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EvE- Bleeding subscriptions

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  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,655Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by GnatBug

    Also summer happens all over the planet. If its Summer in the UK its Winter in the US ... and so on. So I dont see how we can blame the weather for the sub drop unless .. 80% of the players are in the UK?

    Or am i missing somthing ... :-)

    Can you tell me which months it's Summer in the UK and Winter somewhere else on Earth? I want to mark that on my calendar.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by GnatBug



    Also summer happens all over the planet. If its Summer in the UK its Winter in the US ... and so on. So I dont see how we can blame the weather for the sub drop unless .. 80% of the players are in the UK?

    Or am i missing somthing ... :-)

    Can you tell me which months it's Summer in the UK and Winter somewher else on Earth? I want to mark that on my calendar.

    The southern hemisphere has opposite climates actually.

    So right now in Aug, it'll be Winter in Australia/NZ.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,655Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jpnz

    Originally posted by Loktofeit


    Originally posted by GnatBug



    Also summer happens all over the planet. If its Summer in the UK its Winter in the US ... and so on. So I dont see how we can blame the weather for the sub drop unless .. 80% of the players are in the UK?

    Or am i missing somthing ... :-)

    Can you tell me which months it's Summer in the UK and Winter somewher else on Earth? I want to mark that on my calendar.

    The southern hemisphere has opposite climates actually.

    So right now in Aug, it'll be Winter in Australia/NZ.

     http://www.lonelyplanet.com/australia/travel-tips-and-articles/45352  That's a rather cool tidbit of info. Thanks!

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • FelconianFelconian Cape TownPosts: 103Member

    Eve is Bleeding subs ..

    There is no dout about it. I dont think players have been satisfied with the direction of the game. And all that talk at the CSM summit was just that.... just to have the CSM go into hibernation mode..... is just a joke.

    The day has come for me or my 3 accounts which are on 6 month subscipion cycles to be renewed.... and i say.....HELL NO..! Its been 3 months now ... nothing has happened to make me feel any better about 0.0 or the direction of the game. So i will do what HILMAAAR said we should do ... and not say we will do...

    3 more long term subs gone ... Mr CCP.. !

  • WulfynWulfyn YeovilPosts: 19Member

    I'm still playing Eve and still enjoying it. But myself and my entire (admittedly small) corp are worried about the direction the game is taking. We never wanted walking in stations, it just encourages people to stay docked up instead of out in space doing things. And although people have a point in saying not to do that part of the game if you don't enjoy it, at the same time resources (which are not unlimited) that is being spent on this instead of on additional in-space content will lead to game stagnation.

    It's quite clear that CCP want Eve to take that next step in terms of popularity and money making ability by increasing the number of subs. That means giving the game a wider appeal, to move it from the niche it sits in. The problem is that players like myself who enjoy that niche game will move on to the next niche. As long as CCP keeps the overall numbers increasing then it doesn't matter if they lose some people, and I get that - it's free market capitalism. Still sucks to see something I've been a part of for 6 years go away from me.

     

    I don't think Eve will die - I think it will still be popular in 3 years' time. It just won't likely be a game that I am playing anymore. I do hope I'm wrong, as I said I'm still enjoying it right now (although I have dropped from 5 subs to 3). I'm just not optimistic.

    www.ygworlds.net

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,942Member Uncommon

    Now im comming from this as a newbie, subbing and loving the game, and it is clear that eventually i will migrate from pve to pvp, so there is fresh blood, so can I ask the question,what do long term big pvp corps think is needed long term to keep veterans interested?  

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Eve is dying again?

    To all those who are leaving... can I have your stuff?

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • SolonoSolono Toledo, OHPosts: 15Member

    While I do have some concerns, I by and large am apathetic to this stuff. I'm more concerned about their QA process and letting bugs come from SiSi which have been widely reported on making it, albeit in a dimished form, onto TQ.

     

    That, to me, is a hundred times worse than speculation about Eve becoming barbies in space because barbies in space doesn't do a damn thing to the blowing the hell out of each other mechanic while the bugs do.

  • SnowcapSnowcap Milton, WAPosts: 8Member

    I'm not sure if everyone who claims everything is fine with EVE are just trolling or what, but it should be very clear by now  that EVE numbers are abnormal. Concurrent players are clearly down, whether they recover in the fall/winter will be the big question, not whether or not they are already down.

    I've been playing this game since 2004 and there is always drama and claims EVE is dying. While I don't think EVE is in any danger of dying, I suspect CCP is heading for trouble. EVE is paying for the development of two other games and a decrease in revenue from EVE will have a big impact of CCPs finances. The years of neglect are finally showing in EVE numbers. The next 6-12 months will be critical for EVE.

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Sible HedinghamPosts: 1,673Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by jpnz


    Originally posted by Loktofeit


    Originally posted by GnatBug



    Also summer happens all over the planet. If its Summer in the UK its Winter in the US ... and so on. So I dont see how we can blame the weather for the sub drop unless .. 80% of the players are in the UK?

    Or am i missing somthing ... :-)

    Can you tell me which months it's Summer in the UK and Winter somewher else on Earth? I want to mark that on my calendar.

    The southern hemisphere has opposite climates actually.

    So right now in Aug, it'll be Winter in Australia/NZ.

     http://www.lonelyplanet.com/australia/travel-tips-and-articles/45352  That's a rather cool tidbit of info. Thanks!

    I think most of eve's subs are likely in the northern hemisphere, sort of negating the original point here.

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Sible HedinghamPosts: 1,673Member Uncommon

    I'm not sure about 'bleeding subs' but ccp gave me 5 free days to try out incarna then an offer on a months subs.  With the new ability to 'walk about' being the reason i didn't pick up said offer.  All it did for me was to create extra load time whenever i docked at a station.  Am certainly curious if anyone else playing felt the same?  And how much this new aspect is hurtin them compared to the 'cash' items.   Also always wondered how many people that threw tantrums over these items were paying for the game with plex rather than a sub?

    I did like the new turrets though.

  • MordragMOMordragMO PdamPosts: 136Member

    Originally posted by Karahandras

    I'm not sure about 'bleeding subs' but ccp gave me 5 free days to try out incarna then an offer on a months subs.  With the new ability to 'walk about' being the reason i didn't pick up said offer.  All it did for me was to create extra load time whenever i docked at a station.  Am certainly curious if anyone else playing felt the same?  And how much this new aspect is hurtin them compared to the 'cash' items.   Also always wondered how many people that threw tantrums over these items were paying for the game with plex rather than a sub?

    I did like the new turrets though.

    I used to play Eve as a trader. All I did was sit in station, buy stuff, sell stuff. Then I sold lots of ISK on ebay and got myself a new couch. Life was o-kay. The GUI was always shit (you can't even see your own order in the market window, sigh..) but I managed to deal with it.

     

    Now with Walking in Stations, I can't play anymore. I considered to come back, do some more trading, chat to people, while sitting in stations. But Eve melted down my graphics card, my framerate was horrible and I had to stare at that ugly shit all the time.

     

    No thanks. They probably fired the dev who knew about the existence of traders, the very core of their economy system, long ago. I didn't expect improvements. But now they really made it impossible for some of us to continue.

  • SilverbarrSilverbarr AberdeenPosts: 306Member

    Originally posted by MordragMO

    Originally posted by Karahandras

    I'm not sure about 'bleeding subs' but ccp gave me 5 free days to try out incarna then an offer on a months subs.  With the new ability to 'walk about' being the reason i didn't pick up said offer.  All it did for me was to create extra load time whenever i docked at a station.  Am certainly curious if anyone else playing felt the same?  And how much this new aspect is hurtin them compared to the 'cash' items.   Also always wondered how many people that threw tantrums over these items were paying for the game with plex rather than a sub?

    I did like the new turrets though.

    I used to play Eve as a trader. All I did was sit in station, buy stuff, sell stuff. Then I sold lots of ISK on ebay and got myself a new couch. Life was o-kay. The GUI was always shit (you can't even see your own order in the market window, sigh..) but I managed to deal with it.

     

    Now with Walking in Stations, I can't play anymore. I considered to come back, do some more trading, chat to people, while sitting in stations. But Eve melted down my graphics card, my framerate was horrible and I had to stare at that ugly shit all the time.

     

    No thanks. They probably fired the dev who knew about the existence of traders, the very core of their economy system, long ago. I didn't expect improvements. But now they really made it impossible for some of us to continue.

    You can go into graphic settings and change the stations to just being the old version I think, only just installed EVE on my intel integrated graphics card laptop and even though the station walking is fine with the graphics lowered (also still very pretty too) but I'm positive I saw the option to forgo the graphical interpretation of the stations for the "older" method...

     

    M

    "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys. Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!"
    - Sun Tzu, the Art of War

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  • Kaelaan21Kaelaan21 Woburn, MAPosts: 349Member Uncommon

    I used to play Eve as a trader. All I did was sit in station, buy stuff, sell stuff. Then I sold lots of ISK on ebay and got myself a new couch. Life was o-kay. The GUI was always shit (you can't even see your own order in the market window, sigh..) but I managed to deal with it.

     

    Now with Walking in Stations, I can't play anymore. I considered to come back, do some more trading, chat to people, while sitting in stations. But Eve melted down my graphics card, my framerate was horrible and I had to stare at that ugly shit all the time.

     

    No thanks. They probably fired the dev who knew about the existence of traders, the very core of their economy system, long ago. I didn't expect improvements. But now they really made it impossible for some of us to continue.

    Although I wasn't a trader when I first started 7 years ago, I don't ever remember a time when you couldn't see your own order in the market window. In fact, they even have a tab in the Market UI to see only your own orders. My only gripe about the UI was that the 2d overlay would tend to lag in fleet combat. The Market UI is pretty good, but I wish you could customize the font sizes and colors of each of the individual panes of the market ui.

     

    As for people's graphics cards, well .. yeah .. if you are using the same graphics card you used 4 years ago and turn on all the effects, expect it to be a slide show. Same goes for large scale fleet combat in space. The new effects they added a year ago forced people to either upgrade or turn off a lot of the effects. But then again, it's the same with any evolving game engine.

     

    Personally, I wish they had an option for an overlay when docked in the station. Require a reboot to turn it on and off and it would still be okay. It would prevent the lag time for those who do market hauling and people blitzing missions. I would even be okay if it wasn't the old hanger. Just a fixed background image of the racial station type and a menu system.

  • MordragMOMordragMO PdamPosts: 136Member

    Originally posted by Kaelaan21

    Although I wasn't a trader when I first started 7 years ago, I don't ever remember a time when you couldn't see your own order in the market window. In fact, they even have a tab in the Market UI to see only your own orders. My only gripe about the UI was that the 2d overlay would tend to lag in fleet combat. The Market UI is pretty good, but I wish you could customize the font sizes and colors of each of the individual panes of the market ui.

     

    As for people's graphics cards, well .. yeah .. if you are using the same graphics card you used 4 years ago and turn on all the effects, expect it to be a slide show. Same goes for large scale fleet combat in space. The new effects they added a year ago forced people to either upgrade or turn off a lot of the effects. But then again, it's the same with any evolving game engine.

     

    Personally, I wish they had an option for an overlay when docked in the station. Require a reboot to turn it on and off and it would still be okay. It would prevent the lag time for those who do market hauling and people blitzing missions. I would even be okay if it wasn't the old hanger. Just a fixed background image of the racial station type and a menu system.

    In the normal window with the buy/sell orders, not in the "my orders" screen. If you think the market UI is pretty good, or ANYTHING in the Eve UI, well. Uh. Nice for you. I'm not passionate enough about Eve anymore to discuss this out. :D

     

    Try to manage 250 region-wide orders from different stations. Then you'll get a foretaste of hell.

     

    Imagine this:

     

     

    This would be convenience. See the difference?

  • Binny45Binny45 St John''s, NFPosts: 478Member Uncommon

    I used to love this game until CCP started focusing on the wrong stuff.

    They should have left null sec alone, dropped the Incarna BS and FOCUSED ON HIGH SEC/LOW SEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Why? Because Null Sec is/was exciting and fun but it required a lot of time.  High/Low Sec is boring and dull and would easily turn any new player away if they didn't know better.

    Because of the jump bridge changes, I gave up on null sec.  To me it was a slap in the face to those that worked at making null sec work while pandering to the griefers.  Cry me a river I know, so instead of pissing and moaning about it I spoke with my wallet and cancelled my accounts.

    Seems to me I'm not the only one and it's about damn time.

    image

  • Kaelaan21Kaelaan21 Woburn, MAPosts: 349Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MordragMO

    In the normal window with the buy/sell orders, not in the "my orders" screen. If you think the market UI is pretty good, or ANYTHING in the Eve UI, well. Uh. Nice for you. I'm not passionate enough about Eve anymore to discuss this out. :D

     

    Try to manage 250 region-wide orders from different stations. Then you'll get a foretaste of hell.

     

    Imagine this:

     

    image

     

    This would be convenience. See the difference?

    I see what your saying. Your orders do show up in the Details tab under Buyers and Sellers it's that you just can't distinguish them from one another. I personally haven't had too much of an issue of this as I do not typically sell more than a single item of the same type. When I click on my own orders tab, I see what the price is and then click on view details and look for the matching order with that exact price. No biggie for me as I only have a few dozen orders. However, someone with 250 orders - I see what you mean.

     

    What you are talking about may have not been possible with the existing system though. It's such a simple idea that can make a huge impact for traders, but think about it. The old 2d system was so old and antiquated that more than likely, some of the color information was hard coded index colors rather than an rgb selection. I wonder with the new system if they will be able to easily change it around now that the interface is an isolated script.

     

    I also wonder how easy it would be to hack the isolated script to make changes to the UI ourselves. Anyway, I wasn't necessarily saying the UI was great. I just didn't find anything wrong with the interface I use as I am not hindered in any way. But, that doesn't mean that other people aren't.

    Edit: Typo

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Vets are always quitting all games, and usually bitching about how the game was better years ago. If there are no updates vets quit, bitching about how the developers don't care.

    I started playing Eve a couple of weeks ago, I am having a blast! There are a lot of new players in the rookie channel (along with numerous alts), our cash is just as good to CCP as an 8 year vets. The vet might have 6 accounts but they pay for 5 with isk rather than fresh cash, I imagine it is the newer player and those not quitting who buy the plex.

    There is usually 37k players when I log in at European evening time.

    People get bored of the same game and leave all the time, just do it gracefully and use your energies to build a new life in a new world.
  • MordragMOMordragMO PdamPosts: 136Member

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Vets are always quitting all games, and usually bitching about how the game was better years ago. If there are no updates vets quit, bitching about how the developers don't care. I started playing Eve a couple of weeks ago, I am having a blast! There are a lot of new players in the rookie channel (along with numerous alts), our cash is just as good to CCP as an 8 year vets. The vet might have 6 accounts but they pay for 5 with isk rather than fresh cash, I imagine it is the newer player and those not quitting who buy the plex. There is usually 37k players when I log in at European evening time. People get bored of the same game and leave all the time, just do it gracefully and use your energies to build a new life in a new world.

     

    Hm.

    Every subscription is paid for with cash, bro. Plex or not. Someone else pays for the plex people. With real cash. Always. Just saying. :)

     

    True observation about the vets, of course.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by MordragMO


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Vets are always quitting all games, and usually bitching about how the game was better years ago. If there are no updates vets quit, bitching about how the developers don't care. I started playing Eve a couple of weeks ago, I am having a blast! There are a lot of new players in the rookie channel (along with numerous alts), our cash is just as good to CCP as an 8 year vets. The vet might have 6 accounts but they pay for 5 with isk rather than fresh cash, I imagine it is the newer player and those not quitting who buy the plex. There is usually 37k players when I log in at European evening time. People get bored of the same game and leave all the time, just do it gracefully and use your energies to build a new life in a new world.

     

    Hm.

    Every subscription is paid for with cash, bro. Plex or not. Someone else pays for the plex people. With real cash. Always. Just saying. :)

     

    True observation about the vets, of course.

     

    I said in my post that quitting vets paid with isk, but it was the newer players who bought the plex, that's the bit CCP care about.
  • SulaaSulaa nPosts: 1,151Member Common

    Ok. Many will not agree with me that's fine , but putting practically an ability of buying gold/isk and then putting MT in a hardcore sandbox mmorpg is a failure. Sure CCP needed cash so they did put PLEX idea , that surely increased revenue , then problem arose with many unused plex floating and stashed ingame with increasing number of people using those payed-long-ago-plex to fund current play time. So to counter that and to test graphical engine and pricing model for their 'caring-most-about' project = microtransaction based World of Darkness , they put NeX.

    So all of that combined with no true content and mechanic udates to spaceshis mean slowly bleeding active players and even more pl switching to isk bough plexes instead of cash play.

    You say all Plexes are bught with rl? Sure but there is alot of stashed /bough long ago plexes so this is hurting their current cash flow.

    Surely though stopping playing comletly hurt them x10 times more though.

     

    Eve is starting to go downwards , bye bye Eve.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    There has been one constant, and that is the EVE's active playerbase numbers.

    This is a big problem as essentially, all the work that has been done over the past 2 years (seriously, how many hours/money did Incarna cost?) was just enough for the status quo.

    Here's something by one of the bloggers for EVE.

    http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2011/08/some-curves-arent.html

    TLDR; 2.4% increase in 30months. That is awful. C'mon, this isn't WoW where you can lose 1M here and there and still have 9M+ subs. This is a game that has 300-400k subs max.

     

    This is a post by 'The Mittani', the chairman of the CSM that back up those numbers and the really big issue with EVE.

    http://www.kugutsumen.com/content.php?198-Goonswarm-Federation-The-Last-Bastion-Of-True-Gooniness

    TLDR; No new content over the past 2 years for FLYING IN SPACE.

     

    The problem in a nutshell, in one sentence came out in the 2011 EVE Fanfest.

    'Where the F--- are the spaceships?!'

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,989Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Originally posted by MordragMO

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Vets are always quitting all games, and usually bitching about how the game was better years ago. If there are no updates vets quit, bitching about how the developers don't care. I started playing Eve a couple of weeks ago, I am having a blast! There are a lot of new players in the rookie channel (along with numerous alts), our cash is just as good to CCP as an 8 year vets. The vet might have 6 accounts but they pay for 5 with isk rather than fresh cash, I imagine it is the newer player and those not quitting who buy the plex. There is usually 37k players when I log in at European evening time. People get bored of the same game and leave all the time, just do it gracefully and use your energies to build a new life in a new world.

     

    Hm.

    Every subscription is paid for with cash, bro. Plex or not. Someone else pays for the plex people. With real cash. Always. Just saying. :)

     

    True observation about the vets, of course.

     

    I said in my post that quitting vets paid with isk, but it was the newer players who bought the plex, that's the bit CCP care about.

    Actually, the PLEX economy in EVE is a fragile thing, if too many vets who buy PLEX leave the game the amount of ISK a newer player receives for selling a PLEX will fall through the floor, and not many will be want to sell one if only receiving 100K ISK for it.

    This will in turn make the game less fun for new players and may even increase the number of folks turning to the illegal ISK markets.

    CCP should care about whether or not VETs leave.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran


    Originally posted by RefMinor


    Originally posted by MordragMO


    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Vets are always quitting all games, and usually bitching about how the game was better years ago. If there are no updates vets quit, bitching about how the developers don't care. I started playing Eve a couple of weeks ago, I am having a blast! There are a lot of new players in the rookie channel (along with numerous alts), our cash is just as good to CCP as an 8 year vets. The vet might have 6 accounts but they pay for 5 with isk rather than fresh cash, I imagine it is the newer player and those not quitting who buy the plex. There is usually 37k players when I log in at European evening time. People get bored of the same game and leave all the time, just do it gracefully and use your energies to build a new life in a new world.

     

    Hm.

    Every subscription is paid for with cash, bro. Plex or not. Someone else pays for the plex people. With real cash. Always. Just saying. :)

     

    True observation about the vets, of course.

     

    I said in my post that quitting vets paid with isk, but it was the newer players who bought the plex, that's the bit CCP care about.

    Actually, the PLEX economy in EVE is a fragile thing, if too many vets who buy PLEX leave the game the amount of ISK a newer player receives for selling a PLEX will fall through the floor, and not many will be want to sell one if only receiving 100K ISK for it.

    This will in turn make the game less fun for new players and may even increase the number of folks turning to the illegal ISK markets.

    CCP should care about whether or not VETs leave.

     

    Plex currently sells at 370m, if it trades at 100k eve would already be closed
  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,942Member Uncommon

    It it got to 100k CCP would have to step in and mix things up - may be a blessing in disguise if the universe breaks down into civil war :)

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

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