I can't blame the OP for posting this on this site. This isn't the first time I've heard these kinds of concerns, and it's obvious that not enough is being done to resolve them. At least the GW2GURU people can't delete this thread so quickly or easily.
For those of you who accuse the OP of flaming: how would anything we care about improve if we don't draw attention to weaknesses or flaws? Flaming is the act of complaining with no redemptive value, which is not the case with the OP.
Meh. You're simply posting on a board that is run by straight up fanboys. What sort of response do you expect when you criticize their beloved game? If you feel stifled, simply stop posting there and move on. Posting your complaints here won't do much.
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Besides, iirc wasn't it the case that ANet would open official forums themselves in due time? Or was that an unfounded, unofficial rumor that I read a while back?
I certainly hope they do have their own official boards at launch.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed: And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!" ~Lord George Gordon Byron
Meh. You're simply posting on a board that is run by straight up fanboys. What sort of response do you expect when you criticize their beloved game? If you feel stifled, simply stop posting there and move on. Posting your complaints here won't do much.
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Besides, iirc wasn't it the case that ANet would open official forums themselves in due time? Or was that an unfounded, unofficial rumor that I read a while back?
I certainly hope they do have their own official boards at launch.
lol, actually at least half of the mods aren't very enthusiastic about the game. one thing i'll say, they're surprisingly objective(moreso than some posters). they may get into petty shit about opinions and such, but there's almost no moderation stemming from criticizing the game itslef. hell, they let dinhosaur(robert dinh on this site) run free for ages. Fernling360 is still active, and he's simply a flat out troll. literally all trolling of every single piece of info that has come out since he started posting there.
it makes it all the more baffling that they fucking impose there will so damn much, but don't clean up the biggest riff raff.
How was my post a flame or a troll? It was neither - it was an attempt at improving the atmosphere of the forums, where many of us find is congestive. What is so wrong with that?
I can agree about taking it to private message or email, which I have already done
You are absolutely right. No part of your post could be considered trolling (no irony here, just the plain truth)
I don't really have a problem with most of the mods on Guru - sure, they're a bit harsh with closing threads sometimes, but I guess I'd rather have that than the trollfest that goes on in most other forums. The few times that my posts have been moderated over there have been warranted, more or less.
I do take issue, though, with the attitude of one particular mod who insists on being a pr*ck about moderating. This dude often makes snide comments after closing a thread and calls the posters names, which is completely unprofessional and uncalled for, in my opinion. If that guy lost his privileges or at least toned down the attitude and d*ckish behaviour somewhat, I'd have pretty much no problem with Guru moderation whatsoever.
ebonized, it's clear from your posts that you have no idea how forums work from
Just because you say something you do isn't trolling it doesn't mean you're right. Read the rules ten times and don't blindly press "Agree" button next time.
Can't fathom why a politely written letter with a genuine concern like that would be closed or removed. I guess the blanket rule of "no discussing moderation" most forums have was abused for that.
Anyway. I wouldn't want to invest my time on a subjective board like that. Most official forums of mmorpgs are more open to critical but constructive feedback compared to that bloated fansite.
Better to stay at mmorpg.com where constructive crtisism and varying opinions are allowed.
Can't fathom why a politely written letter with a genuine concern like that would be closed or removed. I guess the blanket rule of "no discussing moderation" most forums have was abused for that.
Anyway. I wouldn't want to invest my time on a subjective board like that. Most official forums of mmorpgs are more open to critical but constructive feedback compared to that bloated fansite.
Better to stay at mmorpg.com where constructive crtisism and varying opinions are allowed.
Thing is, almost every single forum has a rule that if you wish to discuss moderation in any form you have to take it in private. This kind of thing isn't a reality show so no wonder they didn't like it.
Discussing moderation on any fansite or forum can be taken out of context against the mods of that particular fansite or forum. Keep in mind that communication may be interpreted in different ways when it's being typed out and read by someone. It's never like a face to face conversation because you can not hear the tone of voice, nor the facial expression when you are reading text. In the end it may also be taken as an attack against the job they think they are doing well.
"Hi there. I've been a part of this site for about a year now
OP, you have been here about a year? Check your join date next to your name (3/31/11). Try about 6 months. Sorry, but now you just lost credibility. I cant prove it, but I could have sworn I saw this same posting on this site months back.
"Hi there. I've been a part of this site for about a year now
OP, you have been here about a year? Check your join date next to your name (3/31/11). Try about 6 months. Sorry, but now you just lost credibility. I cant prove it, but I could have sworn I saw this same posting on this site months back.
"Hi there. I've been a part of this site for about a year now
OP, you have been here about a year? Check your join date next to your name (3/31/11). Try about 6 months. Sorry, but now you just lost credibility. I cant prove it, but I could have sworn I saw this same posting on this site months back.
He was referring to Guild Wars 2 Guru. The OP is a copy of a post he made there.
Ah. Then my apoligies OP.
However that post or one very similar has been floating around for some time. I think someone has something agianst the mods of that site and keeps bringing it up.
"Hi there. I've been a part of this site for about a year now
OP, you have been here about a year? Check your join date next to your name (3/31/11). Try about 6 months. Sorry, but now you just lost credibility. I cant prove it, but I could have sworn I saw this same posting on this site months back.
He was referring to Guild Wars 2 Guru. The OP is a copy of a post he made there.
Ah. Then my apoligies OP.
However that post or one very similar has been floating around for some time. I think someone has something agianst the mods of that site and keeps bringing it up.
There have been a number of threads regarding the moderation antics of the GW2Guru staff mainly because many find their actions to be a bit over zealous.
Thing is, almost every single forum has a rule that if you wish to discuss moderation in any form you have to take it in private. This kind of thing isn't a reality show so no wonder they didn't like it.
There's a good reason for that rule, but it has nothing to do with the OP. Moderation is the process of settling disputes between individuals whose opinions seem so at odds that they are incapable of being civil. If a participant in a dispute has a problem with the way moderation is being handled, yes, that must be dealt with in a side channel, or the moderation is compromised.
The OP is talking about Editing, even though Guru is hiding it behind the Moderation tag. The people with their fingers over the Delete Post button are making editorial decisions based on some set of criteria that has nothing to do with conflict between posters. So privacy of moderation has no bearing, and unless the site is trying to curb its membership, user feedback might be important to them.
But it might not be. Attitudes like the ones expressed by the site's editors are seldom generated below the highest level of authority.
Charr: Outta my way. Human: What's your problem? Charr: Your thin skin.
Hmmmmm...well I don't doubt that the GW2Guru mods have done some over-zealous moderation from time to time, but I fail to see this "censorship conspiracy" theory on GW2Guru. Maybe I'm just missing something, but could someone give an example of a post that was "unjustly" censored by these mods?
Heck, one of the top threads on GW2Guru for like months now is "What do you NOT like about GW2?" where people sound off about their dislikes. It's a thread specifically FOR negative feedback. If GW2Guru's mod "gestapo" was censoring anything negative about GW2, then how did this thread exist for so long?
Yes, indeed. Everyone who has an issue with the way communication on the board is curtailed, please raise your hand. O wait... hmmm.... the people with control of the communication seem to have a kind of power in this situation people at the Pentagon like to refer to as 'asymmetrical'.
Charr: Outta my way. Human: What's your problem? Charr: Your thin skin.
Hmmmmm...well I don't doubt that the GW2Guru mods have done some over-zealous moderation from time to time, but I fail to see this "censorship conspiracy" theory on GW2Guru. Maybe I'm just missing something, but could someone give an example of a post that was "unjustly" censored by these mods?
Heck, one of the top threads on GW2Guru for like months now is "What do you NOT like about GW2?" where people sound off about their dislikes. It's a thread specifically FOR negative feedback. If GW2Guru's mod "gestapo" was censoring anything negative about GW2, then how did this thread exist for so long?
I've never said that they are censoring anything critical of GW2, but they do use their moderator status unprofessionally when they disagree about something.
The incident that finally sealed it for me was when a mod chimed in on a conversation, voiced his differing opinion, insulted the OP for even expressing his in the first place, then locked the thread. Locking the thread was definitely unwarranted because the discussion was mostly civil, but weighing in with his own opinion before permanently denying anyone their chance to refute him was the height of unprofessional, not to mention, completely irresponsible.
Beyond that, I did see one of my own threads just disappear when a moderator decided it wasn't worthy of being open. I disagree that it was any less valid than so many other discussions in the Off-Topic forum and it absolutely did not breach any of the ToS stipulations. Even so, I wouldn't have minded all that much if I'd been given some kind of notice that it was being deleted. Instead, it just disappeared into the ether, making me wonder for a short time if I'd forgotten to hit the Post button when I finished writing it. At least here, when one of my posts get deleted, I pretty much have it coming and I'm always notified and given a reason so that, if I chose to, I could protest. By the way, I never have.
The other problem is that the so-called 'moderators' are guilty of becoming personally involved with discussions. As far as I'm concerned, if they want to join the fray, they shouldn't have the powers of a referree. When they are willing to become part of the discussion, they are no longer able to be seen as impartial and unbiased, which is pretty much a prerequisite for any moderator. That's the problem with letting the patients (read: fans) run the asylum.
I used to think that fansites only would be fine for GW2's online presence, but I no longer think that. It's just way too open for abuse.
Funny thing: I dropped by Guru today and the first thread I read has four mod edits in it. Four. By two different mods. I know the names, so they're familiar to me. So, what did they edit? I have no idea, they were silent edits, and they didn't even have the balls to come clean with what they were moderating.
That's a lot of my problem with GW2... right there. See, on a lot of my favourite forums, if someone does something wrong, the moderator will curteously do something like: This section of your post violated [this particular rule], if you would like to discuss this further, please PM me. -- [Mod name.]
I like that approach.
I also like it when you can post constructive criticism about a site and its moderation, you can be as polite and nice as possible but they won't come forward and discuss it with you. They could even have a forum section for that to move threads to. They're cowards, they'll just delete it.
I wouldn't care, but GW2 reps hang out there. This means that GW2 Guru is essentially the 'official' forum.
With all this nasty, snide, sneaky, cowardly moderation going on, which makes them look a bit like megalomaniacs, it's going to be a PR disaster when GW2 goes live. Especially if news sites start talking about it (which they may, just for the amusement value). All you need is a few before-and-after screenshots to show just what they get up to, there. And you could bet that there are a number of particular game sites out there that would run a story like that.
I don't know, this just seems like ArenaNet holding up a "Please kick me in the balls!" sign.
But what can I do? Nothing. I'll just sit back and watch what happens.
Funny thing: I dropped by Guru today and the first thread I read has four mod edits in it. Four. By two different mods. I know the names, so they're familiar to me. So, what did they edit? I have no idea, they were silent edits, and they didn't even have the balls to come clean with what they were moderating.
That's a lot of my problem with GW2... right there. See, on a lot of my favourite forums, if someone does something wrong, the moderator will curteously do something like: This section of your post violated [this particular rule], if you would like to discuss this further, please PM me. -- [Mod name.]
I like that approach.
I also like it when you can post constructive criticism about a site and its moderation, you can be as polite and nice as possible but they won't come forward and discuss it with you. They could even have a forum section for that to move threads to. They're cowards, they'll just delete it.
I wouldn't care, but GW2 reps hang out there. This means that GW2 Guru is essentially the 'official' forum.
With all this nasty, snide, sneaky, cowardly moderation going on, which makes them look a bit like megalomaniacs, it's going to be a PR disaster when GW2 goes live. Especially if news sites start talking about it (which they may, just for the amusement value). All you need is a few before-and-after screenshots to show just what they get up to, there. And you could bet that there are a number of particular game sites out there that would run a story like that.
I don't know, this just seems like ArenaNet holding up a "Please kick me in the balls!" sign.
But what can I do? Nothing. I'll just sit back and watch what happens.
Just FYI, I spoke with the ANet folks at PAX Prime, and was told that there would be official GW2 forums closer to launch.
Originally posted by sidhaethe Just FYI, I spoke with the ANet folks at PAX Prime, and was told that there would be official GW2 forums closer to launch.
This is extremely good news. My biggest problem with GW2G is that it's the de facto official forum. I really hope to hear more about this in the future. I hope it's not only for beta or tech support or something.
With a few exceptions that have a very large outcry (potions for example), they almost always lock negative threads.
For example, someone pointed out that in PvE, you could weaken an enemy but not kill it, then fight more enemies and only finish one once they go down, allowing then to last longer. He also pointed out that if an enemy poisons you and you are close to death, you should not kill then enemy until either the poison expires or you go down. I noticed these things, too, and I consider them to be serious problems.
Several people (fanboys) said that this would only help "bad" players, and that they (the "good" players) wouldn't ever need to resort to those tactics, disregarding players' ability to use bizarre techniques to gain minor advantages.
After about five or so posts, the thread was locked by a mod who merely said that this could be discussed after the game was released. A discussion had already started, and although I'm sure ANet has considered most of these things, they is still merit in the thread's existence.
Countless threads are locked because they're marginally similar to 100-page threads or because "there isn't enough to discuss." I've also seen mods tell the OP to use the search function and provide links to threads that have been dead for over a year. The link even has the search terms highlighted. Certain mods check each thread and search just to see if there has ever been a similar thread created, regardless of whether or not the old discussion is still relevant. Hell, on here, threads get locked when they're necroed. On GW2Guru, your thread gets locked if it isn't necroed.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Just FYI, I spoke with the ANet folks at PAX Prime, and was told that there would be official GW2 forums closer to launch.
Apparently I am the opposite of everyone else that plays MMOs, because this news just fills me with dread. I really hope that the forums they make are only tech support for GW2; I do not want an official forum! The only thing official forums accomplish is they give the loudest babies that like to cry about everything a single spot to hang out and influence the developers. I can see it now: oh my god this profession is too powerful see it has a 32 pages the developers need to nerf it, who cares that only ten percent of the game ever come to the forums, we want you to meet our needs so nerf the profession. Oh god I really do not like this part of the game you need to change it to make us vocal few happy now!
I honestly would rather stick a fork in my eye then have someone step on it and ram it into my brain then deal with the vocal minority that hangs out on official forums. I can see GW2 forums becoming another WoW forum in months and then shortly after that the game degenerating into crap to make those few happy while the rest of us just linger in the winds because we do not use those forums. My opinion, I do not mean to insult anyone that actually enjoys being on official forums for games, is that the people that sit on official forums and make 99% of the threads there are the cesspit of humanity and I personally do not want them in one place so they can influence the developers of any game.
So please ANet just make a support forum or moderate the heck out of it if you make an official forum. Or my personal choice would be to make it and then just ignore it and just pay some collage intern to comment on it and never ever in a million years look at anything those people type ever! Honestly I would rather ANet listen to the people on MMORPG, even with the GW2 bashing, to help make their game then an official forum!
I didn't read the original post, and don't really intend to. I see this sort of thread and all I can think is "I complained over there, and they didn't listen, so now I'm going to complain here about them" All it reminds me of is a tattletale child.
I'm probably bias, and shouldn't have even bothered to post, but I did.
just my two cents
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Hmmmmm...well I don't doubt that the GW2Guru mods have done some over-zealous moderation from time to time, but I fail to see this "censorship conspiracy" theory on GW2Guru. Maybe I'm just missing something, but could someone give an example of a post that was "unjustly" censored by these mods?
Heck, one of the top threads on GW2Guru for like months now is "What do you NOT like about GW2?" where people sound off about their dislikes. It's a thread specifically FOR negative feedback. If GW2Guru's mod "gestapo" was censoring anything negative about GW2, then how did this thread exist for so long?
Heh its hard to point out example threads/posts on a forum when they are deleted into the memory hole by overzealous mods.
As for the "what do you not like about GW2" thread there, think of it as sort of a digital ghetto. Fanboy forums often provide a place like that where opposing opinions can be safely corraled. It lets them show that are open minded and allows those opinions to be easily ignored. So while every other thread there has negative views deleted, people can point to that thread and say see, they allow dissent. Sort of like designated protest areas in the real world lol.
They just bury anything that doesn't appeal to them, personally. They've done that every time I've visited there. I've seen so many posts deleted/edited that at this point I've just given up. They clearly get away with it, people clearly support them, so what can I do? It's kind of like how people bitch about DRM, but yet they allow it in Diablo III just because it's Blizzard. If we were talking about anywhere else on the web, we'd probably not have the amount of apologists here that we do. But of course, we have GW2 Guru apologists present, it shouldn't be a surprise.
Just because it's Guru that makes it okay. And it'll make it okay when ArenaNet confirm that GW2 Guru is their primary source fo fan information when GW2 goes live. And that's going to be a problem, since constructive criticism gets deleted. How the hell are ArenaNet supposed to gauge fan reactions if they use a forum like GW2 Guru? All sorts of responses, positive and negative, need to be allowed. But GW2 Guru isn't into that whole fairness thing.
Just because it's Guru doesn't make it okay in my book. It's a fan run forum, sure, but I've been involved in forums in the past, and one thing I've learned to value is objectivity. No matter how much of a curmudgeon I am, no matter how much I dislike someone, no matter how much I may disagree with an opinion... I won't edit unless something directly contradicts the rules. I would also note why I had edited a post if I did, leave my name there, and then talk to the user over PM. I also keep a copy of any post before I edit it in case it's a misunderstanding and needs to be restored, and if I do screw up then I'm willing to make a public apology for doing so.
By my own standards of moderation, I find GW2 Guru wanting and lacking.
They're very subjective moderators. They delete stuff they don't like, not things which contradict the rules, and they don't have the balls to tell you when they're editing or deleting, they'll never apologise if they're wrong (and they have been), and they'll try to brush any piece of bloody GW2 Guru controversy under the rug. Apologism aside, the opening post of this thread is actually a fair one, but GW2 Guru is so incredibly 1984 about their moderation that they just delete that stuff. Would it kill them to actually have their moderators talk with people about these things, even in good faith, even if only to bolster the confidence of the posters there? This silent deleting just erodes any faith one could have in them.
They could moderate however they want, really. I wouldn't care less. But ArenaNet representatives hang out there, and because of that they've become the 'premiere' Guild Wars 2 online community, they're almost official, and they need to start living up to that. They need to grow the hell up, cut out this subjective moderation, and actually start following their own rules and running a respectable site. And failing that, ArenaNet really need to pick another forum to hang out at, which would also solve this problem.
---
EDIT: Another thing they do is using their moderation positions to put pressure on people.
When I was moderating I actually used a different account for posting than I did for moderating, so that if someone was arguing me (as they have every bloody right to!), then they wouldn't have to feel afraid. I'd do my moderation under another name, and as I said, I'd keep it objective. I may not be the most pleasant person, but in my time I have been a damn good moderator. That's why this rubs me the wrong way so much.
I have a good grasp on fairness and ethics. They don't.
The reason for this edit is that one of the things I've seen them pulling is arguing with people under their moderator account, and politely suggesting to people that they 'stop arguing back,' whilst still providing their own views. Almost as if to say 'if you keep arguing with me, you'll be deleted, or potentially banned.' And that's happened! I've seen someone get banned after arguing with a moderator over ideas for Guild Wars 2, and they didn't provide a reason at all! I was watching the thread where this person was talking, and their lasts posts right before being banned were in interaction with a moderator.
I won't name names, but it was a moderator on the lore section, and I was watching this as it was going on. That's just not cricket. I mean, really, that's not on. That's just not what you do with moderator powers. But it is what they do, and it's why I dislike them so much.
Comments
I can't blame the OP for posting this on this site. This isn't the first time I've heard these kinds of concerns, and it's obvious that not enough is being done to resolve them. At least the GW2GURU people can't delete this thread so quickly or easily.
For those of you who accuse the OP of flaming: how would anything we care about improve if we don't draw attention to weaknesses or flaws? Flaming is the act of complaining with no redemptive value, which is not the case with the OP.
Meh. You're simply posting on a board that is run by straight up fanboys. What sort of response do you expect when you criticize their beloved game? If you feel stifled, simply stop posting there and move on. Posting your complaints here won't do much.
I certainly hope they do have their own official boards at launch.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
~Lord George Gordon Byron
lol, actually at least half of the mods aren't very enthusiastic about the game. one thing i'll say, they're surprisingly objective(moreso than some posters). they may get into petty shit about opinions and such, but there's almost no moderation stemming from criticizing the game itslef. hell, they let dinhosaur(robert dinh on this site) run free for ages. Fernling360 is still active, and he's simply a flat out troll. literally all trolling of every single piece of info that has come out since he started posting there.
it makes it all the more baffling that they fucking impose there will so damn much, but don't clean up the biggest riff raff.
You are absolutely right. No part of your post could be considered trolling (no irony here, just the plain truth)
I don't really have a problem with most of the mods on Guru - sure, they're a bit harsh with closing threads sometimes, but I guess I'd rather have that than the trollfest that goes on in most other forums. The few times that my posts have been moderated over there have been warranted, more or less.
I do take issue, though, with the attitude of one particular mod who insists on being a pr*ck about moderating. This dude often makes snide comments after closing a thread and calls the posters names, which is completely unprofessional and uncalled for, in my opinion. If that guy lost his privileges or at least toned down the attitude and d*ckish behaviour somewhat, I'd have pretty much no problem with Guru moderation whatsoever.
ebonized, it's clear from your posts that you have no idea how forums work from
Just because you say something you do isn't trolling it doesn't mean you're right. Read the rules ten times and don't blindly press "Agree" button next time.
Can't fathom why a politely written letter with a genuine concern like that would be closed or removed. I guess the blanket rule of "no discussing moderation" most forums have was abused for that.
Anyway. I wouldn't want to invest my time on a subjective board like that. Most official forums of mmorpgs are more open to critical but constructive feedback compared to that bloated fansite.
Better to stay at mmorpg.com where constructive crtisism and varying opinions are allowed.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Thing is, almost every single forum has a rule that if you wish to discuss moderation in any form you have to take it in private. This kind of thing isn't a reality show so no wonder they didn't like it.
Discussing moderation on any fansite or forum can be taken out of context against the mods of that particular fansite or forum. Keep in mind that communication may be interpreted in different ways when it's being typed out and read by someone. It's never like a face to face conversation because you can not hear the tone of voice, nor the facial expression when you are reading text. In the end it may also be taken as an attack against the job they think they are doing well.
Food for thought.
OP, you have been here about a year? Check your join date next to your name (3/31/11). Try about 6 months. Sorry, but now you just lost credibility. I cant prove it, but I could have sworn I saw this same posting on this site months back.
ebonized
Apprentice Member
Joined: 3/31/11
Posts: 8
He was referring to Guild Wars 2 Guru. The OP is a copy of a post he made there.
Ah. Then my apoligies OP.
However that post or one very similar has been floating around for some time. I think someone has something agianst the mods of that site and keeps bringing it up.
There have been a number of threads regarding the moderation antics of the GW2Guru staff mainly because many find their actions to be a bit over zealous.
There's a good reason for that rule, but it has nothing to do with the OP. Moderation is the process of settling disputes between individuals whose opinions seem so at odds that they are incapable of being civil. If a participant in a dispute has a problem with the way moderation is being handled, yes, that must be dealt with in a side channel, or the moderation is compromised.
The OP is talking about Editing, even though Guru is hiding it behind the Moderation tag. The people with their fingers over the Delete Post button are making editorial decisions based on some set of criteria that has nothing to do with conflict between posters. So privacy of moderation has no bearing, and unless the site is trying to curb its membership, user feedback might be important to them.
But it might not be. Attitudes like the ones expressed by the site's editors are seldom generated below the highest level of authority.
Charr: Outta my way.
Human: What's your problem?
Charr: Your thin skin.
Hmmmmm...well I don't doubt that the GW2Guru mods have done some over-zealous moderation from time to time, but I fail to see this "censorship conspiracy" theory on GW2Guru. Maybe I'm just missing something, but could someone give an example of a post that was "unjustly" censored by these mods?
Heck, one of the top threads on GW2Guru for like months now is "What do you NOT like about GW2?" where people sound off about their dislikes. It's a thread specifically FOR negative feedback. If GW2Guru's mod "gestapo" was censoring anything negative about GW2, then how did this thread exist for so long?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Yes, indeed. Everyone who has an issue with the way communication on the board is curtailed, please raise your hand. O wait... hmmm.... the people with control of the communication seem to have a kind of power in this situation people at the Pentagon like to refer to as 'asymmetrical'.
Charr: Outta my way.
Human: What's your problem?
Charr: Your thin skin.
I've never said that they are censoring anything critical of GW2, but they do use their moderator status unprofessionally when they disagree about something.
The incident that finally sealed it for me was when a mod chimed in on a conversation, voiced his differing opinion, insulted the OP for even expressing his in the first place, then locked the thread. Locking the thread was definitely unwarranted because the discussion was mostly civil, but weighing in with his own opinion before permanently denying anyone their chance to refute him was the height of unprofessional, not to mention, completely irresponsible.
Beyond that, I did see one of my own threads just disappear when a moderator decided it wasn't worthy of being open. I disagree that it was any less valid than so many other discussions in the Off-Topic forum and it absolutely did not breach any of the ToS stipulations. Even so, I wouldn't have minded all that much if I'd been given some kind of notice that it was being deleted. Instead, it just disappeared into the ether, making me wonder for a short time if I'd forgotten to hit the Post button when I finished writing it. At least here, when one of my posts get deleted, I pretty much have it coming and I'm always notified and given a reason so that, if I chose to, I could protest. By the way, I never have.
The other problem is that the so-called 'moderators' are guilty of becoming personally involved with discussions. As far as I'm concerned, if they want to join the fray, they shouldn't have the powers of a referree. When they are willing to become part of the discussion, they are no longer able to be seen as impartial and unbiased, which is pretty much a prerequisite for any moderator. That's the problem with letting the patients (read: fans) run the asylum.
I used to think that fansites only would be fine for GW2's online presence, but I no longer think that. It's just way too open for abuse.
Funny thing: I dropped by Guru today and the first thread I read has four mod edits in it. Four. By two different mods. I know the names, so they're familiar to me. So, what did they edit? I have no idea, they were silent edits, and they didn't even have the balls to come clean with what they were moderating.
That's a lot of my problem with GW2... right there. See, on a lot of my favourite forums, if someone does something wrong, the moderator will curteously do something like: This section of your post violated [this particular rule], if you would like to discuss this further, please PM me. -- [Mod name.]
I like that approach.
I also like it when you can post constructive criticism about a site and its moderation, you can be as polite and nice as possible but they won't come forward and discuss it with you. They could even have a forum section for that to move threads to. They're cowards, they'll just delete it.
I wouldn't care, but GW2 reps hang out there. This means that GW2 Guru is essentially the 'official' forum.
With all this nasty, snide, sneaky, cowardly moderation going on, which makes them look a bit like megalomaniacs, it's going to be a PR disaster when GW2 goes live. Especially if news sites start talking about it (which they may, just for the amusement value). All you need is a few before-and-after screenshots to show just what they get up to, there. And you could bet that there are a number of particular game sites out there that would run a story like that.
I don't know, this just seems like ArenaNet holding up a "Please kick me in the balls!" sign.
But what can I do? Nothing. I'll just sit back and watch what happens.
Just FYI, I spoke with the ANet folks at PAX Prime, and was told that there would be official GW2 forums closer to launch.
This is extremely good news. My biggest problem with GW2G is that it's the de facto official forum. I really hope to hear more about this in the future. I hope it's not only for beta or tech support or something.
With a few exceptions that have a very large outcry (potions for example), they almost always lock negative threads.
For example, someone pointed out that in PvE, you could weaken an enemy but not kill it, then fight more enemies and only finish one once they go down, allowing then to last longer. He also pointed out that if an enemy poisons you and you are close to death, you should not kill then enemy until either the poison expires or you go down. I noticed these things, too, and I consider them to be serious problems.
Several people (fanboys) said that this would only help "bad" players, and that they (the "good" players) wouldn't ever need to resort to those tactics, disregarding players' ability to use bizarre techniques to gain minor advantages.
After about five or so posts, the thread was locked by a mod who merely said that this could be discussed after the game was released. A discussion had already started, and although I'm sure ANet has considered most of these things, they is still merit in the thread's existence.
Countless threads are locked because they're marginally similar to 100-page threads or because "there isn't enough to discuss." I've also seen mods tell the OP to use the search function and provide links to threads that have been dead for over a year. The link even has the search terms highlighted. Certain mods check each thread and search just to see if there has ever been a similar thread created, regardless of whether or not the old discussion is still relevant. Hell, on here, threads get locked when they're necroed. On GW2Guru, your thread gets locked if it isn't necroed.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Apparently I am the opposite of everyone else that plays MMOs, because this news just fills me with dread. I really hope that the forums they make are only tech support for GW2; I do not want an official forum! The only thing official forums accomplish is they give the loudest babies that like to cry about everything a single spot to hang out and influence the developers. I can see it now: oh my god this profession is too powerful see it has a 32 pages the developers need to nerf it, who cares that only ten percent of the game ever come to the forums, we want you to meet our needs so nerf the profession. Oh god I really do not like this part of the game you need to change it to make us vocal few happy now!
I honestly would rather stick a fork in my eye then have someone step on it and ram it into my brain then deal with the vocal minority that hangs out on official forums. I can see GW2 forums becoming another WoW forum in months and then shortly after that the game degenerating into crap to make those few happy while the rest of us just linger in the winds because we do not use those forums. My opinion, I do not mean to insult anyone that actually enjoys being on official forums for games, is that the people that sit on official forums and make 99% of the threads there are the cesspit of humanity and I personally do not want them in one place so they can influence the developers of any game.
So please ANet just make a support forum or moderate the heck out of it if you make an official forum. Or my personal choice would be to make it and then just ignore it and just pay some collage intern to comment on it and never ever in a million years look at anything those people type ever! Honestly I would rather ANet listen to the people on MMORPG, even with the GW2 bashing, to help make their game then an official forum!
I didn't read the original post, and don't really intend to. I see this sort of thread and all I can think is "I complained over there, and they didn't listen, so now I'm going to complain here about them" All it reminds me of is a tattletale child.
I'm probably bias, and shouldn't have even bothered to post, but I did.
just my two cents
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Heh its hard to point out example threads/posts on a forum when they are deleted into the memory hole by overzealous mods.
As for the "what do you not like about GW2" thread there, think of it as sort of a digital ghetto. Fanboy forums often provide a place like that where opposing opinions can be safely corraled. It lets them show that are open minded and allows those opinions to be easily ignored. So while every other thread there has negative views deleted, people can point to that thread and say see, they allow dissent. Sort of like designated protest areas in the real world lol.
Yep, that's exactly right, Aluvius.
They just bury anything that doesn't appeal to them, personally. They've done that every time I've visited there. I've seen so many posts deleted/edited that at this point I've just given up. They clearly get away with it, people clearly support them, so what can I do? It's kind of like how people bitch about DRM, but yet they allow it in Diablo III just because it's Blizzard. If we were talking about anywhere else on the web, we'd probably not have the amount of apologists here that we do. But of course, we have GW2 Guru apologists present, it shouldn't be a surprise.
Just because it's Guru that makes it okay. And it'll make it okay when ArenaNet confirm that GW2 Guru is their primary source fo fan information when GW2 goes live. And that's going to be a problem, since constructive criticism gets deleted. How the hell are ArenaNet supposed to gauge fan reactions if they use a forum like GW2 Guru? All sorts of responses, positive and negative, need to be allowed. But GW2 Guru isn't into that whole fairness thing.
Just because it's Guru doesn't make it okay in my book. It's a fan run forum, sure, but I've been involved in forums in the past, and one thing I've learned to value is objectivity. No matter how much of a curmudgeon I am, no matter how much I dislike someone, no matter how much I may disagree with an opinion... I won't edit unless something directly contradicts the rules. I would also note why I had edited a post if I did, leave my name there, and then talk to the user over PM. I also keep a copy of any post before I edit it in case it's a misunderstanding and needs to be restored, and if I do screw up then I'm willing to make a public apology for doing so.
By my own standards of moderation, I find GW2 Guru wanting and lacking.
They're very subjective moderators. They delete stuff they don't like, not things which contradict the rules, and they don't have the balls to tell you when they're editing or deleting, they'll never apologise if they're wrong (and they have been), and they'll try to brush any piece of bloody GW2 Guru controversy under the rug. Apologism aside, the opening post of this thread is actually a fair one, but GW2 Guru is so incredibly 1984 about their moderation that they just delete that stuff. Would it kill them to actually have their moderators talk with people about these things, even in good faith, even if only to bolster the confidence of the posters there? This silent deleting just erodes any faith one could have in them.
They could moderate however they want, really. I wouldn't care less. But ArenaNet representatives hang out there, and because of that they've become the 'premiere' Guild Wars 2 online community, they're almost official, and they need to start living up to that. They need to grow the hell up, cut out this subjective moderation, and actually start following their own rules and running a respectable site. And failing that, ArenaNet really need to pick another forum to hang out at, which would also solve this problem.
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EDIT: Another thing they do is using their moderation positions to put pressure on people.
When I was moderating I actually used a different account for posting than I did for moderating, so that if someone was arguing me (as they have every bloody right to!), then they wouldn't have to feel afraid. I'd do my moderation under another name, and as I said, I'd keep it objective. I may not be the most pleasant person, but in my time I have been a damn good moderator. That's why this rubs me the wrong way so much.
I have a good grasp on fairness and ethics. They don't.
The reason for this edit is that one of the things I've seen them pulling is arguing with people under their moderator account, and politely suggesting to people that they 'stop arguing back,' whilst still providing their own views. Almost as if to say 'if you keep arguing with me, you'll be deleted, or potentially banned.' And that's happened! I've seen someone get banned after arguing with a moderator over ideas for Guild Wars 2, and they didn't provide a reason at all! I was watching the thread where this person was talking, and their lasts posts right before being banned were in interaction with a moderator.
I won't name names, but it was a moderator on the lore section, and I was watching this as it was going on. That's just not cricket.
I mean, really, that's not on. That's just not what you do with moderator powers. But it is what they do, and it's why I dislike them so much.