I call this the Vader effect. People think that because Vader was so badass, all Jedi and Sith must be badass....but this isn't the case. Jedi were originally scholars with an above-average aptitude for combat. Some, like Vader (or Anakin), would specialize in combat and become the best of the best. But put an average Jedi or Sith against a trained combat team of troopers, bounty hunters, or assassine droids...they would most likely fail.
Also, Jedi weren't always trained from childhood. In the SW lore they would train anyone they could find that showed some semblance of ability with the force. This only changed after the war with the Sith (which is the time period of the game), since it was found children were easier to manipulate and keep on the correct path, hence, stopping another rise of the Sith (or trying to at least).
Either way...I think Bioware has done as good of job as can be expected, keeping close to the SW lore, while making a playable (and hopefully fun) MMO. Plus, looking at a galaxy of trillions of people and species containing, what...two-three million Jedi and Sith...its not too hard to believe.
(Spent childhood reading every SW book published...I know...sad )
Something else the OP clearly doesn't seem to get, is that force users weren't the only people trained from birth. You had mandolorians, bounty hunters, mercenaries, troopers, etc. But it doesn't really matter how many times we pointt out the flaws in the OP's premise, because having an actual discussion wasn't the purpose of this thread.
Jedi does not mean super-awesome-amazing-bad-mamajama. They can die just as easily, as many of my fellow posters have pointed out. Stop being a Red Shirt Guy and enjoy the game for what it is and will be... amazing.
SWTOR = KOTOR3
If you didn't like KOTOR, see ya later then! Stop bothering the rest of the crew. Go be a fanboi somewhere else.
The game will be a polished, refined gem when it releases. Don't believe it will be bug-free; no game ever is. However, I'm confident in the KOTOR series, and I can't imagine this game will disappoint.
If you truly believe in your "Jedi" (and I know you do, fanboi), learn patience young padawan. Stop harshly attacking this game before it's even released.
I just wonder what all the Sith people are going to think because we all know the Sith Empire loses the war and for thousands of years only two ever live at a time, in secret.
So day one of SWTOR you've already lost Sith Empire, so lawls?
Meh, haters gota hate someting, Tghe motion pictures is what started it all, but the IP/LORE was already far more adv then what we seen in the movies. remeber that the first movies were the middle section , original there supose to be 9 , but he desited to make jsut 3 and later a other 3 that explained how the jedi become so rare while under "normal" times a jedi /sith is not a rare thing at all.
the sith are a spiecies, not a "bad guy" it became the general name since it was the sith that were so darn good at using the science magic named The Force. besites the Jedi, and Sith, there plenty of other groups and spiecies that are Force-sensitive.
Nightsisters being a known exsample.. the movies are great but asfar exsamples they are bad reference material and vastly outdated by all the actual data that makes up the starwars univerce.
I just wonder what all the Sith people are going to think because we all know the Sith Empire loses the war and for thousands of years only two ever live at a time, in secret.
So day one of SWTOR you've already lost Sith Empire, so lawls?
I guess that explains where the same sex relationships come in huh?
"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic."
Seems to imply to me that there used to be quite a few of them...
You nurd lol...
That was all before the dark times. Before the Empire.
"A young JEDI named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the JEDI knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the JEDI are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the Dark side of the Force." hehe
The following statement is false The previous statement is true
How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?
And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?
I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.
Sure anyonce CAN be a Jedi but a lot of people are not. I for one will be going Bounty Hunter!!!
It's all Star Wars lore, folks. There were thousands of Jedi in The Old Republic. It makes sense that there would be lots of Jedi. SWTOR is lore-friendly, so were KOTOR1+2.
However, in the time when SWG was taking place during the Dark Empire after the invasion of the True Sith, almost all Jedi have been hunted to extinction. It made sense that Jedi was hard to obtain and made it heresy when SOE started whoring out their Jedi class to the undeserving masses, completely violating lore.
"And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?" -OP Non-Jedi classes are just as powerful as Jedi. Jedi are not weaker, everybody else is stronger.
I think a lot of people need to seek a helmet, strap it on and deal with the fact that considerations to make this a good game have to supercede the considerations to make it 100A% lore-worthy.
the same exact complaining started when LOTRO was nearing release, incidentally.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
It's no different than everyone playing Dark Elves/Wizards/Vampires in fantasy MMOs or whatever bad-ass archetype or cool character is familiar to a particular genre. There will always be a degree of ridiculousness in any mmo as the most populated games are always swarming with heros and chosen ones because players limited by classes are the only game personas outside of NPCs. Even if an excellent game like Vanguard suddenly gained a huge population you would gradually see more of the same favorite classes or builds running around everywhere.
How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?
And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?
I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.
While I'm not the slightest bit excited for this game, it will be care bear and weak for my liking...I will say that the timeline totally fits all the jedi. Remember, the galaxy was once very populated with jedi...this takes place way before the jedi were thinned out.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
How many people does a server hold usually? Not at once but total. 3-4k? More? I'm not sure.
But imagine it's 4k, and all of these people roll force users, half on each side. So in the entire galaxy (server) you'd have around 2k each jedis and sith. The galaxy is huge; this number is not that over the top.
How many people does a server hold usually? Not at once but total. 3-4k? More? I'm not sure.
But imagine it's 4k, and all of these people roll force users, half on each side. So in the entire galaxy (server) you'd have around 2k each jedis and sith. The galaxy is huge; this number is not that over the top.
Simutaneously most modern servers for MMO's can take a max load of anywhere between 4 - 10k users on at any one time, in the past 2-3k concurrent was pushing it but not nowadays. Btw it's never a single server but a group of them working together. You're talking more in line of 50k plus active accounts per server. The tech exists to hold upwards of 100k concurrent connections via massive server farms but till now isn't really needed.
When you think of the planets and how many Jedi/Sith will be flooding them i'm sure it sounds preposterous if comparing to the books and movies, but it's an MMO, you have to give them lee way.
How does that make any kind of sense seeing as in the movies Jedis were these gifted and elite warriors who were trained from a small child?
And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?
I am sorry but, if this is really the case, it is absurd. I dont understand how a SW fan would be able to become immersed in such a virtual world with any John Schmoe running around like a Jedi Knight.
The timeline allows for several Jedi and Sith, remember this is just before the New Sith War (aka Jedi-Sith War). The population around this time period for both was rather large (larger then the Jedi population in the prequels.) So no it does not brake immersion, as a matter of fact if there were fewer Jedi and Sith it would be far more immersion braking.
Remember this is the Old Republic era, this means high populations (eventually leading to many Jedi falling to the darkside) and fighting (eventually leading to the massive Jedi-Sith war).
Also these are not the "elite" Jedi you see in the movies, those took time to polish time these Jedi and Sith don't have and the honest truth is a Jedi would be luck to live long enough to be called old in this era. Vets are rare, corpses are plentiful and most of those bodies were caused by "non" Jedi/Sith, so yes it was not uncommon to see a trooper take out a Sith or an agent takeout a Jedi. However that is not the point really what is the point is that you can not have a "God" class in an MMO that is player controlled it just does not work.
I think it would be best to view it on a more real level, like wars in the past both sides are building their numbers. Sure there will be a few "elites" (mostly played by NPCs) that match the original trilogy but the simple reality is that there will be far more bodies. Welcome to the Old Republic era.
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
When they've first announced that I was like "LA take back your license damnit" but after watching 2 minutes of clone wars and reminding myself of Schaschabings I've come to the conclussion that LA doesn't care about SW any longer and it shows.
Becoming a Jedi or Sith is a long, hard way only few people were able of doing that.
If you will the Elite or the Elite
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Comments
"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic."
Seems to imply to me that there used to be quite a few of them...
Something else the OP clearly doesn't seem to get, is that force users weren't the only people trained from birth. You had mandolorians, bounty hunters, mercenaries, troopers, etc. But it doesn't really matter how many times we pointt out the flaws in the OP's premise, because having an actual discussion wasn't the purpose of this thread.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
There are many Jedi and Sith... very few Masters.
Jedi does not mean super-awesome-amazing-bad-mamajama. They can die just as easily, as many of my fellow posters have pointed out. Stop being a Red Shirt Guy and enjoy the game for what it is and will be... amazing.
SWTOR = KOTOR3
If you didn't like KOTOR, see ya later then! Stop bothering the rest of the crew. Go be a fanboi somewhere else.
The game will be a polished, refined gem when it releases. Don't believe it will be bug-free; no game ever is. However, I'm confident in the KOTOR series, and I can't imagine this game will disappoint.
If you truly believe in your "Jedi" (and I know you do, fanboi), learn patience young padawan. Stop harshly attacking this game before it's even released.
You nurd lol...
That was all before the dark times. Before the Empire.
I just wonder what all the Sith people are going to think because we all know the Sith Empire loses the war and for thousands of years only two ever live at a time, in secret.
So day one of SWTOR you've already lost Sith Empire, so lawls?
Meh, haters gota hate someting, Tghe motion pictures is what started it all, but the IP/LORE was already far more adv then what we seen in the movies. remeber that the first movies were the middle section , original there supose to be 9 , but he desited to make jsut 3 and later a other 3 that explained how the jedi become so rare while under "normal" times a jedi /sith is not a rare thing at all.
the sith are a spiecies, not a "bad guy" it became the general name since it was the sith that were so darn good at using the science magic named The Force. besites the Jedi, and Sith, there plenty of other groups and spiecies that are Force-sensitive.
Nightsisters being a known exsample.. the movies are great but asfar exsamples they are bad reference material and vastly outdated by all the actual data that makes up the starwars univerce.
I guess that explains where the same sex relationships come in huh?
:P
"A young JEDI named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the JEDI knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the JEDI are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the Dark side of the Force." hehe
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
Sure anyonce CAN be a Jedi but a lot of people are not. I for one will be going Bounty Hunter!!!
Every potential Jedi becomes a Jedi *rolleyes*.
IN the context of an MMO what does this even mean?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
.. because...
They already tried a Star Wars MMO where you could be a moisture farmer?
It's all Star Wars lore, folks.
There were thousands of Jedi in The Old Republic. It makes sense that there would be lots of Jedi. SWTOR is lore-friendly, so were KOTOR1+2.
However, in the time when SWG was taking place during the Dark Empire after the invasion of the True Sith, almost all Jedi have been hunted to extinction. It made sense that Jedi was hard to obtain and made it heresy when SOE started whoring out their Jedi class to the undeserving masses, completely violating lore.
"And they are supposedly no more powerful than other non Jedi classes?" -OP
Non-Jedi classes are just as powerful as Jedi. Jedi are not weaker, everybody else is stronger.
Imagine if Luke Skywalker wasn't snaped up by Obi Wan but was instead taken under the wing of Boba Fett.
Boba would have shot him after he got sick of hearing the whines.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"I'm a Jedi, like my father befor *BAM*"
I laughed hard at that, but yeah you get the point
I think a lot of people need to seek a helmet, strap it on and deal with the fact that considerations to make this a good game have to supercede the considerations to make it 100A% lore-worthy.
the same exact complaining started when LOTRO was nearing release, incidentally.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
It's no different than everyone playing Dark Elves/Wizards/Vampires in fantasy MMOs or whatever bad-ass archetype or cool character is familiar to a particular genre. There will always be a degree of ridiculousness in any mmo as the most populated games are always swarming with heros and chosen ones because players limited by classes are the only game personas outside of NPCs. Even if an excellent game like Vanguard suddenly gained a huge population you would gradually see more of the same favorite classes or builds running around everywhere.
Yeah I hardly laugh at my own jokes, but that gave me a chuckle just thinking about it. First thing that came to mind after reading your post.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
While I'm not the slightest bit excited for this game, it will be care bear and weak for my liking...I will say that the timeline totally fits all the jedi. Remember, the galaxy was once very populated with jedi...this takes place way before the jedi were thinned out.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
How many people does a server hold usually? Not at once but total. 3-4k? More? I'm not sure.
But imagine it's 4k, and all of these people roll force users, half on each side. So in the entire galaxy (server) you'd have around 2k each jedis and sith. The galaxy is huge; this number is not that over the top.
Simutaneously most modern servers for MMO's can take a max load of anywhere between 4 - 10k users on at any one time, in the past 2-3k concurrent was pushing it but not nowadays. Btw it's never a single server but a group of them working together. You're talking more in line of 50k plus active accounts per server. The tech exists to hold upwards of 100k concurrent connections via massive server farms but till now isn't really needed.
When you think of the planets and how many Jedi/Sith will be flooding them i'm sure it sounds preposterous if comparing to the books and movies, but it's an MMO, you have to give them lee way.
The timeline allows for several Jedi and Sith, remember this is just before the New Sith War (aka Jedi-Sith War). The population around this time period for both was rather large (larger then the Jedi population in the prequels.) So no it does not brake immersion, as a matter of fact if there were fewer Jedi and Sith it would be far more immersion braking.
Remember this is the Old Republic era, this means high populations (eventually leading to many Jedi falling to the darkside) and fighting (eventually leading to the massive Jedi-Sith war).
Also these are not the "elite" Jedi you see in the movies, those took time to polish time these Jedi and Sith don't have and the honest truth is a Jedi would be luck to live long enough to be called old in this era. Vets are rare, corpses are plentiful and most of those bodies were caused by "non" Jedi/Sith, so yes it was not uncommon to see a trooper take out a Sith or an agent takeout a Jedi. However that is not the point really what is the point is that you can not have a "God" class in an MMO that is player controlled it just does not work.
I think it would be best to view it on a more real level, like wars in the past both sides are building their numbers. Sure there will be a few "elites" (mostly played by NPCs) that match the original trilogy but the simple reality is that there will be far more bodies. Welcome to the Old Republic era.
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
When they've first announced that I was like "LA take back your license damnit" but after watching 2 minutes of clone wars and reminding myself of Schaschabings I've come to the conclussion that LA doesn't care about SW any longer and it shows.
Becoming a Jedi or Sith is a long, hard way only few people were able of doing that.
If you will the Elite or the Elite
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."