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You can't have Space Wolves in this game because they already said every space marine is Black Templar. You can't have guilds...but you can have "Company" size units. Your list is crap
What's most interesting about this thread is the passion the fans have for their favorite elements of the I.P. Vigil would be well served to embrace (or at least recognize) that as development continues.
Warhammer fanatic since '85.
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk 3 or more factions without that the rest doesn't matter one bit
I know the author put this in number 4 and not even as a whole point...
It is the main point. I won't be leaving SWTOR for a crappy 2 sidded faction war MMO of lesser quality.
If 40k does not offer 1 faction per playable race for a minimum of 3 factions than what the heck does it offer that SWTOR won't have?
Nevermind the fact that they'd be defacing the IP by throwing in races in the same factions.
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk Originally posted by lizardbones Originally posted by Pilnkplonk Originally posted by DrNo172000 P.S. For all those wanting more than two factions, I don't think its going to happen. Two factions is Absolutely backed by Games Workshop, the words Order and Destruction can be found in the tabletop rule book. And one only has to look at the global tabletop campaigns to see that GW themselves organizes their armies in this way. Against the lore yes, annoying yes, just doubt it will change so just brace yourselves.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by lizardbones I talked my grandmother into taking me to see Star Wars 23 times. I had the soundtrack on an 8 track tape. I don't think SW:ToR is going to be anything at all like what I think Star Wars should be like. That doesn't mean it can't be a good game in its own right...it's just not going to be my vision of the game. I realize that there is what the game is, and then what I think it should be. It works a lot better to see the game for what it is and evaluate it on those terms. Wishing for or asking for a third criminal faction (even five years ago) wouldn't get it into the game. At least for me it's a lot less frustrating that way.
Star Wars: The Old Republic is also set an enormous amount of time in the past to avoid giving the lore a good throat punch.
People aren't just angry because they think having more than two factions would be cool-beans in a W40k MMO. Nah, they're angry because the developers are going against the IP for absolutely no good reason. If it was necessary for the game to succeed to have only two factions, people wouldn't be so enraged. What would TOR be without Jedi? Nothing. That's all Star Wars is about. There is a very good reason to have a ton of Jedi running around, which bends the lore in the case of an MMO set in the same time period as the movies.
From the vantage point of the fans, it looks as though Vigil is raping the IP just because they think it'll make them more money. And considering their implication that it'll be close to WoW, if not a full-on clone, I don't blame them.
Another consideration is that people are just tired of two faction games, and this IP makes for the absolute perfect stage to build an MMO with more.
People will generally accept lore bending as long as there is a good reason for it and there isn't an easy alternative. This is not one of those cases.
Sarcasm is not a crime!
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk Originally posted by DrNo172000 P.S. For all those wanting more than two factions, I don't think its going to happen. Two factions is Absolutely backed by Games Workshop, the words Order and Destruction can be found in the tabletop rule book. And one only has to look at the global tabletop campaigns to see that GW themselves organizes their armies in this way. Against the lore yes, annoying yes, just doubt it will change so just brace yourselves.
Well there it goes. The cat's out of the bag. It was actually GW who pushed the disastrous 2-faction decision onto WAR. It always smelled fishy to me that Mythic would forego the 3-faction RvR thing which they actually pioneered to great success. I had a hunch it was the GW borg from the beginning...
Let's face it folks. GW today is not what it was in the 80s or even in the 90s. They're a dying crap franchise that preys on sentimentality and kids. Just like George Lucas. Rest in peace GW while I leaf through my 80's copies of White Dwarf and today's FF games WH40K roleplay books...
Actually, GW was never that good...
If you look at their games, their rules and their lore they make a ton of mistakes.
GW always struck me as a bunch of guys who like gaming and can think up some cool stuff - but are really just making stuff up as they went along.
The stuff they do often lacks foresight and they paint themselves into corners. They also seemed to lack an understanding of probability - it seemed to me like they would make up rules - monte carlo test them a little then release them... then realise they had made a mistake and try to fix them? I might be wrong - but that was the impression I got.
I still have the original White Dwarf where they announced the WH40K "Rogue Trader" and even when I read that back then, I spotted things that were 'wrong'. From that very first article they started limiting themselves.
See here - I love the description! LOL http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?articleid=8265
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Thumbs up to all 5..that would make one helluva 40k mmo.
#1 needs to be 3 or more factions, otherwise an ok list
Hey, whats going on in this thread? Am I late?
I do like the original 5 and agree with every single one of them, but I would make some adjustments as a retired WH40K TT player and a veteran MMO player.
5) As an MMO player: I want to start the game Faction-less.
Yes, I don't want to immediately walk into the game with bioengineered superhuman with implants or the ability to cast chaos magic off the bat. Really... start me off as a noob and then give me a tutorial that will able to sense by my actions and decisions which path I'm most suited to take and then let me make the final decision. The ability to play as any class from the start would take a huge chunk of personal lore developement out of the game for me. I don't want to be spoon fed my characters background, I want to create it myself.
4) As a WH40K player: Vehicles and vehicle customization.
If you are going to do vehicles then do all of them and do it with the option to build it the way I want to. Maybe I want a possesed predator with dual lascannons but a melta gun in the front. Give me the bonuses and the drawbacks of having to drive and take care of that tank too. What book was it...oh Storm of Iron, where the tank and vehicles had to be chained up because the demons possessing them were unstable. Maybe also the option to own and fly ships for interstellar travel? Thats whats up!
3) MMO player: Blur the faction lines and give the good players a chance to commit evil acts and cross over.
Because thats where the original CSM came from. Like the Going Rogue feature in City of X. How about an Inquisitor that practices chaos magic (Radical) rather than a puritan. By giving a player differnt option of what end of the Ordos they fall into will be better than just aesthetic changes, giving an Inquisitor an option between Ordo Heriticus, Malleus or Xenos that gives the character bonuses vs that particular type of enemy. Creating these different types of avenues in character development will open many more types of customizations and class distinctions rather than just changing the color of my armor or how many ribbons I wore.
There were assassins, but there was also 5 different types of assassins you could use. Don't pidgeonhole me out of developer laziness, this is a huge IP they bought, use every stitch of it.
2) MMO player: Hmm...on leveling, I'm going out of the box here to prove a point.
One of the things I did like about Mortal Online was the limited amount of skill points that a character had ( it was the only thing I liked about MO btw). This connects directly with the rest of my list because when a player is given an unlimited amount of skillpoints this creates a mass of characters with cookie cutter builds along the lines. If someone wants to be an Ork Choppa, they will have a certain amount of points to use in specialization, to make the best dang choppa they can make...or...make the best dang lasrifle crafter they can make. See what I did there?
This does open the doors for the flavor of the month build metagame and the min/maxers love it, but I don't want to be like every other ork in the room. The downside is, you will need to find a diversity of classes to round out your pve party/pvp group; if everyone plays the same build it will create a leverage against them. In the TT version, if your army didn't have wide area blast damage going against a tyranid or ork zerg, you were done. That was one of the first hard lessons I learned while playing WH40K.
1) Both: Two words here - Sand Box.
5. Dynamic PvE
I've written about this elsewhere, but here's the thing: PvE is a borefest grind. The term "reset the instance" should be evidence enough. Now, the obvious idea is to make an instance that changes every time you enter. The issue is, that's extremely difficult to program, and the novelty wears off once you realize you're fighting the same stuff in different spots. I'd vote in a couple instances like this, but we need more.
A different idea is to make it so all the enemies inside the instance are connected by line of sight, radio, whatever. All these enemies will fight together based on how many they think they'll need to wipe out your group. If you are in a five-man group, you might be faced with ten enemies. If you're in a hundred man group, you'll have the entire instance on you at once.
There are plenty of ideas like these to make the instance change based on circumstances, so people can have some variety to their grind. Both of these ideas would wear out fairly quick, but with these along with the generic types of instances, I imagine we'll have something more interesting.
This is all going under the assumption that we'll actually have instances. I'd love to hear an alternative, but I feel this isn't something that needs changing quite yet.
4. Constant Control
Concerning PvP, one of the ways to make PvP incredibly aggravating is to introduce too many stuns/knockdowns/fears/etc. I can stand one or two for a class, but I don't want to hear the term "stunlock" nor do I want another WAR where I could get a sandwich while waiting out the constant stuns and knockdowns. A couple are fine, but even then I'd want a way to avoid them, and they better be more creative than "Stun enemy for 5 seconds."
With that in mind, I can appreciate the merits of Crowd Control that breaks on damage. Effects like Polymorph are great as long as they aren't instant and as long as they have consequences. But even these should be used very sparingly for abilities.
3. No Levels
I've written my thoughts on levels here. A huge grind just isn't necessary, and while it seems like it is great for a time sink to keep the players playing, think about how much content they could have at max level if they didn't have all those other levels to design.
2. Equal Gear
Take any sport, and you'll find that "gear" is pretty much all equal. In any physical competitive environment, gear doesn't matter. So why should it matter in PvP, or even in PvE? If this is a gear based game, I will not be playing; simple as that. I do not want another treadmill, hamster wheel, or whatever you want to call it. I do not want to take a break for a couple weeks, come back and notice all my gear is obsolete. I want "progression" to mean skill progression, not gear progression.
As has been said too many times to count, more than two factions is the way to go. It works better for the fluff, it's something relatively new, and it works just as well if not better for balance.
We can all wish, but it seems it will be WAR in space with two factions.
R.I.P. before you're born.
for me its the factions and skills. you need to have 3 factions, my choice as someone listed above, are the eldar, chaos and the space marine chapters. for this is one of the most important parts of the game, no eldar is going to be seen anywhere near a SM. yes there is precedence but that is in a battlefield, they didnt converse and share a beer afterwards. And also for these 3 factions, the librarians/sorcerors and farseers are all at a relatively similarity in strength.
Skills are the other important factor for me. i dont want a leveling system, but skills. if you only use a bolter then your aim increases and you get better ammo etc. if you use melee weapons then you get more agile and can use swords/axes/hammers easier and more fluid. but out of all this i dont want to see the button mash for abilities. nothing is more boring than 1-2-1-2-3-1-2-1-2-3-1-2-1-2-3-6 wait for cooldown. try combo's or something like that.
this is just my opinion, and i do hope that the game works out as i would love to see a 40k mmo.
1) Make it as much fun as WH40K Space Marine is, particularly the PvP.
2) Must have a minimum of 3 factions, 2 faction limitation will result in a premature death for this game
Originally posted by Shamorau for me its the factions and skills. you need to have 3 factions, my choice as someone listed above, are the eldar, chaos and the space marine chapters. for this is one of the most important parts of the game, no eldar is going to be seen anywhere near a SM. yes there is precedence but that is in a battlefield, they didnt converse and share a beer afterwards. And also for these 3 factions, the librarians/sorcerors and farseers are all at a relatively similarity in strength. Skills are the other important factor for me. i dont want a leveling system, but skills. if you only use a bolter then your aim increases and you get better ammo etc. if you use melee weapons then you get more agile and can use swords/axes/hammers easier and more fluid. but out of all this i dont want to see the button mash for abilities. nothing is more boring than 1-2-1-2-3-1-2-1-2-3-1-2-1-2-3-6 wait for cooldown. try combo's or something like that. this is just my opinion, and i do hope that the game works out as i would love to see a 40k mmo.
Oh god no combos.
Combos are for 1v1, not MMOGs. Being stuck doing some stupid candy-ass whirly-doo in the middle of a battlefield else do poor damage? No thanks.
No instances please. I'd rather them take a page from the Original Warhammer that was adopted and improved on by Trion. I think that GW2 is going to run with that to some extent. I'd rather everything be open and out there.
Idea: You and your space marine party are marching across an alien wasteland, all of a sudden...I wild Necron Monolith appears! Gauss cannons in your face and you start fighting. In the middle of the battle, a group of ( insert enemy faction here) show up and then things get really interesting.
This is the type of dynamic pvp/pve that Trion was shooting for, however, there just isn't enough people in the zones to make it work. As what I am told.
I'm interested since I love 40k. But I highly doubt it's going to be the game I want it to be. Or the majority want it to be. I feel like it's just going to be WAR all over again.
Originally posted by grawss 1. Factions As has been said too many times to count, more than two factions is the way to go. It works better for the fluff, it's something relatively new, and it works just as well if not better for balance.
Is that why during the major events its usually split uop between order and chaos?
people need to get over the fact that sides ally in 40k, they do, there not stupid and wont refuse to work with others when it will result in there death.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Originally posted by warmaster670 Originally posted by grawss 1. Factions As has been said too many times to count, more than two factions is the way to go. It works better for the fluff, it's something relatively new, and it works just as well if not better for balance.
People need to stop with this flawed argument.
Yes, they have alliances every once in a while, but that doesn't apply here. You may not have noticed, but this is going to be an MMO game. Generally MMO games have a large social aspect to them. Now, try to apply that to the races of Warhammer 40k. If you got stuck somewhere between social aspect and Warhammer 40k, that's good; it is the proper response of a person who finally gets it.
Space Marines would never accept an Eldar "quest." They would never use Eldar weaponry, would never use Eldar technology, would never heal Eldar, and would never want to be healed by Eldar. So now that we've taken out 99% of the benefits having two factions gives us, the simple question remains: Why still have two factions?
About factions .. guess main if not only reason is for PVP scope. So, let's see .... wow or any other game have how many servers in total? Lets say .... 10 or 100? And how many PVP servers are live and living well? Check yourself, they are in very very minority. Can PVP only game become a succcess? You can only dream about. But for sure PVP-ers are incredibly vocal. Trap in which many could-be-great games fall.
I would say gaming industry should make SEPARATE PVP and PVE games. Period. Because of this so distinct worlds and mechanics that is impossible to make all happy. And all end later as a big mess and all all out complaining. For me PVP plague has ruined many could-be-great PVE games.
IMO of course, but I admit my mind could be influenced by my hate toward PVP. :-)
uhm yeah you totally forgot the other factions. The reason i won't play this is they only have TWO. Are you kidding me? 2? spsssh
Why wouldn't it work to make 9-10 war having factions? Can't they make it like Age of Conan where all 3 factions are against each other but up to the player to decide if they wanna fight them or not? In 40k you surely will have natural enemies like Space Marine vs Chaos but there been times aswell that the Space Marines fought the Imperial guards...yet they are also on the same side...it should be a option to figh them aswell yet players can allie themselfs with them. I haven't played Darkfall online much but aren't all factions kind of in war there aswell but up to the player to decide if they wanna kill those enemies or allie themselfs with them?
It can be a dev. hell in the begining but im sure if a dev takes its time for it it could work. And it would break with the ethernal "good vs bad" and alliances ammongst races that hardly make sense or put factions against each other who before had alliances aswell with each other.
About the lvling i totally agree. Remove lvles and make it skill bassed. If i use my hammer allot as space marine my hammer skills should become better instead of me going to lvl 40 as character. But it would be fun if you want to become a space marine that you really have to proof yourself and start as scout first. After all the space marines are super humans, they are really over powered so maybe they should be harder to become to keep the balance in the game. Infact i don't think you have to make them weaker or the other races stronger...just make sure you balance it like the board game. Wanna kill a space marine? Sure but as orc you would have to attack it with more then one or atleast come with the heavy weapons. Might seem unbalanced but it worked for Star Wars Galaxies aswell no? I mean before Sony raped it it was hard to become a jedi, but as jedi you where more powerful. Yet you had certain classes who where better against them then others. Same goes for warhammer, you want to be equal in strenght as a space marine? Become a chaos marine or come in numbers. Just make sure its hard to become one of them if they are over powerd so not everyone will be one.
And about the vehicles, didn't they state somewhere that all vehicles shown in the trailer where player controlled including the titan? I thought they mentioned that at a E3 sometime or in some interview.
edit: what they defenly should add is what they done in Space Marine...how they walk and make you really feel like you are some heavy super human by only walking.
I seem to remember Vigil having something about the 2 factions in the game info on DMO's website but thats not there anymore.
So they might be considering doing more than 2 factions.
Vigil has been very low on information. In 2010 they released a faction trailer and i thought we would finally get more information about the game.....but a year later they bring out a teaser trailr for the E3 2011 and all you seen where again the space marines. I only know the game is being made and that one of the playable factions are the space marines but they hardly bring out any info. Until recently i really wondered if the game was still in the making and not canceld cause i didn't heard a thing about it for over a year. Infact in this article i finally seen some more screenshots then the few they have been showing over the years.
I can understand they don't want to reveal much yet and maybe they do it on purpose to keep track of what the fans want and insert that and make sure they don't screw it up before they start selling the game.
Btw, in a interview on one of the links here in the comments it was confirmed there will be player vehicles and there will be instances. And some other things that might be intresting i shall quote a few, the rest you can ready here http://www.dmo40k.com/
“How soon you get vehicles, how many vehicles there are in the universe. If you know 40K, you know the things in the universe. You know the races. You know things like ranged combat is going to be important for the bolters. You know the chainsword matters, and having both."
Atleast there will be vehicles, not sure how you aquare them but they will be in it.
“You know being an ork is a completely different experience than being a Space Marine, and being a Space Marine alone is a very different experience than being a scout or an Imperial Guard or any of the other Imperium of Man that you’re going to see in this trailer."
I guess it sugest that there will differences in strenghts and such ammong the races.
“But you won’t be able to be a Space Marine right away, because that’s a very unique class, if you know the universe. The road there is a great road, and they are in the game.”
As i wrote earlyer i hoped it would be something you have to work for and tadaa it seems to be like that ^_^ Beside for those who wanna be a SM, doesn't this feel more awesome to be a SM, knowing you worked for it and can count yourself as one of the most powerful beings in the universe?
My wish would to be an Imperial Guard Officer. It would be great if you could command a small squad of NPC Imperial Guards. I think being an officer would be the only way to equal a space marine. Eventually, you could command a unit of tanks etc. or deploy artillery.
However, I don't think it's going to happen. In fact, I expect this game will be like WoW in space (a PvE grind fest using lots of different skins for the bots).
Ideally, Warhammer40k should be about big PvP battles in space hulks and different terrains. But I think lots of variety in these is important.
However, I think DUST will be closer to the gritty feel of the Warhammer 40k universe because CCP go against the grain (and don't bend over backwards for carebears and kids). CCP specialise in PvP more, which I think is better.
While a fan of Warhammer 40k, this game has fail written all over it because they decided they could do it with just two factions. There are lots of factions in this game, they are being just flat out lazy just doing two of them. It will really hurt pvp.
I agree a skill system is far better than a leveling system, but again, developers are lazy and they shy away from such a design.
I don't have high hopes for this game, but maybe they will surprise us. The genre could definitely use a decent MMO right now.