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Korea May Ban D3 over Real Money Auction House trading

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  • CyberWizCyberWiz AntwerpPosts: 950Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    Originally posted by CyberWiz


    Originally posted by Loke666

    Still, Blizzard is too greedy in this case, the whole idea is just terrible, particularly for a game like Diablo. I used to think that SOE stations servers were bad but there you can at least choose to play on anothe server.

    In a perfect world I would agree with you, but with all the illegal RMT going on, why should Blizzard not get a piece of the pie and nerf some illegal sellers while they are at it.

    I hope that by having legal RMT, Blizzard will have the funds ( funds from D3 itself, so that it is profitable ) and the willingness to put in the effort to elliminate the botters and scammers as much as possible. They will have a vested interest in keeping the game healthy, unlike DiabloII where they have nothing to gain.

    The thing is that even without the RMAH you do not have the choice to play RMT free because of all the illegal RMT.

    The only other way to combat illegal RMT ( besides legal RMT ) is with a subscription fee, where Blizzard would have another way of funding updates, adn the fight against botters, scammers and RMT.

    But if you look at WoW, where they really have put some effort in combatting this, they also failed.

    So the pragmatic solution is :

    - Make RMT legal

    - Do it yourself ( Blizzard ) and make profit from it

    - Use this profit to combat the rest of the illegal RMT market, together with the scammers and botters.

    In a perfect world, illegal narcotics wouldn't be such a problem. But it's going to happen no matter how hard the US government tries, so why shouldn't they get a piece of the narcotics trade and compete against the illegal sellers?

    Well you have a good point, and in fact alcohol and tobacco are a good example of regulated legal narcotics in the US. While Marihuana is an example in Holland and Belgium.

    Yes, I realize that's a slippery slope argument at it's core, but my point is that one shouldn't forgo one's own principles simply because it's inconvenient and less profitable.

    Besides, how exactly does Blizzard legitimizing RMT actually handle any of the ills that come from it? People's accounts will still be hijacked for their items, players will still scam other players, players will still have a monetary incentive to exploit bugs, hack the game, bot, etc. So Blizzard 'getting in on the RMT action' isn't actually combating any of the downsides to RMT, it's just shifting where some of the profit of it goes.

    By legalizing RMT there will be at least a percentage of items that are gained by playing the game is it is meant to be played, so the AH will at least contain a good part of legal items, and most likely also a good part of illegal items. Blizzard can then spend the money earned to improve the game and combat the botters and scammers.

    And that's why I think it's a purely greed motivated move on Blizzard's part. By making RMT acceptable they're by association also promoting all of the bad behavior associated with RMT. But they don't care, because they're making money off of it.

    Well, again, straight microtransactions are worse imho ( and the only alternative for a F2P title, unless you go freemium ), because in that case they are conjuring items out of thin air, and the game no longer has to be played.

    To conclude, I would prefer that Diablo3 would be a subscription game, with an even playing field, but nowadays I guess that is out of the question, so I prefer legal RMT between players over Microtransactions within a cash shop.

     

     

    If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
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    Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    Originally posted by RelytDnegel

    I really need to stop reading this thread. Trying to convince people that the RMAH is not a form of gambling is very similar to banging my head on a brick wall. It's painful and is going nowhere. gg
     


     
    I personally didnt say it wasnt, I just said;
    All MMORPGs are based on the gambling mentallity. The player high of a payoff is a major hook in their pyschology.
    Even in sub games you gamble, the only difference is that the currency in use is time.
    The RMAH concept dosent make this any better or worse. 
     
    If you play MMORPGs, you gamble. End of.
     
    But I guess you don't see anything but your PoV either :/



    You're both right. MMORPG and Hack/Slash adventure games are a form of gambling. The RMAH is an auction house, which while it may share some similarities with gambling, isn't gambling in the generally accepted definition of gambling.

    South Korea is concerned with converting something earned through gambling into real world money. They have other laws in place to address the gambling mentality that can take over when players are playing online video games.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by bunnyhopper


    Originally posted by RelytDnegel

    I really need to stop reading this thread. Trying to convince people that the RMAH is not a form of gambling is very similar to banging my head on a brick wall. It's painful and is going nowhere. gg

     

     

    I personally didnt say it wasnt, I just said;

    All MMORPGs are based on the gambling mentallity. The player high of a payoff is a major hook in their pyschology.

    Even in sub games you gamble, the only difference is that the currency in use is time.

    The RMAH concept dosent make this any better or worse. 

     

    If you play MMORPGs, you gamble. End of.

     

    But I guess you don't see anything but your PoV either :/

    I wasn't refering to you in all fairness and I agree with your over all notion in terms of "gambling" in the sense that I "gamble" every time I cross the road.

     

    What I personally am arguing against is the notion that some in this thread have that the D3 mechanics some how count as gambling in the sense that can actually be legislated against by sporting and gaming license agencies.

     



    What would be occuring in D3 would be more akin to work and thus should be legislated and taxed as such. People who salvage wrecks spend an inordinate amount of time and money in the hope of a return, but they don't report to the governments gaming and gambling authority.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    Originally posted by vesavius

    Originally posted by bunnyhopper


    Originally posted by RelytDnegel

    I really need to stop reading this thread. Trying to convince people that the RMAH is not a form of gambling is very similar to banging my head on a brick wall. It's painful and is going nowhere. gg
     


     
    I personally didnt say it wasnt, I just said;
    All MMORPGs are based on the gambling mentallity. The player high of a payoff is a major hook in their pyschology.
    Even in sub games you gamble, the only difference is that the currency in use is time.
    The RMAH concept dosent make this any better or worse. 
     
    If you play MMORPGs, you gamble. End of.
     
    But I guess you don't see anything but your PoV either :/


    I wasn't refering to you in all fairness and I agree with your over all notion in terms of "gambling" in the sense that I "gamble" every time I cross the road.
     
    What I personally am arguing against is the notion that some in this thread have that the D3 mechanics some how count as gambling in the sense that can actually be legislated against by sporting and gaming license agencies.

    What would be occuring in D3 would be more akin to work and thus should be legislated and taxed as such. People who salvage wrecks spend an inordinate amount of time and money in the hope of a return, but they don't report to the governments gaming and gambling authority.




    The mechanics can count as gambling that can be legislated on. South Korea has already done it with other games. That's why other games in South Korea do not allow you to 'cash out' of the game. You can't play Lineage II and legally sell your in game currency for real world currency in South Korea. Unless Blizzard can argue that there is a big difference between what people in Lineage do and what people in Diablo do to earn in game currency, either the RMAH will be disabled or D3 will not be legal to play in South Korea.

    ** Disclaimer **
    The RMAH is one of the main reasons I would actually play D3. I was not really considering playing D3 seriously until they announced the RMAH.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Mari2kMari2k rzhz, MNPosts: 371Member

    Originally posted by lennpell

    This is good, because Blizzard knows koreans love these types of games and they'd lose so many sales it'd be ridic, we might just have our saving grace for the AH here guys.

    I doubt that Diablo is that popular in asia.... its just not their style and the korean like pvp, diablo was never famous for it.

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member

    Originally posted by romanator0

    Originally posted by thegypsyking


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

    How so?

    When gambling you pay somebody money to get a chance to make more money.

    The the RMAH you pay Blizzard money to get a chance to make some money.

    In both you aren't guaranteed to make anything.

    Looks like they have the same basic principles to me.

    Except that you are promised a sale price and actually recieve the reward 100% of the time..

  • Deathwing980Deathwing980 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 80Member

    Basically what they are saying is this...

     

    Diablo 2 had Unidentified items, Players will post said Unidentified items up (that are high quality types of items) then players will use real money to purchase said item, then use a scroll to identify and then it turns out to be a piece  of shit item... thus it is know Gambling for items

     

    As much as i like the diablo series, i completely hate the fact that we are adding a real money auction system, it really hurts and is just as bad as COD pulling a 15 bucks a month subscription to get little updates for their game... and shitty 17 dollar addons in the game....

     

    companies seriously need to stop throwing shit into gamers faces, they think we are dumb... START VOTING WITH YOUR WALLETS FOLKS NOT YOUR FREAKING EGOS!

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    Originally posted by kilun


    Originally posted by SaintViktor


    Originally posted by thegypsyking


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

     Oh really, then tell us what it is then because bidding on items on an AH is gambling.

     And bidding on eBay is gambling as well then?  So is any auction in general with that analogy.  You pay a fee to put up an auction to the host(this case the host is blizzard)  they take a cut of the sale price(in their case its a flat fee regardless of final price)  Your a seller, most sellers have a monetary value attached, if people ever ran a small business(be it a table at a flea market with a cost per table) to selling on Ebay they would understand basic businesses economics 101: You got to put up money to make money.

    Yes, I can without a doubt understand the thought process because frankly it is close to gambling in a sense that we want to win something and get caught up in auctions.  But gambling is blowing money with a chance to win more money, item, etc.  In this case the buyer puts up nothing if they do not win, so it does not equal gambling.

     Lets say you put up an item on the RMAH and it costs you a $1 fee for the listing fee and $1.00 for the transaction fee for using the RMAH. The item sells for $8.00 on the RMAH, right then and there is a profit. From your own words.... But gambling is blowing money with a chance to win more money, item, etc. Its gambling....

    By this logic, ebay is gambling, have they banned ebay?  (That's not a completely smartass question.  If they didn't ban the use of ebay, why not?  Why is it ok to use one form of auction and not another?)  

  • TalinTalin West Babylon, NYPosts: 824Member

    Originally posted by romanator0

    Originally posted by thegypsyking


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

    How so?

    When gambling you pay somebody money to get a chance to make more money.

    The the RMAH you pay Blizzard money to get a chance to make some money.

    In both you aren't guaranteed to make anything.

    Looks like they have the same basic principles to me.

    I disagree. THE RMAH is the in-game equivalent to eBay. Someone is providing a good for a price. You choose whether or not to purchase it with your real money. You know what you are purchasing, you know for how much; what is a gamble here? The fact that someone may not buy your item? That's not gambling at all.

     

  • TalRashaTalRasha GroningenPosts: 827Member

    Originally posted by Requiamer






    Originally posted by TalRasha

    Please explain how you pay for the random number generator.









    You pay for the box, and you pay to put your items on the auction house. The game is the holder of the RNG.

    People that pretend to not see the similarity are pretty twisted here.

    People who don't use the AH also pay for the box. The box price has nothing to do with the AH.

     

    I already explained in my post that paying a fee to auction something is not gambling, if it were, eBay would also be illegal in Korea, wich it isn't.

     

    There certainly is a similarity with gambling, I'll give you that. If you had to pay money every time before you killed a monster, that would certainly be like a slotmachine. The distinct difference is that you don't pay before killing a monster, you only pay a fee after you already won something.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member

    Originally posted by Talin

    Originally posted by romanator0


    Originally posted by thegypsyking


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

    How so?

    When gambling you pay somebody money to get a chance to make more money.

    The the RMAH you pay Blizzard money to get a chance to make some money.

    In both you aren't guaranteed to make anything.

    Looks like they have the same basic principles to me.

    I disagree. THE RMAH is the in-game equivalent to eBay. Someone is providing a good for a price. You choose whether or not to purchase it with your real money. You know what you are purchasing, you know for how much; what is a gamble here? The fact that someone may not buy your item? That's not gambling at all.

     

     

    The SELLER is the gambler.  Rely on the roll of dice to get a good item to sell, then pay Blizz for your chance to sell it on the AH.  If you don't sell it....you lose your bet that you WOULD sell it.

    I know....you're still not convinced.  Doesn't matter to me.  I'm going to play Torchlight, so....my interest in D3 is only because I played D2 LOD Online and remember it fondly.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • Deathwing980Deathwing980 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 80Member

    are any of you guys listening? They can post up unidentified gear onto the auction house, and identification scrolls along with it... they are trying to say that if a player purchases an UNIDENTIFIED ITEM they will have to pay real money for it for the price that the player sets then identify it, and if its not what they were priced to be or what it was supposed to be... then THATS GAMBLING

     

    Remember Wirt? and the gambling system he had for in game gold.... its going to be exactly that with real money though on the auction house

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member

    Originally posted by sldrop

    Originally posted by marinrider


    Originally posted by romanator0


    Originally posted by thegypsyking


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

    How so?

    When gambling you pay somebody money to get a chance to make more money.

    The the RMAH you pay Blizzard money to get a chance to make some money.

    In both you aren't guaranteed to make anything.

    Looks like they have the same basic principles to me.

    This AH is not gambling.  If it was than any form of real auction would be gambling.  Gambling is when your betting against numbers or odds.  With something like Trading the stock market (which by your definition is gambling), RMAH, or any other auction or even "Mary Kay" or tuperware selling, its all based on your skill and your devotion.  

     

    I was thinking like you too @marinrider ;

    but after reading http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/09/diablo-3-and-illegal-online-gambling.html it change my thoughts.

    Whereas WOW had fixed loot tables and drops in an "Achiever Economy", Diablo 3 random wins are "indeterministic" and everything has a random chance of dropping varying levels of value. There is no skill required in WHAT drops.. you can't control it, it's like a roulette wheel. So, the "loot generation" is purely a game of chance with no skill. However, there is another game of chance (and skill required) to get TO the loot generation components.. and that's by killing a virtual monster. The gambling part is what the monster might drop when you roll that dice.

    By this logic though, some things would be legal to sell on ebay and others wouldn't.  Most collectable card games for example, have common, rare, ultrarare, etc.  Would selling those be considered gambling because you have a random chance of getting them?  It is pure chance if i open a pack and get one of the "ultra rare" cards, it takes no skill to tear open a wrapper.

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member

    Originally posted by Talin

    Originally posted by romanator0


    Originally posted by thegypsyking


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

    How so?

    When gambling you pay somebody money to get a chance to make more money.

    The the RMAH you pay Blizzard money to get a chance to make some money.

    In both you aren't guaranteed to make anything.

    Looks like they have the same basic principles to me.

    I disagree. THE RMAH is the in-game equivalent to eBay. Someone is providing a good for a price. You choose whether or not to purchase it with your real money. You know what you are purchasing, you know for how much; what is a gamble here? The fact that someone may not buy your item? That's not gambling at all.

     

    To encourage a system like this would mean only that we will have buy2win system in games... I hate the idea of D3's cash AH... The whole thing has "WE WANT PROFIT" written over it.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • jinxxed0jinxxed0 columbia, SCPosts: 838Member

    I find it funny so many people hate the RMT in Diablo 3. I'm considering getting D3 because of it. Its a great chance to make some cash. I already know its possible to make mony with games with Second Life and Entropia, so I'l give this a shot. You can still have fun and buy stuff with gold. And then just sell stuff for cash or gold if its not good enough. Sounds perfect. I guess if you're one of those people caught up in having to have the absolute best gear, then that sucks.

     

    Idk why people are still complaining, just go play torch light. Complaining about it here wont change D3. 

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member

    Originally posted by just1opinion

    Originally posted by Talin


    Originally posted by romanator0


    Originally posted by thegypsyking


    Originally posted by RefMinor

     

    I disagree. THE RMAH is the in-game equivalent to eBay. Someone is providing a good for a price. You choose whether or not to purchase it with your real money. You know what you are purchasing, you know for how much; what is a gamble here? The fact that someone may not buy your item? That's not gambling at all.

     

     

    The SELLER is the gambler.  Rely on the roll of dice to get a good item to sell, then pay Blizz for your chance to sell it on the AH.  If you don't sell it....you lose your bet that you WOULD sell it.

    I know....you're still not convinced.  Doesn't matter to me.  I'm going to play Torchlight, so....my interest in D3 is only because I played D2 LOD Online and remember it fondly.

    The seller is not a gambler, he is not paying per roll of loot. If he gets shit loot he doesn't have to pay to sell it.

     

    What you are charged for on the auction is an auction fee. Strangely enough auction fees and auctions are not gambling.

     

     

     

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by niceguy3978

    Originally posted by sldrop

    Originally posted by marinrider


    Originally posted by romanator0


    Originally posted by thegypsyking


    Originally posted by RefMinor
    I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.
    The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.


    How so?
    When gambling you pay somebody money to get a chance to make more money.
    The the RMAH you pay Blizzard money to get a chance to make some money.
    In both you aren't guaranteed to make anything.
    Looks like they have the same basic principles to me.


    This AH is not gambling.  If it was than any form of real auction would be gambling.  Gambling is when your betting against numbers or odds.  With something like Trading the stock market (which by your definition is gambling), RMAH, or any other auction or even "Mary Kay" or tuperware selling, its all based on your skill and your devotion.  
     


    I was thinking like you too @marinrider 
    but after reading http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/09/diablo-3-and-illegal-online-gambling.html it change my thoughts.
    Whereas WOW had fixed loot tables and drops in an "Achiever Economy", Diablo 3 random wins are "indeterministic" and everything has a random chance of dropping varying levels of value. There is no skill required in WHAT drops.. you can't control it, it's like a roulette wheel. So, the "loot generation" is purely a game of chance with no skill. However, there is another game of chance (and skill required) to get TO the loot generation components.. and that's by killing a virtual monster. The gambling part is what the monster might drop when you roll that dice.


    By this logic though, some things would be legal to sell on ebay and others wouldn't.  Most collectable card games for example, have common, rare, ultrarare, etc.  Would selling those be considered gambling because you have a random chance of getting them?  It is pure chance if i open a pack and get one of the "ultra rare" cards, it takes no skill to tear open a wrapper.



    If players exhibited behavior similar to gambling addiction in relation to collectable cards, then it would get banned in South Korea. It is irrelevant what the activity entails. It only matters what the result is. If the end result is that players will exhibit gambling behavior, up to and including gambling addiction type behavior, then the game or the game system will get banned.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Originally posted by empyros

    /popcorn

    ~

    Pertinent reply by Vadoff:

    What’s really funny about this is Korea is the KING when it comes to microtransactions, and virtual items bought with real currency. Almost all of their online games have systems like that.

    So it’s really boggling, why D3′s real money trade would be considered “gambling”. I think the Korean game reviewers are confused about the randomization aspects… gambling is about risk, there’s no risk at all with D3. You can’t ever LOSE money. It’s not like the items you buy from D3 have a 25% chance of disappearing once bought, or something like that. It makes no sense.

    Posting something requires an up front fee.  If it doesn't sell, it's money lost.  Except for Blizzard who wins no matter what happens.

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,767Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by SaintViktor

    Looks like it could be the begining of the end of the RMAH. Stay tuned.....

     

    Source: http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/korea-may-ban-d3-over-real-money-trading

    This is more a issue for games like some of the PWI games where you can buy a mystery box off the market with a chance of a rare cool prize or more often some basic level stuff.  I don't really see a difference between that and a slot machine to be honest.

    D3's system I think would be hard pressed to say is gambling since you know exactly what your buying.  Even the argument that you are trading time for a chance at a good item seems a bit weak to me.   Lots of activities could be called gambling if that's the case.  Is treasure hunting on a beach with a metal detector gambling than?

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Originally posted by Deathwing980

    are any of you guys listening? They can post up unidentified gear onto the auction house, and identification scrolls along with it... they are trying to say that if a player purchases an UNIDENTIFIED ITEM they will have to pay real money for it for the price that the player sets then identify it, and if its not what they were priced to be or what it was supposed to be... then THATS GAMBLING

     

    Remember Wirt? and the gambling system he had for in game gold.... its going to be exactly that with real money though on the auction house

    I actually was on the side of this not being gambling, but if this is true, then yes, gambling is the only way to describe it.  It's the same premise as lotteries where you pay money for the chance of winning something big, but the ticket itself has no intrinsic value.  But before the numbers are revealed (ie, the item is identified), you don't know what you're going to get.  Most likely, you'll get nothing.  How this isn't gambling, I don't know.

    And yes, lotteries are legal, but in my country, they need to be licensed by the provincial government.  Who will be licensing the great Blizzard lottery and in which jurisdiction?

  • RoccprofitRoccprofit SMITHVILLE, TXPosts: 98Member

     The legal problem is really only the tip of the iceburg and  I think many are over looking that and not looking at the real trouble this will bring.

     I have seen many stories about this person or that person not paying there bills to be able to play there mmo in some really sad cases some of these people have died chasing a digitized dream. Add this system and some kid that has no concept of money will be running up mom and dad's credit card running the family into finacial troubles so they can have that "gotta have" item.

     This is no better then gold farming and the idiots that buy gold because they are to lazy to go make it IN A GAME! Gold farming and anything like it ruin game economy's because people think that there is some point to making a lot of imaginary gold or in hitting the gold cap. There is no reward or anything given for doing this and it is a pointless endeavor.

    I have never had to buy gold/credits/whatever in any game I have played getting the money for anything I want is just a matter of playing the game and doing the things that make said money and I have NEVER found myself lacking for something I wanted/needed to inprove my charactor.

     People take imaaginary credit's/gold way to seriously, look at all the gold farmers that sell gold, they are willing to break laws to sell there gold to people. They are willing to violate peoples privacy and steal what they need just to make money selling gold. Make all these transactions invole real money and you think people are self centered and rude in games now, you have seen nothing yet.

     Games are suppose to be about stepping away from the real world for a bit and having a good time the same way hollywood got it's start making movies to let people step away from the troubles of the depresion and forget there troubles for a little bit, Bring real money into it in this form and it will ruin the entire point of the game.

    image

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Atlanta, GAPosts: 2,014Member Common

    Let's see here, what are my options, given the ACTUAL state of RMT (including cash shops) in MMOs?:

     

    1.  I can compete with players who break the rules against buying gold by breaking those rules myself.

     

    2.  I can refuse to break the rules and be at a disadvantage to players that do break them.

     

    3.  I can buy items that affect stats from the game company on top of paying a sub and buying expansions, therefore encouraging the game company to view me as an ATM machine.

     

    4.  I can refuse to buy items that affect stats from the game company on top of paying a sub and be at a disadvantage against players who do buy from the store.

     

    4.  I can play a game that allows me to buy items from players and sell items to players for real money while still staying within the rules.  True, the game company making that game will get a cut of the transactions, so it would depend on how often I played the game, what the cut was and how fortunate I was with drops as to whether I'd come out even without damaging my enjoyment of the game, or even come out ahead (at least getting to play the game for free).

     

    I'll take #4, please.  Or the total eradication of cash shop + sub models and the total eradication of illicit RMT.  Which we all know by now isn't going to happen.  In other words, I'm interested to see how this will turn out. 

     

    Meanwhile, the government of South Korea probably wants to ban this, not because of gambling, and certainly not over some objection to RMT, but because it's easier to keep track of game companies operating in their country plus keep track of a few gold farmers operating illegally than it is to keep track of money in a giant, unregulated pixel market with a lot more people getting involved.

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    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • CelciusCelcius Franklin, TNPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon

    If you read the article it is basically some dude saying "this other game didn't make it past the rating board cause it had items for sale" it does not actually say that Korea may ban Diablo 3. That is just speculation, the article title is misleading. If the rating board in Korea would not allow Diablo 3 sales with the RMAH, then they will simply disable it for that country. 

  • RoccprofitRoccprofit SMITHVILLE, TXPosts: 98Member

    Originally posted by Madimorga

    Let's see here, what are my options, given the ACTUAL state of RMT (including cash shops) in MMOs?:

     

    1.  I can compete with players who break the rules against buying gold by breaking those rules myself.

     

    2.  I can refuse to break the rules and be at a disadvantage to players that do break them.

     

    3.  I can buy items that affect stats from the game company on top of paying a sub and buying expansions, therefore encouraging the game company to view me as an ATM machine.

     

    4.  I can refuse to buy items that affect stats from the game company on top of paying a sub and be at a disadvantage against players who do buy from the store.

     

    4.  I can play a game that allows me to buy items from players and sell items to players for real money while still staying within the rules.  True, the game company making that game will get a cut of the transactions, so it would depend on how often I played the game, what the cut was and how fortunate I was with drops as to whether I'd come out even without damaging my enjoyment of the game, or even come out ahead (at least getting to play the game for free).

     

    I'll take #4, please.  Or the total eradication of cash shop + sub models and the total eradication of illicit RMT.  Which we all know by now isn't going to happen.  In other words, I'm interested to see how this will turn out. 

     

    Meanwhile, the government of South Korea probably wants to ban this, not because of gambling, and certainly not over some objection to RMT, but because it's easier to keep track of game companies operating in their country plus keep track of a few gold farmers operating illegally than it is to keep track of money in a giant, unregulated pixel market with a lot more people getting involved.



     you forgot

    5. You can play a game involing the buying and selling of imaginary items using real money, although subs fees can be viewed this way, if you look at it from a reality point of view you are paying a sub to acess someone else's property, the game and why should they not be paid for there effort? If you go on vacation and rent a room or a car and go see a movie do you own them ? no you don't. If you want to see it again you pay again just like next month you pay your sub again.

     Prices in wow were out of control on the auction house, I can not count the number of times I have seen an item on the auction house that the game said was worth 10-20gp and the sellers had it marked for 50k gp ..... People did that because some idiot saw the price, went and bought gold and paid that price thereby creating the illusion that people would pay that price so others jacked up there prices which caused more fools to go to the gold farmers to get the gold to make that purchase.

    I have seen in mmo's people running bots to get that item, blocking access to area where said item drops, using exploits and dheats to make there gold.

     I have seen people join a group and steal the most valuable item that drops screwing everyone else to make credits.

    That was for IMAGINARY gold. If you think that people will not camp/farm things and put them on the auction house for insane prices for real money and that some fool won't buy it if the price is to high then you are fooling yourself.

     All these cash shops springing up and people using the arguement that they are better because there is no sub are just really bad at math. I have played a lot of "free 2 play" games with a cash shop and in every case it cost at least 15-20 per month just to keep up with the best and newest gear. You can't load out a charactor for less then $90 every 6 moths or so and more often then not it is more like $100-$150 which that price every 6 months works out to right about $300 for the year.... I rather pay my $15 sub costing me $180 for the year thanks.

     People paid upwards of $5k U.S for pre cu jedi just so they would not have to grind the charactor them selfs, I have seen fully geared wow toons going on ebay for $300-$1000. I have not looked in several months but, that is what people were paying for IMAGINARY charactors.

     5K that is just short of 27 YEARS of game time @ $15 per month, 1K is about 5.5 years @ $15 per month.

     Let us assume that greed won't be a factor, and that people put items up for $5 each, the average toon has 10 slots, 9 armor and 1 weapon, there are more but, lets go with that for the moment, You just spent $50 IN ONE MONTH!!! in 2-3 months there is going to be more gear you want/need not to mention everyone has gotten use to buying crystals/stones/tapes/enchants whatever to improve there charactor ..... the price at LEAST just doubled to $100 per evey 3 months or so heck it can go to six months at that rate and you are still paying more then a sub. This mind you assuing people will be resonable when it comes to real money. If you believe they will be resonable, you do not know people very well.

     

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  • mrxennonmrxennon JarrowPosts: 209Member

    I think that the RMAH is going into dangerous territory with the law in different countries.  I think if a case came to court in the UK  judges might throw out any cases about ownership over virtual items.  I just cant see value of a virtual item being upheld.  I think its going to open a can of worms up for the legal system.  Virtual items should never have a real economy value imo.

     

     They are just that a virtual item, you will never own it as the publishers own and have the rights to everything you obtain virtually including the software to run any software, you only buy the licence to run it.

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