Well, I'm all for opening the endgame content up a bit for non-raiders, but it would be a terrible idea to have 5 man instance versions of the raid. The endboss of any expansion is supposed to have an epic feel to it. Killing it isn't supposed to be easy (at least relatively speaking). Allowing him to be killed by a 5 man group just to allow non-raiders to experience the event would guarantee that the first kill of that boss will always be the 5 man version kill. I just don't like the idea of a raid group putting in the time to kill him only to have a soloer/non-raider say, "Oh yeah, we already did that. " That first kill needs to be epic in scope, not some 5 man version.
What you just described is no different than the 10-man version being defeated before the 25-man version, which is generally required the way its setup. Besides that though, all these 10-25 man raids are defeated on the PTRs long before its released to everyone anyway, so whats so epic about defeating it on any mode afterward if its already been done!?
A solo or five man version being defeated quickly shouldn't even make the raider flinch. If I were a raider I'd be like, "so what, now lets see them do it in 10 or 25 man mode like our guild is doing!"
Do you recall the christmas tree event in FFXI about 5-6 years ago, that had a tree warping around the starter zones that took the whole of each server working together over a month to take down? Stuff like that was excellent and I don't see why devs won't do stuff similar anymore. Or the opening of AQ in WoW that took the entire server several months to gather the masses of resources required. There is so much that could be done similar to these in all MMOs, and a participations' reward could be added to them so no matter when you showed up, you'd still get at least some credit, like in Rift.
Unfortunately I didn't experience those events.
I was more used to Antharas raids that would require many clans to come together, or even large sieges where you would have to get many groups together in order to be successful.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
so now the next expansion will hit in a years time, it will include another set of dungeons that one will have to spend months farming for points, 5 new factions to spend months doing dailies to farm rep, a single raid temporary faction, crappy crafting items that won't help with anything not even pve, no random group encounters out in the wilderness, hardly any story quests to speak of, and the cycle continues.
as it was said above "All sounds hugely interesting but sadly I'm just enjoying farming volatile water/air and doing heroics for orbs all night long to have the time for it Oo"
I just can't get excited about anything to do with WoW anymore . The taking down of Deathwing will proberbly be relativly easy like the rest of the game . I would love to see Blizzard buck the trend and actually make the game challenging again . I can't wait for the day when another game comes along and decimates the subs so much that Blizzard might actually in the face of stiff competition will have a rethink and make it playable once more . I would still love to play this game but as it was not as it is . The heart and souls gone out of it .
Wait....Deathwing battle wasn't in at cata launch?
Disclaimer: This is not a troll post and is not here to promote any negative energy. Although this may be a criticism, it is not meant to offend anyone. If a moderator feels the post is inappropriate, please remove it immediately before it is subject to consideration for a warning. Thank you.
Wait....Deathwing battle wasn't in at cata launch?
Nope, and neither was the Lich King for WotLK, or Illidan from BC, or C'Thun from Vanilla {which wasn't really a major boss} erm, it was actually Kel'thuzad I think from Naxxramas.
After raiding for so many years I'm done. Pizza is good when you haven't had it for a while but if you eat it every day for every meal, you get tired of it.
Blizzard has always been good at being innovative... I wish they had some new ideas now to go along with coughing up new raids for the people that still enjoy it. I am now levelling the last of my 10 toons on my server just to have everyone at 85 before SWTOR. Damn you Bioware for locking me back into the grind for another three months. I hate you.
I'm personally excited that not only will there be a raid finder, but that to make up for the fact that you'll be stuck in with 24 other strangers, raid-finder raids will actually be easier than their regular and heroic counterparts.
I admit that while I've been playing WoW on and off ever since 2005, I never once set foot in Icecrown Citadel because I just didn't want to deal with all the hassle of joining a top-end raiding guild and putting in heavy hours each week. Even though I'm a very big fan of all the lore surrounding WoW and its characters, turning WoW into what amounts to basically a second job (which is what hardcore raiding basically is) wasn't worth the story elements associated with the raid. And even late into the expansion pugging wasn't really an option since pugs never made it past the first or second wing of the raid and I'm not really that obsessed with getting new gear so even that incentive couldn't hook me.
With the raid-finder however, most of the hassle is gone especially since you can get some pretty nifty gear without even doing raids at all thanks to dailies, rep gear, and heroic 5-mans. I'm looking forward to actually experiencing for myself taking Deathwing down and if they ever introduce older raids into the system I might just go back and take Arthas down too.
They need to get rid of the raids, and make world events....Rift has a better concept, I just wish they got rid of all the raids, and just had massive world-wide invasions that would be technically a "Raid" that everyone can participate in for super pewpewlazerz and what not. They kind of already do, with each patch update, but it should be like. "Oh it's that time of the month, the Greenspawn is going to go berserk soon." Then bam! Greenspawn and dragons and massive beings (probably also green hehe) spawn all over the place, and raid towns, destroy everything and everyone. However, once the people of telara gather in force, they can push back the invasion....EPIC (Trion if you read this, I could use a second job )
I just can't get excited about anything to do with WoW anymore . The taking down of Deathwing will proberbly be relativly easy like the rest of the game . I would love to see Blizzard buck the trend and actually make the game challenging again . I can't wait for the day when another game comes along and decimates the subs so much that Blizzard might actually in the face of stiff competition will have a rethink and make it playable once more . I would still love to play this game but as it was not as it is . The heart and souls gone out of it .
Comments like this I always find funny considering how incorrect they are. So how did Heroic Ragnaros go for you? O wait, you probably don't even play so you have no idea what hard modes are like. There IS challenging content if you want it. And comparing diffilculties between games is pretty near impossible although nothing in Rift or any other game seems to have as much gonig on in their fights compared to WoW.
Raid Finder is great. It's for casuals and most of the playerbase of mmorpgs are casuals. Hardcore gamers always get what they want anyway, they does'nt really demand much, because it's already there for them.
Blizzard should stop with the bullshit and give the players these features for free already. For how long will they continue this scam?
Deathwing is not even close being one of the famoust enemies in Warcraft.
You have guys like Arthas, Sargeras, Kill Jaeden, Ashara aso. way before him. Anyway after reading the headline I thought "wow some guild already downed him".
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
The one thing that always hits me when I read anything about World of Warcraft. At the top it says: Status:Final (rel 11/23/04).
That's almost 7 years as the leader of the pack in the Western market. It just strikes me as incredible.
No wonder every other game tries to be like WoW and only introduces very very minor elements outside the given formula. As a gamer I'm annoyed by that, I would much rather see what happened if another developer decided to "break the formula" so to speak but on the other hand I'm not too surprised that all other games following and all the major titles coming up are very careful not to stray too much from the given formula for success.
In my view we need something really new but I'm expecting more and more that the ones who will shake World of Warcraft will be Blizzard when they release "Titan" and then that will be the game all the others try to emulate.
Folks who come to sites like this and demand more time-intensive MMO experiences have to understand, you aren't the core customer base for these games anymore.
Wax poetic about the good old days... but those days ended when the first generation of hard-core gamers grew up, graduated high school and college and *gasp* started having lives. Their ratio of time vs. money has changed.
Sure, there are those with the time live for one game, but those folks might find more satisfaction playing multiple games at once, or having a life outside their one timesink-style MMO.
Why would WoW shoot itself in the wallet by making the majority of their subscibers feel left out? Heck, an old friend I just bumped into recently told me that once Cata hit he didn't have time to "keep up" with his other raiding friends and unsubbed. Darn that new girlfriend...
So if they make end-game even more casual, who will they lose? Probably not as many as you'd think.
Well none of my 85's could ever enter the new dungeons, too high of requirements, The last thing I want to do is participate in the gear race again so you can be uber enough to participate
Wow was a great game once, but it is now just another old MMO.
The one thing that always hits me when I read anything about World of Warcraft. At the top it says: Status:Final (rel 11/23/04).
That's almost 7 years as the leader of the pack in the Western market. It just strikes me as incredible.
No wonder every other game tries to be like WoW and only introduces very very minor elements outside the given formula. As a gamer I'm annoyed by that, I would much rather see what happened if another developer decided to "break the formula" so to speak but on the other hand I'm not too surprised that all other games following and all the major titles coming up are very careful not to stray too much from the given formula for success.
In my view we need something really new but I'm expecting more and more that the ones who will shake World of Warcraft will be Blizzard when they release "Titan" and then that will be the game all the others try to emulate.
Archage and Guild wars 2 are not following this model and look very much to be exactly what you/we are looknig for. Wow has about a year left until the pop collapses for SWTOR/Archage/Guild Wars 2, 6 months after that it will be niche.
edit I dont think Titan is going to be a mmorg, rumours are a fps.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Remember no event is life changing in most MMOs. After all you can just re-queue and kill that boss that was suppose to be dead last time and kill him over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Seriously... I wait for a MMO to finally offer real changes in the game! GW2 offers a man hope that the endless raid and dungeon grinding will end. That world and towns around me will change and stay changed after a major event / quest ends. WoW Cata did have better storyline quests and events, BUT the endless grind of bosses and people that were dead, but not really still is there. NO life changing events. NO changed world where it is different from your actions. I long for the RPG to be put back into MMO. Right now my hopes lie in GW2.
Blizzard should stop with the bullshit and give the players these features for free already. For how long will they continue this scam?
You mean stop subscriptions? (don't see how that's a scam). They won't change anytime soon, unless the get a huge hit subscribers...like down to a million. However, I see them going f2p in 5-10 years is wow continues its natural decline.
For this raid, I'm interested because it's progression in WoW lore, but really I just don't care about deathwing, I just hope it doesn't result in the other Aspects dying or anything like that. The dungeons interest me a lot more, especially Well of Eternity.
"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people." - Eleanor Roosevelt "Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security." -Norman Vincent Peale
Blizzard should stop with the bullshit and give the players these features for free already. For how long will they continue this scam?
You mean stop subscriptions? (don't see how that's a scam). They won't change anytime soon, unless the get a huge hit subscribers...like down to a million. However, I see them going f2p in 5-10 years is wow continues its natural decline.
Crystal Ball says: WoW Cash Shop goes live before Dec 2013.
No solid evidence, except for Blizzard's displayed tendency to offer you just a little more for money with each passing year, slowly sneaking up on P2W...and the Activision Influence. If Kotick had his way, he'd have cash shopped it already.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
WoW has become a bad WoW clone. With 99% certainty I say the next expansion will be just more (yawn) of the (yawn) same (snores) - utterly lacking any innovation. It's clear the Blizzard A and B teams are working on something other than WoW.
Comments
What you just described is no different than the 10-man version being defeated before the 25-man version, which is generally required the way its setup. Besides that though, all these 10-25 man raids are defeated on the PTRs long before its released to everyone anyway, so whats so epic about defeating it on any mode afterward if its already been done!?
A solo or five man version being defeated quickly shouldn't even make the raider flinch. If I were a raider I'd be like, "so what, now lets see them do it in 10 or 25 man mode like our guild is doing!"
Unfortunately I didn't experience those events.
I was more used to Antharas raids that would require many clans to come together, or even large sieges where you would have to get many groups together in order to be successful.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
so now the next expansion will hit in a years time, it will include another set of dungeons that one will have to spend months farming for points, 5 new factions to spend months doing dailies to farm rep, a single raid temporary faction, crappy crafting items that won't help with anything not even pve, no random group encounters out in the wilderness, hardly any story quests to speak of, and the cycle continues.
as it was said above "All sounds hugely interesting but sadly I'm just enjoying farming volatile water/air and doing heroics for orbs all night long to have the time for it Oo"
Exactly.
I just can't get excited about anything to do with WoW anymore . The taking down of Deathwing will proberbly be relativly easy like the rest of the game . I would love to see Blizzard buck the trend and actually make the game challenging again . I can't wait for the day when another game comes along and decimates the subs so much that Blizzard might actually in the face of stiff competition will have a rethink and make it playable once more . I would still love to play this game but as it was not as it is . The heart and souls gone out of it .
Wait....Deathwing battle wasn't in at cata launch?
Disclaimer: This is not a troll post and is not here to promote any negative energy. Although this may be a criticism, it is not meant to offend anyone. If a moderator feels the post is inappropriate, please remove it immediately before it is subject to consideration for a warning. Thank you.
Nope, and neither was the Lich King for WotLK, or Illidan from BC, or C'Thun from Vanilla {which wasn't really a major boss} erm, it was actually Kel'thuzad I think from Naxxramas.
Wow ^-^..
No pun intended :P
"Not to mention Telarans get a wardrobe for basically free…"
Telarans can't change weapon appearance though, something I've been requesting for months.
After raiding for so many years I'm done. Pizza is good when you haven't had it for a while but if you eat it every day for every meal, you get tired of it.
Blizzard has always been good at being innovative... I wish they had some new ideas now to go along with coughing up new raids for the people that still enjoy it. I am now levelling the last of my 10 toons on my server just to have everyone at 85 before SWTOR. Damn you Bioware for locking me back into the grind for another three months. I hate you.
No bitchers.
I'm personally excited that not only will there be a raid finder, but that to make up for the fact that you'll be stuck in with 24 other strangers, raid-finder raids will actually be easier than their regular and heroic counterparts.
I admit that while I've been playing WoW on and off ever since 2005, I never once set foot in Icecrown Citadel because I just didn't want to deal with all the hassle of joining a top-end raiding guild and putting in heavy hours each week. Even though I'm a very big fan of all the lore surrounding WoW and its characters, turning WoW into what amounts to basically a second job (which is what hardcore raiding basically is) wasn't worth the story elements associated with the raid. And even late into the expansion pugging wasn't really an option since pugs never made it past the first or second wing of the raid and I'm not really that obsessed with getting new gear so even that incentive couldn't hook me.
With the raid-finder however, most of the hassle is gone especially since you can get some pretty nifty gear without even doing raids at all thanks to dailies, rep gear, and heroic 5-mans. I'm looking forward to actually experiencing for myself taking Deathwing down and if they ever introduce older raids into the system I might just go back and take Arthas down too.
Nothing original about the Transmog- ....Aion had that ever since and I believe does it better also.
Ready for GW2!!!
They need to get rid of the raids, and make world events....Rift has a better concept, I just wish they got rid of all the raids, and just had massive world-wide invasions that would be technically a "Raid" that everyone can participate in for super pewpewlazerz and what not. They kind of already do, with each patch update, but it should be like. "Oh it's that time of the month, the Greenspawn is going to go berserk soon." Then bam! Greenspawn and dragons and massive beings (probably also green hehe) spawn all over the place, and raid towns, destroy everything and everyone. However, once the people of telara gather in force, they can push back the invasion....EPIC (Trion if you read this, I could use a second job
)
Comments like this I always find funny considering how incorrect they are. So how did Heroic Ragnaros go for you? O wait, you probably don't even play so you have no idea what hard modes are like. There IS challenging content if you want it. And comparing diffilculties between games is pretty near impossible although nothing in Rift or any other game seems to have as much gonig on in their fights compared to WoW.
Raid Finder is great. It's for casuals and most of the playerbase of mmorpgs are casuals. Hardcore gamers always get what they want anyway, they does'nt really demand much, because it's already there for them.
Blizzard should stop with the bullshit and give the players these features for free already. For how long will they continue this scam?
Deathwing is not even close being one of the famoust enemies in Warcraft.
You have guys like Arthas, Sargeras, Kill Jaeden, Ashara aso. way before him. Anyway after reading the headline I thought "wow some guild already downed him".
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
The one thing that always hits me when I read anything about World of Warcraft. At the top it says: Status:Final (rel 11/23/04).
That's almost 7 years as the leader of the pack in the Western market. It just strikes me as incredible.
No wonder every other game tries to be like WoW and only introduces very very minor elements outside the given formula. As a gamer I'm annoyed by that, I would much rather see what happened if another developer decided to "break the formula" so to speak but on the other hand I'm not too surprised that all other games following and all the major titles coming up are very careful not to stray too much from the given formula for success.
In my view we need something really new but I'm expecting more and more that the ones who will shake World of Warcraft will be Blizzard when they release "Titan" and then that will be the game all the others try to emulate.
Folks who come to sites like this and demand more time-intensive MMO experiences have to understand, you aren't the core customer base for these games anymore.
Wax poetic about the good old days... but those days ended when the first generation of hard-core gamers grew up, graduated high school and college and *gasp* started having lives. Their ratio of time vs. money has changed.
Sure, there are those with the time live for one game, but those folks might find more satisfaction playing multiple games at once, or having a life outside their one timesink-style MMO.
Why would WoW shoot itself in the wallet by making the majority of their subscibers feel left out? Heck, an old friend I just bumped into recently told me that once Cata hit he didn't have time to "keep up" with his other raiding friends and unsubbed. Darn that new girlfriend...
So if they make end-game even more casual, who will they lose? Probably not as many as you'd think.
Well none of my 85's could ever enter the new dungeons, too high of requirements, The last thing I want to do is participate in the gear race again so you can be uber enough to participate
Wow was a great game once, but it is now just another old MMO.
Archage and Guild wars 2 are not following this model and look very much to be exactly what you/we are looknig for. Wow has about a year left until the pop collapses for SWTOR/Archage/Guild Wars 2, 6 months after that it will be niche.
edit I dont think Titan is going to be a mmorg, rumours are a fps.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Remember no event is life changing in most MMOs. After all you can just re-queue and kill that boss that was suppose to be dead last time and kill him over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Seriously... I wait for a MMO to finally offer real changes in the game! GW2 offers a man hope that the endless raid and dungeon grinding will end. That world and towns around me will change and stay changed after a major event / quest ends. WoW Cata did have better storyline quests and events, BUT the endless grind of bosses and people that were dead, but not really still is there. NO life changing events. NO changed world where it is different from your actions. I long for the RPG to be put back into MMO. Right now my hopes lie in GW2.
You mean stop subscriptions? (don't see how that's a scam). They won't change anytime soon, unless the get a huge hit subscribers...like down to a million. However, I see them going f2p in 5-10 years is wow continues its natural decline.
For this raid, I'm interested because it's progression in WoW lore, but really I just don't care about deathwing, I just hope it doesn't result in the other Aspects dying or anything like that. The dungeons interest me a lot more, especially Well of Eternity.
"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
"Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security." -Norman Vincent Peale
Crystal Ball says: WoW Cash Shop goes live before Dec 2013.
No solid evidence, except for Blizzard's displayed tendency to offer you just a little more for money with each passing year, slowly sneaking up on P2W...and the Activision Influence. If Kotick had his way, he'd have cash shopped it already.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
War:40k terminators. Badass but I think i'm missing your point on this?