Yes, the fatigue is setting in for most players, myself included. I have the CE ordered, and will stay that way no matter the release date, but, I'm getting tired of the wait with mere scraps of info being leaked. The main problem I see is Bioware and EA's handling of their PR and release of info. We're supposedly not far from release, yet we are still not very well informed of the game, beta weekends have been cancelled indefintely, and still no release date listed, with a pushback to 2012 "not off the table".
At this point, they need to be prioritizing getting the game released while the hype level is still high. As MMO players, we expect there to be bugs at launch, and that they can get handled pretty quickly once the game is launched, so there is less development time and more fix time. They have a LOT of great looking games coming out this holiday to compete with, so they need to capitalize on the hype level while it's high.
I could care less if it takes another 3 years. My life won t end because it s not released or possibly releasing soon. I m still hyped for it, as I am for Skyrim, GW2, BF3, Sorcery(PS3), PS2, and still enjoying eq2, which soon has another x pac coming. In the end they re all going to come out eventually, so when they do great, but until then I have enough to keep me busy, in and out of real life.
Yes, the fatigue is setting in for most players, myself included.
Agreed. If it weren't for the dilligent trolling from certain fans of other games, I think the TOR forum would grow spooky quiet.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
So, in support of my personal excitement terminology shift, fast-forward to today, shallow whack-a-mole asian online games show up like cockroaches in the mmorpg market, Diablo 3, a single player lobby-system action rpg is considered a massively multiplayer online role-playing game, the term Massively as devolved into meaning 100’s of players having access to the same chat channel simultaneously, rather than gaming, cooperating or competing in the same persistent world simultaneously, not to mention there is nothing organic or persistent about the worlds other than their lobby-esque existence.
So all this nonsense begs the question, aren’t you really looking forward to the next single-player lobby-system heavily sharded and instanced cooperative multiplayer online game?
My first MMORPG, even before playing an UO which I tried later on, was EQ. It didn't have an organic changing world, it was separated into zones in contrast to a LotrO or WoW. Yet it didn't feel like less of an MMORPG to me, I went back to it this year when the progression servers opened up, and again I had that exact same feeling.
When I played AoC, even if it was separated into zones/instances, it didn't feel like not being an MMORPG, there were people everywhere I went, from the wildly raging PvP in areas like White Sands and Kheshatta, to a lot of people traveling and roaming around in city areas like Tarantia and Khemi, all this time the game never felt like a single-player lobby-system game but a full MMORPG, a fact that I was reminded of constantly when I traveled through the open world areas and had to be alert because of the constant chance of getting ganked and attacked by other players, something that doesn't happen in singleplayer games.
So no, they're all MMORPG's to me, just different ones, but then again, I don't consider only sandbox type MMO's to be MMORPG's, I guess it's all a matter of someone's personal perspective.
As for the hype, personally I think it's better when hype and expectations come closer to down-to-earth expectations but that's me. I'm pretty sure that when a release date is announced and it's only a little more time waiting, that people's personal excitement will flare up in their anticipation for the game to be released. That is, the people for whom SWTOR is a game they want to play, of course.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Thanks Bill for the article. It made me feel less alone in my feeling here, teh. ;-)
I mean, what a ride these three years were. THREE YEARS. Whoa. There were so many times when we thought, how would be close to release. I recall Bioware was speculating about a summer 2010 window sometimes. Or so rumor was spread back then. Then for a spring 2011 release. Then autumn 2011. Now spring 2012 some EA folks say. I mean, I won't yell vaporware, but it is very difficult to follow something that is continually delayed again and again. And the WEIRDEST thing is: you can preorder the game and STILL they say "we can't talk about this" and they don't even have a frigging release date.
This, and *some other* things just tell me that Bioware got quite lofty and away from the average player. I have this strong feeling they just lost connection to us "normal folks" down here, and all this PR and suit-talk took over. I mean... well look at the history of EA. The bought dozens of small companies, milked them dry and then absorbed them. What mades EA "great"? Sims and FIFA with 2351 expansions and EA shop goodies to by for bucks. Cheap mainstream mass ware with maximum of item selling profit margins. EVERY SINGLE creative studio thing was destroyed. Now Bioware remains, but how long. And we can SEE the mainstream massification in Bioware single player RPGs already. ENDLESS DLC shop stuff, just like with Sims! Now you can even buy armor pieces for Dragon Age. ARMOUR PIECES! In an online shop! For a friggin single player RPG!
All this makes me wonder where this is heading. Yes, I am still excited. Yes I know playing the stories will be fun. But so much always breathed mediocrity in SWTOR, no matter how many times fans deny this, it is just what I see here. Yes, it will be fun, but it is SO MUCH less than a Star Wars MMO COULD and SHOULD have been. So much less ANY MMO in 2012 SHOULD be! In every single aspect they went the save way, they walked the path of the known and proven. And sorry, for a AAA title this is too less visionary. And if the no doubt cool stories really can turn it all over... I guess we have to see.
I am just tired of "we can't talk about this" and all that after so many years, it is just silly. And then with so many issues still on the mysterious "wall of thing to come in the future", I am definitely waiting after release. Some of these must come before I am going to sub this game anyway. And as you said, with so many cool games coming in holiday season 2011, I have a plethora of games higher on my list now. Skyrim, Arkham City, ANNO 2070, to name just a few. And these three alone can keep me busy for months, months Bye O'Ware can proof they really add promised features. The reality is, in the last years every day one gamer of a MMO has been fooled. People who start later always get a more polished and complete experience. The first 2-3 months are usualy paid beta anyway.
Over and out.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
People who start later always get a more polished and complete experience. The first 2-3 months are usualy paid beta anyway.
Over and out.
Shrug. Didn't feel like paid beta when I played WoW, LotrO, Aion, GW and Rift the first few months when they launched. Nor do I expect SWTOR to be any less polished.
But hey, you're entitled to your waiting around of course and even avoiding the game for months after launch until you feel the features you're looking for are ingame, to each their own
As for SWTOR's features, pretty much all the features they have talked about right now, only on the times they wanted to talk about them, not when you were clamoring for them, but over the course of time all the things people were whining about that BW wasn't talking about have been talked about and/or shown in gameplay this past year. Except for a more detailed elaboration of the open world PvP aspects and a release date, but even regarding the release date they have stated several times the past few months that they'd base their release date upon the outcome of the stress test beta sessions, which haven't finished yet.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
People who start later always get a more polished and complete experience. The first 2-3 months are usualy paid beta anyway.
Over and out.
Shrug. Didn't feel like paid beta when I played WoW, LotrO, Aion, GW and Rift the first few months when they launched. Nor do I expect SWTOR to be any less polished.
But hey, you're entitled to your waiting around of course and even avoiding the game for months after launch until you feel the features you're looking for are ingame, to each their own
Sometimes it's the many small things which matter. And many are usually added after a few months, also balancing asf. I never could shake the feeling of being a guinnipig having been a first day gamer in virtually every MMO of the last years. AoC, WAR, VG, TR, Aion. Heck, it took them often a YEAR to be really well rounded. There is only one downside to come later. I usually sit 30+ minutes with this message over and over:
NAME TAKEN
NAME TAKEN
NAME TAKEN
... *throws keyboard out of the window*
Esp. with TOR having no surnames, as it seems. >.<
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Im not fatigued as more annoyed. I can understand why they wont give a release date as they want the game as bug-free as possible.
***Darth Rabbid engages Darth malgus in plunger to lightsaber combat! Darth malgus is defeated as the plunger is mightier than the lightsaber!****
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Sometimes it's the many small things which matter. And many are usually added after a few months, also balancing asf. I never could shake the feeling of being a guinnipig having been a first day gamer in virtually every MMO of the last years. AoC, WAR, VG, TR, Aion. Heck, it took them often a YEAR to be really well rounded.
To me, the excitement and rush of the "first few weeks" of a new MMO is a magical, once in a life time experience that I would not want to miss out on - so that trumps any rough edges the game might have at release.
Shrug. Didn't feel like paid beta when I played WoW, LotrO, Aion, GW and Rift the first few months when they launched. Nor do I expect SWTOR to be any less polished.
WoW's first few months were actually a pretty painful experience (not too bad when the servers were actually up). The rest of the games you mentioned had pretty smooth starts though.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Sometimes it's the many small things which matter. And many are usually added after a few months, also balancing asf. I never could shake the feeling of being a guinnipig having been a first day gamer in virtually every MMO of the last years.
For some MMO's like AoC or VG or TR, maybe, but for other MMO's like LotrO, Aion and Rift I definitely disagree. The fact that they didn't finish with all those little handy things that were added over the years after their launch, doesn't mean that those MMO's didn't launch as a fully fledged MMORPG, those games certainly didn't launch with the feel of a beta.
Besides, MMO's are never really finished but always added and tweaked upon even years after their launch.
Originally posted by Icewhite
WoW's first few months were actually a pretty painful experience (not too bad when the servers were actually up). The rest of the games you mentioned had pretty smooth starts though.
That wasn't so much because the game was a bug and crashfest due to instability of the flaky coding, like for example AoC and SWG or VG at launch could have those moments. WoW's gameplay was smooth and fairly bug free especially compared with other MMO's right from the start.
IIRC a lot of the problems arose from the huge influx of gamers that filled the servers up to bursting and beyond.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I do not understand this naming thing. Even in a game I am late for I generally never get the message the name is taken. Probably because I do not use popular names. If you desire a popular name that is like a fantasy novel one or a Star Wars sound alike you might have that problem.
I have a shiny fat big 8 quid/15 dollars sitting in my piggy bank for a game worth the sub. Sadly I dont think a game where: being shot in the face 10 times with molten hot laser bolts has no effect on your fleshy mug; Consulars repeatedly pull the same identical ship engine out of the ground to bash peoples faces in or npcs can be clobbered over and over on the noggin with promethian lightsabres that have been presented from childhood to cut through reinforced ship hulls with little effort is not going to be it.
I'm fatigued. Tired of waiting. I think the big issue this year is the huge slow down on MMOs releasing. While the last few years haven't seen stellar releases, they at least kept me busy. While Rift was the only one worthwhile and even that is too small of a game to keep me longer than 6 months. I think if I had a new MMO to play to hold me over I wouldn't feel any fatigue at all.
Matter of fact, the developers of Tera have shot themselves in the foot on this one with a missed opportunity to fill the last few months before SWTOR and GW2 hit. It would have been the perfect game to hold me over and later down the road something to step back into. At this point though, they'll be lucky if I ever "try" their game.
Also, on a side note, I really hope this won't be par for the course come post launch content. It's bad enough Blizzard has strung us along all these years with their ultra long development time on content patches, Bioware better not copy that bad habit. I point at Trion as the company to mimick or take notes from.
I have a shiny fat big 8 quid/15 dollars sitting in my piggy bank for a game worth the sub. Sadly I dont think a game where: being shot in the face 10 times with molten hot laser bolts has no effect on your fleshy mug; Consulars repeatedly pull the same identical ship engine out of the ground to bash peoples faces in or npcs can be clobbered over and over on the noggin with promethian lightsabres that have been presented from childhood to cut through reinforced ship hulls with little effort is not going to be it.
Have you actually stopped and thought about how BAD of a MMORPG it would make to have all those things realistic in the game?
Set a release date - Fail to meet release date - move date back = community upset
Set a release date - Launch - game not up to standards (it will never meet this community's expectations) = community upset
Don't set a release date - game launches well = community upset (because it took too long)
Don't set a release date - game launches poorly = community upset (because it wasn't finished)
-----
Point is, Bioware cannot win. So Bioware does what they need too - launch when its ready. People will still play it and nothing will change that. People, I do not think, are not running out canceling their pre-orders.
At this point, the game better launch well or their will be a lot of anger and rightfully so. Most people will tolerate the time it takes to release the game if it releases well. if not, it could get ugly for sure.
The only problem here is that at some point EA will step in and say "release it" whether ready or not. EA's track record in doing just that is well documented with buggy and half finished games that failed terribly. I am sure the folks at BW want to "release when its ready" but EA may not...no...won't allow it.
The only problem here is that at some point EA will step in and say "release it" whether ready or not. EA's track record in doing just that is well documented with buggy and half finished games that failed terribly. I am sure the folks at BW want to "release when its ready" but EA may not...no...won't allow it.
I guess then you have to hope that EA learned their lesson from WAR.
They started pre-orders at midnight pacific time because of a show they were at. I'm sure people that visit this site or sites like it knew because of the "leaks". The vast majority of people probably don't come to forums like this and wake up to find that pre-orders started while they were asleep and they had no idea...
As I said that doesn't affect people like us who come to a site like this. However, it does piss off people who don't...
They shouldn't have started those pre-orders until they had a release date to announce. Retailers letting you pre-order is a different thing than "official pre-orders".
Add in the wait...
Then they announce September beta weekends.. which was their choice to do so. This of course gets a bunch of people (who aren't in beta) excited. So they bring in a relatively small batch (dev post on official site more or less called it a small batch) on Sept 2nd..
So the following week they talk about how well the beta weekend went and how positive the feedback was on it.
Followed by "Oh by the way Euro's we are delaying your beta invites because we have a new build" and then... *drum roll* as was obviously coming... "beta weekends are on hold because of the new build"
Followed by: "We are going to re-invite the Sept 2nd beta weekend people because their weekend wasn't optimal.." <- Um what? After that weekend you said how smooth it went and how positive the feedback was.. somehow these things do not mesh together to form logic.
So now its Sept 21st and as far as I'm aware no official announcement on anything... So outside of an announcement today and a test this weekend.. September was "beta weekend"
Now the important thing here is they said the beta weekends were mostly to help them simulate a "launch condition" in other words heavily populated newb zones... they need to have that done in order to launch.
Add in the wait again...
people who pre-ordered and how that was handled..
More or less really for a while there haven't been "new" announcements... just rehashes of the same announcements
Obviously something went wrong around Sept 2nd
Obviously they knew they had a "new build" coming but started beta weekends anyway.
To me the wait like everything else is a path of decisions that BioWare has made. It seems like there is a lack of actual leadership and/or communication within the company. I gotta say at this point I didn't stick with Rift very long.. but Rift was Trion's "first MMO" as much as TOR can be BioWares first MMO... official pre-orders for Rift I think started about 3 months before release... and there just seemed to be a lot more communication and progress.. even if the game was lacking various things (my opinion) it was very smooth.
TOR's biggest issue from my perspecitve.. as I said.. is BioWare and they way they have handled things.
If nothing else:
1) Pre-Orders going "live" should have been made much more public so the vast majority of potential customers knew to camp the pre-order page.
2) Pre-Orders should not have started until they had a firm internal launch date of more or less 3 months from official pre-order start.
3) Beta Weekends should not have been announced until they could run more than 1 in a 30 day period (they might get 2 but magic 8 ball seems to think its unlikely). Unlike us they had to kinow there was a major new build about to go to testing etc
4) They have handled their European customers very badly (along with many other regions). They should have had firm agreements in place so that they could support more areas when pre-orders were announced. Even hollywood has figured out the concept of "world wide release" these days. Euro market is likely larger than NA market.. among other things.
5) They keep hinting at a delay which most likely the game needs.. just announce the delay. Beyond that if the game is released and shouldn't have been it won't be EA or the "fans" it will be the stockholders saying.. "dudes you have spent almost a billion dollars to buy this company and however, many more tens of millions on development.. and all this money was ours that we let you borrow.. time to start paying it back."
most of this list isn't anything that affects *me* I just think it all adds up to ... meh
The only problem here is that at some point EA will step in and say "release it" whether ready or not. EA's track record in doing just that is well documented with buggy and half finished games that failed terribly. I am sure the folks at BW want to "release when its ready" but EA may not...no...won't allow it.
True, but it's also possible that they learned something from the debacles at Funcom and Mythic.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I've been watching people bitch on this site about titles being rushed out before they were ready for the last few years here, and here finally a company wants to take it's time and do things right and you're STILL bitching????
There's no pleasing you guys!!!
SWTOR can take as long as it NEEDS to come out.....I look foreward to a well-rounded, polished, content-laden product.
Set a release date - Fail to meet release date - move date back = community upset
Set a release date - Launch - game not up to standards (it will never meet this community's expectations) = community upset
Don't set a release date - game launches well = community upset (because it took too long)
Don't set a release date - game launches poorly = community upset (because it wasn't finished)
-----
Point is, Bioware cannot win. So Bioware does what they need too - launch when its ready. People will still play it and nothing will change that. People, I do not think, are not running out canceling their pre-orders.
At this point, the game better launch well or their will be a lot of anger and rightfully so. Most people will tolerate the time it takes to release the game if it releases well. if not, it could get ugly for sure.
The only problem here is that at some point EA will step in and say "release it" whether ready or not. EA's track record in doing just that is well documented with buggy and half finished games that failed terribly. I am sure the folks at BW want to "release when its ready" but EA may not...no...won't allow it.
*cough* Ultima IX *cough*
Oh the pain still hurts!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Why are there so many people needing the game to be released now. If it needs more time to be a good, polished product, let it be. I get the feeling you re also the ones that will rush to end game and bitch you re bored. Patience is a great thing.
Pretty sure EA pushed this pre-order and Bioware ain't quite ready. Now you're all left hanging.
Nutshell they spoke to soon, i wouldn't be surprised if it's pushed to next year, maybe holiday next year. Errr ya what am i thinking EA is involved, prolly be next week and you can all beta test it while PAYING for the next year!!! These are the AWESOME IDEA's EA comes up with. Stupid me for thinking they'd do the proper thing. lol
The only problem here is that at some point EA will step in and say "release it" whether ready or not. EA's track record in doing just that is well documented with buggy and half finished games that failed terribly. I am sure the folks at BW want to "release when its ready" but EA may not...no...won't allow it.
*cough* Ultima IX *cough*
Oh the pain still hurts!
And UO2, UXO... oh what could have been...
Point is - you have to ask yourself if you believe whether or not EA has learned their lesson from these obvious failures/impatience, the biggest one being their pushing WAR out the door way, way too early.
I think they have, I honestly think EA has learned their lesson and will let Bioware decide when this game is ready to release.
Might suck for us, but in the end it'll such a LOT less then a bad game.
most of this list isn't anything that affects *me* I just think it all adds up to ... meh
Well said. It just shows a severe lack of professionalism here, alas. In August 2011 they said Sept. is going to be a big beta for many. I guess that failed.
I wish I had this Vader voice. "Don't fail me again, Admiral!"
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
Yes, the fatigue is setting in for most players, myself included. I have the CE ordered, and will stay that way no matter the release date, but, I'm getting tired of the wait with mere scraps of info being leaked. The main problem I see is Bioware and EA's handling of their PR and release of info. We're supposedly not far from release, yet we are still not very well informed of the game, beta weekends have been cancelled indefintely, and still no release date listed, with a pushback to 2012 "not off the table".
At this point, they need to be prioritizing getting the game released while the hype level is still high. As MMO players, we expect there to be bugs at launch, and that they can get handled pretty quickly once the game is launched, so there is less development time and more fix time. They have a LOT of great looking games coming out this holiday to compete with, so they need to capitalize on the hype level while it's high.
I could care less if it takes another 3 years. My life won t end because it s not released or possibly releasing soon. I m still hyped for it, as I am for Skyrim, GW2, BF3, Sorcery(PS3), PS2, and still enjoying eq2, which soon has another x pac coming. In the end they re all going to come out eventually, so when they do great, but until then I have enough to keep me busy, in and out of real life.
Agreed. If it weren't for the dilligent trolling from certain fans of other games, I think the TOR forum would grow spooky quiet.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
My first MMORPG, even before playing an UO which I tried later on, was EQ. It didn't have an organic changing world, it was separated into zones in contrast to a LotrO or WoW. Yet it didn't feel like less of an MMORPG to me, I went back to it this year when the progression servers opened up, and again I had that exact same feeling.
When I played AoC, even if it was separated into zones/instances, it didn't feel like not being an MMORPG, there were people everywhere I went, from the wildly raging PvP in areas like White Sands and Kheshatta, to a lot of people traveling and roaming around in city areas like Tarantia and Khemi, all this time the game never felt like a single-player lobby-system game but a full MMORPG, a fact that I was reminded of constantly when I traveled through the open world areas and had to be alert because of the constant chance of getting ganked and attacked by other players, something that doesn't happen in singleplayer games.
So no, they're all MMORPG's to me, just different ones, but then again, I don't consider only sandbox type MMO's to be MMORPG's, I guess it's all a matter of someone's personal perspective.
As for the hype, personally I think it's better when hype and expectations come closer to down-to-earth expectations but that's me. I'm pretty sure that when a release date is announced and it's only a little more time waiting, that people's personal excitement will flare up in their anticipation for the game to be released. That is, the people for whom SWTOR is a game they want to play, of course.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Thanks Bill for the article. It made me feel less alone in my feeling here, teh. ;-)
I mean, what a ride these three years were. THREE YEARS. Whoa. There were so many times when we thought, how would be close to release. I recall Bioware was speculating about a summer 2010 window sometimes. Or so rumor was spread back then. Then for a spring 2011 release. Then autumn 2011. Now spring 2012 some EA folks say. I mean, I won't yell vaporware, but it is very difficult to follow something that is continually delayed again and again. And the WEIRDEST thing is: you can preorder the game and STILL they say "we can't talk about this" and they don't even have a frigging release date.
This, and *some other* things just tell me that Bioware got quite lofty and away from the average player. I have this strong feeling they just lost connection to us "normal folks" down here, and all this PR and suit-talk took over. I mean... well look at the history of EA. The bought dozens of small companies, milked them dry and then absorbed them. What mades EA "great"? Sims and FIFA with 2351 expansions and EA shop goodies to by for bucks. Cheap mainstream mass ware with maximum of item selling profit margins. EVERY SINGLE creative studio thing was destroyed. Now Bioware remains, but how long. And we can SEE the mainstream massification in Bioware single player RPGs already. ENDLESS DLC shop stuff, just like with Sims! Now you can even buy armor pieces for Dragon Age. ARMOUR PIECES! In an online shop! For a friggin single player RPG!
All this makes me wonder where this is heading. Yes, I am still excited. Yes I know playing the stories will be fun. But so much always breathed mediocrity in SWTOR, no matter how many times fans deny this, it is just what I see here. Yes, it will be fun, but it is SO MUCH less than a Star Wars MMO COULD and SHOULD have been. So much less ANY MMO in 2012 SHOULD be! In every single aspect they went the save way, they walked the path of the known and proven. And sorry, for a AAA title this is too less visionary. And if the no doubt cool stories really can turn it all over... I guess we have to see.
I am just tired of "we can't talk about this" and all that after so many years, it is just silly. And then with so many issues still on the mysterious "wall of thing to come in the future", I am definitely waiting after release. Some of these must come before I am going to sub this game anyway. And as you said, with so many cool games coming in holiday season 2011, I have a plethora of games higher on my list now. Skyrim, Arkham City, ANNO 2070, to name just a few. And these three alone can keep me busy for months, months Bye O'Ware can proof they really add promised features. The reality is, in the last years every day one gamer of a MMO has been fooled. People who start later always get a more polished and complete experience. The first 2-3 months are usualy paid beta anyway.
Over and out.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Shrug. Didn't feel like paid beta when I played WoW, LotrO, Aion, GW and Rift the first few months when they launched. Nor do I expect SWTOR to be any less polished.
But hey, you're entitled to your waiting around of course and even avoiding the game for months after launch until you feel the features you're looking for are ingame, to each their own
As for SWTOR's features, pretty much all the features they have talked about right now, only on the times they wanted to talk about them, not when you were clamoring for them, but over the course of time all the things people were whining about that BW wasn't talking about have been talked about and/or shown in gameplay this past year. Except for a more detailed elaboration of the open world PvP aspects and a release date, but even regarding the release date they have stated several times the past few months that they'd base their release date upon the outcome of the stress test beta sessions, which haven't finished yet.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Sometimes it's the many small things which matter. And many are usually added after a few months, also balancing asf. I never could shake the feeling of being a guinnipig having been a first day gamer in virtually every MMO of the last years. AoC, WAR, VG, TR, Aion. Heck, it took them often a YEAR to be really well rounded. There is only one downside to come later. I usually sit 30+ minutes with this message over and over:
NAME TAKEN
NAME TAKEN
NAME TAKEN
... *throws keyboard out of the window*
Esp. with TOR having no surnames, as it seems. >.<
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Im not fatigued as more annoyed. I can understand why they wont give a release date as they want the game as bug-free as possible.
***Darth Rabbid engages Darth malgus in plunger to lightsaber combat! Darth malgus is defeated as the plunger is mightier than the lightsaber!****
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
To me, the excitement and rush of the "first few weeks" of a new MMO is a magical, once in a life time experience that I would not want to miss out on - so that trumps any rough edges the game might have at release.
WoW's first few months were actually a pretty painful experience (not too bad when the servers were actually up). The rest of the games you mentioned had pretty smooth starts though.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
For some MMO's like AoC or VG or TR, maybe, but for other MMO's like LotrO, Aion and Rift I definitely disagree. The fact that they didn't finish with all those little handy things that were added over the years after their launch, doesn't mean that those MMO's didn't launch as a fully fledged MMORPG, those games certainly didn't launch with the feel of a beta.
Besides, MMO's are never really finished but always added and tweaked upon even years after their launch.
That wasn't so much because the game was a bug and crashfest due to instability of the flaky coding, like for example AoC and SWG or VG at launch could have those moments. WoW's gameplay was smooth and fairly bug free especially compared with other MMO's right from the start.
IIRC a lot of the problems arose from the huge influx of gamers that filled the servers up to bursting and beyond.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I do not understand this naming thing. Even in a game I am late for I generally never get the message the name is taken. Probably because I do not use popular names. If you desire a popular name that is like a fantasy novel one or a Star Wars sound alike you might have that problem.
I have a shiny fat big 8 quid/15 dollars sitting in my piggy bank for a game worth the sub. Sadly I dont think a game where: being shot in the face 10 times with molten hot laser bolts has no effect on your fleshy mug; Consulars repeatedly pull the same identical ship engine out of the ground to bash peoples faces in or npcs can be clobbered over and over on the noggin with promethian lightsabres that have been presented from childhood to cut through reinforced ship hulls with little effort is not going to be it.
I'm fatigued. Tired of waiting. I think the big issue this year is the huge slow down on MMOs releasing. While the last few years haven't seen stellar releases, they at least kept me busy. While Rift was the only one worthwhile and even that is too small of a game to keep me longer than 6 months. I think if I had a new MMO to play to hold me over I wouldn't feel any fatigue at all.
Matter of fact, the developers of Tera have shot themselves in the foot on this one with a missed opportunity to fill the last few months before SWTOR and GW2 hit. It would have been the perfect game to hold me over and later down the road something to step back into. At this point though, they'll be lucky if I ever "try" their game.
Also, on a side note, I really hope this won't be par for the course come post launch content. It's bad enough Blizzard has strung us along all these years with their ultra long development time on content patches, Bioware better not copy that bad habit. I point at Trion as the company to mimick or take notes from.
Have you actually stopped and thought about how BAD of a MMORPG it would make to have all those things realistic in the game?
The only problem here is that at some point EA will step in and say "release it" whether ready or not. EA's track record in doing just that is well documented with buggy and half finished games that failed terribly. I am sure the folks at BW want to "release when its ready" but EA may not...no...won't allow it.
Let's party like it is 1863!
I guess then you have to hope that EA learned their lesson from WAR.
I think they have.
To me its not just the "wait".
They started pre-orders at midnight pacific time because of a show they were at. I'm sure people that visit this site or sites like it knew because of the "leaks". The vast majority of people probably don't come to forums like this and wake up to find that pre-orders started while they were asleep and they had no idea...
As I said that doesn't affect people like us who come to a site like this. However, it does piss off people who don't...
They shouldn't have started those pre-orders until they had a release date to announce. Retailers letting you pre-order is a different thing than "official pre-orders".
Add in the wait...
Then they announce September beta weekends.. which was their choice to do so. This of course gets a bunch of people (who aren't in beta) excited. So they bring in a relatively small batch (dev post on official site more or less called it a small batch) on Sept 2nd..
So the following week they talk about how well the beta weekend went and how positive the feedback was on it.
Followed by "Oh by the way Euro's we are delaying your beta invites because we have a new build" and then... *drum roll* as was obviously coming... "beta weekends are on hold because of the new build"
Followed by: "We are going to re-invite the Sept 2nd beta weekend people because their weekend wasn't optimal.." <- Um what? After that weekend you said how smooth it went and how positive the feedback was.. somehow these things do not mesh together to form logic.
So now its Sept 21st and as far as I'm aware no official announcement on anything... So outside of an announcement today and a test this weekend.. September was "beta weekend"
Now the important thing here is they said the beta weekends were mostly to help them simulate a "launch condition" in other words heavily populated newb zones... they need to have that done in order to launch.
Add in the wait again...
people who pre-ordered and how that was handled..
More or less really for a while there haven't been "new" announcements... just rehashes of the same announcements
Obviously something went wrong around Sept 2nd
Obviously they knew they had a "new build" coming but started beta weekends anyway.
To me the wait like everything else is a path of decisions that BioWare has made. It seems like there is a lack of actual leadership and/or communication within the company. I gotta say at this point I didn't stick with Rift very long.. but Rift was Trion's "first MMO" as much as TOR can be BioWares first MMO... official pre-orders for Rift I think started about 3 months before release... and there just seemed to be a lot more communication and progress.. even if the game was lacking various things (my opinion) it was very smooth.
TOR's biggest issue from my perspecitve.. as I said.. is BioWare and they way they have handled things.
If nothing else:
1) Pre-Orders going "live" should have been made much more public so the vast majority of potential customers knew to camp the pre-order page.
2) Pre-Orders should not have started until they had a firm internal launch date of more or less 3 months from official pre-order start.
3) Beta Weekends should not have been announced until they could run more than 1 in a 30 day period (they might get 2 but magic 8 ball seems to think its unlikely). Unlike us they had to kinow there was a major new build about to go to testing etc
4) They have handled their European customers very badly (along with many other regions). They should have had firm agreements in place so that they could support more areas when pre-orders were announced. Even hollywood has figured out the concept of "world wide release" these days. Euro market is likely larger than NA market.. among other things.
5) They keep hinting at a delay which most likely the game needs.. just announce the delay. Beyond that if the game is released and shouldn't have been it won't be EA or the "fans" it will be the stockholders saying.. "dudes you have spent almost a billion dollars to buy this company and however, many more tens of millions on development.. and all this money was ours that we let you borrow.. time to start paying it back."
most of this list isn't anything that affects *me* I just think it all adds up to ... meh
True, but it's also possible that they learned something from the debacles at Funcom and Mythic.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I've been watching people bitch on this site about titles being rushed out before they were ready for the last few years here, and here finally a company wants to take it's time and do things right and you're STILL bitching????
There's no pleasing you guys!!!
SWTOR can take as long as it NEEDS to come out.....I look foreward to a well-rounded, polished, content-laden product.
*cough* Ultima IX *cough*
Oh the pain still hurts!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Why are there so many people needing the game to be released now. If it needs more time to be a good, polished product, let it be. I get the feeling you re also the ones that will rush to end game and bitch you re bored. Patience is a great thing.
EA GREED folks, EA GREED. Get used to this.
Pretty sure EA pushed this pre-order and Bioware ain't quite ready. Now you're all left hanging.
Nutshell they spoke to soon, i wouldn't be surprised if it's pushed to next year, maybe holiday next year. Errr ya what am i thinking EA is involved, prolly be next week and you can all beta test it while PAYING for the next year!!! These are the AWESOME IDEA's EA comes up with. Stupid me for thinking they'd do the proper thing. lol
And UO2, UXO... oh what could have been...
Point is - you have to ask yourself if you believe whether or not EA has learned their lesson from these obvious failures/impatience, the biggest one being their pushing WAR out the door way, way too early.
I think they have, I honestly think EA has learned their lesson and will let Bioware decide when this game is ready to release.
Might suck for us, but in the end it'll such a LOT less then a bad game.
Well said. It just shows a severe lack of professionalism here, alas. In August 2011 they said Sept. is going to be a big beta for many. I guess that failed.
I wish I had this Vader voice. "Don't fail me again, Admiral!"
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert