Neither , there is always a limit it just may be a lot highr than you thought.....
Awww you worried demand is low bless you.....
If i understand this thread correctly (i could be wrong) these are the two scenarios we are looking at
Copies avialable while supplies last
and
Copies will be available right up to launch
Neither of these statements conflict each other.
I'll explain
This is what we call a whichever comes first scenario
pre-orders will be available right up to launch assuming we still have pre-order copies to sell.
If we run out of copies before the release date then copies will no longer be available.
The available right up to launch is just saying we aren't artifically cutting the time you can order X amount of days before the games release. So you can (assuming supplies last) order 1 day before the game launches and get the pre-order stuff.
These two statements don't say anything about how many pre-orders they have nor do they say anything about the demands for said item. They are just saying that the only time limits for pre-ordering are stock/release day, whichever come s first.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Sixteen pages from one false dichotomy. Not bad at all.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think this is a marketing strategy based on potential failure. This way if instead of 3 million subs they have 3 to 6 hundred thousand subs but only at start up, they can open a few servers and say thats exactly what they expected anyway. Also if the bugs that need ironing out happen to be really bad bugs, then they can contain it and not have massive early game fallout, or if they do have a massive fallout based on bugs they wont worry to much about it since their marketing ploy is to simply say user base is declining because we have refused to open new accounts or servers as of yet. That way they can slow word of mouth negative press, which they have gotten more than enough of already.
Sixteen pages from one false dichotomy. Not bad at all.
You know, I asked in another thread what people would be complaining about, I should have kept my damn mouth shut.
I think this thread is EVE's version of 'You are not killing us fast enough!'
For those who do not know, it is a phrase that gained noteriaty when an alliance went to the forums to say 'you took 3 systems from us but with your superior numbers you should have taken 10!' - hence the phrase.
Which is quite hilarious but w/e.
In 80 days or so, I'll be online rolling a Fem Shep... sorry.. Female Trooper. :P
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Boy does this forum have a huge bunch of "drama queens" on it... You make an issue of something like this???
I'm quite sure that they have a limit to all the pre-orders etc. There is a physical limitation to it. They are planning to make "so and so much copies" for the launch, so they can sell only "server maximum load minus launch copies" of the game as pre-order. But if the product is moving, they can always decide to add more servers to get more money out of a hot product.
Everything is limited. It's not like their servers have unlimited bandwidth on them and performance power...
Boy does this forum have a huge bunch of "drama queens" on it... You make an issue of something like this???
I'm quite sure that they have a limit to all the pre-orders etc. There is a physical limitation to it. They are planning to make "so and so much copies" for the launch, so they can sell only "server maximum load minus launch copies" of the game as pre-order. But if the product is moving, they can always decide to add more servers to get more money out of a hot product.
Everything is limited. It's not like their servers have unlimited bandwidth on them and performance power...
There is no such thing as "unlimited"... POWER!!!!
Yes it's a lie, clealry noone wanted to preorder the game at all but then the marketing monkey came up with the brilliant idea of putting the word, 'limited', on the preorder page and everyone flocked there. The marketing monkey was awarded with an extra bananna that day, so it was a good day all round.
The games just like WoW but in space and it totally sucks and were all glad your here to reveal the truth to us simple minded buffons. So thanks you can go now, your work is done, congratulate yourself with a well earned milkshake!....
I haven't seen a UFO, but people told me they exist.
They are either lying or mistaken about what they saw, right?
This makes no sense whatsoever.
Precisely! /clap x 3
UFOs could exist but just because I haven't the vision to see beyond two self-imposed limited variables, the conclusion is faulty. And so is the OP premise that only two answers are possible in this situation, period.
Thank you for responding so I could tell you that personally.
Maybe you could suggest other variables and start adding to the discussion in a meaningful sense?
Because, right now, I am seeing no value to your flawed observations here at all.
Who said in first place, the only options are "lying" or "low demand"?
*edited due to excessive trolling*
Then give us another.
Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can.
Why should he or anyone else for that matter?
because he has made the point, and now he must back it up.
Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can.
To think they'd set a limit on just pre-orders alone is somewhat silly.
Yet this is exactly what they have said is the case.
They have clearly sought to establish that there is a limited and exhaustible amount of number of pre-orders and if you want one you must buy it NOW before they run out.
Like I say, if it was a company like Aventurine playing the same game the majority here would be raging against them, but with Bioware (actually EA) the rabids defend, rationalise, and justify. To be a 'fan' of a game you must defend EVERY aspect of it right? No weakness in the armour allowed!
Personally,with this game I have talked about the good and bad of it (I like the companions and think the story areas are excellent for instance) but it seems that with the main that post here no critical discussion will ever be tolerated. Thats a shame, because no game or company is perfect and all aspects should be discussed freely with an open mind.
I don't view it as lying per sec, rather its just a standard marketing ploy to build up artificial demand. Toy manufacturers have been successfully using this trick around Christmas for many years.
Watch how challenging it will be to log in the first few weeks, expecting some very long log in queues no matter how hard they try to prepare for the onslaught.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't view it as lying per sec, rather its just a standard marketing ploy to build up artificial demand. Toy manufacturers have been successfully using this trick around Christmas for many years.
Watch how challenging it will be to log in the first few weeks, expecting some very long log in queues no matter how hard they try to prepare for the onslaught.
How is it not a lie? Even 'per sec'? (did you mean 'per se', as in 'in itself'? Not criticising or correcting, just asking for clarity)
I agree that it's a standard lie that is used, but it is still a lie, and thats all the OP asked.
A lie being 'standard' dosent make it any truer or more acceptable.
The fact is that they are probably quite well aware of the numbers they can handle per server. I think this is where the "guild pre-creation" is a handy tool. You have people form guilds already and then make alliances before the game goes live. Then you distribute the guilds with their allies among the servers and create multiple servers that have solid guilds in place and "guarranteed" players going there, at least at first.
The problem with the queues have mostly been about everyone flocking to one or few servers, that are "the most populated ones" and no one willing to go to that "pop low rp server"... Thus the number of people they can support is really a moot point since people still play on the server of their choosing. Having people already spread out among several servers because their guilds are there, now that is devious of them.
Have to give them props for that... I certainly hope that the game goes "pre order live" several weeks in advance so my xmas won't be totally ruined by this. And for the fact that the queues that will be there, will be much shorter then by the time the game goes full on live.
I just want to play it already. And not some beta that I won't have time to really dig into... And since the client is 27Gb in size is a stupefying amount of downloading to be done by my slow internet connection.
Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can.
To think they'd set a limit on just pre-orders alone is somewhat silly.
Yet this is exactly what they have said is the case.
They have clearly sought to establish that there is a limited and exhaustible amount of number of pre-orders and if you want one you must buy it NOW before they run out.
Like I say, if it was a company like Aventurine playing the same game the majority here would be raging against them, but with Bioware (actually EA) the rabids defend, rationalise, and justify. To be a 'fan' of a game you must defend EVERY aspect of it right? No weakness in the armour allowed!
Personally,with this game I have talked about the good and bad of it (I like the companions and think the story areas are excellent for instance) but it seems that with the main that post here no critical discussion will ever be tolerated. Thats a shame, because no game or company is perfect and all aspects should be discussed freely with an open mind.
I think you're looking at these responses in the wrong way. You're OP says "it can only be one or the other, right?" well something like that.
What you're seeing a whole lot of is others speculating on other things their wording could mean. There's only a few making definitive statements here (that actually responded to your op) and you're one of them.
Second it's a bit unfair to brush others opinions off as "defending" if your intentions are a fair and respectable discussion. It makes this whole thread seem disingenuous.
With that said, there are 3 possibilities here I can think of, off the top of my head.
A: It's all marketing to push sales.
B: there's an actual limit in place that will take effect when the game launches, (we'll know in december for sure).
C. They never hit the limit they set...
With all of these "possibilities" all we can do is speculate on what is true and what isn't.
Knowing what the average person does about big business, it's not a stretch to feel it may just be "marketing". At the same time a realist can see with a product like this, it's very possible they may set a sales limit at some point and stagger users in as "space" becomes available.
Why would that be? In many cases companies have just opened the flood gate and left it to fate. We've all seen the results of that.
Also a lot of early starts begin on a date, and everyone (who qualifies) is left to rush in on that date, that definitely isn't the case with TOR. As they are taking an approach that will stagger users into early start, they've said as much, they've also reminded those who have preordered, more than once, how they will be handling that part of launch.
They've also limited the regions the game will launch in, and have faced pretty hefty critique for doing so.
All fo that considered I don't think it's a stretch to say it may be true to an extent that they will be limiting launch day/week sales.
IMO it's too early to say with certainty any of the above possibilities are true.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I haven't seen a UFO, but people told me they exist.
They are either lying or mistaken about what they saw, right?
This makes no sense whatsoever.
Precisely! /clap x 3
UFOs could exist but just because I haven't the vision to see beyond two self-imposed limited variables, the conclusion is faulty. And so is the OP premise that only two answers are possible in this situation, period.
Thank you for responding so I could tell you that personally.
Maybe you could suggest other variables and start adding to the discussion in a meaningful sense?
Because, right now, I am seeing no value to your flawed observations here at all.
Who said in first place, the only options are "lying" or "low demand"?
*edited due to excessive trolling*
Then give us another.
Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can.
Why should he or anyone else for that matter?
because he has made the point, and now he must back it up.
Now answer the rest of my post vesavius. Seems you are afraid to answer the main point of it for some reason since you have now ignored it THREE times. Here it is again to make it easier to remember:
Why should he or anyone else for that matter? You have obviously taken a dislke to the game and now assume that anything said is either wrong or niave or some such. Your position is the most unreasonable one on this entire thread, but due to your dislike, you are blinded to it.
Now it's your turn, take a step back and answer honestly, if this was a game that you were looking forward to . . . would you actually be acting in the manner you are or would you be more tempered or even defensive towards "your" game?
Something tells me you will ignore this question AGAIN since to answer it honestly is to risk admitting being wrong or worse, intentionally being a . . .
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I haven't seen a UFO, but people told me they exist.
They are either lying or mistaken about what they saw, right?
This makes no sense whatsoever.
Precisely! /clap x 3
UFOs could exist but just because I haven't the vision to see beyond two self-imposed limited variables, the conclusion is faulty. And so is the OP premise that only two answers are possible in this situation, period.
Thank you for responding so I could tell you that personally.
Maybe you could suggest other variables and start adding to the discussion in a meaningful sense?
Because, right now, I am seeing no value to your flawed observations here at all.
Who said in first place, the only options are "lying" or "low demand"?
*edited due to excessive trolling*
Then give us another.
Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can.
Why should he or anyone else for that matter?
because he has made the point, and now he must back it up.
Now answer the rest of my post vesavius.
Not until this very basic point has been addressed. But your being evasive again ofc.
If you make or support a point, back it up. Do not throw chaff into the air in the forms of personal observations of the other person's agenda or motives or whatever as a distraction.
Not until this very basic point has been addressed. But your being evasive again ofc.
If you make or support a point, back it up. Do not throw chaff into the air in the forms of personal observations of the other person's agenda or motives or whatever as a distraction.
Thats just bad debate.
Have you actually been reading this thread? Up till this post you've ignored all the posters and posts that mentioned other reasons than your kind of biased opinion that EA/BW must be a shady, untrustworthy company the way they use the word 'limited'. Next to that, you've insulted and flamed other posters who gave other reasons by saying that their motives are untrustworthy since they're fans and that they wouldn't say the same if it was about another company, which is a blatant lie.
When you want to talk 'bad debate', that's exactly the example you've been setting.
If you're really objective and openminded enough for an honest debate to acknowledge other opinions besides your own heavily negative one regarding EA/BW, I'd be happy to recapitulate the alternative reasons and arguments that other posters already have given to your OP question.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I haven't seen a UFO, but people told me they exist.
They are either lying or mistaken about what they saw, right?
This makes no sense whatsoever.
Precisely! /clap x 3
UFOs could exist but just because I haven't the vision to see beyond two self-imposed limited variables, the conclusion is faulty. And so is the OP premise that only two answers are possible in this situation, period.
Thank you for responding so I could tell you that personally.
Maybe you could suggest other variables and start adding to the discussion in a meaningful sense?
Because, right now, I am seeing no value to your flawed observations here at all.
Who said in first place, the only options are "lying" or "low demand"?
*edited due to excessive trolling*
Then give us another.
Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can.
Why should he or anyone else for that matter?
because he has made the point, and now he must back it up.
Now answer the rest of my post vesavius.
Not until this very basic point has been addressed. But your being evasive again ofc.
If you make or support a point, back it up. Do not throw chaff into the air in the forms of personal observations of the other person's agenda or motives or whatever as a distraction.
Thats just bad debate.
BAD DEBATE? The question HAS been answered numerous times.
You are the one that is refusing to even look at any opinion other than your own grossly one sided one. Many people have put out reasons they feel that EA/BioWare is not in the wrong/lying and you have done nothing but dismiss them because it does not fit the answer you have come to without ANY proof what so ever.
Then when someone asks you if you would act this way for a game or developer YOU do like, you first ignore the question, then try to deride the questioner instead of giving an honest answer. If anyone deserves to be treated with contempt here though, it is you for failing to answer a simple question OR provide any PROOF for your ignorant OP and further posts.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Standard marketing ploy to boost impulse sales by creating anxiety in the buyer by introducing a false sense of scarcity/urgency. It is what it is.....trying to rationalize it as something other then that is bunk.
On the other hand, it's the same tactic used by about 95% of the marketing departments in existance (regardless of the type of business/product.).... so nothing really noteworthy to single out Bioware for (besides it's probably EA calling the shots on this one anyway).
Bottom line, the only way this would be related to a real issue was if they thought thier server infrastructure couldn't handle the load (absolutely nothing to do with bugs in thier game code). Ten years ago, that might have been a legitimate case for that.... these days it really shouldn't be the case .For something that is expected to have the usage base TOR does and has been in Development as long as they have....if you are thier Infrastructure Manager and it's september and you are trying to tell your management that they have to limit sales for a product that isn't due to launch until end of December because you don't know if you can scale the infrastructure by then (even though pre-orders will tell you exactly how much you need to scale by) then you REALLY aught to consider a new career in the food services industry....because Network Operations is clearly not for you.
Standard marketing ploy to boost impulse sales by creating anxiety in the buyer by introducing a false sense of scarcity/urgency. It is what it is.....trying to rationalize it as something other then that is bunk.
On the other hand, it's the same tactic used by about 95% of the marketing departments in existance (regardless of the type of business/product.).... so nothing really noteworthy to single out Bioware for (besides it's probably EA calling the shots on this one anyway).
Bottom line, the only way this would be related to a real issue was if they thought thier server infrastructure couldn't handle the load (absolutely nothing to do with bugs in thier game code). Ten years ago, that might have been a legitimate case for that.... these days it really shouldn't be the case .For something that is expected to have the usage base TOR does and has been in Development as long as they have....if you are thier Infrastructure Manager and it's september and you are trying to tell your management that they have to limit sales for a product that isn't due to launch until end of December because you don't know if you can scale the infrastructure by then (even though pre-orders will tell you exactly how much you need to scale by) then you REALLY aught to consider a new career in the food services industry....because Network Operations is clearly not for you.
+1
one of the few good reads on mmorpg.com in a long time
Standard marketing ploy to boost impulse sales by creating anxiety in the buyer by introducing a false sense of scarcity/urgency. It is what it is.....trying to rationalize it as something other then that is bunk.
On the other hand, it's the same tactic used by about 95% of the marketing departments in existance (regardless of the type of business/product.).... so nothing really noteworthy to single out Bioware for (besides it's probably EA calling the shots on this one anyway).
Bottom line, the only way this would be related to a real issue was if they thought thier server infrastructure couldn't handle the load (absolutely nothing to do with bugs in thier game code). Ten years ago, that might have been a legitimate case for that.... these days it really shouldn't be the case .For something that is expected to have the usage base TOR does and has been in Development as long as they have....if you are thier Infrastructure Manager and it's september and you are trying to tell your management that they have to limit sales for a product that isn't due to launch until end of December because you don't know if you can scale the infrastructure by then (even though pre-orders will tell you exactly how much you need to scale by) then you REALLY aught to consider a new career in the food services industry....because Network Operations is clearly not for you.
+1
one of the few good reads on mmorpg.com in a long time
Perfectly valid point, but before you can go calling people liars, you have to have something crucial . . . PROOF! I firmly believe that limiting pre-orders is PART of the marketing campaign, but I will not call BioWare or any other company a liar for the tactic until I can prove that they are not, at least in part, concerned about providing the absolutely smoothest launch possible. For anyone that has been around for more than a little while, they know how rare that has been in the last few years AND how long it will be held against a company. Heck, people still complain about the less than stellar launch of WoW and that was eight years ago.
So, perfectly valid point that marketing was at least in part responsible for limiting the pre-orders, but calling them liars without proof is not valid.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I haven't seen a UFO, but people told me they exist.
They are either lying or mistaken about what they saw, right?
This makes no sense whatsoever.
Precisely! /clap x 3
UFOs could exist but just because I haven't the vision to see beyond two self-imposed limited variables, the conclusion is faulty. And so is the OP premise that only two answers are possible in this situation, period.
Thank you for responding so I could tell you that personally.
Maybe you could suggest other variables and start adding to the discussion in a meaningful sense?
Because, right now, I am seeing no value to your flawed observations here at all.
Who said in first place, the only options are "lying" or "low demand"?
*edited due to excessive trolling*
Then give us another.
Calmly, clearly, and without personal attacks, if you can.
Why should he or anyone else for that matter?
because he has made the point, and now he must back it up.
Now answer the rest of my post vesavius.
Not until this very basic point has been addressed. But your being evasive again ofc.
If you make or support a point, back it up. Do not throw chaff into the air in the forms of personal observations of the other person's agenda or motives or whatever as a distraction.
Thats just bad debate.
BAD DEBATE? The question HAS been answered numerous times.
Comments
If i understand this thread correctly (i could be wrong) these are the two scenarios we are looking at
Copies avialable while supplies last
and
Copies will be available right up to launch
Neither of these statements conflict each other.
I'll explain
This is what we call a whichever comes first scenario
pre-orders will be available right up to launch assuming we still have pre-order copies to sell.
If we run out of copies before the release date then copies will no longer be available.
The available right up to launch is just saying we aren't artifically cutting the time you can order X amount of days before the games release. So you can (assuming supplies last) order 1 day before the game launches and get the pre-order stuff.
These two statements don't say anything about how many pre-orders they have nor do they say anything about the demands for said item. They are just saying that the only time limits for pre-ordering are stock/release day, whichever come s first.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Sixteen pages from one false dichotomy. Not bad at all.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
You know, I asked in another thread what people would be complaining about, I should have kept my damn mouth shut.
I think this is a marketing strategy based on potential failure. This way if instead of 3 million subs they have 3 to 6 hundred thousand subs but only at start up, they can open a few servers and say thats exactly what they expected anyway. Also if the bugs that need ironing out happen to be really bad bugs, then they can contain it and not have massive early game fallout, or if they do have a massive fallout based on bugs they wont worry to much about it since their marketing ploy is to simply say user base is declining because we have refused to open new accounts or servers as of yet. That way they can slow word of mouth negative press, which they have gotten more than enough of already.
I think this thread is EVE's version of 'You are not killing us fast enough!'
For those who do not know, it is a phrase that gained noteriaty when an alliance went to the forums to say 'you took 3 systems from us but with your superior numbers you should have taken 10!' - hence the phrase.
Which is quite hilarious but w/e.
In 80 days or so, I'll be online rolling a Fem Shep... sorry.. Female Trooper. :P
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Always have a plan B just in case things go down the toilet lol.
so in my case if this game fails for whatever reason i'll also have GW2 lol.
and if they both go bad /quit mmo's all together lol.
PSN-SlyFox5679
Xfire-Slyfox5679
raptr-slygamer1979
Boy does this forum have a huge bunch of "drama queens" on it... You make an issue of something like this???
I'm quite sure that they have a limit to all the pre-orders etc. There is a physical limitation to it. They are planning to make "so and so much copies" for the launch, so they can sell only "server maximum load minus launch copies" of the game as pre-order. But if the product is moving, they can always decide to add more servers to get more money out of a hot product.
Everything is limited. It's not like their servers have unlimited bandwidth on them and performance power...
There is no such thing as "unlimited"...
Err of course pre-orders arent limited.
They will need time to build the infrastructure if they get 50 million players in the first week, though.
In fact they will need to hire a ***load of people, if its that successful.
Yes it's a lie, clealry noone wanted to preorder the game at all but then the marketing monkey came up with the brilliant idea of putting the word, 'limited', on the preorder page and everyone flocked there. The marketing monkey was awarded with an extra bananna that day, so it was a good day all round.
The games just like WoW but in space and it totally sucks and were all glad your here to reveal the truth to us simple minded buffons. So thanks you can go now, your work is done, congratulate yourself with a well earned milkshake!....
just in case.../sarcasm off
because he has made the point, and now he must back it up.
Yet this is exactly what they have said is the case.
They have clearly sought to establish that there is a limited and exhaustible amount of number of pre-orders and if you want one you must buy it NOW before they run out.
Like I say, if it was a company like Aventurine playing the same game the majority here would be raging against them, but with Bioware (actually EA) the rabids defend, rationalise, and justify. To be a 'fan' of a game you must defend EVERY aspect of it right? No weakness in the armour allowed!
Personally,with this game I have talked about the good and bad of it (I like the companions and think the story areas are excellent for instance) but it seems that with the main that post here no critical discussion will ever be tolerated. Thats a shame, because no game or company is perfect and all aspects should be discussed freely with an open mind.
I don't view it as lying per sec, rather its just a standard marketing ploy to build up artificial demand. Toy manufacturers have been successfully using this trick around Christmas for many years.
Watch how challenging it will be to log in the first few weeks, expecting some very long log in queues no matter how hard they try to prepare for the onslaught.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
How is it not a lie? Even 'per sec'? (did you mean 'per se', as in 'in itself'? Not criticising or correcting, just asking for clarity)
I agree that it's a standard lie that is used, but it is still a lie, and thats all the OP asked.
A lie being 'standard' dosent make it any truer or more acceptable.
The fact is that they are probably quite well aware of the numbers they can handle per server. I think this is where the "guild pre-creation" is a handy tool. You have people form guilds already and then make alliances before the game goes live. Then you distribute the guilds with their allies among the servers and create multiple servers that have solid guilds in place and "guarranteed" players going there, at least at first.
The problem with the queues have mostly been about everyone flocking to one or few servers, that are "the most populated ones" and no one willing to go to that "pop low rp server"... Thus the number of people they can support is really a moot point since people still play on the server of their choosing. Having people already spread out among several servers because their guilds are there, now that is devious of them.
Have to give them props for that... I certainly hope that the game goes "pre order live" several weeks in advance so my xmas won't be totally ruined by this. And for the fact that the queues that will be there, will be much shorter then by the time the game goes full on live.
I just want to play it already. And not some beta that I won't have time to really dig into... And since the client is 27Gb in size is a stupefying amount of downloading to be done by my slow internet connection.
I think you're looking at these responses in the wrong way. You're OP says "it can only be one or the other, right?" well something like that.
What you're seeing a whole lot of is others speculating on other things their wording could mean. There's only a few making definitive statements here (that actually responded to your op) and you're one of them.
Second it's a bit unfair to brush others opinions off as "defending" if your intentions are a fair and respectable discussion. It makes this whole thread seem disingenuous.
With that said, there are 3 possibilities here I can think of, off the top of my head.
A: It's all marketing to push sales.
B: there's an actual limit in place that will take effect when the game launches, (we'll know in december for sure).
C. They never hit the limit they set...
With all of these "possibilities" all we can do is speculate on what is true and what isn't.
Knowing what the average person does about big business, it's not a stretch to feel it may just be "marketing". At the same time a realist can see with a product like this, it's very possible they may set a sales limit at some point and stagger users in as "space" becomes available.
Why would that be? In many cases companies have just opened the flood gate and left it to fate. We've all seen the results of that.
Also a lot of early starts begin on a date, and everyone (who qualifies) is left to rush in on that date, that definitely isn't the case with TOR. As they are taking an approach that will stagger users into early start, they've said as much, they've also reminded those who have preordered, more than once, how they will be handling that part of launch.
They've also limited the regions the game will launch in, and have faced pretty hefty critique for doing so.
All fo that considered I don't think it's a stretch to say it may be true to an extent that they will be limiting launch day/week sales.
IMO it's too early to say with certainty any of the above possibilities are true.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Now answer the rest of my post vesavius. Seems you are afraid to answer the main point of it for some reason since you have now ignored it THREE times. Here it is again to make it easier to remember:
Why should he or anyone else for that matter? You have obviously taken a dislke to the game and now assume that anything said is either wrong or niave or some such. Your position is the most unreasonable one on this entire thread, but due to your dislike, you are blinded to it.
Now it's your turn, take a step back and answer honestly, if this was a game that you were looking forward to . . . would you actually be acting in the manner you are or would you be more tempered or even defensive towards "your" game?
Something tells me you will ignore this question AGAIN since to answer it honestly is to risk admitting being wrong or worse, intentionally being a . . .
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Not until this very basic point has been addressed. But your being evasive again ofc.
If you make or support a point, back it up. Do not throw chaff into the air in the forms of personal observations of the other person's agenda or motives or whatever as a distraction.
Thats just bad debate.
Have you actually been reading this thread? Up till this post you've ignored all the posters and posts that mentioned other reasons than your kind of biased opinion that EA/BW must be a shady, untrustworthy company the way they use the word 'limited'. Next to that, you've insulted and flamed other posters who gave other reasons by saying that their motives are untrustworthy since they're fans and that they wouldn't say the same if it was about another company, which is a blatant lie.
When you want to talk 'bad debate', that's exactly the example you've been setting.
If you're really objective and openminded enough for an honest debate to acknowledge other opinions besides your own heavily negative one regarding EA/BW, I'd be happy to recapitulate the alternative reasons and arguments that other posters already have given to your OP question.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
BAD DEBATE? The question HAS been answered numerous times.
You are the one that is refusing to even look at any opinion other than your own grossly one sided one. Many people have put out reasons they feel that EA/BioWare is not in the wrong/lying and you have done nothing but dismiss them because it does not fit the answer you have come to without ANY proof what so ever.
Then when someone asks you if you would act this way for a game or developer YOU do like, you first ignore the question, then try to deride the questioner instead of giving an honest answer. If anyone deserves to be treated with contempt here though, it is you for failing to answer a simple question OR provide any PROOF for your ignorant OP and further posts.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Standard marketing ploy to boost impulse sales by creating anxiety in the buyer by introducing a false sense of scarcity/urgency. It is what it is.....trying to rationalize it as something other then that is bunk.
On the other hand, it's the same tactic used by about 95% of the marketing departments in existance (regardless of the type of business/product.).... so nothing really noteworthy to single out Bioware for (besides it's probably EA calling the shots on this one anyway).
Bottom line, the only way this would be related to a real issue was if they thought thier server infrastructure couldn't handle the load (absolutely nothing to do with bugs in thier game code). Ten years ago, that might have been a legitimate case for that.... these days it really shouldn't be the case .For something that is expected to have the usage base TOR does and has been in Development as long as they have....if you are thier Infrastructure Manager and it's september and you are trying to tell your management that they have to limit sales for a product that isn't due to launch until end of December because you don't know if you can scale the infrastructure by then (even though pre-orders will tell you exactly how much you need to scale by) then you REALLY aught to consider a new career in the food services industry....because Network Operations is clearly not for you.
+1
one of the few good reads on mmorpg.com in a long time
List of SOE lies
Perfectly valid point, but before you can go calling people liars, you have to have something crucial . . . PROOF! I firmly believe that limiting pre-orders is PART of the marketing campaign, but I will not call BioWare or any other company a liar for the tactic until I can prove that they are not, at least in part, concerned about providing the absolutely smoothest launch possible. For anyone that has been around for more than a little while, they know how rare that has been in the last few years AND how long it will be held against a company. Heck, people still complain about the less than stellar launch of WoW and that was eight years ago.
So, perfectly valid point that marketing was at least in part responsible for limiting the pre-orders, but calling them liars without proof is not valid.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
No, no it really hasnt.