...... no surprise that MMORPG.com is in favor of being grabbed by the ankles and shook upside down till our pockets are empty. this site has gone downhill sooo bad over the years.
well looks like the only game i was really looking forward to is out, really disgusts me where MMOs are heading. starting to look like i need to find a new hobby altogether. vote with my wallet and all that..
I find the article quite preposterous. The only thing mentioned to justify the title of it was the statement that we pay for cosmetic items in the real world, how exactly does that mean it makes sense we pay for them in a subscription based video game?
Under the same thinking we should be paying money for :
Health Potions - We pay for medical treatment in the ral world
Food - We pay for our groceries in the real world
Transport - We pay for public and private transport in the real world
Leveling/skilling up - We pay for education in the real world
etc etc
That list makes about as much sense as the article, none.
Don't give them any ideas.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well I was looking very forward to this game but they just killed it for me. This is VERY dissapointing! If a game is Pay to Play then it should NOT have a cash shop, period! Cash shops should be reserved for the F2P market only. Doing this just showes me that all they are worried about is milking it for every thing they can. I hope enough people pass on the game that it will send a message. Shame on you Funcome and EA. Now I have no MMO to be excited about.
Funny thing is, I had nothing to do with it, but somehow the Developers figured out that my market niche exists and is starting to cater to it. Sucks to be you...but hey... I've been sucking it up for years now.
Just like I had to let go of my desire for group oriented MMORPG's in order to keep playing, you face the same decision with regards to cash shop/P2P games. Pay or go home is really the only option either of us has.
I do not see any problem with this subscription model at all. I guess that a lot of people on this site wholly underestimate the numbers and the market power of people like me and Kyleran. If I only have time to play 6 hours a week I want those hours to be fun and exiting and if I can pay a bit more to have that I will. I totally understand that lots of people do not see it that way, but this is my hobby too and i want to play it the way I like, not having to obey some "Ideal game" idea of doing things.
If you have one of the best item sets in the game, and looking around, you see a player with a vanity item (wings, colored armor, etc) there is no reason why you should think, "Hey, Ive put less money into this game, I deserve that item as much as he does". The game will more than likely have items that are very difficult to obtain, so if you are one of those "I like to be different and have something very few players have" kind of person (myself included), then there will always be those kind of items to get. You just cant see players with items bought from the store and say "I deserve that", they payed for it, they deserve the item.
Please someone come up with a decently thought out arguement and reply to this post.
Very good post, the whole thing seems (IMHO) that there is an expectation among lots of the gaming population that a significant part of the sub base for any game really should "pay their dues" and "do not complain about what they get for that sub" I would love to see a major developer put in a sub based on time in game so people like me can pay for the time we actually play and the hardcore players pay for their time in game.
Not even the pay to win games admit they are pay to win. I'll wait to see with this one.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Cash shop in a game with a subscription fee is disgusting.
That means you too WoW, Lineage 2 and Aion.
Screw you guys im goin home.
It seems obvious to me that the people that support this kind of complete and utter bull**** are young teens, gamers that did not come from a time where DLC was free and called "patches" instead.
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief. Join me on TwitchFacebook Twitter
Funny thing is, I had nothing to do with it, but somehow the Developers figured out that my market niche exists and is starting to cater to it. Sucks to be you...but hey... I've been sucking it up for years now.
Just like I had to let go of my desire for group oriented MMORPG's in order to keep playing, you face the same decision with regards to cash shop/P2P games. Pay or go home is really the only option either of us has.
I do not see any problem with this subscription model at all. I guess that a lot of people on this site wholly underestimate the numbers and the market power of people like me and Kyleran. If I only have time to play 6 hours a week I want those hours to be fun and exiting and if I can pay a bit more to have that I will. I totally understand that lots of people do not see it that way, but this is my hobby too and i want to play it the way I like, not having to obey some "Ideal game" idea of doing things.
Wouldn't it make more sense to play an MMO designed expressly for casual gamers, rather than playing an MMO designed to be casual unfriendly and having to pay extra to get rid of intentially designed inconveniences?
If you have one of the best item sets in the game, and looking around, you see a player with a vanity item (wings, colored armor, etc) there is no reason why you should think, "Hey, Ive put less money into this game, I deserve that item as much as he does". The game will more than likely have items that are very difficult to obtain, so if you are one of those "I like to be different and have something very few players have" kind of person (myself included), then there will always be those kind of items to get. You just cant see players with items bought from the store and say "I deserve that", they payed for it, they deserve the item.
Please someone come up with a decently thought out arguement and reply to this post.
Very good post, the whole thing seems (IMHO) that there is an expectation among lots of the gaming population that a significant part of the sub base for any game really should "pay their dues" and "do not complain about what they get for that sub" I would love to see a major developer put in a sub based on time in game so people like me can pay for the time we actually play and the hardcore players pay for their time in game.
I guess we just have different views on what a game is. I'm not a hardcore player by any means, I play games for entertainment. I grew up long before video games, back in the days of board games. When you would sit at a table with a group of people, look them in the eye and play fair and square.
To me... a game is not about the pixels you collect, it's not about winning or losing, it's about the fun and enjoyment you get from the game. It makes you feel really good, deep down inside, when you accomplish something that was really hard to do. The loot is secondary... I could really give a flying @#&;%
I don't know... gam'es to me are all about playing them, not about buying shit, to me it just cheapen's the game. Times have truly changed.
Instead of waiting till you land on Boardwalk to buy it.... If you give me $10 you can have it right now.
Game companies have learned over the last few years that no matter how much people complain about it, they will still spend the money if given the option.
Hell, people were selling/buying items in MMOs for real money since forever (people selling keeps/houses in UO, plat sales via shady sites and eventually ebay for EQ shortly after its launch in 99... the list goes on...). Enough people have shown they are willing to spend real money for virtual items to make companies ask "So why don't we?".
Funny thing is, I am willing to bet 4 out of 5 people crusading against cash shops in subscription MMOs are guilty of spending more than $15 a month in said shops. Not because they have to, but because they can.
So you can't really pin sole blame on the companies - It's the players you have to blame. They are the ones who made gold farmers big business, the ones who ate up $25 sparkle ponies, who spend $5-$10 on DLC packs, and the ones who gave virtual items real monetary value. The companies are just giving the players what they want.
Because sadly, we asked for it...
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Game companies have learned over the last few years that no matter how much people complain about it, they will still spend the money if given the option.
Hell, people were selling/buying items in MMOs for real money since forever (people selling keeps/houses in UO, plat sales via shady sites and eventually ebay for EQ shortly after its launch in 99... the list goes on...). Enough people have shown they are willing to spend real money for virtual items to make companies ask "So why don't we?".
Funny thing is, I am willing to bet 4 out of 5 people crusading against cash shops in subscription MMOs are guilty of spending more than $15 a month in said shops. Not because they have to, but because they can.
So you can't really pin sole blame on the companies - It's the players you have to blame. They are the ones who made gold farmers big business, the ones who ate up $25 sparkle ponies, who spend $5-$10 on DLC packs, and the ones who gave virtual items real monetary value. The companies are just giving the players what they want.
Because sadly, we asked for it...
You can bet whatever you'd like. I have never once bought anything in a cash shop in any game. I have also never bought DLC. I have also never bought an Ubisoft game since they went insane with DRM.
Game companies have learned over the last few years that no matter how much people complain about it, they will still spend the money if given the option.
Hell, people were selling/buying items in MMOs for real money since forever (people selling keeps/houses in UO, plat sales via shady sites and eventually ebay for EQ shortly after its launch in 99... the list goes on...). Enough people have shown they are willing to spend real money for virtual items to make companies ask "So why don't we?".
Funny thing is, I am willing to bet 4 out of 5 people crusading against cash shops in subscription MMOs are guilty of spending more than $15 a month in said shops. Not because they have to, but because they can.
So you can't really pin sole blame on the companies - It's the players you have to blame. They are the ones who made gold farmers big business, the ones who ate up $25 sparkle ponies, who spend $5-$10 on DLC packs, and the ones who gave virtual items real monetary value. The companies are just giving the players what they want.
Because sadly, we asked for it...
You can bet whatever you'd like. I have never once bought anything in a cash shop in any game. I have also never bought DLC. I have also never bought an Ubisoft game since they went insane with DRM.
You might not have, but then again how are we to know for sure?
What people say and what people do don't always line up. The world is full of hypocrits.
Now I am not saying you are lying or that you have/haven't done anything you listed above. Just pointing out that just because someone says something doesn't mean they actually do it.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Game companies have learned over the last few years that no matter how much people complain about it, they will still spend the money if given the option.
Hell, people were selling/buying items in MMOs for real money since forever (people selling keeps/houses in UO, plat sales via shady sites and eventually ebay for EQ shortly after its launch in 99... the list goes on...). Enough people have shown they are willing to spend real money for virtual items to make companies ask "So why don't we?".
Funny thing is, I am willing to bet 4 out of 5 people crusading against cash shops in subscription MMOs are guilty of spending more than $15 a month in said shops. Not because they have to, but because they can.
So you can't really pin sole blame on the companies - It's the players you have to blame. They are the ones who made gold farmers big business, the ones who ate up $25 sparkle ponies, who spend $5-$10 on DLC packs, and the ones who gave virtual items real monetary value. The companies are just giving the players what they want.
Because sadly, we asked for it...
You can bet whatever you'd like. I have never once bought anything in a cash shop in any game. I have also never bought DLC. I have also never bought an Ubisoft game since they went insane with DRM.
You might not have, but then again how are we to know for sure?
What people say and what people do don't always line up. The world is full of hypocrits.
Now I am not saying you are lying or that you have/haven't done anything you listed above. Just pointing out that just because someone says something doesn't mean they actually do it.
You can personally believe whatever you'd like, but assumptions based on no data mean pretty much nothing, regardless.
It is obvious that there are people out there that use the cash shop, otherwise, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It is much more likely to be the minority that spend big money for an advantage in the game, etc, in my opinion... but that is just opinion.
As I know there is someting else you should know too..
Anarchy Online shop - yes you can buy in-game money for real money but you are rewarded by "reward points" and in-game money for playing ( mean -> pay subcription -> play month or more -> get in-game money and reward points for the moth + bonus for additional played time => more you play = more you get -> use in-game money or reward points for buying items from in-game shop).
It's pretty simple and you must not pay additional real money from your pocket but you have option to use it if you are really greedy for some item/s.
As I can see it it really depends on Funcom &EA marridge how it will be in this case but I hope it will not be much different than it is in the case of Anarchy Online.
I like how people are willing to pay 15 dollars a month just to have access to an entire game. But charge them a one time fee of 5 to 10 dollars and get upset. If you use the (understandable, but I sort of disagree with) logic that you don't want to pay for content you should already have with micro transactions, then why are you so willing to spend 15 dollars a month, not getting any new content for months and months until the small changes come out. And then on top of that, page for 30-40 dollar exspansion packs.
First... The $15 gets you access to *everything* in the game, fluff or otherwise. You obtain/earn everything in the game by actually playing it. No extra cost required.Plus, it's a level playing field, everyone pays the same fee, everyone gets access to the same content, everyone has the same obstacles, challenges and requirements to fulfill in order to obtain what they want in the game.
The entire design of a P2P/Sub based game is intended to keep people interested, so they'll keep playing and paying their $15 month after month. And before someone says "yeah but they do that with time sinks so you have to play longer and pay more"... hello... we're talking about MMORPGs here, a genre of games that are by design unending; that can, and are, played for months or even years by some people. They aren't single-player games where you finish it in a couple weeks and then move on to the next one (though some people do play them like that).
Now, with F2P/Cash Shop MMOs, the entire game is designed first and foremost to get people hooked and dependent on certain things, like HP or MP potions, XP pots/charms, special trinkets so you don't lose xp upon death, etc... They throw these kinds of things at you for the first 30 levels or so, to get you used to and dependent on them. And those levels go fast.
Then, after level 30 or so, the real game kicks in. Now that you're invested and, presumably, really into your character. You're not so ready to walk away from "all that progress", and are probably a bit more willing to pull the credit card out.
They take away those freebies, and suddenly you notice the leveling slowing down substantially. You notice your HP meter dropping rather quickly and HP potions aren't quite so plentiful anymore. And so on. The game starts throwing all kinds of obstacles, speed-bumps and inconveniences at you, which they - lo and behold - just happen to sell stuff for in the cash shop!
The quote in my sig sums it up beautifully.
Once you're out of that "newbie friendly" period, and the real game kicks in. The focus goes from getting you hooked on the game, to getting you to the cash shop as frequently as possible, for as many reasons as possible.And boy do they love flashing reminders to "visit the cash shop!" in your face as often as they feasibly can.
F2P/Cash Shop MMOs make money by selling convenient solutions to unnecessary problems. They only charge "a little bit"; almost pocket change compared to the box purchase and monthly sub of a P2P. Of course, they do this with the knowledge that people will think "well, it's only $5 for this... or $10 for that... It's still less than I'd pay for a sub" (I've seen people use that exact logic, many times). Of course, one can easily lose track of just how quickly those little purchases add up...
Here's an example of a real-life situation I saw while playing one with a friend of mine some years back... My friend's on a roll, they're almost breathing on their next level-up when they can use that sweet armor piece they managed to get... Only problem is their last xp charm is almost depleted, xp gain without one is unbearable, and they'll never manage to level up before they have to log out at this pace... Screw it... Go to the cash shop, buy more points - incidentally, they had to buy more points than they actually needed, due to how the designers set it up - and then get some more xp trinkets.. Ahh... problem solved.
And that's not even getting into how they structure the cash shop pricing and then stagger their Points Packages against it; another scheme designers use to get people paying more money than they really need to. My friend had to buy more points than he needed, since the point cost of xp charms was right in-between two point packages. He had to get the more expensive point package just to have enough for the charms. This left him with excess points that, incidentally, wouldn't be enough to purchase anything else. So, he'd have to buy even *more* points when he wanted to get something else...
Cash Shops were implemented 100% for the benefit the developer/publisher, not the player. They're a sneaky and subversive means to nickel and dime each player for as much as they possibly can, as often as they possibly can. That's the ultimate irony. They advertise how you can "play for FREE!" all over the place, yet, what they're really after is getting as many people as possible to spend as much as possible as often as possible... The "free players" are not the ones they're interested in hooking.
Forgive me... But I'd rather a developer focus on making a really fun game for me to play, and put their emphasis into creating new and interesting content for me to experience, than to be thinking of how they can monetize it to get even more money out of their players, all the while slapping "FREE!" all over the place.
Once upon a time, I was intrigued by and even accepting of F2P; back before they started to catch on here and very few such MMOs had taken hold in the Western Market. I even spent money in them; $15 per month, the same as I'd pay for a sub. However, over time, I started to notice the patterns. I started to see how the game was designed and how various aspects that made the game tedious, slow and inconvenient were all quaintly addressed via cash shop items. I started to pay attention even closer and, before long, found myself disgusted by the entire setup. I see Cash Shops for what they really are. People can argue otherwise all day long. They can throw all the "FREE!" PR nonsense they want at me. I only wish more people would take a step back, and really *look* at how the games are set up, from the ground up.
To be sure, it's not the money that bothers me. I could easily afford to pay upwards of $15 or more on a cash shop several times a month if i wanted to. Money to spend isn't the issue. The issue is, I can not abide nor accept a game design model that's designed, first and foremost and from the ground up, to compel me to do just that. That's my real issue with F2P/Cash Shops.
P2P MMOs are designed to keep you *playing*. And they have to do that by providing content that is going to keep you entertained and playing so that at the end of the month, when sub time comes up again, you're going to be willing to keep giving them your money to play. They have to earn my sub money month after month. A well-designed MMO will do that with no problem.
Cash shops? Pfft.. All they have to do is get someone hooked inside of the first 30 levels or so, which go by quickly, and they can potentially get more $$$ from a single player in a month than a box purchase and monthly sub fee combined. It happens all the time. Some people spend hundreds per month on these games... And believe me, those are the people these games are designed to milk. The ones who will spend the money without a second thought; the ones who would probably be spending money in the secondary markets, buying gold, items, power-leveling or entire characters anyway.
Thanks but no thanks. I'll spend my $15 a month, knowing that everything I want to do, achieve or obtain in the game, I will do by playing. I'd rather know that obstacles I encounter will have means to overcome them by playing. How much money I have on hand to spend has absolutely zero relevance or impact on my experience, because it's useless inside the game.
Buy 2 Play makes sense now down. And before you play that early 2000's broken record called "Devs need the 15 dollars a month to keep the game up and get paid", thats not true anymore. It was true back in the day, but games like Guild Wars, WoW (they make a rediculouse a mount of money per player), and many many other prove its not true.
Umm... Last time I checked, WoW is a sub-based MMO. Also, last time I checked, it's doing just fine. RIFT is a sub-based MMO. It's doing just fine. Several other MMOs are still sub-based, and are chugging along just fine.
There's nothing "out-dated" or "obsolete" or "early 2000s" about subscriptions. They're every bit as valid now as they have been for the past 10+ years. The only thing that's changed is a new, additional, payment model as entered the picture. It's an alternative to subs... not a replacement. The same goes for Buy-To-Play.
Developers need money to keep things running, period. How they get that money is the only difference. There's box fees+subs, there's F2P/Cash Shops and there's Buy-to-Play with a supplemental cash shop, like GW. Each means brings in money for the companies. What matters there is how those payment models are reflected in the game design itself.
Guild Wars has made millions with box sales alone. They're doing well enough to be able to run successfully while p2p games before and long after it are falling a part around it. Not to mention they've also got enough man power to work on Guild Wars 2 (man power costs money). So the b2p model works. But devs would make generic MMOs (with new paint, sure) tend to make generic choices. Or maybe its up to the publishers in the end.
Guild Wars has also had several expansions, and they've had a cash shop in their game for a while now, allowing people to buy skill sets, etc. ANET hasn't been making money on box sales alone. GW is also not considered a true MMORPG; a point that's been discussed many times already.
P2P MMOs fail because they're poor games that don't attract or keep enough players to stay afloat. It has nothing to do with their payment method. Again, WoW is a sub-based game.. it's doing fine. Why? Because enough people enjoy it to keep the money pouring in. FFXI is a sub-based game that's been going for over 8 years now.. It's still going fine. Why? Because it's a good enough game to enough people to keep the money coming in. RIFT is a sub-based game - released in a time where "F2P/Cash Shops" are supposed to be "the new way forward" - and it's doing fine. Why? Because it's a good enough game to enough people to keep it going... and so forth.
Subscriptions don't kill MMOs. Poor design and a lack of players kills MMOs.
I'm down for a cash shop, but not a monthly fee. About 3 years ago, I would have been fine with a monthly fee. But time have changed. They've changed more than 3 years ago. 15 dollars a month for a game just doesn't make sense anymore.
In your opinion. In mine, subs are still a perfectly feasible payment method. $15 a month for 24/7, "all-you-can-eat" entertainment is a damn good deal... whether it's 2000, or 2012. With how much I play MMOs these days, I'm paying maybe 20 cents per hour. For 20 cents I can barely get a gumball from a vending machine that would probably lose its flavor after 20 minutes.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
i'm starting to think getting burnt out on MMO's and gaming in general is starting to be a good thing for me, especially now that these companies are trying to nickle and dime every single thing. Oh well more money in my pockets for other things i'm finding far more entertaining.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Nothing wrong with a 'cash' shop anymore... as long as the items being sold don't impact PvP aspects of the game, imho. If you can 'pay to win', then that's the wrong way to go.
Cash shops should adhere to the same rules as athletes... NO PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS/ITEMS.
I'm fine with pets, mounts, appearance items, and fluff like that. I'm even okay with people being able to buy items like 'storage' and such.
But if someone can grind to cap level, then 'buy' EPIC gear and/or stats... no thanks to a system like that.
Why do people even care? just dont play it, eventually it will go free AND THEN people will play it.
Its not about what the devs do, its how we, as customers, spend our money.
If we just open our wallets they will keep trying to take our money.
Most people against it are only bothering to post because the ridiculous premise of trying to rationalize this nonsense was posted as a news article. Otherwise we'd just shrug and cross it off our list of upcoming MMOs to watch, without saying a word about it.
Game companies have learned over the last few years that no matter how much people complain about it, they will still spend the money if given the option. Hell, people were selling/buying items in MMOs for real money since forever (people selling keeps/houses in UO, plat sales via shady sites and eventually ebay for EQ shortly after its launch in 99... the list goes on...). Enough people have shown they are willing to spend real money for virtual items to make companies ask "So why don't we?". Funny thing is, I am willing to bet 4 out of 5 people crusading against cash shops in subscription MMOs are guilty of spending more than $15 a month in said shops. Not because they have to, but because they can. So you can't really pin sole blame on the companies - It's the players you have to blame. They are the ones who made gold farmers big business, the ones who ate up $25 sparkle ponies, who spend $5-$10 on DLC packs, and the ones who gave virtual items real monetary value. The companies are just giving the players what they want. Because sadly, we asked for it...
You can bet whatever you'd like. I have never once bought anything in a cash shop in any game. I have also never bought DLC. I have also never bought an Ubisoft game since they went insane with DRM.
You might not have, but then again how are we to know for sure? What people say and what people do don't always line up. The world is full of hypocrits. Now I am not saying you are lying or that you have/haven't done anything you listed above. Just pointing out that just because someone says something doesn't mean they actually do it.
You got it totally wrong, that not what they conclude, because a very large part of free to play gamers never put a cent in their game. But actually the 10% of the gamer that spend money pay for the rest. Your argument is rehashed from those game company that try to tell us we are wrong, but everyone with very little knowledge about such commercial design know exactly the reason of such success. And I did spend money in those games, and played some for few years.
Edit: Also contrary to a f2p model where the game is free, in a sub+cash shop model they take zero risk, the game is already sold, so every sell in the cash shop is a straight bonus for them. A bonus we have no reason to give them first hand. One day consumer service might come and check out those guys, and we probably will have some sort of agreement with those company to put a break into those kind of crap. A lot of other industry have done such fishy commercial model, i think telephony is a very good example. Sorry for the long edit
So first Face Book to get into Beta and now this?! WTF! Never lost interest in a MMO that fast. Think EA and Funcom are like Laurel and Hardy, trying to rob us. They first shoot themselfs in the feet, befor they see some of my cash! R.I.P TSW!
Comments
...... no surprise that MMORPG.com is in favor of being grabbed by the ankles and shook upside down till our pockets are empty. this site has gone downhill sooo bad over the years.
well looks like the only game i was really looking forward to is out, really disgusts me where MMOs are heading. starting to look like i need to find a new hobby altogether. vote with my wallet and all that..
Don't give them any ideas.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well I was looking very forward to this game but they just killed it for me. This is VERY dissapointing! If a game is Pay to Play then it should NOT have a cash shop, period! Cash shops should be reserved for the F2P market only. Doing this just showes me that all they are worried about is milking it for every thing they can. I hope enough people pass on the game that it will send a message. Shame on you Funcome and EA. Now I have no MMO to be excited about.
I do not see any problem with this subscription model at all. I guess that a lot of people on this site wholly underestimate the numbers and the market power of people like me and Kyleran. If I only have time to play 6 hours a week I want those hours to be fun and exiting and if I can pay a bit more to have that I will. I totally understand that lots of people do not see it that way, but this is my hobby too and i want to play it the way I like, not having to obey some "Ideal game" idea of doing things.
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
Very good post, the whole thing seems (IMHO) that there is an expectation among lots of the gaming population that a significant part of the sub base for any game really should "pay their dues" and "do not complain about what they get for that sub" I would love to see a major developer put in a sub based on time in game so people like me can pay for the time we actually play and the hardcore players pay for their time in game.
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
Not even the pay to win games admit they are pay to win. I'll wait to see with this one.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Cash shop in a game with a subscription fee is disgusting.
That means you too WoW, Lineage 2 and Aion.
Screw you guys im goin home.
It seems obvious to me that the people that support this kind of complete and utter bull**** are young teens, gamers that did not come from a time where DLC was free and called "patches" instead.
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
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Wouldn't it make more sense to play an MMO designed expressly for casual gamers, rather than playing an MMO designed to be casual unfriendly and having to pay extra to get rid of intentially designed inconveniences?
I don't like/play f2p game coz of the cash shop so if TSW going to make cash shop for whatever reason even if its going to be
p2p it will be EPIC FAIL even if the cash shop will be only for fashion (cloth)
F2P are suck coz most of them count on who welling to pay more in cash shop
P2P for me we all are equal and all what you get with you character you earn it by playing not with extra $$
short story i dont like to play P2P game and i see someone getting things which he didn't play for it .....
I guess we just have different views on what a game is. I'm not a hardcore player by any means, I play games for entertainment. I grew up long before video games, back in the days of board games. When you would sit at a table with a group of people, look them in the eye and play fair and square.
To me... a game is not about the pixels you collect, it's not about winning or losing, it's about the fun and enjoyment you get from the game. It makes you feel really good, deep down inside, when you accomplish something that was really hard to do. The loot is secondary... I could really give a flying @#&;%
I don't know... gam'es to me are all about playing them, not about buying shit, to me it just cheapen's the game. Times have truly changed.
Instead of waiting till you land on Boardwalk to buy it.... If you give me $10 you can have it right now.
Each to their own I guess
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Game companies have learned over the last few years that no matter how much people complain about it, they will still spend the money if given the option.
Hell, people were selling/buying items in MMOs for real money since forever (people selling keeps/houses in UO, plat sales via shady sites and eventually ebay for EQ shortly after its launch in 99... the list goes on...). Enough people have shown they are willing to spend real money for virtual items to make companies ask "So why don't we?".
Funny thing is, I am willing to bet 4 out of 5 people crusading against cash shops in subscription MMOs are guilty of spending more than $15 a month in said shops. Not because they have to, but because they can.
So you can't really pin sole blame on the companies - It's the players you have to blame. They are the ones who made gold farmers big business, the ones who ate up $25 sparkle ponies, who spend $5-$10 on DLC packs, and the ones who gave virtual items real monetary value. The companies are just giving the players what they want.
Because sadly, we asked for it...
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
You can bet whatever you'd like. I have never once bought anything in a cash shop in any game. I have also never bought DLC. I have also never bought an Ubisoft game since they went insane with DRM.
Why do people even care? just dont play it, eventually it will go free AND THEN people will play it.
Its not about what the devs do, its how we, as customers, spend our money.
If we just open our wallets they will keep trying to take our money.
You might not have, but then again how are we to know for sure?
What people say and what people do don't always line up. The world is full of hypocrits.
Now I am not saying you are lying or that you have/haven't done anything you listed above. Just pointing out that just because someone says something doesn't mean they actually do it.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
You can personally believe whatever you'd like, but assumptions based on no data mean pretty much nothing, regardless.
It is obvious that there are people out there that use the cash shop, otherwise, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It is much more likely to be the minority that spend big money for an advantage in the game, etc, in my opinion... but that is just opinion.
As I know there is someting else you should know too..
Anarchy Online shop - yes you can buy in-game money for real money but you are rewarded by "reward points" and in-game money for playing ( mean -> pay subcription -> play month or more -> get in-game money and reward points for the moth + bonus for additional played time => more you play = more you get -> use in-game money or reward points for buying items from in-game shop).
It's pretty simple and you must not pay additional real money from your pocket but you have option to use it if you are really greedy for some item/s.
As I can see it it really depends on Funcom &EA marridge how it will be in this case but I hope it will not be much different than it is in the case of Anarchy Online.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
i'm starting to think getting burnt out on MMO's and gaming in general is starting to be a good thing for me, especially now that these companies are trying to nickle and dime every single thing. Oh well more money in my pockets for other things i'm finding far more entertaining.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Nothing wrong with a 'cash' shop anymore... as long as the items being sold don't impact PvP aspects of the game, imho. If you can 'pay to win', then that's the wrong way to go.
Cash shops should adhere to the same rules as athletes... NO PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS/ITEMS.
I'm fine with pets, mounts, appearance items, and fluff like that. I'm even okay with people being able to buy items like 'storage' and such.
But if someone can grind to cap level, then 'buy' EPIC gear and/or stats... no thanks to a system like that.
Most people against it are only bothering to post because the ridiculous premise of trying to rationalize this nonsense was posted as a news article. Otherwise we'd just shrug and cross it off our list of upcoming MMOs to watch, without saying a word about it.
Edit: Also contrary to a f2p model where the game is free, in a sub+cash shop model they take zero risk, the game is already sold, so every sell in the cash shop is a straight bonus for them. A bonus we have no reason to give them first hand. One day consumer service might come and check out those guys, and we probably will have some sort of agreement with those company to put a break into those kind of crap. A lot of other industry have done such fishy commercial model, i think telephony is a very good example.
Sorry for the long edit
Another fail mmo... what a surprise.
So first Face Book to get into Beta and now this?! WTF! Never lost interest in a MMO that fast. Think EA and Funcom are like Laurel and Hardy, trying to rob us. They first shoot themselfs in the feet, befor they see some of my cash! R.I.P TSW!
its fail com! have people really forgotten they hype and subsequent car crash that was Aoc? i will never give these jokers any more money.