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DOTA2: Will DotA 2 Be the Next BIG F2P?

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Comments

  • Cyberdeck7Cyberdeck7 Fingerlakes area, NYPosts: 239Member

    1 of 3 gamers with 57% of them buying 1 item/month = ~18% of gamers buying 1 item per month.

    Number obscuring attempt fail

  • NightCloakNightCloak Barrington, ILPosts: 450Member

    Originally posted by UrzaElent

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by UrzaElent

    Originally posted by jpnz

     

    I'd disagree.

    The reason LoL will be fine is that those who haven't played the original 'Dota' found 'DOTA' type games through LoL.

    LoL has the largest concentration of new-DOTA players.

    It is a bit like WoW. Everyone and their dog's first MMO is WoW. It is just how it is.

    I doubt people will suddenly move to DOTA because they have LoL.

    Despite all the new things other non-WoW MMOs brought to the market, people just didn't 'mass exodus' from WoW.

     

    I think DOTA2 will do well and I can definitely see a large portion of the WAR3-DOTA community moving across. LoL though? Not really.

     Except for the fact that blizzards games arent broken from day one and stay that way for years on end. Oh and I also dont recall blizz breaking their own client with EVERY SINGLE week either. How about the fact that blizz actually makes its players abide by their rules of conduct? Gee, maybe thats just a few of the reasons why players have stayed with WoW? Blizzards knows what it is doing maybe?

    As a former WoW/current Starcraft2 player, I can tell from personal experience that the above post is NOT true.

    Ask any former WoW what happened on 'patch' tuesday and how long it lasted.

     You want to ask a WoW player? Well, here is one since beta and at no time whatsoever do I ever recall Blizzard epic failing like Riot does just about EVERY SINGLE WEEK. And the few times that issues have come up this is what happens......

    1. Blizzard actually says there is a problem up front and right off the bat. None of this Riot bullshit of posting that the game is up and running while thousands of players are posting all over the forums that the client is broken.... again.

    2. Blizzard actually keeps their playerbase informed as to what the problem is and exactly what they are doing to fix it with realistic time frames which they almost always meet or pretty damn close. Unlike Riot, which usually either A) totally pretends that nothing is wrong till usually hours have gone by an their forums have turned into a moshpit of pitchfork wielding players. Or B) They post some half ass post basically saying they have no idea what the hell is going on then leave everyone in the dark for hours and with their last epic fail I belive it was almost a full day of little to no updates at all.

    3. And finally, unlike Riot, Blizzard actually FIXES the problem. I'm sorry but anyone that has played LoL for any length of time will tell you that they have the absolute worst client and servers ever and the problems are only getting worst not better.

    And frankly anyone that compares the kinds of stress that Blizzards WoW servers have to go through on a daily basis to that of LoL is just laughable at best.  I belive at last count Blizzard had 236 realms with each realm running 6 servers at a grand total of 1416 servers...... and thats just for the US alone. Unfortunately, I couldnt really find any hard numbers on just how many servers Riot has..... but I did find this video which pretty much sums up just how the LoL playerbase feels about Riots handling of what servers they do have, lmao!

    Enjoy, ;).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYzsdBzzho


     

     Ahh... If you claim to be a player from beta you really do have some seriously red glasses. Those are beyond rose.

    WoW suffered endlessly with its release server problems. You may have been lucky and picked a server that was not severely impacted, but I know at release and for the year following release the game was in a pretty bad state as far as stability and reliability with some servers having queue times in the hours and plenty of server crashes.

    The type of game itself mitigated much of the impacts as well.

    I play LoL quite regularly. And the client and servers have gotten much much much better. Yes, there were some issues that persisted and caused quite a fuss. But honestly Riot has gotten better about communications of issues as well as setting expectations. Anyone who believes otherwise is just a hater or troll.

    Just take a look back in time. Blizzard did exactly the same thing Riot did after release of WoW. Riot isn't doing a bad job. And its growing at a blinding pace. A year ago there was no competative scene for the game and it was a joke to think of LoL as having any pro players. Now its at damn near every major gaming event.

    Put a hint of thought and perspective into the picture and you can see things for what they are and not blurred by troll bait or hate.

  • UrzaElentUrzaElent Buckeye, AZPosts: 104Member

    Originally posted by NightCloak



    Originally posted by UrzaElent






    Originally posted by jpnz






    Originally posted by UrzaElent






    Originally posted by jpnz






     

    I'd disagree.

    The reason LoL will be fine is that those who haven't played the original 'Dota' found 'DOTA' type games through LoL.

    LoL has the largest concentration of new-DOTA players.

    It is a bit like WoW. Everyone and their dog's first MMO is WoW. It is just how it is.

    I doubt people will suddenly move to DOTA because they have LoL.

    Despite all the new things other non-WoW MMOs brought to the market, people just didn't 'mass exodus' from WoW.

     

    I think DOTA2 will do well and I can definitely see a large portion of the WAR3-DOTA community moving across. LoL though? Not really.

     Except for the fact that blizzards games arent broken from day one and stay that way for years on end. Oh and I also dont recall blizz breaking their own client with EVERY SINGLE week either. How about the fact that blizz actually makes its players abide by their rules of conduct? Gee, maybe thats just a few of the reasons why players have stayed with WoW? Blizzards knows what it is doing maybe?

    As a former WoW/current Starcraft2 player, I can tell from personal experience that the above post is NOT true.

    Ask any former WoW what happened on 'patch' tuesday and how long it lasted.

     You want to ask a WoW player? Well, here is one since beta and at no time whatsoever do I ever recall Blizzard epic failing like Riot does just about EVERY SINGLE WEEK. And the few times that issues have come up this is what happens......

    1. Blizzard actually says there is a problem up front and right off the bat. None of this Riot bullshit of posting that the game is up and running while thousands of players are posting all over the forums that the client is broken.... again.

    2. Blizzard actually keeps their playerbase informed as to what the problem is and exactly what they are doing to fix it with realistic time frames which they almost always meet or pretty damn close. Unlike Riot, which usually either A) totally pretends that nothing is wrong till usually hours have gone by an their forums have turned into a moshpit of pitchfork wielding players. Or B) They post some half ass post basically saying they have no idea what the hell is going on then leave everyone in the dark for hours and with their last epic fail I belive it was almost a full day of little to no updates at all.

    3. And finally, unlike Riot, Blizzard actually FIXES the problem. I'm sorry but anyone that has played LoL for any length of time will tell you that they have the absolute worst client and servers ever and the problems are only getting worst not better.

    And frankly anyone that compares the kinds of stress that Blizzards WoW servers have to go through on a daily basis to that of LoL is just laughable at best.  I belive at last count Blizzard had 236 realms with each realm running 6 servers at a grand total of 1416 servers...... and thats just for the US alone. Unfortunately, I couldnt really find any hard numbers on just how many servers Riot has..... but I did find this video which pretty much sums up just how the LoL playerbase feels about Riots handling of what servers they do have, lmao!

    Enjoy, ;).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYzsdBzzho






     

     Ahh... If you claim to be a player from beta you really do have some seriously red glasses. Those are beyond rose.

    WoW suffered endlessly with its release server problems. You may have been lucky and picked a server that was not severely impacted, but I know at release and for the year following release the game was in a pretty bad state as far as stability and reliability with some servers having queue times in the hours and plenty of server crashes.

    The type of game itself mitigated much of the impacts as well.

    I play LoL quite regularly. And the client and servers have gotten much much much better. Yes, there were some issues that persisted and caused quite a fuss. But honestly Riot has gotten better about communications of issues as well as setting expectations. Anyone who believes otherwise is just a hater or troll.

    Just take a look back in time. Blizzard did exactly the same thing Riot did after release of WoW. Riot isn't doing a bad job. And its growing at a blinding pace. A year ago there was no competative scene for the game and it was a joke to think of LoL as having any pro players. Now its at damn near every major gaming event.

    Put a hint of thought and perspective into the picture and you can see things for what they are and not blurred by troll bait or hate.

     

     lol, love stuff like this. For one Blizz main issue at release was that everyone and their freaking brother bought the game. No one and I mean no one could have guess just how freaking huge that first release was gonna be. At least Blizz did the right thing and pulled the game long enough to get more servers online to get caught up with the demand. Anyone that compares how stable Blizzards servers are compared to Riots knows this is a joke.  So, how about your take your fanboy Riot approved glasses off before you talk shit kiddo.

    For the rest of you out here the argurment is really simple to resolve. These Riot drone fanboys will kiss ass as long as Riots around so you'll never get any decent info out of them. Just take a casual stroll through LoLs general and support forums. After about 1 min just reading the titles of the topic threads alone you'll see just how epic fail Riot is and just the kind of playerbase they got, lol. Please, dont take my word alone for it.

    Frankly, the saddest part out of all of this is that LoL is actually a pretty fun and well put together game. The gameplay is well rounded for the most part and when the client actually works and doesnt bug out its just a fun game over all. Too bad its being wasted on a fail company like Riot.

    Troll away NightCloak. At least thats on thing that Riots little boys know how to do, ;). ByeBye.

  • scotty899scotty899 townsvillePosts: 166Member

    i love at all you people crying who think ya know it all. ppl stating their opinion like its a fact, flame me idc. 'oh i read it on the internet' so it must be true lol. i have a 'friend who works for blizzard, riot' bah. typical fan boi's who steer clear of games that mainstream play so they can think they are 'unique'. play it, dont play it. the developers don't care as long as they are making money. they are obviously good games if millions of people play them. ffs start having constructive criticism instead of flamming. yas are acting like in game mobas who i press the ignore button on and sigh at their immaturirty

  • scotty899scotty899 townsvillePosts: 166Member

    oh, and one more thing. my LoL client never fails, they are a growing company so expanding is bound to have issues. the people in the forums are just tight arses who can't afford a decent pc. the maintenance on wow and LoL are the same amount of screw around. pull ya heads in.

  • UrzaElentUrzaElent Buckeye, AZPosts: 104Member

    Originally posted by scotty899

    oh, and one more thing. my LoL client never fails, they are a growing company so expanding is bound to have issues. the people in the forums are just tight arses who can't afford a decent pc. the maintenance on wow and LoL are the same amount of screw around. pull ya heads in.

     http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1150758

    23,507 views and 457 replies at last count and thats just one of the many threads thats been doing rounds on the forums for the past few weeks.

    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=13826872#post13826872

    Funny how you think that Riots game is soooo rock solid then why does Riot post something like this? Over Half of the pollers responded with negative results aswell.

    Last, I'm sorry but LoL has been out since 09 if I'm correct. One would think that after almost 3 year and god knows how many of millions of dollars they have made they would have at least learned a little bit about how to run an online game by now. What, thats right they've been to busy pumping out skins and lame champs to much of anything else. Magma Chamber ftw, rofl.

  • CripnoahCripnoah Homestead, FLPosts: 128Member

    If they imitate LoL's business model, in which they have hero rotations, that will severly hurt the competitivity of DOTA 2. Not having access to all the tools is a big nono and its why I believe LoL can't make it as a proper e-sport. HoN when down the same lane sadly so thats going to hurt it a lot (except legacy players). The only way i see this goig f2p is if they do something similar to TF2. As long as all the heroes are available to play immediately to everyone it doesn't matter. Gabe is aware the DotA community is not one that is easy to please or one to piss off.

  • scotty899scotty899 townsvillePosts: 166Member

    27,000 is a low number compared to the 15million subscribers/players. theres a 5 mil prize pool for season 2. i dont think riot games are rock solid, and thats why it is continuesly updated and modified. i lol'd at your comment about learning to run an online game, you must be an expert but im pretty sure every online game has the same dramas. go play pokemon or monster hunter or something. stop complaining

  • UnsungTooUnsungToo Lake Worthless, FLPosts: 276Member

    If your game is all about making money then yes, you'd wanna push in that direction.

    Godspeed my fellow gamer

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Originally posted by UrzaElent

     

     

     lol, love stuff like this. For one Blizz main issue at release was that everyone and their freaking brother bought the game. No one and I mean no one could have guess just how freaking huge that first release was gonna be. At least Blizz did the right thing and pulled the game long enough to get more servers online to get caught up with the demand. Anyone that compares how stable Blizzards servers are compared to Riots knows this is a joke.  So, how about your take your fanboy Riot approved glasses off before you talk shit kiddo.

    For the rest of you out here the argurment is really simple to resolve. These Riot drone fanboys will kiss ass as long as Riots around so you'll never get any decent info out of them. Just take a casual stroll through LoLs general and support forums. After about 1 min just reading the titles of the topic threads alone you'll see just how epic fail Riot is and just the kind of playerbase they got, lol. Please, dont take my word alone for it.

    Frankly, the saddest part out of all of this is that LoL is actually a pretty fun and well put together game. The gameplay is well rounded for the most part and when the client actually works and doesnt bug out its just a fun game over all. Too bad its being wasted on a fail company like Riot.

    Troll away NightCloak. At least thats on thing that Riots little boys know how to do, ;). ByeBye.

    From an objective non-bias point of view, WoW technical support forums have more issues raised per minute than LoL support forums actually.

    You might want to double check your post because lying about something that can easily be checked won't get you far in debates.

     

    On topic, I fully expect DOTA2 to do really well and be F2P. The large names in the War3 Dota community have already said they will be moving over (more $$$ / sponsorships etc).

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • UrzaElentUrzaElent Buckeye, AZPosts: 104Member

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by UrzaElent


     

     

     lol, love stuff like this. For one Blizz main issue at release was that everyone and their freaking brother bought the game. No one and I mean no one could have guess just how freaking huge that first release was gonna be. At least Blizz did the right thing and pulled the game long enough to get more servers online to get caught up with the demand. Anyone that compares how stable Blizzards servers are compared to Riots knows this is a joke.  So, how about your take your fanboy Riot approved glasses off before you talk shit kiddo.

    For the rest of you out here the argurment is really simple to resolve. These Riot drone fanboys will kiss ass as long as Riots around so you'll never get any decent info out of them. Just take a casual stroll through LoLs general and support forums. After about 1 min just reading the titles of the topic threads alone you'll see just how epic fail Riot is and just the kind of playerbase they got, lol. Please, dont take my word alone for it.

    Frankly, the saddest part out of all of this is that LoL is actually a pretty fun and well put together game. The gameplay is well rounded for the most part and when the client actually works and doesnt bug out its just a fun game over all. Too bad its being wasted on a fail company like Riot.

    Troll away NightCloak. At least thats on thing that Riots little boys know how to do, ;). ByeBye.

    From an objective non-bias point of view, WoW technical support forums have more issues raised per minute than LoL support forums actually.

    You might want to double check your post because lying about something that can easily be checked won't get you far in debates.

     

    On topic, I fully expect DOTA2 to do really well and be F2P. The large names in the War3 Dota community have already said they will be moving over (more $$$ / sponsorships etc).

     Oh yea, surething bro. You must be one of riot boys that love thread post like http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1186424&highlight=boobs that show up on the forums all the time. Or maybe you're the type that thinks threads like this http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1150758 are not really there either. How about this poll that just came out the other day, http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1182430? Over half of the responders posted negative results, but hey, I'm lying about that too, its not really there either. 

    How about you take your own advice about talking bullshit about stuff that can be easily found, kay?

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Originally posted by UrzaElent

    Originally posted by jpnz


    Originally posted by UrzaElent


     

     

     

    From an objective non-bias point of view, WoW technical support forums have more issues raised per minute than LoL support forums actually.

    You might want to double check your post because lying about something that can easily be checked won't get you far in debates.

     

    On topic, I fully expect DOTA2 to do really well and be F2P. The large names in the War3 Dota community have already said they will be moving over (more $$$ / sponsorships etc).

     Oh yea, surething bro. You must be one of riot boys that love thread post like http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1186424&highlight=boobs that show up on the forums all the time. Or maybe you're the type that thinks threads like this http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1150758 are not really there either. How about this poll that just came out the other day, http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1182430? Over half of the responders posted negative results, but hey, I'm lying about that too, its not really there either. 

    How about you take your own advice about talking bullshit about stuff that can be easily found, kay?

    Other than personal attacks I fail to see how this post responds to the post I made above.

    You brought up LoL support forums as a measure of how 'bad' LoL stability is compared to WoW.

    I am merely pointing out that WoW has more support forum posts (therefore, more issues) so what you are saying is a lie.

    If you wish to argue something else, fine.

    But personal attacks when someone calls you out for lying (by showing facts to the contrary) doesn't really work.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • agriffin85agriffin85 West Frankfort, ILPosts: 64Member

    We saw this same exact thing with Starcraft: Broodwar > Starcraft 2.  The Broodwar market was dominated by the Korean and eastern scene, but when SC2 launched North America relized they could take over, and they did for the most part.  I think you'll see a similar patern for Dota2.  I don't think North America will ever dominate the Dota 2 scene but I think we'll have a much bigger place in it.

    The biggest difference between the two is that Dota is a hardcore team game and American players are so incredibly juvinile and bad mannered that it is difficult for NA teams to stay together long enough to accomplish much.



    *note that by North America dominating SC2 I don't neccesarily mean that NA produces the best players in the world but I'm speaking from the fact that North America dominates the market as far as sales and big tournaments.

  • agriffin85agriffin85 West Frankfort, ILPosts: 64Member

    PS. Since you made it a point to say there were no american teams in "The International" (the huge dota 2 tournament), I think you should note that 2 of the teams had American players starting for them.

  • zellmerzellmer Fakesville, WIPosts: 442Member

    Valve has denied F2P for DOTA 2 so many times lately it pains me to see this as the only article for DOTA 2, much less no forums for it..

    Articles like this are why people think it's some league of legends BS that wants to bleed you every 1-2 weeks with new heroes and all that junk..

     

  • idgaradidgarad NOwhere, MNPosts: 174Member

    The persistent problem with F2P model is the lack of deterrents to trolls and griefers. A minor application fee (even as little as $5) would go a long way to deterring the trolls and griefers. While the F2P model is attractive in many ways it is very vulnerable to a posioned player base. For DOTA2 to be competitive, starting out F2P, seems like a bad idea to me. An initial purchase price, plus being tied to a Steam account might give it a better player base then LoL by deterring a rabid base of HonLoLImmortals fanboi and the stock greifer and troll populations. Every MMO that I have seen go F2P has turned to shit pretty quick with more L2Pn00bz or Gandolf49246 or IpwnWitWZ just cluttering up the world. F2P is a great way to milk a dying MMO for a few years and for MOBA it is pretty much a  requirement but with the 800lbs gorilla of LoL to contend with, F2P might not be the ideal way to start.

     

    I would suggest a hybrid model of $10 to start, you get 3-5 stock starter champions and a pick of 3-5 expansion heroes and work from there. It creates a barrier preventing griefers and trolls from rolling 50+ accounts and burning through them until they hit a perma-ban. In LoL we have some die hard trolls that just keep coming back under new accounts. IP bans down work in a world of dynamic IPs. Temp email addresses are easy. There are no real deterrents in F2P to trolls. Slap $10 and you cull a good number of the trolls "right at the gate" so to speak.

     

    I've watch damn near every DOTA2 video I can find and I have found nothing that would make me switch from LoL to DOTA2 based on what I see. However, I also see it as an equal product (I am no fan of DOTA2's art so far, looks muddywashed out and WoW like but that is just an issue of personal taste). What would get me to switch is a better community and fewer griefers and trolls. An initial $10 for example may accomplish that. Less griefers rolls would be a strong motivator to switch. 

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,180Member Uncommon

    It is NOT a MMO so who cares?  Just another fps with minimal strategy thrown in.

  • NudalusNudalus Ottawa, ONPosts: 20Member

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    It is NOT a MMO so who cares?  Just another fps with minimal strategy thrown in.

    Obvious person who has never played dota ever.

     

    DOTA would be nice if they were F2P, leak screenshot showed a shop of some kind, which is speculated that you can buy premium skins and such.

     

    We don't know the business model that DOTA will adopt, they may still be working it out. I think it was Icefrog who said he doesn't like the idea of "SELLING" heroes, which is the LoL model. And it should be noted that the LoL model doesn't force you to buy anything, just play and you can unlock anything you want. Also there is a rotation, so you can play any hero you want.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,180Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nudalus

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    It is NOT a MMO so who cares?  Just another fps with minimal strategy thrown in.

    Obvious person who has never played dota ever.

     

    DOTA would be nice if they were F2P, leak screenshot showed a shop of some kind, which is speculated that you can buy premium skins and such.

     

    We don't know the business model that DOTA will adopt, they may still be working it out. I think it was Icefrog who said he doesn't like the idea of "SELLING" heroes, which is the LoL model. And it should be noted that the LoL model doesn't force you to buy anything, just play and you can unlock anything you want. Also there is a rotation, so you can play any hero you want.

    I have played DOTA and it is NOT a MMO, not even close.  DOTA 2 won't be either, just more of the same.

  • drazzahdrazzah SoJers, NJPosts: 444Member

    I have beta to DOTA 2. Have you ever played DOTA?  OR have you ever played HoN?

     

    Go play HoN, and thats DOTA 2 pretty much....

    image

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