But taking a group of players and flanking a position with magic and arrows flying while they scramble into the shields and blades of the melee; that's priceless.
It's worth every complaint a care bear cares to spill.
What's truly priceless, is when the so called "hard core PvPers" whine and complain that no one wants to play with them after they've driven away all of the "carebears", aka the vast majority of gamers.
A smiley? Should've ended with /nohomo
Regardless, top PC games are all player vs player games. All MMOs that make it tout it as a major feature.
PvE only MMOs fizzle out pretty quick.
So, you're wrong. No smiley needed.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
I would certanly be ok with the ability to do so if it had consequences which affected that higher players end game. Nobody thinks games should mirror every day life, it's part of the reason we play games - to escape to another reality.
With that being said, there needs to be some type of dynamic stopgap which will force the accumulation of a "bad rap" to said person who continuously ganks lowbies. I would presume some type of loyalty loss or something along those lines. Your main faction could get pissed off enough to stop allowing you to enter the city without, say, bribing the guards and maybe lose acess to "teleportation devices" or some such.
I think you might find that if there were actual consequences to actions in games (whether good or bad) people would use judement before proceeding rather than using the standard internet-anonymous conscience.
But taking a group of players and flanking a position with magic and arrows flying while they scramble into the shields and blades of the melee; that's priceless.
It's worth every complaint a care bear cares to spill.
What's truly priceless, is when the so called "hard core PvPers" whine and complain that no one wants to play with them after they've driven away all of the "carebears", aka the vast majority of gamers.
A smiley? Should've ended with /nohomo
Regardless, top PC games are all player vs player games. All MMOs that make it tout it as a major feature.
I would certanly be ok with the ability to do so if it had consequences which affected that higher players end game. Nobody thinks games should mirror every day life, it's part of the reason we play games - to escape to another reality.
With that being said, there needs to be some type of dynamic stopgap which will force the accumulation of a "bad rap" to said person who continuously ganks lowbies. I would presume some type of loyalty loss or something along those lines. Your main faction could get pissed off enough to stop allowing you to enter the city without, say, bribing the guards and maybe lose acess to "teleportation devices" or some such.
I think you might find that if there were actual consequences to actions in games (whether good or bad) people would use judement before proceeding rather than using the standard internet-anonymous conscience.
I really like your post, Quesa, and agree w/you entirely. I've been thinking of some potential consequences, for ganking, myself. They may work and offer a more level playing field, or they might fail miserably.
Let's say we're playing Douchebag Empire Kingdoms Online. I'm a level 85 Douchebag Rogue and you're a level 5 Knight of the Entry Level. As it stands, my rogue has 60,000 physical attack power, 40,000 physical defense, and another 40,000 magic defense power. Your knight has a physical attack power of 200, a physical defense of 400, and a magic defense of 400. So...I'm stealthing into the starter zone, lookin' for some fresh noob meat to pwn. I see you, in the middle of doing your daily quests and think, "Lol, ima pwn this fail noob. Lol, noobs are so fail." So...I sneak up, right behind you, and BAM! Backstab you for 60k damage, although you only had 1k hp. "Lol, you just got PWNED, noob! /teabag".
So...I already know where you're gonna respawn at, so I cast "haste/swiftness/run faster" or what the hell ever. I make it there just as you're about to step out of the "safety ring" and BAM! I PK'ed you again...but something is different this time. Last time, I hit you for a full 60k of damage, but this time...I hit you for 30,100 damage. FTW?!? I open up my character sheet and notice that my physical attack power HAS INDEED been dropped to just 30,100, my pdef and mdef are now just 20,200 each. Again...FTW?!? This is somehow YOUR fault, so ima just PK you again. HA! 1-shotted you again, but this time...only 10,300 damage?!?!? What's happening to me?!?!?
Every time I PK'ed you...my own stats for physical attack, magical attack, physical defense, and magical defense were added to yours, then DIVIDED BY TWO by the server. So...I can still gank lowbies for awhile, but eventually, I'm going to be a level 85 with the stats of a level 15 (or less), pretty soon. How can I raise my stats again? Two ways. I can defeat (not just fight) people with higher stats than me, or...I can wait for the server cooldown/reset that will put me back to normal, but it'll take two to four weeks (I haven't decided yet). Basically, I'd like the penalty to be cumulative and take its toll, whether through time (not playing) or forcing gankers to pick fights with people who can actually defend themselves. I'd thought about dropping their stats like this and then having the servers kick them back into a high-level zone, though with their "balls" cut off. On the flip side of this, if I defeat someone more powerful than me, I get a substantial buff to my stats for x-amount of time. Again...this whole thing could curb a lot of the crap, or it may not work at all. Who knows.
Regardless, top PC games are all player vs player games. All MMOs that make it tout it as a major feature.
PvE only MMOs fizzle out pretty quick.
So, you're wrong. No smiley needed.
What exactly are you smoking? The biggest mmo by FAR is clearly a PVE-focused game (WOW). Name one PVP-focused game that has more than 1% of the market.
Don't get me wrong. I like PVP in the right forms. I'm just pointing out that your statement is really off the mark.
One shot killz FTW. I admit I did it a couple of times for the lulz, I used to go to the auction house in Stormwind and kill the NPCs and maybe 2 or 3 players if I had the time before the guards or players sent me back to the nearest graveyard. The challenge was to stay alive as much time as possible
Regardless, top PC games are all player vs player games. All MMOs that make it tout it as a major feature.
PvE only MMOs fizzle out pretty quick.
So, you're wrong. No smiley needed.
What exactly are you smoking? The biggest mmo by FAR is clearly a PVE-focused game (WOW). Name one PVP-focused game that has more than 1% of the market.
Don't get me wrong. I like PVP in the right forms. I'm just pointing out that your statement is really off the mark.
SWTOR announced that you would not be able to make your way to the opponents starting world and gank starting players. It did not say that they removed PVP, that it would only be instanced PVP, or that once someone left the starter planets (around lvl 20 or so) that you couldn't attack them. ONLY that you you couldn't go and gank brand new toons.
Nerd rage followed from the PK community.
My question is WHY?
Why is the ability to kill brand new players so integral to the playstyle? Why does the temporary ability to avoid ganking cause so much hate and discontent?
Regardless, top PC games are all player vs player games. All MMOs that make it tout it as a major feature.
PvE only MMOs fizzle out pretty quick.
So, you're wrong. No smiley needed.
What exactly are you smoking? The biggest mmo by FAR is clearly a PVE-focused game (WOW). Name one PVP-focused game that has more than 1% of the market.
Don't get me wrong. I like PVP in the right forms. I'm just pointing out that your statement is really off the mark.
Biggest increase of player base post launch came with xp in pvp and holding arena tournies. Each expansion since then introduced a larger portion of open world pvp involvement.
What are you denying?
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Originally posted by PukeBucket Originally posted by zaxxon23
Originally posted by PukeBucket A smiley? Should've ended with /nohomo Regardless, top PC games are all player vs player games. All MMOs that make it tout it as a major feature. PvE only MMOs fizzle out pretty quick. So, you're wrong. No smiley needed.
What exactly are you smoking? The biggest mmo by FAR is clearly a PVE-focused game (WOW). Name one PVP-focused game that has more than 1% of the market. Don't get me wrong. I like PVP in the right forms. I'm just pointing out that your statement is really off the mark. Biggest increase of player base post launch came with xp in pvp and holding arena tournies. Each expansion since then introduced a larger portion of open world pvp involvement. What are you denying?
It's kind of pointless to argue about which type of content pulls in the most people. The games with the biggest draw combine PvE content and PvP content. Games that focus on either one are going to pull in fewer people. This is why 'ganking newbies' is an issue. You have PvE people who end up in PvP content whether they want it or not.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Regardless, top PC games are all player vs player games. All MMOs that make it tout it as a major feature.
PvE only MMOs fizzle out pretty quick.
So, you're wrong. No smiley needed.
What exactly are you smoking? The biggest mmo by FAR is clearly a PVE-focused game (WOW). Name one PVP-focused game that has more than 1% of the market.
Don't get me wrong. I like PVP in the right forms. I'm just pointing out that your statement is really off the mark.
Biggest increase of player base post launch came with xp in pvp and holding arena tournies. Each expansion since then introduced a larger portion of open world pvp involvement.
What are you denying?
It's kind of pointless to argue about which type of content pulls in the most people. The games with the biggest draw combine PvE content and PvP content. Games that focus on either one are going to pull in fewer people. This is why 'ganking newbies' is an issue. You have PvE people who end up in PvP content whether they want it or not.
That's probably true, but it's hard to deny the "coincidence" and the further progress of "something tacked on".
If whiner carebear propaganda runs too rampant it's 10x worse than in-game ganking. Because only good sense gets murdered.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
SWTOR announced that you would not be able to make your way to the opponents starting world and gank starting players. It did not say that they removed PVP, that it would only be instanced PVP, or that once someone left the starter planets (around lvl 20 or so) that you couldn't attack them. ONLY that you you couldn't go and gank brand new toons.
Nerd rage followed from the PK community.
My question is WHY?
Why is the ability to kill brand new players so integral to the playstyle? Why does the temporary ability to avoid ganking cause so much hate and discontent?
SWTOR has a PK community?
Seems somewhat odd to me as well.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
But taking a group of players and flanking a position with magic and arrows flying while they scramble into the shields and blades of the melee; that's priceless.
It's worth every complaint a care bear cares to spill.
What's truly priceless, is when the so called "hard core PvPers" whine and complain that no one wants to play with them after they've driven away all of the "carebears", aka the vast majority of gamers.
A smiley? Should've ended with /nohomo
Regardless, top PC games are all player vs player games. All MMOs that make it tout it as a major feature.
PvE only MMOs fizzle out pretty quick.
So, you're wrong. No smiley needed.
Where did I say that PvP wasn't a popular feature? I didn't.
I did however, say that FFA PvP isn't popular, because it's not. The most popular PvP in gaming is the kind that you can instantly jump in and out of, that's contained, and has zero consequence if you lose. So yeah, it doesn't matter so much if you get "ganked", because it doesn't really matter since there's no real consequence and you can easily remove yourself from the situation.
And actually the most popular MMOs are PvE centric with a PvP sideshow. Arenas in WoW are a sideshow, PvE is the main attraction.
Originally posted by PukeBucket Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by PukeBucket
Originally posted by zaxxon23
Originally posted by PukeBucket A smiley? Should've ended with /nohomo Regardless, top PC games are all player vs player games. All MMOs that make it tout it as a major feature. PvE only MMOs fizzle out pretty quick. So, you're wrong. No smiley needed.
What exactly are you smoking? The biggest mmo by FAR is clearly a PVE-focused game (WOW). Name one PVP-focused game that has more than 1% of the market. Don't get me wrong. I like PVP in the right forms. I'm just pointing out that your statement is really off the mark.
Biggest increase of player base post launch came with xp in pvp and holding arena tournies. Each expansion since then introduced a larger portion of open world pvp involvement. What are you denying?
It's kind of pointless to argue about which type of content pulls in the most people. The games with the biggest draw combine PvE content and PvP content. Games that focus on either one are going to pull in fewer people. This is why 'ganking newbies' is an issue. You have PvE people who end up in PvP content whether they want it or not.
That's probably true, but it's hard to deny the "coincidence" and the further progress of "something tacked on". If whiner carebear propaganda runs too rampant it's 10x worse than in-game ganking. Because only good sense gets murdered.
I'm not sure where you're going with that. In games like Rift, the PvP ends up just as they intended for it to end up. It's not a primary focus of the game and never was. I imagine it's the same with SW:ToR. The PvP in that game is going to be as intended. Instanced battleground style PvP with some open PvP areas. On PvP servers, the open world pvp will be largely pointless in the larger context of the game. The PvP isn't an afterthought, it's just not the main focus of the game. People shouldn't expect it to be; they'll only be disappointed.
I'll be honest, I've seen a LOT more whining from PvP players about the 'sorry state of PvP' than I have whining from PvE players getting ganked. For what it's worth, PvE players whine a LOT more about the 'sorry state of PvE' than they whine about getting ganked too.
Low level/new players getting killed just isn't that big a deal in most games. On the 'WoW'* side you just can't do it. On the Eve side, you should realize it's probably going to happen, or find a safe zone if they exist.
Killing a low level/new player in any game is pretty much a d-bag move and hurts the game a lot more than it hurts the new player.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Regardless, top PC games are all player vs player games. All MMOs that make it tout it as a major feature.
PvE only MMOs fizzle out pretty quick.
So, you're wrong. No smiley needed.
What exactly are you smoking? The biggest mmo by FAR is clearly a PVE-focused game (WOW). Name one PVP-focused game that has more than 1% of the market.
Don't get me wrong. I like PVP in the right forms. I'm just pointing out that your statement is really off the mark.
Biggest increase of player base post launch came with xp in pvp and holding arena tournies. Each expansion since then introduced a larger portion of open world pvp involvement.
What are you denying?
Do you mean open world PvP involvement in terms of the PvP specific zones in WoW, like Wintergrasp?
If you do, then that's not exactly "world PvP". That's "a section of the world sectioned off and dedicated to PvP". It would be just like saying LoTRO has world PvP because the Ettenmoors is a PvP specific zone.
True world PvP is in a MMO like Lineage 2, Darkfall, etc.. where players can attack or be attacked just about anywhere.
WoW is not a true open world PvP MMO. Not by a long shot.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Ganking is nothing short of harrassment, no excuse for it full stop. I'v never ganked nor been ganked, I dont see how a lvl 60, 70, 80 or whatever, going to a low level area and start killing lvl 5's 10's etc is fun, its no more fun than killing low level npc's, all your doing is stopping new players or new characters from learning or achieving any advancement into the game, those players will just give up and find something else. I believe ganking had a negative effect on Darkfall where players got together and started ganking low levels where it had that much negative effect the devs had to step in to stop it. Unfortunately some gamers need to grow up. a lot.
People quickly forget that you have established online grief guilds whose only aim to to ruin the experience of players enough for it to have a knock on effect to sub numbers, using any means from hacks to exploits as well. No griefing of newbies is needed, legit PK will just have to move to the middle game and up to do their thing. Such is the reality. Even DF caved to having newbie protection for a time as the realization of grief guilds able to affect new player subs set in. Some people cater to their more primitive tribal instinct, and these tribes are just out right hostile in temperament, genetics I guess.
It makes little sense to me though why they sabotage their own prey base. Why do they scare away the new players thereby making it less likely for them to stay and provide them with targets.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
It makes little sense to me though why they sabotage their own prey base. Why do they scare away the new players thereby making it less likely for them to stay and provide them with targets.
Because their prey base levels and then it becomes a little harder to kill said prey base.
And we all know ganking newbs is done by hardcore,badass pvp'ers. /sarcasm off
The following statement is false The previous statement is true
Just out of curiosity I wonder how many of the people commenting in this thread have ever actually played mmos (for more than a small amount of time) that have the rulesets in place to allow for ganking.
That is not being used as some sort of veiled stick to beat the anti ganking crowd with btw, I am just curious as to why people who have spent little to zero time in games with certain mechanics are so vocal about said mechanics. When the majority of those that actually play the games, if they get ganked, just get on with it.
I am against the continual ganking of newbs btw. Although not anti ffa.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Regardless, top PC games are all player vs player games. All MMOs that make it tout it as a major feature.
PvE only MMOs fizzle out pretty quick.
So, you're wrong. No smiley needed.
What exactly are you smoking? The biggest mmo by FAR is clearly a PVE-focused game (WOW). Name one PVP-focused game that has more than 1% of the market.
Don't get me wrong. I like PVP in the right forms. I'm just pointing out that your statement is really off the mark.
Biggest increase of player base post launch came with xp in pvp and holding arena tournies. Each expansion since then introduced a larger portion of open world pvp involvement.
What are you denying?
It's kind of pointless to argue about which type of content pulls in the most people. The games with the biggest draw combine PvE content and PvP content. Games that focus on either one are going to pull in fewer people. This is why 'ganking newbies' is an issue. You have PvE people who end up in PvP content whether they want it or not.
I agree with you to the extent that I don't believe WoW would have the subscriber base if not for the immense amount of development time that has been put into PvP. If not for PvP, WoW sub numbers would fluctuate to a much MUCH higher degree.
Also, you can't even claim that WoW is popular because it's PvE. You CAN claim they are popular because they found a HUGE and untapped market along with a massive fan base which pushed the hype so high I had the munchies. It was brilliantly packaged onto a foundation of a smooth and intuitive interface that allowed anyone from age 5 to 80 to play it with ease after 24 hours. The original quest lines and interaction between the player and NPC's were fun and inventive. They all but removed the grind in relation to the other MMO's of that generation. Sure, it had growing pains and bugs but all in all, one of the best and smoothest realeases to date, save my exp with Rift launch, and it earned them the top spot from release to present.
When the game was released it was backed up by some of the richest and oldest lore in the modern gaming industry coupled with a highly renouned gaming producer.
In shorty, stating WoW is popular because of PvE would be as incorrect as stating it would be dead without PvP. It's a game that is the prime example of what happens when you put your heart and soul into a game and caress it with loving care.
This is my opinion so please try not to crucify me but WoW was successful because it gave people the way to PvP for fun and not worry about merciless ganking. It allowed for people like me a housewife with absolutely no aspiration in all my MMO days to PvP until trying it out in Hillsbrad/Tarren Mills and then the bgs. It gave me the chance to experience something I would never have tried on a FFA game ,simply because I would never have played a FFA game. Imagine for a moment how many people out there are like me. That is why the PvP flourished in WoW.
Nobody can crucify anyone for stating how good WoW was/is. All you really have to do is bring up the 10+ million reasons why.
Let it be known that I have played Wow, from Vanilla to Cata until I stopped because I hate how the game development has gone. So, while I despise the game now, I'd be a hypocrite if I stated the game was trash.
Well of course making something more casual and thus more accessible to more people is going to see something be more popular. I think anyone is going to acknowledge that fact, although "accessibility and ease" does not immediately mean "quality", or lack of it.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Comments
A smiley? Should've ended with /nohomo
Regardless, top PC games are all player vs player games. All MMOs that make it tout it as a major feature.
PvE only MMOs fizzle out pretty quick.
So, you're wrong. No smiley needed.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
I would certanly be ok with the ability to do so if it had consequences which affected that higher players end game. Nobody thinks games should mirror every day life, it's part of the reason we play games - to escape to another reality.
With that being said, there needs to be some type of dynamic stopgap which will force the accumulation of a "bad rap" to said person who continuously ganks lowbies. I would presume some type of loyalty loss or something along those lines. Your main faction could get pissed off enough to stop allowing you to enter the city without, say, bribing the guards and maybe lose acess to "teleportation devices" or some such.
I think you might find that if there were actual consequences to actions in games (whether good or bad) people would use judement before proceeding rather than using the standard internet-anonymous conscience.
Are you guys even talking about the same context?
I really like your post, Quesa, and agree w/you entirely. I've been thinking of some potential consequences, for ganking, myself. They may work and offer a more level playing field, or they might fail miserably.
Let's say we're playing Douchebag Empire Kingdoms Online. I'm a level 85 Douchebag Rogue and you're a level 5 Knight of the Entry Level. As it stands, my rogue has 60,000 physical attack power, 40,000 physical defense, and another 40,000 magic defense power. Your knight has a physical attack power of 200, a physical defense of 400, and a magic defense of 400. So...I'm stealthing into the starter zone, lookin' for some fresh noob meat to pwn. I see you, in the middle of doing your daily quests and think, "Lol, ima pwn this fail noob. Lol, noobs are so fail." So...I sneak up, right behind you, and BAM! Backstab you for 60k damage, although you only had 1k hp. "Lol, you just got PWNED, noob! /teabag".
So...I already know where you're gonna respawn at, so I cast "haste/swiftness/run faster" or what the hell ever. I make it there just as you're about to step out of the "safety ring" and BAM! I PK'ed you again...but something is different this time. Last time, I hit you for a full 60k of damage, but this time...I hit you for 30,100 damage. FTW?!? I open up my character sheet and notice that my physical attack power HAS INDEED been dropped to just 30,100, my pdef and mdef are now just 20,200 each. Again...FTW?!? This is somehow YOUR fault, so ima just PK you again. HA! 1-shotted you again, but this time...only 10,300 damage?!?!? What's happening to me?!?!?
Every time I PK'ed you...my own stats for physical attack, magical attack, physical defense, and magical defense were added to yours, then DIVIDED BY TWO by the server. So...I can still gank lowbies for awhile, but eventually, I'm going to be a level 85 with the stats of a level 15 (or less), pretty soon. How can I raise my stats again? Two ways. I can defeat (not just fight) people with higher stats than me, or...I can wait for the server cooldown/reset that will put me back to normal, but it'll take two to four weeks (I haven't decided yet). Basically, I'd like the penalty to be cumulative and take its toll, whether through time (not playing) or forcing gankers to pick fights with people who can actually defend themselves. I'd thought about dropping their stats like this and then having the servers kick them back into a high-level zone, though with their "balls" cut off. On the flip side of this, if I defeat someone more powerful than me, I get a substantial buff to my stats for x-amount of time. Again...this whole thing could curb a lot of the crap, or it may not work at all. Who knows.
What exactly are you smoking? The biggest mmo by FAR is clearly a PVE-focused game (WOW). Name one PVP-focused game that has more than 1% of the market.
Don't get me wrong. I like PVP in the right forms. I'm just pointing out that your statement is really off the mark.
One shot killz FTW. I admit I did it a couple of times for the lulz, I used to go to the auction house in Stormwind and kill the NPCs and maybe 2 or 3 players if I had the time before the guards or players sent me back to the nearest graveyard. The challenge was to stay alive as much time as possible
edit: for the Horde!
Eve? Even matket is pvp there.
SWTOR has a PK community?
Biggest increase of player base post launch came with xp in pvp and holding arena tournies. Each expansion since then introduced a larger portion of open world pvp involvement.
What are you denying?
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Don't get me wrong. I like PVP in the right forms. I'm just pointing out that your statement is really off the mark.
Biggest increase of player base post launch came with xp in pvp and holding arena tournies. Each expansion since then introduced a larger portion of open world pvp involvement.
What are you denying?
It's kind of pointless to argue about which type of content pulls in the most people. The games with the biggest draw combine PvE content and PvP content. Games that focus on either one are going to pull in fewer people. This is why 'ganking newbies' is an issue. You have PvE people who end up in PvP content whether they want it or not.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
That's probably true, but it's hard to deny the "coincidence" and the further progress of "something tacked on".
If whiner carebear propaganda runs too rampant it's 10x worse than in-game ganking. Because only good sense gets murdered.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Seems somewhat odd to me as well.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Where did I say that PvP wasn't a popular feature? I didn't.
I did however, say that FFA PvP isn't popular, because it's not. The most popular PvP in gaming is the kind that you can instantly jump in and out of, that's contained, and has zero consequence if you lose. So yeah, it doesn't matter so much if you get "ganked", because it doesn't really matter since there's no real consequence and you can easily remove yourself from the situation.
And actually the most popular MMOs are PvE centric with a PvP sideshow. Arenas in WoW are a sideshow, PvE is the main attraction.
What exactly are you smoking? The biggest mmo by FAR is clearly a PVE-focused game (WOW). Name one PVP-focused game that has more than 1% of the market.
Don't get me wrong. I like PVP in the right forms. I'm just pointing out that your statement is really off the mark.
Biggest increase of player base post launch came with xp in pvp and holding arena tournies. Each expansion since then introduced a larger portion of open world pvp involvement.
What are you denying?
It's kind of pointless to argue about which type of content pulls in the most people. The games with the biggest draw combine PvE content and PvP content. Games that focus on either one are going to pull in fewer people. This is why 'ganking newbies' is an issue. You have PvE people who end up in PvP content whether they want it or not.
That's probably true, but it's hard to deny the "coincidence" and the further progress of "something tacked on".
If whiner carebear propaganda runs too rampant it's 10x worse than in-game ganking. Because only good sense gets murdered.
I'm not sure where you're going with that. In games like Rift, the PvP ends up just as they intended for it to end up. It's not a primary focus of the game and never was. I imagine it's the same with SW:ToR. The PvP in that game is going to be as intended. Instanced battleground style PvP with some open PvP areas. On PvP servers, the open world pvp will be largely pointless in the larger context of the game. The PvP isn't an afterthought, it's just not the main focus of the game. People shouldn't expect it to be; they'll only be disappointed.
I'll be honest, I've seen a LOT more whining from PvP players about the 'sorry state of PvP' than I have whining from PvE players getting ganked. For what it's worth, PvE players whine a LOT more about the 'sorry state of PvE' than they whine about getting ganked too.
Low level/new players getting killed just isn't that big a deal in most games. On the 'WoW'* side you just can't do it. On the Eve side, you should realize it's probably going to happen, or find a safe zone if they exist.
Killing a low level/new player in any game is pretty much a d-bag move and hurts the game a lot more than it hurts the new player.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Do you mean open world PvP involvement in terms of the PvP specific zones in WoW, like Wintergrasp?
If you do, then that's not exactly "world PvP". That's "a section of the world sectioned off and dedicated to PvP". It would be just like saying LoTRO has world PvP because the Ettenmoors is a PvP specific zone.
True world PvP is in a MMO like Lineage 2, Darkfall, etc.. where players can attack or be attacked just about anywhere.
WoW is not a true open world PvP MMO. Not by a long shot.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Ganking is nothing short of harrassment, no excuse for it full stop. I'v never ganked nor been ganked, I dont see how a lvl 60, 70, 80 or whatever, going to a low level area and start killing lvl 5's 10's etc is fun, its no more fun than killing low level npc's, all your doing is stopping new players or new characters from learning or achieving any advancement into the game, those players will just give up and find something else. I believe ganking had a negative effect on Darkfall where players got together and started ganking low levels where it had that much negative effect the devs had to step in to stop it. Unfortunately some gamers need to grow up. a lot.
People quickly forget that you have established online grief guilds whose only aim to to ruin the experience of players enough for it to have a knock on effect to sub numbers, using any means from hacks to exploits as well. No griefing of newbies is needed, legit PK will just have to move to the middle game and up to do their thing. Such is the reality. Even DF caved to having newbie protection for a time as the realization of grief guilds able to affect new player subs set in. Some people cater to their more primitive tribal instinct, and these tribes are just out right hostile in temperament, genetics I guess.
It makes little sense to me though why they sabotage their own prey base. Why do they scare away the new players thereby making it less likely for them to stay and provide them with targets.
Nothing. Only idiots gank newbs. It also ruins the spirit of the atmosphere of a game and turns players off.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Because their prey base levels and then it becomes a little harder to kill said prey base.
And we all know ganking newbs is done by hardcore,badass pvp'ers. /sarcasm off
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
Just out of curiosity I wonder how many of the people commenting in this thread have ever actually played mmos (for more than a small amount of time) that have the rulesets in place to allow for ganking.
That is not being used as some sort of veiled stick to beat the anti ganking crowd with btw, I am just curious as to why people who have spent little to zero time in games with certain mechanics are so vocal about said mechanics. When the majority of those that actually play the games, if they get ganked, just get on with it.
I am against the continual ganking of newbs btw. Although not anti ffa.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I agree with you to the extent that I don't believe WoW would have the subscriber base if not for the immense amount of development time that has been put into PvP. If not for PvP, WoW sub numbers would fluctuate to a much MUCH higher degree.
Also, you can't even claim that WoW is popular because it's PvE. You CAN claim they are popular because they found a HUGE and untapped market along with a massive fan base which pushed the hype so high I had the munchies. It was brilliantly packaged onto a foundation of a smooth and intuitive interface that allowed anyone from age 5 to 80 to play it with ease after 24 hours. The original quest lines and interaction between the player and NPC's were fun and inventive. They all but removed the grind in relation to the other MMO's of that generation. Sure, it had growing pains and bugs but all in all, one of the best and smoothest realeases to date, save my exp with Rift launch, and it earned them the top spot from release to present.
When the game was released it was backed up by some of the richest and oldest lore in the modern gaming industry coupled with a highly renouned gaming producer.
In shorty, stating WoW is popular because of PvE would be as incorrect as stating it would be dead without PvP. It's a game that is the prime example of what happens when you put your heart and soul into a game and caress it with loving care.
This is my opinion so please try not to crucify me but WoW was successful because it gave people the way to PvP for fun and not worry about merciless ganking. It allowed for people like me a housewife with absolutely no aspiration in all my MMO days to PvP until trying it out in Hillsbrad/Tarren Mills and then the bgs. It gave me the chance to experience something I would never have tried on a FFA game ,simply because I would never have played a FFA game. Imagine for a moment how many people out there are like me. That is why the PvP flourished in WoW.
Nobody can crucify anyone for stating how good WoW was/is. All you really have to do is bring up the 10+ million reasons why.
Let it be known that I have played Wow, from Vanilla to Cata until I stopped because I hate how the game development has gone. So, while I despise the game now, I'd be a hypocrite if I stated the game was trash.
Well of course making something more casual and thus more accessible to more people is going to see something be more popular. I think anyone is going to acknowledge that fact, although "accessibility and ease" does not immediately mean "quality", or lack of it.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."