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God! Devil! do certain names offend you if they are used in the lore?

MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon

do certain religious linked names offend you if they are used in the lore?



Would the masses be offended if a writer of the Game lore, were to label a evil race as "Devils"?



I am curious of what people feel on this matter.



For example; Warcraft: Blizzard had to change things in the lore, and remove Holy God from the lore, and also removing holy Crosses from the Armor concepts. In my personal belief, it was done to make religious people happy in fear of rebellion.



kinda silly actually, when you think about the fact that they have a game called "Diablo".



But lets say I had a race of creatures in my IP similar to Demons in WoW, but mine were called Devils, or some other dark religious term.



Would that be a bad idea?

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Comments

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,924Member Uncommon

    I'm not offended by religious references, either for religions that I do regard or for those I do not.

     

    Probably the worst offense I can imagine is when references are used incorrectly or grossly in contradiction with their application in a specific religion.

     

    What I find humorous is that I've spotted many religious references in games, tucked nicely into lore and unlikely to be spotted except for those who happen to have studied the religion.  Sort of like an easter egg secret message from an esoteric.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • VarthanderVarthander BarcelonaPosts: 471Member

    Well i just laugh when i see the tipical LUCIFER_666, nothing more than that just laughs.

    image

  • axylfyreaxylfyre bugtussel, TXPosts: 33Member

    Religion has no place in games, period.

  • Osias000Osias000 Lenox, MIPosts: 110Member

    I just think its not very creative to use bible lore. People can think up something more interesting. I can't stand reading it as is, I don't want to see it in a game.

    I however would not be offended by it. Though, I'm sure a lot of people would be.

    "cinnamon buns"
    - Pickles

  • ZoeMcCloskeyZoeMcCloskey Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,148Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by axylfyre

    Religion has no place in games, period.

    Religion has a huge spot in games.  But I only mean fantasy religions that are a part of the lore.

    Real world religion should be kept 100% out of games.  People play to escape from real life more often than not.

    image
  • KhrymsonKhrymson Eorzea, MOPosts: 3,090Member

    It bugs me when there is too much references to a particular god or you're forced down a religious path to play the game. {real world religions, I don't mind the fake ones to coincide with the lore}

     

    And this is as good as anywhere to bring it up, but why did damn near every RPG of the past require that you stop by a church to cure yourself or heal ailments?  Why couldn't I stop by the local titty bar to regain my stamina instead...ROFL  {its a joke, lighten up}

  • PTEDPTED ReykjavikPosts: 464Member

    Are there really enough gamers that are religious enough to complain left in the Western world?

    I know that in Australia, less than 10% of people (somewhere around the 7 or 8% mark) so much as attend church and that religion in general just isn't a big factor any more in a lot of Western countries.

    So no, it's not a bad idea. Although I agree with the statement that it isn't very creative.


    Why couldn't I stop by the local titty bar to regain my stamina instead...ROFL {its a joke, lighten up}


    ;) GTA

  • XexvXexv Milton KeynesPosts: 308Member

    No and I'm having trouble imagining a gamer that would be offended, honestly. Regardless of your opinion on it religion is a part of the human experience, why deliberately restrict yourself from a source of inspiration.

    Incidentally the gamers that would gripe when religion makes a showing in a game because they don't agree with it are just as tedious.

  • CorehavenCorehaven Colorado Springs, COPosts: 1,538Member

    But demons are a religious term.  Not just of one religion but many.   A flower by any other name is still a flower.   If you called them devils so what? 

     

    And Diablo2 even had an angel in it, but they put their own spin on it and it was pretty cool.  It was one of most interesting spins Ive ever seen on an angel in a game.   Its a fantasty and its understood.  Ive never heard of anyone getting offended because they put their own spin on God or the Devil in a video game.  Tons of games have done this.  Movies too. 

     

    The archangel Tyriel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwTgQ6e30fA&feature=related

     

    I think there can be a context where it gets taken too far and may offend some people.  Like God being evil and the Devil actually being a hero, and you play a character where angels are trying to kill you.  But its just a game, nothing more, so its okay I suppose.   I think some people who are offended just like being sensitive. 

     

  • MitchardMitchard Spring Valley, CAPosts: 25Member

    No! Next topic.

  • RabenwolfRabenwolf Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,445Member

    Originally posted by Corehaven

    But demons are a religious term.  Not just of one religion but many.   A flower by any other name is still a flower.   If you called them devils so what? 

     

    Indeed, and it is also important to note that in many of the cultures which accepted the concept of "evil" or "malicious" beings (such as devils), it wasnt considered religious but just a fact of reality to them.

    Just as they knew there were fish in the ocean, they knew also there were "devils" or evil spirits out there. It was a reality, not a choice of religion for them. This is important for many fantasy themed narratives as well (as opposed to science fiction).

    What it comes down to is Mythology. Its a field of study, its part of every culture and human nature to the core. There are patterns that exist within Mythology regardless of what naming conventions they are given.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    I think a game would have to make an effort to actually offend me with a name. It would have to be a fairly obvious and vulgar attempt at being insulting.

    But to answer the question, if I were a developer, I'd try to avoid having modern religious icons, imagery or names in any game I developed. It would be nearly impossible to not insult somebody. Someone would be insulted that you put their religious 'stuff' in a game. Someone else would be insulted that you didn't put theirs in. Someone would be insulted that you put something religious in the game that could possibly be interpreted as taking religion seriously and someone else would be insulted that you didn't appear to be taking it seriously enough.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • KabaalKabaal Edinburgh, ScotlandPosts: 3,012Member Uncommon

    The masses would indeed find a way to see themselves wronged. Many of us may be open minded in this day and age but we still don't compete against those who aren't. I think the OP makes a good point.

    Faith is a great thing but something i'd rather put in my fellows than something imagined. Just as i'd rather not see people squabble over names used ;)

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,460Member Uncommon

    I think it's an awful idea but not because of being offended.

    It's because, depending on the reference, it's cliched or overused.

    Of course if you wrap it up with an interesting game with interesting game play then no one will really notice but if you are just going to call a creature a "pit devil" or a "Devil Child" then it's kind of been done before.

    I would first ask if there was something else you could call it?

    Any word you use is going to conjure up some mental reference. Because of this you have a lot of control in how you present your world to your player (reader).

    if you use a word that has been overused your reader, or player in this case, might summarily dismiss it as it lacks "punch".

    There is a reason the word "devil" is devil.

    I would immerse yourself in the words you use, know where the words actually come from and why they are what they are.

    This is the difference between a bad to average writer and a good writer. A good writer just doesn't slap a word in some place and leave it at that. A good writer picks his or her words/names with great care. They are the signposts of the story and the lore and the world and they help create a mood in the reader's mind.

    I didn't vote because I didn't want to skew your poll.

  • NIIINIII Pikeville, KYPosts: 113Member

    Generally speaking, real world religion should not be in games.

    Lore religion is okay, but isn't required.

     

    I personally want nothing to do with real world religion, but this isn't why I think it shouldn't be in games.

    In my opinion, unless the game is set on the planet Earth, inhabited by historic or modern humans, and revolves around historical concepts, it is extremely hard to believe the same religion would be in place on another planet, who knows where in the universe, filled with walking dead, orcs, cow people, elves, and if i may, smurf-goat-davy jones. (best way i've ever heard it put, thanks Nyhm!)

     

    The game should revolve around it's own lore, all else to me is just lazy on the developer's part.

     

    That being said, I have only a slight problem with Zhang Jiao, spamming me in Dynasty Warriors about the heavens. (the problem isn't even with the religion, more or less the sexual motions he's making at me with that staff)

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,924Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by lizardbones

    It would be nearly impossible to not insult somebody.

     

    Isn't that the truth.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Corehaven

    But demons are a religious term.  Not just of one religion but many.   A flower by any other name is still a flower.   If you called them devils so what? 

     

    And Diablo2 even had an angel in it, but they put their own spin on it and it was pretty cool.  It was one of most interesting spins Ive ever seen on an angel in a game.   Its a fantasty and its understood.  Ive never heard of anyone getting offended because they put their own spin on God or the Devil in a video game.  Tons of games have done this.  Movies too. 

     

    The archangel Tyriel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwTgQ6e30fA&feature=related

      

    I think there can be a context where it gets taken too far and may offend some people.  Like God being evil and the Devil actually being a hero, and you play a character where angels are trying to kill you.  But its just a game, nothing more, so its okay I suppose.   I think some people who are offended just like being sensitive. 

     

     

    Hey that remind me of Darksider I notice

    image

  • alakramalakram malagaPosts: 2,223Member Uncommon

    Im a religious person and i dont feel offended by having references to my religion in games but I understand some people may feel offended. If I were a game developer I will avoid this kind of stuff, just in case.

    -=AlaKraM=-
    Don't fight against poverty, fight against greed.
    My Lord of the Rings Gallery

  • phantiasmicphantiasmic jacksonville, FLPosts: 38Member

    These days EVERYTHING is offensive. You can barely get away with saying "boo" without someone crying it is offensive.

    I am a very firm believer in not labeling things as offensive unless it is 100% directed at you or someone you love.

    Same person who can talk about how much they love and value freedom is same person who would hear a word and gab a pitchfork and chase down someone because they said BOO!

    - I have played Everquest, DAOC, Shadowbane, WoW, Aion, Rift, SW Galaxies, Planetside and Guild Wars (all expacs)

  • SulaaSulaa nPosts: 1,151Member Common

    Yeah political correctness should go down the toilet.

     

    You realized that f.e. religion is almost not used in a games not even mention mmorpg's? It could be a great add-on if done smartly.

    So no anyone can use anything in a game , I don't care really. Well maybe one thing I care.

     

    It should NOT be used to simply stirr some controversy.

     

    It should be used as a one of fictional world element , nicely fitted into a world. Then it is okay , even if it is "shown" in a bad light. It is all ok ,as long as it makes sense and is not cheap sensation.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,671Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Varthander

    Well i just laugh when i see the tipical LUCIFER_666, nothing more than that just laughs.

    I'm intersted in seeing a devil race because it would be funny to see how many variations on the spelling of Lucifer and Baal one could possibly have in a game.

    Devils probably are a bad idea for a player race in most cases since good practice is that you don't paint any one faction as bad or wrong unless you are specifically marking them as villains (example: City of Villains). 

    An evil NPC race as devils or demons? The devil as an enemy? Has never been a problem that I know of. Minions and masters of Hell are right up there with nazis and destructible environements on the list of cool things to obliterate.

    Devil gear? Wings, horns, pitchforks and tails have been common extras in many F2P MMOs, the same as halos and angel wings. Never really saw an outcry of any kind.

    As for Biblical lore, I'm with Oasis in that it really is rather uncreative. It makes more sense to hire a slightly more talented content team and avoid the problems you'd otherwise create for yourself using existing lore. For example, using Biblical lore, you're painting yourself into a corner because of established tenets and literature.

     

    Did you see an anrticle or thread somewhere that people were upset at these things?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • anemoanemo Posts: 762Member Uncommon

    I believe God and god have very different intonations.

    God - something capable of creating a "soul" and a universe

    god - anything sufficently powerful enough that nothing exists that will dispute it that will make it stop calling itself one, and those that do can't make itself stop calling itself a god.  (rise and fall of countries, creation of new races, and maybe changing souls/time/memory)

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "There are still vast swaths of our planet's surface in which it's surprisingly easy to lose things. Even a ship the size of a large building." Richard Fisher

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