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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Sex & Games & Rolling Dice

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  • C04LC04L AberystwythPosts: 22Member

    when i played Dragon Age, i made the mistake of talking a little too much to Zevran.

    as alot of people found out, he's a bit of a loose tart! all you gotta do is look at him and his innuendo's start pouring out.

    It didnt offend me in the least, after all, each to their own. i beleive that each person has a right to the way they feel towards another human being IRL - or alien in the case of ME....

    Star Wars The Old Republic is an MMORPG. (with an emphasis on mmo) - what will the repacutions be?

    I mean, there was all this uproar on the wow forums many months back about identities and abuse, beleive it or not the "21st century people" are sadly a minority when it comes to ananimity, and there will be mean, hatefull abuse towards people, with adding 'phobes in the mix how would you police it, how would you prepare for the press explosion that would incuur when a kid comits suicide cause players hassel'd him/her so much... gods forbid!

    I'm just trying to say the world is slowly coming round to the rights of GL etc etc and putting lighter fluid on a hot topic causes more harm than good, imo.

    I think Bioware decided that there would be too much damage, beit emotional or real world politics. its a game and its not worth it.

    I'm straight, but Captain Jack rules! /cheer

  • scottec1425scottec1425 Nixa, MOPosts: 64Member

    Who honestly cares, Its a game, as its been stated many times BW didnt put any same sex in any other Star wars game, why would they add it hear? Just because ME1-2 and Dragon Age, had it, dont mean every game out there is gonna start having it made by BW. If the Gay and Lesbian community is worried that there avatar in a game cant have a same sex relationship and the only real options are to have relationships with opisit sex, im sure they just wont go down the romance lines. You dont have to presue realtionships in BW games. You can all just be friends, no where in the game does it say you have to have sex with any of your team mates, or randome bar fly chick/guy. im sure the game wouldent force you into a relationship.

  • NifaNifa Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 324Member

    It could be EA/BioWare and the drama it caused in DA. IIRC, the Story lead had to defend his choice to include it in DA and he did so admirably.

    It could also be LA. Though same-sex relationships have been included in the EU, they've never been a part of G canon (Lucas has never included them in anything he has written. The books are, in fact, canon, but a lower level of canon than G canon, which is the granddaddy of all Star Wars canon, as it was written by Lucas himself. Source: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon). Same sex relationships have been hinted at in games (Juhani) and directly included in books (Karen Traviss specifically stated that two of her Mandalorians were, in fact, in a long-term, loving, homosexual relationship), but Lucas himself has never directly included same-sex relationships in G canon level materials.

    Lucas tends to avoid controversy. Evangelicals would certainly crucify him and the Star Wars brand if he directly included same sex relationships in his brand. Is it right? No. But bigotry has never been about what is right or just, nor has predjudice ever been sensible.

    Punishing Lucas, BioWare, or EA in this instance is illogical. It is just as illogical as it would be for evangelicals to punish them if they included same sex relationships.

    Several solutions have been offered. One is to create a female character with attributes that are as masculine as you can possibly make them (or a male character with attributes as female as you can possibly make them). Alternately, if you are a roleplayer or if the tools exist in game, write your own story. Your character's development and relationship need not be solely within the environment the game gives you. If it did, there wouldn't be bookstores with shelves full of gaming related novels.

    Firebrand Art

    "You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman

    Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr

  • BreathertonBreatherton Orange, TXPosts: 5Member Common

    I don't see the point in getting all up in arms about this.  For one, it is thier game.  They made it, they are selling it, and if it has something you do not like either in it or not in it, we in USA live in a free capitalist society that allows us to either buy or not buy something.  After it comes out if enough people think this is a problem the game won't sell very well or last very long.  Again, Bioware decided they wouldn't add it, end of story.  Stop being all affended for nothing and grow a backbone.

  • lareslocilaresloci Colville, WAPosts: 372Member Common

    We can go around in a game murdering, maiming & killing but any kind of sex is taboo...give me a break.

    Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines

    image
  • scottec1425scottec1425 Nixa, MOPosts: 64Member
    Yeah, cause starwars is filled with sex sceens, or blood and gore for that matter. Sure you might talk about blood and gore but you don't see it, you do see killing but I'm sure the devs are shooting for a teen rating.
  • marquisk2marquisk2 Somerville, NJPosts: 141Member

    The game is their idea.  Why would anyone try and force them to change their idea?  Make your own game or find another.

  • scottec1425scottec1425 Nixa, MOPosts: 64Member

    I have no clue what hes talking about but it creeps me out.

  • AmanaAmana New York, NYPosts: 2,538Moderator Uncommon

    Going to temporarily lock this while we sort through it. After then, we'll make a decision on reopening comments.

     

    To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  • AmanaAmana New York, NYPosts: 2,538Moderator Uncommon

    Okay, we are unlocking this one again. 

     

    Please remember that this is a gaming forum, so please stick to the topic of the game and avoid bringing religion and politics or any form of hateful comments. Stating disagreement with the decision or agreement with it does not require delving into a right or wrong debate. We have a diverse community here and we presume that there can be civil discussion.

    To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  • cali59cali59 B, NYPosts: 1,634Member

    In my mind, consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to with each other (behind closed doors anyway).  The message behind that is not only one of minding your own business, but one of tolerance.  It's 2011.  Aren't we all supposed to be equal and free from persecution and prejudice due to race, sex, creed, disability, sexual orientation or whatever?

    If a game doesn't want to include any sexual activity because they don't want to expose it to children, then to me that's one thing.  Notice the phrase "consenting adults" in the first line of my post.  Some themes are more mature than others and that's why we have ratings systems and hopefully parents who monitor what entertainment their kids consume.

    However, if you're including heterosexual sexual activity in your game and deliberately not allowing homosexuality, then either the developer/producer is saying that homosexuality is not ok or they're afraid of offending the bigoted.  Don't give me any of that "they wanted to save money" crap, this is EA we're talking about.  Whatever the reason, whether it's cowardice, eyeing the bottom line, or just plain bigotry, it's wrong.

    People who believe in equality should really think about whether they want to support companies that don't.

     

    "Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true – you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007

  • NifaNifa Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 324Member

    Originally posted by cali59

    In my mind, consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to with each other (behind closed doors anyway).  The message behind that is not only one of minding your own business, but one of tolerance.  It's 2011.  Aren't we all supposed to be equal and free from persecution and prejudice due to race, sex, creed, disability, sexual orientation or whatever?

    If a game doesn't want to include any sexual activity because they don't want to expose it to children, then to me that's one thing.  Notice the phrase "consenting adults" in the first line of my post.  Some themes are more mature than others and that's why we have ratings systems and hopefully parents who monitor what entertainment their kids consume.

    However, if you're including heterosexual sexual activity in your game and deliberately not allowing homosexuality, then either the developer/producer is saying that homosexuality is not ok or they're afraid of offending the bigoted.  Don't give me any of that "they wanted to save money" crap, this is EA we're talking about.  Whatever the reason, whether it's cowardice, eyeing the bottom line, or just plain bigotry, it's wrong.

    People who believe in equality should really think about whether they want to support companies that don't.

     

    You hit this right on the head, Cali. "Consenting adults" and "behind closed doors."

    We've all been around the proverbial MMORPG block a time or two. First, how many MMORPGs are played by, or marketed to, "consenting adults" anymore? The average age requirement to belong to any game forum - including this one, I believe, is thirteen years old. Generally speaking, that is also the age required to own an account provided the player has parental permission (or some means of paying for that account such as their own checking account).

    Now, do not misunderstand me and think that I am saying that 13 is too young to learn that a lot of people in the world (myself included) are perfectly okay with the idea that people should be able to love whomever they love, regardless of what gender they are. But a lot of people still think 13 may be too young for that, and that should be okay too, in my opinion - to each his/her own.

    Second, because we have all been around the proverbial MMO block, I think we can safely say that we know that, unless moderation in TOR is far and above moderation in any other MMO ever since the dawn of MMOs, no relationship will ever be fully "behind closed doors." Whether by accident or deliberately, there will be cybering. Most of us will choose to ignore it, but it will exist. It may slip via mistell into group chat (seen that happen a time or twenty - it's amusing until you actually do have a thirteen year old kid in the group whose parents happen to walk in and see that and, as guild leader, you are explaining to the mother and father exactly what the situation was that caused that to happen), or it may turn out that a region on Nar Shaddaa turns out to be the equivalent of Moonguard's Goldshire.

    If the gripe is indeed about equality, again, I recommend folks take it up with LucasArts. BioWare and EA have proven time and time again that they are very supportive of equal rights and same-sex relationships. David Gaider, of Bioware, on same-sex relationships in Dragon Age 2 (developed, published, and distributed under EA):



    "The romances in the game are not for "the straight male gamer". They're for everyone. We have a lot of fans, many of whom are neither straight nor male, and they deserve no less attention. We have good numbers, after all, on the number of people who actually used similar sorts of content in DAO and thus don't need to resort to anecdotal evidence to support our idea that their numbers are not insignificant... and that's ignoring the idea that they don't have just as much right to play the kind of game they wish as anyone else. The "rights" of anyone with regards to a game are murky at best, but anyone who takes that stance must apply it equally to both the minority as well as the majority. The majority has no inherent "right" to get more options than anyone else.



    ...Romances are never one-size-fits-all, and even for those who don't mind the sexuality issue there's no guarantee they'll find a character they even want to romance. That's why romances are optional content. It's such a personal issue that we'll never be able to please everyone. The very best we can do is give everyone a little bit of choice, and that's what we tried here.



    And the person who says that the only way to please them is to restrict options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least. And that's my opinion, expressed as politely as possible."

    Source: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6661775&lf=8

    Firebrand Art

    "You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman

    Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr

  • CannyoneCannyone Albuquerque, NMPosts: 263Member

    I guess I'm a bit confused by the hoopla... People want to have same sex romances, with "Companions" in SWTOR?  Why?  Just because they had that in Dragon age?  This is an MMORPG for crying out loud.  If they want to have a same sex relationship why not have one with another player?  Are they such loosers that they have to get their "love" from a "companion"?  Or, a better way to put it, are they just so socially inept that they have insist BioWare provide a "simulated relationship" just for them?

    Seems like a really self centered concern to me... I'd rather they work on "other content" personally.  Like incorporating more character customization options.  Or custominzing your ship in various ways.  Or expanding the Space game... The list gets really long really fast.  And Everybody is more likely to appreciate the value of those things.  Instead of spending valuable time developing content which will most likely not have universal appeal.

    I mean I could see what they did in Dragon age.  But there your primary interactions were with your companions.  SWTOR should be different if for no other reason that it is designed to be a multiplayer experience.  That's the part that makes this topic so bizzare.

  • cali59cali59 B, NYPosts: 1,634Member

    Originally posted by Cannyone

    I guess I'm a bit confused by the hoopla... People want to have same sex romances, with "Companions" in SWTOR?  Why?  Just because they had that in Dragon age?  This is an MMORPG for crying out loud.  If they want to have a same sex relationship why not have one with another player?  Are they such loosers that they have to get their "love" from a "companion"?  Or, a better way to put it, are they just so socially inept that they have insist BioWare provide a "simulated relationship" just for them?

    Seems like a really self centered concern to me... I'd rather they work on "other content" personally.  Like incorporating more character customization options.  Or custominzing your ship in various ways.  Or expanding the Space game... The list gets really long really fast.  And Everybody is more likely to appreciate the value of those things.  Instead of spending valuable time developing content which will most likely not have universal appeal.

    I mean I could see what they did in Dragon age.  But there your primary interactions were with your companions.  SWTOR should be different if for no other reason that it is designed to be a multiplayer experience.  That's the part that makes this topic so bizzare.

    It's about equality.  Let's look at your first paragraph.  Heterosexual options for companions exist but you have no problem with them.  However, you think any homosexual should seek out other players for their romance because it's an MMORPG and that they're losers if they want to have a game supported story romance option from a companion.  If you want to argue that nobody should want this option because anybody who does is a loser, that's fine, but there is a real double standard here if you're ok with it for heterosexuals but not homosexuals.

    As far as your second paragraph, you're not putting yourself in someone else's shoes.  Presuming you're a heterosexual, options for you are already in the game, so you're not interested in homosexual options, they aren't for you.  You want to see them work on the part of the game you are interested in and you justify those by saying they have universal appeal.  However, you have to realize that they already spent valuable time on something that doesn't have universal appeal, namely heterosexual relationships. 

    Again, it's one thing if they would have spent no time whatsoever on companion romance, because after all, it is an MMORPG and maybe players should be focusing on other players instead of companions.  But once they spend time including heterosexual stuff, it's discriminatory to homosexual players to not include the same options for them.

    "Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true – you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick WonderlandPosts: 7,619Member

    Lol! I just realised why the title of this thread had this oddly familiar ring, it's a variant of 'Sex & Drugs & Rock 'n Roll' image

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • mcumbeemcumbee Ridge Spring, SCPosts: 2Member
    Leave the SEX out of it......It is a game about fighting....not sex
    It should not matter if you are gay,lesbian,straight....we should all
    be playing on the same level and SEX or relationships should have nothing
    to do with it. When they started including things like marriages in games
    they made a HUGE mistake.
  • kevorkianjkevorkianj UtrechtPosts: 54Member

    Am I the only one who thinks the question (the original one from the youtube video) is a bit odd? Of course you can't stop players having same-sex or any other kind of relationship in game (real or RP). So I believe the issue is misunderstood. Therefore, Cory Butler's answer can only mean that there will be no same sex relationships in the story-line of SWTOR. 

    image

  • WiezardWiezard Houston, TXPosts: 158Member

    Originally posted by kevorkianj

    Am I the only one who thinks the question (the original one from the youtube video) is a bit odd? Of course you can't stop players having same-sex or any other kind of relationship in game (real or RP). So I believe the issue is misunderstood. Therefore, Cory Butler's answer can only mean that there will be no same sex relationships in the story-line of SWTOR. 

    Yes that is exactly what it means. People can still role play with same sex players, nothing is stopping them.

  • IncomparableIncomparable KuwaitPosts: 872Member

    Originally posted by cali59

    Originally posted by Cannyone

    I guess I'm a bit confused by the hoopla... People want to have same sex romances, with "Companions" in SWTOR?  Why?  Just because they had that in Dragon age?  This is an MMORPG for crying out loud.  If they want to have a same sex relationship why not have one with another player?  Are they such loosers that they have to get their "love" from a "companion"?  Or, a better way to put it, are they just so socially inept that they have insist BioWare provide a "simulated relationship" just for them?

    Seems like a really self centered concern to me... I'd rather they work on "other content" personally.  Like incorporating more character customization options.  Or custominzing your ship in various ways.  Or expanding the Space game... The list gets really long really fast.  And Everybody is more likely to appreciate the value of those things.  Instead of spending valuable time developing content which will most likely not have universal appeal.

    I mean I could see what they did in Dragon age.  But there your primary interactions were with your companions.  SWTOR should be different if for no other reason that it is designed to be a multiplayer experience.  That's the part that makes this topic so bizzare.

    It's about equality.  Let's look at your first paragraph.  Heterosexual options for companions exist but you have no problem with them.  However, you think any homosexual should seek out other players for their romance because it's an MMORPG and that they're losers if they want to have a game supported story romance option from a companion.  If you want to argue that nobody should want this option because anybody who does is a loser, that's fine, but there is a real double standard here if you're ok with it for heterosexuals but not homosexuals.

    As far as your second paragraph, you're not putting yourself in someone else's shoes.  Presuming you're a heterosexual, options for you are already in the game, so you're not interested in homosexual options, they aren't for you.  You want to see them work on the part of the game you are interested in and you justify those by saying they have universal appeal.  However, you have to realize that they already spent valuable time on something that doesn't have universal appeal, namely heterosexual relationships. 

    Again, it's one thing if they would have spent no time whatsoever on companion romance, because after all, it is an MMORPG and maybe players should be focusing on other players instead of companions.  But once they spend time including heterosexual stuff, it's discriminatory to homosexual players to not include the same options for them.

    {mod edit}

    While it may be 2011, the place is an mmo, for kids. How is heterosexual content any different? Well, the idea of hetersexuality wont be a new thing if that is a concern since that theme would exist in other media, cartoons, etc, that a little kissing might arouse those little buggers but it wont be something new, or different that arouses them. Yes, some people will get aroused to the game romances. 

    {mod edit}  I don;'t care if it has homosexual stuff in the game, but don't expect me to put myself in that situation and say it is equal and should be in. Since this is a game, equality in this regard is a bit more complex than shared opportunities/laws in the real world. Firstly the fair representation of homosexuality in SW, if every companion could be gay, then that makes the SW story for us 50% gay and 50% hetero. Which is not the case in the SW lore. 

    Also if you are going to talk about equality, which is about laws, then how does that apply to a game? Those laws apply to all humans. If you are human then eqaulity applies. Humans also naturally/mostly are hetero, so why go out of the way to represent something unequally, other than a wanting demographic? Well, the case could be that BW did it before.

    They did it before with other games. This is more of a kids game, and SW canon.

    Again, I think the most important point, is the kind of atmosphere it would create with gay companions.

    I swear, I am not sure if people are trolling that they want gay companions or they are serioius for an online kids game.

    Anyways, I can see BW adding some companions which could be gay later on, and that would be more true to the EU representation which is not George Lucas's version of SW anyways. Yet, that exists in KOTOR as something more subtle with female leopard species.

    Whatever, food for thought. Keep on trucking.

    I don't see the point of this. People will say why they want it. They want equality. Those who do not want it, are either bigoted, homophobic, or religoius. It can't be other reasons.

    So whats the point in arguing? It is going to be interesting to see why BW decided to do what they did.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Somewhere in nowherePosts: 2,316Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by teakbois








     

    They actually caused more controversy by limiting their system to opposite sex characters.

     Well, you can't know that can you? :D If you're talking about "forums" as the place for controversy, maybe. But that's   hardly the place BioWare is probably most concerned about.

     

    Homosexuality in games is very commonplace.  Its far bigger news that they are excluding it and going against the norm, as opposed to including it.

     Is it? I'm not convinced it is, implied in some games, sure, but as far as actual romances go that you can work out, I've not seen all that many games do that. In recent times some RPG's did include that option. Many more didn't.

    Super Mario Brothers 2 way back in the 80s had a male that thought he was a female (Birdo)

    Thinking you're a woman is certainly not an expression of homosexuality. It's also far off from being an actual romance.

    Most games with character options have gay options too.  Ultima games had it.  Final Fantasy games had it.  Fable.  Any Bioware game obviously.  Star Ocean.  list goes on and on

    There are quite a few who have it, but again, romances are something different from dragging a random person in the game world into a "screen goes black" cutscene after giving them a number of virtual gifts. Kotor I&II didn't have them btw.

     

    None of these games had any huge outcry.  The loudest uproar ive seen was over Runes of Magic, and that lasted about two days.

    I'm not saying the game shouldn't have it, quite the opposite, but I'm looking for reasons why it doesn't have them, of which controversy is one of the more obvious ones imo.

    I can't even really come up with anything else, seeing as they did them in all of their latest games.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • CannyoneCannyone Albuquerque, NMPosts: 263Member



    Originally posted by cali59







    Originally posted by Cannyone



    {mod edit}

    Seems like a really self centered concern to me... I'd rather they work on "other content" personally.  Like incorporating more character customization options.  Or custominzing your ship in various ways.  Or expanding the Space game... The list gets really long really fast.  And Everybody is more likely to appreciate the value of those things.  Instead of spending valuable time developing content which will most likely not have universal appeal.





    I mean I could see what they did in Dragon age.  But there your primary interactions were with your companions.  SWTOR should be different if for no other reason that it is designed to be a multiplayer experience.  That's the part that makes this topic so bizzare.

    It's about equality.  Let's look at your first paragraph.  Heterosexual options for companions exist but you have no problem with them.  However, you think any homosexual should seek out other players for their romance because it's an MMORPG and that they're losers if they want to have a game supported story romance option from a companion.  If you want to argue that nobody should want this option because anybody who does is a loser, that's fine, but there is a real double standard here if you're ok with it for heterosexuals but not homosexuals.

    As far as your second paragraph, you're not putting yourself in someone else's shoes.  Presuming you're a heterosexual, options for you are already in the game, so you're not interested in homosexual options, they aren't for you.  You want to see them work on the part of the game you are interested in and you justify those by saying they have universal appeal.  However, you have to realize that they already spent valuable time on something that doesn't have universal appeal, namely heterosexual relationships. 

    Again, it's one thing if they would have spent no time whatsoever on companion romance, because after all, it is an MMORPG and maybe players should be focusing on other players instead of companions.  But once they spend time including heterosexual stuff, it's discriminatory to homosexual players to not include the same options for them.






     

    There are options for "heterosexual relationships" with companions in SWTOR?  Really!?!  Why would one want, or need, a relationship with a companion when you are playing in a world populated by other players?  That's what I don't understand!  It just makes no sense to me.

    I'm not saying anything about stiffling equality.  I just don't think BioWare should be working on making SWTOR that much of a "Single Player RPG".  I mean its supposed to be an MMORPG, or was that changed when I wasn't looking?

    Still, if as you say, they've developed content for heterosexuals then I'm gonna get pissed at BioWare.  They have too many other things to do and they shouldn't be wasting time on stuff that doesn't have the potential to appeal to everyone.  Because I do, at least, agree that there should be equality.

    Guess its time to go make some comments on the official forums... (for which I'll probably get banned... Again!)


  • kaliniskalinis Dexter, MEPosts: 1,428Member

    its only a story option. the story option only even comes up if u have chosen the right stuff leading up to it also. So truth is u could go a whole class quest nd never see it show up. 

    This is a story based mmo they are gonna use the stuff that made them a succesful company in the first place like companion characters and romance of your companions if u choose. 

    That said i dont see the big deal im probably gonna turn down the chance to romance my guys even if i get the oppurtunity. 

    They have alot of other stuff that makes this not a single player game but not everyone wants to group every second they play an mmo.

    Forced grouping i games doesnt work anymore cause no one wants to be stuck on a character because they cant find a group to move on . 

    That said i dont see why the outrage about the ability to romance a ficition character in a game. Seems silly to me but hey to each there own.

  • CannyoneCannyone Albuquerque, NMPosts: 263Member

    Well, as seems typical for the tryannical EA Moderators on the SWTOR forums, all threads relating to this issue have been locked down tight!  So simply starting a new thread, about a "locked" thread, means that "new thread" gets deleted the moment you try to post it.  Plus you get a "Warning" for being bad. 

    Isn't it wonderful when company just can't handle controversy?  :rolleyes:  (Why am I hearing that "Barbie Girl" song playing in my head??  Oh yeah!  I don't live in their perfect world were eveyone thinks the same...)

    Please, MMORPG.com, don't Ever let it become like that Here! 

  • kaliniskalinis Dexter, MEPosts: 1,428Member

    Not true ive been posting in a thread at tor abut this in the last day it hasnt been locked yet. Theres a new one about romance arcs in general and if they should be included. 

    That said ive been posting in a thread on tor forums for 3 days now and its the same one and hasnt been locked.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick WonderlandPosts: 7,619Member

    Originally posted by Cannyone

    Well, as seems typical for the tryannical EA Moderators on the SWTOR forums, all threads relating to this issue have been locked down tight!  So simply starting a new thread, about a "locked" thread, means that "new thread" gets deleted the moment you try to post it.  Plus you get a "Warning" for being bad. 

    Isn't it wonderful when company just can't handle controversy?  :rolleyes:  (Why am I hearing that "Barbie Girl" song playing in my head??  Oh yeah!  I don't live in their perfect world were eveyone thinks the same...)

    Please, MMORPG.com, don't Ever let it become like that Here

    Lol. This just made me laugh. How long have you been here? Followed any DCUO threads a few months back, maybe? image

     

    As for the topic, I find it kind of ironic that BW is trashed for not implementing something ingame that isn't in any other MMO, let alone most singleplayer games, at all. I mean, wow...

    Same for the whole "I'm disappointed discussion", seriously, people should get more realistic and manage their expectations better. We know most of the features in SWTOR, we know what SWTOR will be as type of MMO, if those things can't interest you then don't expect any miracle announcement that'll fuel the flames of excitement for you.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

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