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Originally posted by Scambug Don't blame it on Bioware, blame it on the rating agencies (or whatever they're called) who see homosexuallity as a "mature" subject. Bioware is targetting kids with SWTOR, they did what was needed to avoid the teen or mature rating.
probably the best explanation
Originally posted by chbautist Originally posted by Scambug Don't blame it on Bioware, blame it on the rating agencies (or whatever they're called) who see homosexuallity as a "mature" subject. Bioware is targetting kids with SWTOR, they did what was needed to avoid the teen or mature rating.
Should have the function /thread, and actually ends the thread.
I think I have said too much already.
Good luck, and hope you all the best.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Originally posted by Roin I don't recall KOTOR1 or 2 having same-sex relationships. Think the closest is KOTOR1 with that cat girl, Juhani (sp?). And that was incomplete at best. If TOR is modeled on KOTOR1 and 2, neither of which had it. Why put it in TOR, for the sake of appeasing a very small minority of people. Hell if we are going to complain about that. I guess as an african american, I should be complaining about the lack of black people in the SW universe. There are more black people in the world then homosexuals. So hey why shouldn't I send a request to Bioware to have them put more black in it. Oh and I know I'll give old Mr Lucas himself a call. Tell him next time he re-releases the the Star Wars saga. He better find a way to inject more black people into it.
Dude there are plenty of black people in the SWTOR. It's in character customization, NPCs, and the class story arcs. That's pretty much a standard in most Bioware games. No need to send any requests.
In KOTOR 1 the lesbian relationship with Juhani wasn't exactly minor. There are also gay characters in the Star Wars books. Lucas Arts has a policy stating that there are gay characters in the Star Wars universe. I don't think Bioware writes gay characters in their games "for the sake of appeasing a very small minority of people." For the same reason they don't put black characters in their games "for the sake of appeasing a very small minority of people."
In both cases it makes sese they put them there because their games are about story and choices and portraying an honest real world. Hard to make a personal story with a character you identify with when you have no choices to make a character you can identify with.
Bioware has also stated that making same gender content is not expensive or time consuming, which would also be the same for making charcters with dark skin tones.
two threads on this and I still dont understand why people are upset, and nobody has explained it other than they feel they have been discriminated against. why, wow didnt have it, there was no complaint. ac didnt have it, no complaint, no other mmo had it and there was no complaint. true bioware included it in some of their other games, not even all of their other games but some, but maybe those games were an anomaly, maybe they were doing it for laughs, maybe they were doing it to make fun of that type of community, maybe they are all secretly homosexual and did it for that reason. In swtor they decided not to put those types of relatinships in the game, for whatever reason, it dont really matter what reason, its not their, its their game, their money, their choice.
I could go into reasons I dont like the act of gay sex but that aint the point of this thread so I wont. for those that are upset about this just slow down, take a few breaths and realize, this is a video game, not life. im sure bioware isnt trying to be homophobic or hating on gay people. maybe ea or lucas made the decision not to have it, maybe they thought it wasnt worth the time, maybe they had to cut it out because they wanted to get the game out the door at a certain point and this was one thing they could cut out to make that happen and it really is minor that would only affect a small percentage of the population that would be playing the game. we dont really know what their reasons are and until we do there is no point in getting upset about the decision.
Including same sex marriage is promting an agenda. I refuse to facilitate that agenda. I have left games that have added it to their game.
Originally posted by Shadanwolf Including same sex marriage is promting an agenda. I refuse to facilitate that agenda. I have left games that have added it to their game.
Yeah that whole agenda of being treated like a human being *rolls eyes*
Do you also support murder and genocide? Just asking, because if you play any violent games then your logic would suggest that.
I guess that also means that WoW has a pro racially driven hatred and genocide agenda.
Originally posted by CujoSWAoA Star Wars is for children, they decided that Gay and Lesbian relationships aren't for children. Thats ONE reason... there's so many possible and plausible reasons to go along with it. For instance... they didn't want to have to write MORE script and record MORE audio for alternate homosexual story-arcs. And the list goes on Take that as you wish. (Sidenote: In the original KOTOR, Juhani was the first lesbian to make an apperance in the SW mythos, though there was no actual romance story-line with her character. It was merely a vague declaration at the end of the game, if I'm not mistaken. Exact facts may be distorted by many years of time.)
Sorry there, Cujo. Your logic of "this is a game for children" left the building with the direction of the dark side and with the ability to have sexual relationships in the first place. If this game was for children, you wouldn't be given a choice to kill a child's father. I agree with SB here, either include all the relationship types or remove the NPC relationship mechanic from the game. George Lucas and Star Wars has a long history of including gay/lesbian relationships even raising money for different organizations causes.
Power to the Sheeple
Since we have had no response from Bioware on the subject, let me provide a few scenarios:
Scenario 1: Bioware made the decision specifically to omit homosexual relationships, while specifically including heterosexual relationships, because they were worried about backlash from conservatives.
Scenario 2: Bioware made the decision to include both kinds of relationships, but ran out of time in story development to have them available to meet their current release target and had to prioritize relationship arcs based on which ones people would most likely choose.
Scenario 3: Bioware authors got locked into their own storytelling - when they decided how to tell the stories of your companion characters, those stories may have precluded any possibility of a same-sex romance. That is an error in foresight and preparation, rather than judgment.
Only in one of those do we say "Bioware is clearly at fault." In the others, there's still the probability of future changes that include those romance options.
Also understand this: the male same-sex option in Dragon Age 1 was not exactly well-crafted. The character seemed thrown in at the end, and was horribly stereotypical in many ways...
To me this is not a big deal at all, still trying to fig out why there is even love relationships in a game anyway, who will have time to build a relationship when we are to busy stabbing and shoot and healing and all that jazz.. and if your jedi you cant love anyways its agents the rules and if your sith your suppost to hate everyone so. again I just do get the point of having this feature and why even complain about it in the first place, but then again i did take the time to put in my two cents.....ok maybe 1 cent.
Bravo MMORPG Bravo. If you want to get attention and get people talking take a shot at SWTOR.
3 articles in the last week and they'll probably end up being the most viewed in awhile. Hey if it works, why stop?
I think this bodes well for SWTOR. Love it or hate it. People care one way or the other.
Originally posted by Atlan99 Bravo MMORPG Bravo. If you want to get attention and get people talking take a shot at SWTOR. 3 articles in the last week and they'll probably end up being the most viewed in awhile. Hey if it works, why stop? I think this bodes well for SWTOR. Love it or hate it. People care one way or the other.
Honestly man, I dont think this is necessarily the type of plublicity you really want for Swtor. I also dont think its that great of a sign when everyone is going nuts over a subject like this and not really discussing the game itself or the real game mechanics.
It doesnt really impress me with the community in general.
Id have a lot more respect if they went back to discussing why it would be or not be a good GAME, and stop using it as some sort of social crusade.
This is a non issue. If you want relationships the game does not prohibit you from finding another player also if you want to play house go play sims or real world or some lame game like that. This is a waste of time and resources for a game that is going to be great. I dont ever remember reading or hearing that people are only going to play this game because they get to hook up with the same sex only to be told now they cant. Get over it and you dont have to play it. Geesh
Originally posted by Corehaven Originally posted by Atlan99 Bravo MMORPG Bravo. If you want to get attention and get people talking take a shot at SWTOR. 3 articles in the last week and they'll probably end up being the most viewed in awhile. Hey if it works, why stop? I think this bodes well for SWTOR. Love it or hate it. People care one way or the other.
Thats this site though.
Most people here are burned out on the themepark model. So they will take any excuse to bash the game that they can. I bet you most people don't give a rat's ass about the issue one way or the other. They are just using it to put their spin on SWTOR. Just like these last three articles are more about generating hype for the site than personally held beliefs.
It's also been said "There is no such thing as bad press." So while I think Bioware wishes they were talking more about game mechanics, they are probably happy people are talking.
I think the issue is probably due to the fact that Bioware made a pretty big issue of including such options in thier previous SPRPG....so thier absence in TOR is rather conspicious.
I didn't mind thier presence in the SPRPG's as I could simply avoid the dialogue choices that would trigger such content....and I think the same sort of dynamic would be fine in an MMO offering as well. I don't mind such content existing as long as I can avoid participating in it myself.
I think the best solution is just to provide some sort of toggle in a setup/preferences panel. That way a player doesn't even have to worry about accidentaly choosing the wrong dialogue choices (although they seemed pretty obvious in the other titles) that would trigger such content. Problem solved.
Originally posted by Atlan99 Originally posted by Corehaven Originally posted by Atlan99 Bravo MMORPG Bravo. If you want to get attention and get people talking take a shot at SWTOR. 3 articles in the last week and they'll probably end up being the most viewed in awhile. Hey if it works, why stop? I think this bodes well for SWTOR. Love it or hate it. People care one way or the other.
Wait a minute, as the OP noted, "I’d rather be worried about the unannounced “Legacy” end-game system, and the world PvP info we’ve yet to hear squat about"
so you're correct, it is EA/Bioware's fault after all since their Developer decided to discuss this same sex content issue with some folks rather than share more details on the above said topics which would be more interesting I'll grant you.
Stop being so defensive about discussions regarding SWTOR, the title doesn't need a defense attorney.
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Originally posted by EvesmanObi I guess I don't understand why it's that big a deal that they didn't include it in the game. When it is included in the game, there isn't an uproar. Why is that?
Most games dont have relationship content. This is extra content. The only MMO I can think of with perks for having a relationship is Runes of Magic, which DOES allow same sex marraiges and there indeed WAS a public outcry because of it. But after the initial outburst no one seemed to care I dont think.
Really its poor game development on Bioware's part. If you are going to have content centered around relationships, then you should include same sex relationships. If you dont want to do the right thing, then dont have the relationship content at all.
Well written, I agree with you completely. This to me is a situation of include everything or include nothing. Personally I'd go with the former, why not have the options there for all the various romance arcs that could occur. It will only make the game deeper and give it more options. For my part I 99% likely would never play out any romance arc in the game anyways but I think they should be there for people.
I look at it like this, Bioware/EA didn't shy away from this in other games. They were of the single player variety though and original IP's. I can think of a ton of reasons why they may be avoiding it here. First and foremost the subject matter. WHile it may exist in the EU it's not something you hear a whole lot of in Star Wars mythos. They could have just felt it wasn't appropriate or worth the budget to include.
Second reason the online nature of the game, and what that brings with it. They won't even allow the two sides to converse in open chat. They're worried about the maturity factor there, why wouldn't they be worried about that in other areas?
There are more of course, but i think these two causes are the most likley.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
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Don't want to step on anyone's toes here, but it is a game, either you like their rules and play it, or don't like them and don't play it. Personally, if you have to have a sexual relationship of any sort in a game, you have greater issues than discussing this silly issue.
And anyone asking why this is inappropriate for kids probably should not be playing this game if you have trouble figuring that out.
you do know not everyone who will look for a relationship in a game has relationship issues in real life. i have a loving boyfriend and both of us look for male partners in game all the time. Whats wrong with it? nothing its merely enhance the individual players gameplay experience. If a game doesnt have homosexual npc relations big woop ill find another player. most likely my boyfriend but if i find another male player whos into homosexual RP by all means ill play along. What a player does with his time in a game should not be important to any of you. What you should worry about is how to make your own gaming experience a great one. To worry about others is just plain stupid. unless they are your real life friends or a close friend in game.
There are a number of players you might be responsible for this decision-
Bioware- Unlikely given their past support for their gay players
EA- Possible but then again this is the same company that hired actors to protest Dante's Inferno. EA hasn't been one to shy away from controversy or raising a rucus to get attention. On the other hand EA needs a big win. John Riccitiello the CEO of EA put a lot of eggs in the WAR basket and that didn't turn out well. Add in some other failures under his tenure, and you have a guy that is on the verge of losing his job. Riccitiello needs a big win and he might be willing to make a decision that offends a small group of people to please the larger group, might even get some press over the decision.
Lucas- Look at the newer trilogy and The Clone Wars, Lucas is heavily marketing Star Wars to the youth. He doesn't seem to care much about older fans or giving his own creation justice, he just wants that money.
Player demographics- Gay players make up a very small portion of the gaming community. If companies aren't willing to cater specifically to women why would they bother with another minority group? It's all about pleasing the larger segment which is primarily straight males, thus the continuation of the chain mail bikini in its many forms.
Originally posted by Leoghan Originally posted by Corehaven Originally posted by Leoghan Originally posted by Corehaven Good job folks. By ranting and raving about it not being in TOR, its highly possible you may never see it again in any other game either. Keep it up.
Are you for real? This is like saying in the middle of the civil right era that the Black Panthers prove that African Americans can't handle equal rights and so the minority ruined it for everyone... *rolls eyes*
Im absolutely for real. I'll say it again since you missed it the first time.
THE OWNER of the IP may or may not allow this sort of thing associated with said IP. Namely Star Wars. In order to not have this happen again, Bioware may cut it out all together. Because its NOT WORTH IT.
Do you understand then in this case that Bioware has no choice not to include it? Because Lucas Arts will not clear it? There fore they have to put up with the flak? Therefore? Not worth it.
This is happening because in past games that were solely the IP of Bioware, they could do it. But in future games, they may partner with another IP that does NOT allow it. So? Eliminate future precidence so this doesnt happen twice.
Does that not make sense to you? Comparing it to a race issue does not relate in any way shape or form. *rolls eyes*
Once again... Lucas Arts has approved homosexuals in their IP before
"Beviin was known as something of a traditionalist, and used old-fashioned equipment, including highly illegalcrushgaunts, and beskar armor that was colored blue. Beviin was homosexual, and settled down with his partner, Medrit Vasur, some time before 24 ABY. The couple went on to adopt a daughter, Dinua Jeban. Beviin was a family man and was welcoming of guests on his farm. Boba Fett thought of Beviin as all heart and courage, and not afraid of the pain of love. He was the closest the anti-social Fett had to a friend. Fett thought that Beviin would make a good Mandalore, but Beviin did not want to lead, and would rather stay on his farm.Beviin held a deep hatred for the Yuuzhan Vong, and advocated killing every one. Beviin also held a dislike for the Jedi, and described Kubariet as "the only Jedi I've ever trusted.""
Having homosexual references in a book is far away from allowing them into an MMO game or a movie accessed by millions of people. Judging from Bioware's approach in ME and DA regarding this matter i am pretty sure that Lucas Arts gave them a red light about homosexual relations in TOR.
Originally posted by Ozmodan Personally, if you have to have a sexual relationship of any sort in a game, you have greater issues than discussing this silly issue. And anyone asking why this is inappropriate for kids probably should not be playing this game if you have trouble figuring that out.
1. Were not talking 'sexual relationship'. Just a relationship.
2. Relationships involving two people of the same gender are 100% appropriate for kids. Its not like SWTOR would be their only exposure to it. Get with the times is the appropriate phrase here.
I can understand Bioware choice
People on the internet can be so mean its crazy
Imagine 2 guy kissing emo and flirting and all... all the homophobe would start picking on them with things like "fucking gays, you like licking shit" blah blah blah and so on... the fight it could result woulb be crazy and Bioware would spend a lots of time dealing with that shit
So they are playing safe to keep some nasty mouth from doing their thing and poison the entire game
Still i would have love some girl on girl show but meh whatever