage you to buy things from the store still stands. So, what do we have here... Sounds like they could be charging for more story.... for more dungeons... for more events and more maps... Could come through DLC (microtransactions!) or expansions. What else... oh, there might be XP boosts, they will "release details on it when they are available". Could have easily said "No XP boosts", a claim many gw2 fanatics want to make, but no, he left that completely open as a real possibility. That's certainly not "Costmetic Only", as you put it. Neither is charging for dungeons, story, maps, etc.
How useful are XP boosts in a game with a flat leveling curve? How useful is speeding past content in a game that isn't all about end game? Not the most handy of items, maybe some would buy them but playing GW2 for what it is and offers rules them out as any kind of serious money spinner. Downloadable content is fine, no difference to buying expansions, sure they might be smaller chunks but Anet would be foolish to do anything other than give them a competitive price. GW2 has a bigger map and more content than the original chapter of Guild wars, having to buy further content isn't going to be an immediate problem. If your worried about them patching in nothing for free I suggest you investigate what happened with Guild Wars, they got a significant free patch today.
I am paying for the freedom of not being 'nickel and dimed' everytime I turn around. I do not, nor will I ever support a "Free to play" / "Pay to Win" Micro-transaction business model.
How about we bring some reality into this discussion...
Eric Flannum sent us a note to clarify a couple of things about their plans for Guild Wars 2 post-release content:
“We haven’t decided on what exactly we are or aren’t going to offer for money post-release. We’re open to whatever our players seem most interested in. If, after release, you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever, it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful. Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store, I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say,) that we’ll release details on it when they are available, and that our core philosophy of not requiring you to spend additional money to play the game and not making the game difficult or painful to play in order to encourage you to buy things from the store still stands.”
So, what do we have here... Sounds like they could be charging for more story.... for more dungeons... for more events and more maps... Could come through DLC (microtransactions!) or expansions.
What else... oh, there might be XP boosts, they will "release details on it when they are available". Could have easily said "No XP boosts", a claim many gw2 fanatics want to make, but no, he left that completely open as a real possibility. That's certainly not "Costmetic Only", as you put it. Neither is charging for dungeons, story, maps, etc.
If you're saying we'll have to wait and see how the first Buy to Play, AAA MMO works out (anyway, I think it's the first), I completely agree with you. We don't know yet. For all we know, the game may somehow manage to suck despite the reviews, the interviews, and the hype. I hope not, but it might. Or it could somehow turn into a cash sucking beastie that puts Perfect World to shame (I really doubt that, but we won't know for sure until GW2 has been out awhile, will we?) And of course, just like every other humans, the developers could *gasp* lie to us about anything and everything.
The hope is that Guild Wars 2 will have a buy to play system that delights its users, makes everyone feel like we're getting a great deal for a great game, and yes, that makes plenty of money for the developers, distributors, and everyone else involved in the creation of the game, including the janitorial staff (after all, they're the ones doing the really yucky jobs!). If GW2 is a massive success, some of us would like to see other games move in the buy to play direction. That's all this is. Hope for a better game with a better payment model than what we've had in the past. No reason for anyone to go all class warfare about it. Although we all can if it will provide everyone with sufficient amusement on a slow Friday. Let me know, I'm quite good at hurling catchy slogans for entertainment purposes only.
"somehow manage to suck despite the reviews, the interviews, and the hype".... Have you not paid attention to MMO's for the past 5 years? Have you not seen time and time again that games do, in fact, end up sucking more often than not.
Your "better" payment model is not better for all. For everyone who doesn't buy from the cash shop, someone else has to be there spending enough to make up for it. That's your "better" payment model, a bunch of people freeloading.
While it's not "cosmetic" it's no different than the pay to play game that charges for expansions. You can buy WoW expansions in their online store too. What's the difference?
EQ2 has had an item store for a long time. There's nothing in it that negatively affects gameplay in my opinion. Yes, they have some potions....big whoopedy do. You can also drink something for a sex change....omg....alert the media.
Item shop PARANOIA....it's become epidemic.
I don't care about cashshops. However, do you not understand why it has become epidemic? While I don't really mind people getting an option they support (those who like CS) at the same time, there was an age where you got it all for a flat fee, either a box price or sub paid for it all. That just isn't the case today. Many miss those times and want them back, can you really blame them?
If something is in a shop it should be in the game as well, to earn while playing. If it's not players lose out on options. I don't care how you spin it, that is not a good thing. Should a cosmetic oriented player have to pay more to not look like random clone numer 200056? No they shouldn't.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I love how every time a discussion of GW2's payment model gets started, one side always turns into a comparison between subscription-based games and free-to-play games. GW2 is neither of those. If you want to argue against GW2's payment model, you should probably understand what it is first.
GW2 is not a F2P game. You buy the box and you buy the expansions.
Subscription-based games still require you to buy the box and buy the expansions...it IS NOT just $15 a month for a subscription-based game. People seem to forget this when they are making the "$15 is super cheap" arguments.
GW2's cash shop will have only cosmetic items available which provide no in-game advantage or lift one character above another in any way. This has always been ArenaNet's philosophy, and there's no reason they would change it now.
Based on what I've heard, it appears that most, if not all, of the cash shop items will be available to earn in-game. The only "exclusive" cash shop items will be account services like name changes or extra character slots. This is not unlike many other P2P MMORPGs.
Those who refuse to try a GW2 simply because it has no monthly fee are only hurting themselves. They'll end up playing once their friends and family let them in on the secret...GW2 is actually going to be a better game, with more available content, and with a much better community, than whatever P2P games people have played in many years. The payment model doesn't make the community, the game mechanics, systems, and world do.
It's a B2P game with a cash shop, cosmetitc or not, needed or not it is still a cash shop. Which means it will be more expensive than many F2P games - not that the cost is a lot or even particularly relevant.
GW1 let you buy skills for pvp;
I agree. I love GW but lets not pretend it's business model is anything more then standard 'F2P' with a box cost attached.
I personally have no idea why folks proclaim 'B2P' as mana from heaven and superior to 'F2P'. It is just the same.
A huge difference here is that the F2P games have monetary "walls" in the way... you can't advance to this or that zone or content without forking out cash. This is something GW2 won't have... you'll have full access to all content with the purchase of the game. There's no pay-to-win in GW2 either... no items bought that make you more powerful or advance you. Cosmetic only.
This B2P model is markedly different than the generic F2P model out there.
How about we bring some reality into this discussion...
Eric Flannum sent us a note to clarify a couple of things about their plans for Guild Wars 2 post-release content:
“We haven’t decided on what exactly we are or aren’t going to offer for money post-release. We’re open to whatever our players seem most interested in. If, after release, you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever, it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful. Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store, I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say,) that we’ll release details on it when they are available, and that our core philosophy of not requiring you to spend additional money to play the game and not making the game difficult or painful to play in order to encourage you to buy things from the store still stands.”
So, what do we have here... Sounds like they could be charging for more story.... for more dungeons... for more events and more maps... Could come through DLC (microtransactions!) or expansions.
What else... oh, there might be XP boosts, they will "release details on it when they are available". Could have easily said "No XP boosts", a claim many gw2 fanatics want to make, but no, he left that completely open as a real possibility. That's certainly not "Costmetic Only", as you put it. Neither is charging for dungeons, story, maps, etc.
Bullshit. While it's not "cosmetic" it's no different than the pay to play game that charges for expansions. You can buy WoW expansions in their online store too. What's the difference?
EQ2 has had an item store for a long time. There's nothing in it that negatively affects gameplay in my opinion. Yes, they have some xp potions....big whoopedy do. They also have double xp weekends all the time in game. You can also drink something for a sex change....omg....alert the media.
Item shop PARANOIA....it's become epidemic.
It's nice to see that not all mmo players have been blinded by the b2p hype. It's just a f2p with a cash shop...but you have to buy the client.
Most people have been screaming "But it wasn't that way in GW1" like that is saying something.
Amazing how people have changed their tunes from "it's only cosmitic" to it's no differant than buying an expansion. Spending money is spending money. In gw2 you'll have to constantly spend to keep up eith the latest content.
A monthly fee versus the F2P method deters griefers by putting a financial penalty for getting perma-banned. In F2P they can set up a new account in minutes and get back to griefing. At $30 a pop and a monthly fee that is a strong deterrent for griefers. Even a small $5 activation fee would go a long way to culling griefers in the F2P mmos.
GW2 looks very promising, I hope that it's a fun game, and I hope that it's worth the 50 bucks. I really, really wish, however, that there was enough quality/quantity of content to make it worth a sub fee. That doesn't mean it won't be a good value, but iIt clearly isn't worth the fee, or NCSoft would be charging it.
There are more factors when it comes to sub fee than just game quality.
First off, there's human inertia. WoW grabbed a hold of the P2P market first. People who have been subscribed to WoW are inclined to stay with WoW because thats where their progress is. It's where their friends are. People are not inclined to pay two subscriptions. So for a game to maintain a long subscriber base, the game has to be so much better than WoW for them not only to buy it in the first place, but to stick with it and for them to be able to convince their friends to also switch. That is an enormous hurdle for anybody to overcome.
Not just that, but the landscape is changing. Maybe people are inclined to keep paying for WoW because they've been doing it and are invested, with a lot of other MMO options out there and a changing F2P landscape, people aren't necessarily inclined to subscribe to new things. Maybe SWTOR will prove this wrong, but the only recent moderately successful datapoint is Rift, and that's got aboout 500k subs.
Being P2P is not just printing money. Sure, if you do dethrone WoW it's a huge cash cow, but if you can't (and nobody has proven you can), it's not the best way to earn. Being a B2P MMO means probably vastly more sales, which means more expansion sales and microtransactions. Maybe if they do sell 12 million copies and surpass WoW someone will say damn, we should have gone P2P, but probably not, because they'd have never gotten that many being P2P in the first place.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by just1opinion
While it's not "cosmetic" it's no different than the pay to play game that charges for expansions. You can buy WoW expansions in their online store too. What's the difference? EQ2 has had an item store for a long time. There's nothing in it that negatively affects gameplay in my opinion. Yes, they have some potions....big whoopedy do. You can also drink something for a sex change....omg....alert the media. Item shop PARANOIA....it's become epidemic.
I don't care about cashshops. However, do you not understand why it has become epidemic? While I don't really mind people getting an option they support (those who like CS) at the same time, there was an age where you got it all for a flat fee, either a box price or sub paid for it all. That just isn't the case today. Many miss those times and want them back, can you really blame them? If something is in a shop it should be in the game as well, to earn while playing. If it's not players lose out on options. I don't care how you spin it, that is not a good thing. Should a cosmetic oriented player have to pay more to not look like random clone numer 200056? No they shouldn't.
GW always had a cash shop, sure it expanded as the game grew but it was there from day one (skill unlock packs for those who couldn't be bothered to play the game). At the end of the day all you have to consider is the game worth supporting? Now most FTP titles have built in road blocks so you are forced to pay if you don't want to face mammoth grind or continually unlucky rolls of a dice, freemium models have the same kind of road blocks - LOTRO's system involves a lot of grind if you want to unlock content, AoC simply denies you the full content unless you pay. GW2 is offering you a full game. I agree that games that charge a sub should never sell content, cosmetic or not, but GW2 asks for no sub, if GW is anything to go by and looking at whats been released on GW2, my guess is that cosmetic shop items will be town clothes while your armour options are going to be equally varied from game play. So yes if you're of an RP mind you may well spend more, the question will still remain is the game worth supporting?
I don't know about everyone else but I am paying for some form of civility and seperation from those that demand "free stuff" or think they are "entitled" to everything without paying OR working for it. In other words, playing a video game is NOT a civil right.
You pay a subscription fee so you can feel superior to a straw man you made up in your head? Nice. Let the imaginary people eat cake, huh?
Nobody is talking about playing games for free, or games being some sort of unalienable right. Whether you want to discuss subscription based games or a B2P game like GW2...you are always paying for the box at the very least.
We're talking about value for the player's money, and what the various payment models offer in terms of game design. I might argue that the subscription fee itself creates dramatically more of an entitlement mentality...players believe that they should be catered to individually in every way, and their play style supported exclusively, simply because of their $15 per month payment.
I do believe that I was responding to the TITLE of this discussion thread. Which for your own education was "MMOs with subscription fees... what are you pay for?". What I wrote is MY answer to that question....not yours...MINE. Thank you for playing.
GW always had a cash shop, sure it expanded as the game grew but it was there from day one (skill unlock packs for those who couldn't be bothered to play the game). At the end of the day all you have to consider is the game worth supporting? Now most FTP titles have built in road blocks so you are forced to pay if you don't want to face mammoth grind or continually unlucky rolls of a dice, freemium models have the same kind of road blocks -LOTRO's system involves a lot of grind if you want to unlock content, AoC simply denies you the full content unless you pay.
GW2 is offering you a full game. I agree that games that charge a sub should never sell content, cosmetic or not, but GW2 asks for no sub, if GW is anything to go by and looking at whats been released on GW2, my guess is that cosmetic shop items will be town clothes while your armour options are going to be equally varied from game play. So yes if you're of an RP mind you may well spend more, the question will still remain is the game worth supporting?
Like I said I don't mind the cash shop I'm not a cosmetic oriented player so again I don't mind what doesn't effect me personally. I was more or less playing devils advocate there.
As an aside, I was unaware Prophecies released with a CS? I don't remember one which says to me it wasn't intrusive, hopefully that's also the case in GW2.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
While it's not "cosmetic" it's no different than the pay to play game that charges for expansions. You can buy WoW expansions in their online store too. What's the difference?
EQ2 has had an item store for a long time. There's nothing in it that negatively affects gameplay in my opinion. Yes, they have some potions....big whoopedy do. You can also drink something for a sex change....omg....alert the media.
Item shop PARANOIA....it's become epidemic.
I don't care about cashshops. However, do you not understand why it has become epidemic? While I don't really mind people getting an option they support (those who like CS) at the same time, there was an age where you got it all for a flat fee, either a box price or sub paid for it all. That just isn't the case today. Many miss those times and want them back, can you really blame them?
If something is in a shop it should be in the game as well, to earn while playing. If it's not players lose out on options. I don't care how you spin it, that is not a good thing. Should a cosmetic oriented player have to pay more to not look like random clone numer 200056? No they shouldn't.
GW always had a cash shop, sure it expanded as the game grew but it was there from day one (skill unlock packs for those who couldn't be bothered to play the game). At the end of the day all you have to consider is the game worth supporting? Now most FTP titles have built in road blocks so you are forced to pay if you don't want to face mammoth grind or continually unlucky rolls of a dice, freemium models have the same kind of road blocks - LOTRO's system involves a lot of grind if you want to unlock content, AoC simply denies you the full content unless you pay. GW2 is offering you a full game. I agree that games that charge a sub should never sell content, cosmetic or not, but GW2 asks for no sub, if GW is anything to go by and looking at whats been released on GW2, my guess is that cosmetic shop items will be town clothes while your armour options are going to be equally varied from game play. So yes if you're of an RP mind you may well spend more, the question will still remain is the game worth supporting?
GW2 is offering you a full game... except for all of the DLC you'll need to purchase to play the full game. What makes you people think this game is being built any differently than every other f2p game out there? The ONLY difference is they're making you pay up front. And after that, they'll do everything they can to force/influence/coerce/trick you into spending money in the cash shop. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the cash shop, there's just clearly something wrong with those who believe that NCSoft is going to treat this game any different than the rest of their titles. They want to squeeze every penny they can out of you, end of story.
You are paying to make Activision/Blizzard shareholders money. So thank you.
The highest Activision shares has ever peaked was about 17.72 and this was a year before Blizzard's merger. Since the merger Activision/Blizzard stocks have flatlined between 11-13.
Trust me unless you bought shares between 1994-2001, there is no reall money to be made as a shareholder for them.
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by EvilGeek
GW always had a cash shop, sure it expanded as the game grew but it was there from day one (skill unlock packs for those who couldn't be bothered to play the game). At the end of the day all you have to consider is the game worth supporting? Now most FTP titles have built in road blocks so you are forced to pay if you don't want to face mammoth grind or continually unlucky rolls of a dice, freemium models have the same kind of road blocks -LOTRO's system involves a lot of grind if you want to unlock content, AoC simply denies you the full content unless you pay. GW2 is offering you a full game. I agree that games that charge a sub should never sell content, cosmetic or not, but GW2 asks for no sub, if GW is anything to go by and looking at whats been released on GW2, my guess is that cosmetic shop items will be town clothes while your armour options are going to be equally varied from game play. So yes if you're of an RP mind you may well spend more, the question will still remain is the game worth supporting? Like I said I don't mind the cash shop I'm not a cosmetic oriented player so again I don't mind what doesn't effect me personally. I was more or less playing devils advocate there. As an aside, I was unaware Prophecies released with a CS? I don't remember one which says to me it wasn't intrusive, hopefully that's also the case in GW2.
I can't honestly remember how those items were accessed, a good thing, like you stated, I can't remember because it wasn't in my face. Currently the cash shop option sits at the top right of your character selection screen, big enough to be noticed but not 'in your face', I'm guessing that's the place they'll keep it, it's a logical place when your looking at characters, maybe thinking of an extra slot or costume.
GW always had a cash shop, sure it expanded as the game grew but it was there from day one (skill unlock packs for those who couldn't be bothered to play the game). At the end of the day all you have to consider is the game worth supporting? Now most FTP titles have built in road blocks so you are forced to pay if you don't want to face mammoth grind or continually unlucky rolls of a dice, freemium models have the same kind of road blocks -LOTRO's system involves a lot of grind if you want to unlock content, AoC simply denies you the full content unless you pay.
GW2 is offering you a full game. I agree that games that charge a sub should never sell content, cosmetic or not, but GW2 asks for no sub, if GW is anything to go by and looking at whats been released on GW2, my guess is that cosmetic shop items will be town clothes while your armour options are going to be equally varied from game play. So yes if you're of an RP mind you may well spend more, the question will still remain is the game worth supporting?
Like I said I don't mind the cash shop I'm not a cosmetic oriented player so again I don't mind what doesn't effect me personally. I was more or less playing devils advocate there.
As an aside, I was unaware Prophecies released with a CS? I don't remember one which says to me it wasn't intrusive, hopefully that's also the case in GW2.
I can't honestly remember how those items were accessed, a good thing, like you stated, I can't remember because it wasn't in my face. Currently the cash shop option sits at the top right of your character selection screen, big enough to be noticed but not 'in your face', I'm guessing that's the place they'll keep it, it's a logical place when your looking at characters, maybe thinking of an extra slot or costume.
Yeah nothing is worse than in AOC where it's the first thing you see when you log in, as long as it's not like that i'll have no complaints.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
While it's not "cosmetic" it's no different than the pay to play game that charges for expansions. You can buy WoW expansions in their online store too. What's the difference? EQ2 has had an item store for a long time. There's nothing in it that negatively affects gameplay in my opinion. Yes, they have some potions....big whoopedy do. You can also drink something for a sex change....omg....alert the media. Item shop PARANOIA....it's become epidemic.
I don't care about cashshops. However, do you not understand why it has become epidemic? While I don't really mind people getting an option they support (those who like CS) at the same time, there was an age where you got it all for a flat fee, either a box price or sub paid for it all. That just isn't the case today. Many miss those times and want them back, can you really blame them? If something is in a shop it should be in the game as well, to earn while playing. If it's not players lose out on options. I don't care how you spin it, that is not a good thing. Should a cosmetic oriented player have to pay more to not look like random clone numer 200056? No they shouldn't.
GW always had a cash shop, sure it expanded as the game grew but it was there from day one (skill unlock packs for those who couldn't be bothered to play the game). At the end of the day all you have to consider is the game worth supporting? Now most FTP titles have built in road blocks so you are forced to pay if you don't want to face mammoth grind or continually unlucky rolls of a dice, freemium models have the same kind of road blocks - LOTRO's system involves a lot of grind if you want to unlock content, AoC simply denies you the full content unless you pay. GW2 is offering you a full game. I agree that games that charge a sub should never sell content, cosmetic or not, but GW2 asks for no sub, if GW is anything to go by and looking at whats been released on GW2, my guess is that cosmetic shop items will be town clothes while your armour options are going to be equally varied from game play. So yes if you're of an RP mind you may well spend more, the question will still remain is the game worth supporting?
GW2 is offering you a full game... except for all of the DLC you'll need to purchase to play the full game. What makes you people think this game is being built any differently than every other f2p game out there? The ONLY difference is they're making you pay up front. And after that, they'll do everything they can to force/influence/coerce/trick you into spending money in the cash shop. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the cash shop, there's just clearly something wrong with those who believe that NCSoft is going to treat this game any different than the rest of their titles. They want to squeeze every penny they can out of you, end of story.
Nope the full game will be what you buy at release, a complete personal storyline and world storyline set on a map filled with more content than the original GW released with, so YES you are getting the full game - 25 zones full of dynamic events (not static quests), hundreds of hours of content and 8 dungeons each with three different modes and a story mode, sounds like a full game to me.
Anet got a very autonomous deal when they signed to NCSoft, otherwise what would have happened to GW1 ? It wouldn't be the game it is now if it was ruled according to your take on what will happen. Anet are primarily gamers who are very aware they need to succeed financially if they want to carry on building the games they like and keep the jobs they so obviously love, seriously they are the last people I would accuse of trying to squeeze you out of every last penny.
Edit: Also please stop calling it a F2P game, it's not, the financial model is miles apart from that, it's B2P.
They don't make just as much money as, say WoW, but they probably make just as much as, say LotRo before LotRo went F2P/Hybrid. The difference is this: Anet sold way more boxes than LotRO ever did (something like 6-8 million across all GW titles vs less than 1 million total for LotRO). So, yes, Anet makes less per player than most sub based games. They are a smallish company so they make do with less (innovate instead of just hire more people) than others would. You also have to remember that if not for WoW, GW would be the largest MMO around. That in itself would make them a lot of money.
It's not 6-8 million, it's 6 million. And the majority of those bought the game at a huge discount. I paid 7 bucks on Amazon and got free shipping. The game sucked and was uninstalled quickly.
GW2 looks very promising, I hope that it's a fun game, and I hope that it's worth the 50 bucks. I really, really wish, however, that there was enough quality/quantity of content to make it worth a sub fee. That doesn't mean it won't be a good value, but iIt clearly isn't worth the fee, or NCSoft would be charging it.
You apparently have no idea what the ideals and values of Anet are. They purposely make games that require no sub fee and if you do even a short search you will find that Guild Wars is considered by many in the industry - critics and gamers alike - to be one of the best games out there, period.
Or you're just trolling....yep, that seems a more likely idea...and I just fell off your bridge.
You apparantly have no idea that your precious Anet are a wholly owned subsidiary of NCSoft. NCSoft will demand the same return on investment from this division as the division that produced Aion. That means either their going to make shitloads of money off of an unholy cash shop, or they simply aren't going to be putting as much money into the developement.
The ideals and values of Anet are to make as much money as possible so they can keep their jobs, period. If you really believe otherwise, that's truly sad.
Yes I do know that Anet is owned by NCSoft....I have an NCSoft account so I can play Guild Wars. Guild Wars has made NCSoft more money than any of their other games. In fact, they use the money made from Guild Wars to finance their other excursions into the MMO world (like Aion). All this while GW was a B2P game with a very small cosmetic cash shop.
The ideals of Anet are to make money (yes they are a business so they do want to make money - and I have no problem with that) while making the best MMO games on the market. Not to make as much money as possible to keep their jobs, if that means doing what they consider to be gouging the people who play their games.
Crap, I just fell off your bridge again. Damn.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
You are paying to make Activision/Blizzard shareholders money. So thank you.
The highest Activision shares has ever peaked was about 17.72 and this was a year before Blizzard's merger. Since the merger Activision/Blizzard stocks have flatlined between 11-13.
Trust me unless you bought shares between 1994-2001, there is no reall money to be made as a shareholder for them.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
FULL access to ALL content (and, yes, Fluff IS content) that is EARNABLE by PLAYING the game (in theory).
So, basically, the stuff GW2 will provide you without a sub fee.[ In theory]
Interesting.
Remains to be seen whether or not ArenaNet can operate a AAA MMORPG on a no -sub model.
As ofhers have said, if they do pull it off, it's likely to change the landscape of MMO payment models significantly.
Also GW2 will probally have a shop and yeah you might not have to buy from it but to keep up with other people you will probally ahve to spend at least $10 a month or somthing.. so most people will end up paying the same amount anyway each month..
Why do you even bother posting if you're not even informed about the game's cash shop... For god sake! THE DIRECTOR OF ANET SAID IT WILL BE PURELY COSMETIC! Noticed the words PURELY and COSMETIC there? The same thing as they have in GW1 now, the same freaking model is going in use for GW2... If GW1 managed to be alive for so long and it provided enough money (with some minor donations from "the fond for the dark days") for GW2 to be developed for so many years (YES! They used the funds from GW1 to fund GW2 dev from the beginning since they had no seperate staff at that time [since they didn't even know if they gonna do the game or not])... Please, try to be informed if you're already bullshiting about the game's mechanic of making money...
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
FULL access to ALL content (and, yes, Fluff IS content) that is EARNABLE by PLAYING the game (in theory).
So, basically, the stuff GW2 will provide you without a sub fee.[ In theory]
Interesting.
Remains to be seen whether or not ArenaNet can operate a AAA MMORPG on a no -sub model.
As ofhers have said, if they do pull it off, it's likely to change the landscape of MMO payment models significantly.
Also GW2 will probally have a shop and yeah you might not have to buy from it but to keep up with other people you will probally ahve to spend at least $10 a month or somthing.. so most people will end up paying the same amount anyway each month..
Why do you even bother posting if you're not even informed about the game's cash shop... For god sake! THE DIRECTOR OF ANET SAID IT WILL BE PURELY COSMETIC! Noticed the words PURELY and COSMETIC there? The same thing as they have in GW1 now, the same freaking model is going in use for GW2... If GW1 managed to be alive for so long and it provided enough money (with some minor donations from "the fond for the dark days") for GW2 to be developed for so many years (YES! They used the funds from GW1 to fund GW2 dev from the beginning since they had no seperate staff at that time [since they didn't even know if they gonna do the game or not])... Please, try to be informed if you're already bullshiting about the game's mechanic of making money...
Actually, you're the one who is uninformed. If you'll read back through the thread, you'll find a lovely little quote about the cash shop, including the possibility of charging for additional stories, dungeons, maps, and there's even mention of XP potions. Sounds like a little bit more than "purely cosmetic". How ironic that you mention more than once how uninformed someone is, when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
"
Eric Flannum sent us a note to clarify a couple of things about their plans for Guild Wars 2 post-release content:
“We haven’t decided on what exactly we are or aren’t going to offer for money post-release. We’re open to whatever our players seem most interested in. If, after release, you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever, it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful. Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store, I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say,) that we’ll release details on it when they are available"
Comments
How about we bring some reality into this discussion...
Eric Flannum sent us a note to clarify a couple of things about their plans for Guild Wars 2 post-release content:
“We haven’t decided on what exactly we are or aren’t going to offer for money post-release. We’re open to whatever our players seem most interested in. If, after release, you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever, it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful. Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store, I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say,) that we’ll release details on it when they are available, and that our core philosophy of not requiring you to spend additional money to play the game and not making the game difficult or painful to play in order to encourage you to buy things from the store still stands.”
So, what do we have here... Sounds like they could be charging for more story.... for more dungeons... for more events and more maps... Could come through DLC (microtransactions!) or expansions.
What else... oh, there might be XP boosts, they will "release details on it when they are available". Could have easily said "No XP boosts", a claim many gw2 fanatics want to make, but no, he left that completely open as a real possibility. That's certainly not "Costmetic Only", as you put it. Neither is charging for dungeons, story, maps, etc.
If you paid less rest assured someone else paid more. The playerbase in general is NOT getting a free play. Someone else paid your way.
Bullshit. While it's not "cosmetic" it's no different than the pay to play game that charges for expansions. You can buy WoW expansions in their online store too. What's the difference?
EQ2 has had an item store for a long time. There's nothing in it that negatively affects gameplay in my opinion. Yes, they have some xp potions....big whoopedy do. They also have double xp weekends all the time in game. You can also drink something for a sex change....omg....alert the media.
Item shop PARANOIA....it's become epidemic.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
If you're saying we'll have to wait and see how the first Buy to Play, AAA MMO works out (anyway, I think it's the first), I completely agree with you. We don't know yet. For all we know, the game may somehow manage to suck despite the reviews, the interviews, and the hype. I hope not, but it might. Or it could somehow turn into a cash sucking beastie that puts Perfect World to shame (I really doubt that, but we won't know for sure until GW2 has been out awhile, will we?) And of course, just like every other humans, the developers could *gasp* lie to us about anything and everything.
The hope is that Guild Wars 2 will have a buy to play system that delights its users, makes everyone feel like we're getting a great deal for a great game, and yes, that makes plenty of money for the developers, distributors, and everyone else involved in the creation of the game, including the janitorial staff (after all, they're the ones doing the really yucky jobs!). If GW2 is a massive success, some of us would like to see other games move in the buy to play direction. That's all this is. Hope for a better game with a better payment model than what we've had in the past. No reason for anyone to go all class warfare about it. Although we all can if it will provide everyone with sufficient amusement on a slow Friday. Let me know, I'm quite good at hurling catchy slogans for entertainment purposes only.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
If you'd bother to read the posts, you'd see that I am simply refuting his baseless claims.
I am not complaining about cash shops, I have no problem with them whatsoever, but some of these fanatics need to understand that this is going to be just another cash shop game like all the others.
How useful are XP boosts in a game with a flat leveling curve? How useful is speeding past content in a game that isn't all about end game? Not the most handy of items, maybe some would buy them but playing GW2 for what it is and offers rules them out as any kind of serious money spinner. Downloadable content is fine, no difference to buying expansions, sure they might be smaller chunks but Anet would be foolish to do anything other than give them a competitive price. GW2 has a bigger map and more content than the original chapter of Guild wars, having to buy further content isn't going to be an immediate problem. If your worried about them patching in nothing for free I suggest you investigate what happened with Guild Wars, they got a significant free patch today.
I am paying for the freedom of not being 'nickel and dimed' everytime I turn around. I do not, nor will I ever support a "Free to play" / "Pay to Win" Micro-transaction business model.
"somehow manage to suck despite the reviews, the interviews, and the hype".... Have you not paid attention to MMO's for the past 5 years? Have you not seen time and time again that games do, in fact, end up sucking more often than not.
Your "better" payment model is not better for all. For everyone who doesn't buy from the cash shop, someone else has to be there spending enough to make up for it. That's your "better" payment model, a bunch of people freeloading.
I don't care about cashshops. However, do you not understand why it has become epidemic? While I don't really mind people getting an option they support (those who like CS) at the same time, there was an age where you got it all for a flat fee, either a box price or sub paid for it all. That just isn't the case today. Many miss those times and want them back, can you really blame them?
If something is in a shop it should be in the game as well, to earn while playing. If it's not players lose out on options. I don't care how you spin it, that is not a good thing. Should a cosmetic oriented player have to pay more to not look like random clone numer 200056? No they shouldn't.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's nice to see that not all mmo players have been blinded by the b2p hype. It's just a f2p with a cash shop...but you have to buy the client.
Most people have been screaming "But it wasn't that way in GW1" like that is saying something.
Amazing how people have changed their tunes from "it's only cosmitic" to it's no differant than buying an expansion. Spending money is spending money. In gw2 you'll have to constantly spend to keep up eith the latest content.
It's got a CASH SHOP....nuf said.
A monthly fee versus the F2P method deters griefers by putting a financial penalty for getting perma-banned. In F2P they can set up a new account in minutes and get back to griefing. At $30 a pop and a monthly fee that is a strong deterrent for griefers. Even a small $5 activation fee would go a long way to culling griefers in the F2P mmos.
Historically, I'm paying for a more complete and better game when I purchase a subscription based game.
Please note this is to date and maybe, just maybe, GW2 will buck that trend, but I have my doubts.
There are more factors when it comes to sub fee than just game quality.
First off, there's human inertia. WoW grabbed a hold of the P2P market first. People who have been subscribed to WoW are inclined to stay with WoW because thats where their progress is. It's where their friends are. People are not inclined to pay two subscriptions. So for a game to maintain a long subscriber base, the game has to be so much better than WoW for them not only to buy it in the first place, but to stick with it and for them to be able to convince their friends to also switch. That is an enormous hurdle for anybody to overcome.
Not just that, but the landscape is changing. Maybe people are inclined to keep paying for WoW because they've been doing it and are invested, with a lot of other MMO options out there and a changing F2P landscape, people aren't necessarily inclined to subscribe to new things. Maybe SWTOR will prove this wrong, but the only recent moderately successful datapoint is Rift, and that's got aboout 500k subs.
Being P2P is not just printing money. Sure, if you do dethrone WoW it's a huge cash cow, but if you can't (and nobody has proven you can), it's not the best way to earn. Being a B2P MMO means probably vastly more sales, which means more expansion sales and microtransactions. Maybe if they do sell 12 million copies and surpass WoW someone will say damn, we should have gone P2P, but probably not, because they'd have never gotten that many being P2P in the first place.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
If something is in a shop it should be in the game as well, to earn while playing. If it's not players lose out on options. I don't care how you spin it, that is not a good thing. Should a cosmetic oriented player have to pay more to not look like random clone numer 200056? No they shouldn't.
GW always had a cash shop, sure it expanded as the game grew but it was there from day one (skill unlock packs for those who couldn't be bothered to play the game). At the end of the day all you have to consider is the game worth supporting? Now most FTP titles have built in road blocks so you are forced to pay if you don't want to face mammoth grind or continually unlucky rolls of a dice, freemium models have the same kind of road blocks - LOTRO's system involves a lot of grind if you want to unlock content, AoC simply denies you the full content unless you pay. GW2 is offering you a full game. I agree that games that charge a sub should never sell content, cosmetic or not, but GW2 asks for no sub, if GW is anything to go by and looking at whats been released on GW2, my guess is that cosmetic shop items will be town clothes while your armour options are going to be equally varied from game play. So yes if you're of an RP mind you may well spend more, the question will still remain is the game worth supporting?
I do believe that I was responding to the TITLE of this discussion thread. Which for your own education was "MMOs with subscription fees... what are you pay for?". What I wrote is MY answer to that question....not yours...MINE. Thank you for playing.
Let's party like it is 1863!
Like I said I don't mind the cash shop I'm not a cosmetic oriented player so again I don't mind what doesn't effect me personally. I was more or less playing devils advocate there.
As an aside, I was unaware Prophecies released with a CS? I don't remember one which says to me it wasn't intrusive, hopefully that's also the case in GW2.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
GW2 is offering you a full game... except for all of the DLC you'll need to purchase to play the full game. What makes you people think this game is being built any differently than every other f2p game out there? The ONLY difference is they're making you pay up front. And after that, they'll do everything they can to force/influence/coerce/trick you into spending money in the cash shop. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the cash shop, there's just clearly something wrong with those who believe that NCSoft is going to treat this game any different than the rest of their titles. They want to squeeze every penny they can out of you, end of story.
The highest Activision shares has ever peaked was about 17.72 and this was a year before Blizzard's merger. Since the merger Activision/Blizzard stocks have flatlined between 11-13.
Trust me unless you bought shares between 1994-2001, there is no reall money to be made as a shareholder for them.
GW2 is offering you a full game. I agree that games that charge a sub should never sell content, cosmetic or not, but GW2 asks for no sub, if GW is anything to go by and looking at whats been released on GW2, my guess is that cosmetic shop items will be town clothes while your armour options are going to be equally varied from game play. So yes if you're of an RP mind you may well spend more, the question will still remain is the game worth supporting?
Like I said I don't mind the cash shop I'm not a cosmetic oriented player so again I don't mind what doesn't effect me personally. I was more or less playing devils advocate there.
As an aside, I was unaware Prophecies released with a CS? I don't remember one which says to me it wasn't intrusive, hopefully that's also the case in GW2.
I can't honestly remember how those items were accessed, a good thing, like you stated, I can't remember because it wasn't in my face. Currently the cash shop option sits at the top right of your character selection screen, big enough to be noticed but not 'in your face', I'm guessing that's the place they'll keep it, it's a logical place when your looking at characters, maybe thinking of an extra slot or costume.
Yeah nothing is worse than in AOC where it's the first thing you see when you log in, as long as it's not like that i'll have no complaints.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Nope the full game will be what you buy at release, a complete personal storyline and world storyline set on a map filled with more content than the original GW released with, so YES you are getting the full game - 25 zones full of dynamic events (not static quests), hundreds of hours of content and 8 dungeons each with three different modes and a story mode, sounds like a full game to me.
Anet got a very autonomous deal when they signed to NCSoft, otherwise what would have happened to GW1 ? It wouldn't be the game it is now if it was ruled according to your take on what will happen. Anet are primarily gamers who are very aware they need to succeed financially if they want to carry on building the games they like and keep the jobs they so obviously love, seriously they are the last people I would accuse of trying to squeeze you out of every last penny.
Edit: Also please stop calling it a F2P game, it's not, the financial model is miles apart from that, it's B2P.
Yes I do know that Anet is owned by NCSoft....I have an NCSoft account so I can play Guild Wars. Guild Wars has made NCSoft more money than any of their other games. In fact, they use the money made from Guild Wars to finance their other excursions into the MMO world (like Aion). All this while GW was a B2P game with a very small cosmetic cash shop.
The ideals of Anet are to make money (yes they are a business so they do want to make money - and I have no problem with that) while making the best MMO games on the market. Not to make as much money as possible to keep their jobs, if that means doing what they consider to be gouging the people who play their games.
Crap, I just fell off your bridge again. Damn.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Why do you even bother posting if you're not even informed about the game's cash shop... For god sake! THE DIRECTOR OF ANET SAID IT WILL BE PURELY COSMETIC! Noticed the words PURELY and COSMETIC there? The same thing as they have in GW1 now, the same freaking model is going in use for GW2... If GW1 managed to be alive for so long and it provided enough money (with some minor donations from "the fond for the dark days") for GW2 to be developed for so many years (YES! They used the funds from GW1 to fund GW2 dev from the beginning since they had no seperate staff at that time [since they didn't even know if they gonna do the game or not])... Please, try to be informed if you're already bullshiting about the game's mechanic of making money...
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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Actually, you're the one who is uninformed. If you'll read back through the thread, you'll find a lovely little quote about the cash shop, including the possibility of charging for additional stories, dungeons, maps, and there's even mention of XP potions. Sounds like a little bit more than "purely cosmetic". How ironic that you mention more than once how uninformed someone is, when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
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Eric Flannum sent us a note to clarify a couple of things about their plans for Guild Wars 2 post-release content:
“We haven’t decided on what exactly we are or aren’t going to offer for money post-release. We’re open to whatever our players seem most interested in. If, after release, you guys would like more story content, more dungeons, more events, more maps or whatever, it’s something that we have to consider because ultimately making you happy is what makes us successful. Whether we release that in DLC (like the bonus mission packs in GW1) or whether we do it through expansions (Like Eye of the North) is yet to be determined. As to whether or not there are going to be items like XP boosts available in the in game store, I can only reiterate what we’ve said before (and will continue to say,) that we’ll release details on it when they are available"