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What makes ganking newbs fun?

robert4818robert4818 Aurora, COPosts: 661Member

SWTOR announced that you would not be able to make your way to the opponents starting world and gank starting players.  It did not say that they removed PVP, that it would only be instanced PVP, or that once someone left the starter planets (around lvl 20 or so) that you couldn't attack them.  ONLY that you you couldn't go and gank brand new toons.

Nerd rage followed from the PK community.

My question is WHY?

Why is the ability to kill brand new players so integral to the playstyle?  Why does the temporary ability to avoid ganking cause so much hate and discontent?

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

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Comments

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    This might be interesting...

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • KaeriganKaerigan None Of Your BusinessPosts: 689Member

    Because herp derp danger/carebears was what I got out from that other thread.

    <childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>

  • ClocksimusClocksimus Barrie, ONPosts: 354Member

    Being able to gank new players only works in systems designed in a manner that allows any level player to effectively kill another player completely disregarding levels.  I'm rather sure that SWTOR does not have such a system in place and therefore forced to restrict pvp to counter the fact that in video games you don't go to prison for being a pyscho and mass killing a bunch of helpless people.

    Is the concept of full open pvp from the start a bad idea? That is completely  subjective to how the game is designed in terms of players abilities to fight back.

    Does the concept of full open pvp from the start add an interesting sense of danger to the world?  Yes it does, but no more than it will if the danger is delayed untill you are level 10/20/30 or whichever level is decided upon that you can  defend yourself against ganks.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,469Member Uncommon

    Beating the crap out of bullies is more fun.

  • LeoghanLeoghan Herndon, VAPosts: 607Member

    The only thing I can see making it fun is a low level of self-esteem. 

  • CeridithCeridith Toronto, ONPosts: 2,980Member

    Originally posted by robert4818

    SWTOR announced that you would not be able to make your way to the opponents starting world and gank starting players.  It did not say that they removed PVP, that it would only be instanced PVP, or that once someone left the starter planets (around lvl 20 or so) that you couldn't attack them.  ONLY that you you couldn't go and gank brand new toons.

    Nerd rage followed from the PK community.

    My question is WHY?

    Why is the ability to kill brand new players so integral to the playstyle?  Why does the temporary ability to avoid ganking cause so much hate and discontent?

    I could go into all sorts of psychological reasoning as to why...

    But long story short... it's typical bully behavior; it gives them a self esteem boost to beat up people who can't defend themselves.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,439Member Uncommon

    I hear the voices of infomercials reply with a smile, " Its fun!, Its Easy!, its Great." *smile*

    I dunno.

  • DerWotanDerWotan NorrathPosts: 1,012Member

    Originally posted by robert4818

    SWTOR announced that you would not be able to make your way to the opponents starting world and gank starting players.  It did not say that they removed PVP, that it would only be instanced PVP, or that once someone left the starter planets (around lvl 20 or so) that you couldn't attack them.  ONLY that you you couldn't go and gank brand new toons.

    Nerd rage followed from the PK community.

    My question is WHY?

    Why is the ability to kill brand new players so integral to the playstyle?  Why does the temporary ability to avoid ganking cause so much hate and discontent?

     

    whats there to discuss if you chosse a pvp server ganking has to be part of it, i f you can't deal with ganking go play on a pve server.

    Anyway real PvP has lost its way since Daoc and Pre-Trammel so I'm not interested in PvP servers anymore you lose nothing, there is no thrill or fear.

     

    We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!

    "Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
    "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."

  • MeltdownMeltdown Home, NHPosts: 1,184Member Uncommon

    The most accurate description I've seen is from one of my favorite web comics nerfnow.

     

    "That feeling of despair and hopeleness, that's what I think drives DOTA players. To utterly crush your enemies. From destroying their ancients to denying their kills. Isn't about winning as much as it is to make the enemy lose everything."

     

    "They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath

  • jedensuscgjedensuscg Kodiak, AKPosts: 209Member

    People get bored and lazy, and when this happens, they will go and gank lowbies that have a 0% chance to defend themselves, why?

    Because they are bored and have nothing better to do, and because they are lazy and don't want to take the time to challange someone that can...well...actually challenge them back.

    It's one thing to go and wipe out a noobie zone once just to laugh and say you did, but truth is, most gankers get the vast majority of there in-game enjoyment doing this, and that is just pathetic behavior.

    The irony is, THEY call the people against this playstyle carebears, when in reality they are the ones too chicken-shit to face someone that can beat them back.

    image

  • twodayslatetwodayslate Almost Mexico, CAPosts: 724Member

    Originally posted by Meltdown

    The most accurate description I've seen is from one of my favorite web comics nerfnow.

     

    "That feeling of despair and hopeleness, that's what I think drives DOTA players. To utterly crush your enemies. From destroying their ancients to denying their kills. Isn't about winning as much as it is to make the enemy lose everything."

     

    Ensuring that the weak stay weak has been the only semi-coherent justification that I've ever heard come out of any of them.  The exact same principle that drives modern bankers.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Boredom.

    Sure, it's fun to do every once in a while. Go to a low level zone, slaughter everything in order to draw out the high level friends/alts/guildies etc. for a real fight.

    I could never sit there and do it all the time.

    Noobs though? No. Never.

    There is a big difference between a level 60 toon killing level 30's and a level 60 killing level 5's.

    Bioware is very smart to keep ganking off the starter zones.

    Give new players 10-15 levels to figure the game out.

     

    The real key is to offer enough enjoyable content for high level players that they are never bored enough to go gank.

     

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by twodayslate

    Originally posted by Meltdown

    The most accurate description I've seen is from one of my favorite web comics nerfnow.

    "That feeling of despair and hopeleness, that's what I think drives DOTA players. To utterly crush your enemies. From destroying their ancients to denying their kills. Isn't about winning as much as it is to make the enemy lose everything."

    Ensuring that the weak stay weak has been the only semi-coherent justification that I've ever heard come out of any of them.  The exact same principle that drives modern bankers.

    Problem is that because this is only a game, the weak who are forced to stay weak will simply leave the game.

    People won't pay to be victims forever.

    Everyone has a breaking point. For most people, it's pretty damn quick.

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,797Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by DerWotan

    Originally posted by robert4818

    SWTOR announced that you would not be able to make your way to the opponents starting world and gank starting players.  It did not say that they removed PVP, that it would only be instanced PVP, or that once someone left the starter planets (around lvl 20 or so) that you couldn't attack them.  ONLY that you you couldn't go and gank brand new toons.

    Nerd rage followed from the PK community.

    My question is WHY?

    Why is the ability to kill brand new players so integral to the playstyle?  Why does the temporary ability to avoid ganking cause so much hate and discontent?

     

    whats there to discuss if you chosse a pvp server ganking has to be part of it, i f you can't deal with ganking go play on a pve server.

    Anyway real PvP has lost its way since Daoc and Pre-Trammel so I'm not interested in PvP servers anymore you lose nothing, there is no thrill or fear.

     

     

    Killing other players that are so low level they have no chance at all of defending themsleves is not PVP.

     

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Originally posted by Leoghan

    The only thing I can see making it fun is a low level of self-esteem. 

     

    After fifteen years of these threads -- yes.  Adler said superiority and inferiority complexes are just different expressions of the same pathology.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • SlukjanSlukjan Burlington, VTPosts: 254Member Uncommon

    If you are a particularly sadistic person then noob ganking is a source of great enjoyment.  Knowing the furstration and pain you are causing the other person makes it fun and worthwhile.  Laughing at them as they struggle, knowing there is nothing they can do but log out to avoid the ganking.  I've done it a few times and have to say that it's pretty fun.  I would get bored of it if it was my only thing to do, however.  But every once in a while, in WoW, when I'd get bored....sometimes I'd hunt down lowbies to squash.  One of my favorite haunts was Duskwood (it's been so long I forget if that is the right name).  There was a building in the town that was close to a hill and if you had a mount you could jump onto the roof and proceed to use your ranged attack to kill the lowbs and the guards could not reach you.  Plus the noobs usually had no idea where the attacks were coming from so they would just run around all panicked.  Like I said, fun for a little while, but not as a regular playstyle.  Except for those moe sadistic types.

  • fansedefansede Raleigh, NCPosts: 960Member

    Ok there is a game in production that has been listed here. PvP Gankers  full loot  and permadeath. Rejoice. Here it is

    SALEM

     

    Now you can stop folowing SW: TOR and delve in the glory of Salem!

  • godzilr1godzilr1 scottsdale, AZPosts: 550Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    I hear the voices of infomercials reply with a smile, " Its fun!, Its Easy!, its Great." *smile*

    I dunno.

    Followed by commercials that point you to youtube for "It gets better"...

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Boredom.

    Sure, it's fun to do every once in a while. Go to a low level zone, slaughter everything in order to draw out the high level friends/alts/guildies etc. for a real fight.

    I could never sit there and do it all the time.

    Noobs though? No. Never.

    There is a big difference between a level 60 toon killing level 30's and a level 60 killing level 5's.

    Bioware is very smart to keep ganking off the starter zones.

    Give new players 10-15 levels to figure the game out.

     

    The real key is to offer enough enjoyable content for high level players that they are never bored enough to go gank.

     

    hmm could you tell me what is very different about a level 60 ganking 30's vs 5's? It's really not that different or a "fair fight" still, its an ego trip more than anything else...

    image


    image

  • twstdstrangetwstdstrange Walton, NYPosts: 474Member

    I used to think it was to encourage higher level players to come and protect their lower level allies, but after watching Rogues gank 60's in Honor Hold for three hours and stay in stealth when 85's came, I'm now convinced it's because they like to be... well... douche bags.

  • travdotytravdoty modesto, CAPosts: 274Member

    Because its funny to see how serious some people are about video games. If you really care so much that it makes you angry when someone comes and kills you in a video game, then you need help. No, gankers do not have low self esteem. No, they do not have 'issues' in real life. It's honestly just funny to hear the nerd raging that follows.

    *edit* I also look at it the same way I look at people who whine about the AWP in counterstrike. If you don't like a particular feature of a game (the AWP, the ability to gank, etc) then don't play the game. It's that easy.

  • garrygarry Birmingham, ALPosts: 263Member

    Every ganker has victims about whom they could care less. Every ganker gleefully destroy many victims. Victims in an MMO are players, paying customers. How long do you gankers think your precious PVP centric game will last when you start running out of victims. You certainly don't care of course but ask the company who made your game how they feel about sub loss. How long will the game last? Well, we both know you don't really care, you will just go find another game that allows you to indulge yourself. Then you can spend time on some forum crowing about yourself and spewing your contempt on companies, devs, players etc...Real PVP competitors will actually be playing on the more restricted PVP games where they develope their skills and welcome newcomer PVPers for the enjoyment of both. But you gankers don't care about that either since you hold other PVPers in contempt as well. You stand alone, the ultimate solo player - the key word being alone since you can't stand each other any more than we can stand you. I do not feel contempt for gankers, I feel sorry for them. They miss so much! 

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Originally posted by travdoty

    No, gankers do not have low self esteem....It's honestly just funny to hear the nerd raging that follows.

    That's very difficult to credit when you read their complex construct of justifications--including the contradiction inherent in the above.

     

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Ice don't true using actual science, truth, and reason here - it will never fly with this crowd - trust me.

    Just smile and nod and agree with whoever yells the loudest...

    'cause they'll never listen.

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member

    I'm surprised there was even a negative reaction against this decision, as it was hardly unusual.  So many current popular games use a similar system (WoW, Rift, Aion--which is all about pvp), and it's been no secret that ToR is vying to become a mainstream game.  Aside from that specific crowd who will eternally struggle to return to the cut-throat days of UO and DAOC, the rest of the MMO population has become well accustomed to this particular feature, which exists for some very good reasons, as has been outlined in this thread and others.    

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