It doesn't become politics until someone makes a Cause out of it. That's external to your gaming, taking place out here, not in the game.
In Bioware's shoes, I'd just dump the romantic themes entirely.
Not worth the rabblerabble it's generating.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Either have both or leave them out entirely. If it's a development intensive aspect, and applying all those arcs on gay relationships would be too much of a hassle when compared to the gains (also making a certain minority of players happy), I can understand their choice, but I still think they should leave npc relationships out entirely.
If it's a choice made on cultural biass and bending to traditionalist, negative views on gay relationships I would be very disappointed in Bioware.
Are we that bored with our lives that we worry about a game design choice from a Star Wars game? Are we that wishy washy that we need to gnash our teeth that a video game needs to be politically correct?
I mean, the Huttball hate thread is more entertaining that this. You think the rating of this game will climb to #1 if the next press release reads "Homosex is back in!". Maybe an endorsement from the G&L activist groups will boost the preorders..
Oh for Pete sake! People actually who were interested in the game now aren't because the game design doesn't "support" their lifestyle? Is this the first game they are ever considering to buy?
Ok, rant off. back to the I hate Huttball folder..
Fine we'll remove any content referring to sexuality from every fantasy/sci-fi game ever created.
Or here's a better idea, screw the people who are offended.
If a game does contain homosexuality we should instantly report it to FoxNews so that those conservatives can start whining about how immoral it is. < - - - - - Controversy like this tends to boost a game's sales.
Controversy spreads the word, and the game would sellf itself as being a product worth a person's money.
Yet, the romance exists. It also exists for a male PC to role a female avatar and romance a male.
So instead of implementing something that seems to be quite controversial, they added something that offers the same opportunity, but at the same time not adding more than exists in the SW universe.
Or maybe the exclusion of SGRA in the triology is also offensive?
This controversy will continue until they release the game. And it will make no difference unless, by some show of force or change of heart that encourages such an action.
Is it bigotry? Maybe it is about the focus on the story, and a side of companions and not the other way around. Look at the controversy without its inclusion. What kind of controversy would SW get with its inclusion. Also is that controversy not just about business profit, but worth the people it is excluding?
People who want SGRA can still play this game. However it seems that kids, or whomever is against the SGRA, such as parents I beleive would be left out. So it seems more people would lose by its implementation than the other way around.
I can understand people wants and needs to have things they want to be implemented. So I expect them to make noise until that happens. However look at the considerations, and I hope others add to the other reasons. It is a SW game, and not another IP. Also MMOs are about finding the right mix to make the most people happy. Would SGRA make more people happy, than not? And vice a versa.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
I don't see how gay or lesbian relationships would be any less suitable than straight relationships for a younger audience
{mod edit}
{mod edit}
and so on and so on.. we could turn this into a 10.000 long thread whit each post reaching max lenght and still be ongoing why or why not gay should be in the game or not in the game. fact is, they choices not to , be it for personal believes,be it for demograpics and sales or for a silly age rating they know is biast toward anyting not 1920 "morale" proof.
those who hate it just gota say so whit their wallet and those who dont care ..dont care. I love every human being , gay,black,white ,red, god fearing or science nert but could not care for Erp whit pixels, if i wanted Erp i would find me a nice looking player gal toon and invite her to my awsome ship bedroom.
I don't care. Unless there are in-game benefits to participating in romance aspects of the game, then I will more than likely do what I did in dragon age and Mass Effect- piss my followers off on a regular basis.
Now, I understand some people do get into the stuff, and I don't really see how gay and lesbian romance arcs can tarnish the teen rating when they have straight romance arcs already, it's just a bunch of genitals people. Just a bunch of genitals.
But, as I said, I don't care. If you guys just really need gay romance in your star wars, then go right ahead. If you keep complaining, then the dev's may change it. I personally, will try to kill all the alleged homosexuals in-game.
Wouldn't be offended if they added same sex romance story arcs, won't be offended if they don't, and wouldn't shed a tear if no interactive romantic story arcs of any kind were included in SWTOR. That aspect of real life isn't something I feel the need to express in a video game. I think the reason for this unconcern is I like to think that the core of my personality, the complex factors that define who I am, how I choose to see the world, and what entertains me, revolves around a lot more than just whom I choose to f**k.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Yes, let's take a feature out of the game because like 1% of the population is going to be offended by it.
Nope, they can get over it.
Political correctness has already ruined the news, sports, movies, television, radio, books... countless other things.
More controversy the better.
Sell more boxes.
Give us a congressional hearing? Sell more boxes.
This is a pretty fair point.
I can SOMEWHAT see the point of all this. After all, if they made a game with only homosexual relationships in it, I might very well not play it. You put romance in a game but left out the heterosexuality? What the hell? But I was looking forward to this game! Now I just sort of have to avoid the romance stuff, because I dont want to see my male character kissing a guy! Comon! Im pretty sure the homosexual gamers pretty much feel the same way.
On the flip side, while homosexuality is varying degrees of accepted these days, its not THAT accepted. Mario needs to rescue the princess. Nintendo doesnt need to change the plot to him rescuing a beefy italian man named Fredrico instead who he then kisses with little hearts floating above the head in order to satisfy gay people.
Some stories are written with homosexuality as the cheif romantic element. Others are completely the opposite. The problem here is that its supposed to be YOUR personal story. Bioware has just toughted story story story since the beginning and it'll be all yours. So the gay guy or girl playing this may get a little confused as to why their personal story includes them making out with the opposite sex on the ship. Thats not what they would do! Thats not their story! Which I can honestly sort of understand.
However, if they add it, Bioware gets all sorts of crap for doing so. If they dont add it, Bioware gets all sorts of crap for doing it, although probably less so. Either way they sort of loose. They probably figured they were playing it safe here. I would have assumed not adding homosexuality to the game would be no problem myself. As a developer I mean. How wrong I would have been. Thats how insane the world is today. And it just crazier by the minute.
I don't see how gay or lesbian relationships would be any less suitable than straight relationships for a younger audience
{mod edit}
{mod edit}
and so on and so on.. we could turn this into a 10.000 long thread whit each post reaching max lenght and still be ongoing why or why not gay should be in the game or not in the game. fact is, they choices not to , be it for personal believes,be it for demograpics and sales or for a silly age rating they know is biast toward anyting not 1920 "morale" proof.
those who hate it just gota say so whit their wallet and those who dont care ..dont care. I love every human being , gay,black,white ,red, god fearing or science nert but could not care for Erp whit pixels, if i wanted Erp i would find me a nice looking player gal toon and invite her to my awsome ship bedroom.
Nice finish.
I find your points interesting. Since animals are territorial, which would mean thier bisexual behavior is a sign of dominace and not a sign of sexual interest. Also they are animals, it would be hard to discern if an animal has an actual prefernce to one of its own gender over the other, instead of what is conveniantly infront of them.
{mod edit}
Once people say too much, things become serious, and people get hurt. The decision has been made. Try what you can to help yourselfs, but look at the alternatives (romance exists), the trade off (buy it or not, if it exists who will not buy it or not), and the actual product itself.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
It is Biowares game and their choice. Don't like it don't play. Keep that PC crap out of every aspect of life. No we all can not get along there will always be a us vs them. Though I disagree with Badspock in gay being unnatural. Gay and sterile are just natural procreation limiters. It is neither good nor bad it just is. Also where do people get the insane notion they have the right to go through life without being offended? At least speaking for the US we are supposed to be a nation of TOLERANCE as in we tolerate each other does not mean we like each other or even respect each other merely we tolerate each other's existence and most of the time we fail even at that.
Personally I don't care about relationships in the game at all. I don't really understand the appeal of it. But for those who care the solution is simple. Create a gay/gay friendly guild. Role play your toon and romance other players of the same sex. Make up your own adventures. Just becaues the game doesn't allow you to romance same sex NPC shouldn't stop you from playing how you want. Have fun.
In the LGBT community, isn't the concept that people feel they're born one gender, but internally they're really another? And so if that's the case, in SWTOR, they can actually be that other gender, and so balance is restored. amiright? Not gay here, so I could be mistaken.
In the LGBT community, isn't the concept that people feel they're born one gender, but internally they're really another? And so if that's the case, in SWTOR, they can actually be that other gender, and so balance is restored. amiright? Not gay here, so I could be mistaken.
Leave the sexual relationships with computer sprites out of the game. As it has been said several times before, avoid the controversy completely by not allowing PC sexual relationships at all. End of Story. If you absolutely *must* have sex or sexual orientation in the game, then allow any and everything and be prepared for the consequences of such, ie the higher "M" rating on the box. Want an "E" or "T" rating, then leave the sex out. Simple.
Leave the sexual relationships with computer sprites out of the game. As it has been said several times before, avoid the controversy completely by not allowing PC sexual relationships at all. End of Story. If you absolutely *must* have sex or sexual orientation in the game, then allow any and everything and be prepared for the consequences of such, ie the higher "M" rating on the box. Want an "E" or "T" rating, then leave the sex out. Simple.
I don't see how gay or lesbian relationships would be any less suitable than straight relationships for a younger audience
{mod edit}
Finally someone with the guts to be honest. I totally disagree your opinion, but I applaud the fact that you're at least not trying to cloud your position with a lot of bullshit justifications. This is at the heart of the decision. Everything else stems from it.
I won't even bother listing any of the huge number of other animal species on the planet who engage in same-sex behaviour with one another, without the benefit of human engineered morality to dissuade them.
In the LGBT community, isn't the concept that people feel they're born one gender, but internally they're really another? And so if that's the case, in SWTOR, they can actually be that other gender, and so balance is restored. amiright? Not gay here, so I could be mistaken.
Seriously I cant tell you how many times Ive written this in response to this argument. Or rather.....if you want same sex NPC relationships in Swtor please follow these directions:
Create a Female character
Use character creation to modify this characters looks. Give broad shoulders, flat chest, male haircut, and as male of a face as possible with no make up.
Name character Fred. George. Tight Pants Henrico. Bruno. Whatever. Any male name you like.
Then role play as a male.
You may now have your NPC same sex relationships. Apparently this isnt good enough however, because the game may occasionally refer to you as a "beautiful woman" or something when you're actually trying to play as a gay guy. Of COURSE its not friggin good enough. Why the hell would it be? That solution is far too simple. The issue has got to be complicated. {mod edit}
Leave the sexual relationships with computer sprites out of the game. As it has been said several times before, avoid the controversy completely by not allowing PC sexual relationships at all. End of Story.
Why ??? Why should they remove a feature of the game bacause 1-2% of population isn't satisfied with it ?
This is getting really tiresome. Accept it, majority of people hate this stuff and don't want it in their game. If you want same sex relationships in SWTOR, roleplay it with someone.
Numbers please with a cited reference. And majority in this case is 50% +1? Not exactly a sweeping endorsement, that.
Comments
Well, technically it's sexuality.
It doesn't become politics until someone makes a Cause out of it. That's external to your gaming, taking place out here, not in the game.
In Bioware's shoes, I'd just dump the romantic themes entirely.
Not worth the rabblerabble it's generating.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
What rabble rabble ?
Either have both or leave them out entirely. If it's a development intensive aspect, and applying all those arcs on gay relationships would be too much of a hassle when compared to the gains (also making a certain minority of players happy), I can understand their choice, but I still think they should leave npc relationships out entirely.
If it's a choice made on cultural biass and bending to traditionalist, negative views on gay relationships I would be very disappointed in Bioware.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Yes, let's take a feature out of the game because like 1% of the population is going to be offended by it.
Nope, they can get over it.
Political correctness has already ruined the news, sports, movies, television, radio, books... countless other things.
More controversy the better.
Sell more boxes.
Give us a congressional hearing? Sell more boxes.
Are we that bored with our lives that we worry about a game design choice from a Star Wars game? Are we that wishy washy that we need to gnash our teeth that a video game needs to be politically correct?
I mean, the Huttball hate thread is more entertaining that this. You think the rating of this game will climb to #1 if the next press release reads "Homosex is back in!". Maybe an endorsement from the G&L activist groups will boost the preorders..
Oh for Pete sake! People actually who were interested in the game now aren't because the game design doesn't "support" their lifestyle? Is this the first game they are ever considering to buy?
Ok, rant off. back to the I hate Huttball folder..
Controversy spreads the word, and the game would sellf itself as being a product worth a person's money.
Yet, the romance exists. It also exists for a male PC to role a female avatar and romance a male.
So instead of implementing something that seems to be quite controversial, they added something that offers the same opportunity, but at the same time not adding more than exists in the SW universe.
Or maybe the exclusion of SGRA in the triology is also offensive?
This controversy will continue until they release the game. And it will make no difference unless, by some show of force or change of heart that encourages such an action.
Is it bigotry? Maybe it is about the focus on the story, and a side of companions and not the other way around. Look at the controversy without its inclusion. What kind of controversy would SW get with its inclusion. Also is that controversy not just about business profit, but worth the people it is excluding?
People who want SGRA can still play this game. However it seems that kids, or whomever is against the SGRA, such as parents I beleive would be left out. So it seems more people would lose by its implementation than the other way around.
I can understand people wants and needs to have things they want to be implemented. So I expect them to make noise until that happens. However look at the considerations, and I hope others add to the other reasons. It is a SW game, and not another IP. Also MMOs are about finding the right mix to make the most people happy. Would SGRA make more people happy, than not? And vice a versa.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
This. Thank you.
{mod edit}
and so on and so on.. we could turn this into a 10.000 long thread whit each post reaching max lenght and still be ongoing why or why not gay should be in the game or not in the game. fact is, they choices not to , be it for personal believes,be it for demograpics and sales or for a silly age rating they know is biast toward anyting not 1920 "morale" proof.
those who hate it just gota say so whit their wallet and those who dont care ..dont care. I love every human being , gay,black,white ,red, god fearing or science nert but could not care for Erp whit pixels, if i wanted Erp i would find me a nice looking player gal toon and invite her to my awsome ship bedroom.
I don't care. Unless there are in-game benefits to participating in romance aspects of the game, then I will more than likely do what I did in dragon age and Mass Effect- piss my followers off on a regular basis.
Now, I understand some people do get into the stuff, and I don't really see how gay and lesbian romance arcs can tarnish the teen rating when they have straight romance arcs already, it's just a bunch of genitals people. Just a bunch of genitals.
But, as I said, I don't care. If you guys just really need gay romance in your star wars, then go right ahead. If you keep complaining, then the dev's may change it. I personally, will try to kill all the alleged homosexuals in-game.
Argh
All this waa waa needs to stop so we can do more pew pew.
Take the hole thing out of the game. No more strate or gay commpaion romance. there is no need of it.
Issue does not effect me.
Wouldn't be offended if they added same sex romance story arcs, won't be offended if they don't, and wouldn't shed a tear if no interactive romantic story arcs of any kind were included in SWTOR. That aspect of real life isn't something I feel the need to express in a video game. I think the reason for this unconcern is I like to think that the core of my personality, the complex factors that define who I am, how I choose to see the world, and what entertains me, revolves around a lot more than just whom I choose to f**k.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
This is a pretty fair point.
I can SOMEWHAT see the point of all this. After all, if they made a game with only homosexual relationships in it, I might very well not play it. You put romance in a game but left out the heterosexuality? What the hell? But I was looking forward to this game! Now I just sort of have to avoid the romance stuff, because I dont want to see my male character kissing a guy! Comon! Im pretty sure the homosexual gamers pretty much feel the same way.
On the flip side, while homosexuality is varying degrees of accepted these days, its not THAT accepted. Mario needs to rescue the princess. Nintendo doesnt need to change the plot to him rescuing a beefy italian man named Fredrico instead who he then kisses with little hearts floating above the head in order to satisfy gay people.
Some stories are written with homosexuality as the cheif romantic element. Others are completely the opposite. The problem here is that its supposed to be YOUR personal story. Bioware has just toughted story story story since the beginning and it'll be all yours. So the gay guy or girl playing this may get a little confused as to why their personal story includes them making out with the opposite sex on the ship. Thats not what they would do! Thats not their story! Which I can honestly sort of understand.
However, if they add it, Bioware gets all sorts of crap for doing so. If they dont add it, Bioware gets all sorts of crap for doing it, although probably less so. Either way they sort of loose. They probably figured they were playing it safe here. I would have assumed not adding homosexuality to the game would be no problem myself. As a developer I mean. How wrong I would have been. Thats how insane the world is today. And it just crazier by the minute.
Nice finish.
I find your points interesting. Since animals are territorial, which would mean thier bisexual behavior is a sign of dominace and not a sign of sexual interest. Also they are animals, it would be hard to discern if an animal has an actual prefernce to one of its own gender over the other, instead of what is conveniantly infront of them.
{mod edit}
Once people say too much, things become serious, and people get hurt. The decision has been made. Try what you can to help yourselfs, but look at the alternatives (romance exists), the trade off (buy it or not, if it exists who will not buy it or not), and the actual product itself.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
It is Biowares game and their choice. Don't like it don't play. Keep that PC crap out of every aspect of life. No we all can not get along there will always be a us vs them. Though I disagree with Badspock in gay being unnatural. Gay and sterile are just natural procreation limiters. It is neither good nor bad it just is. Also where do people get the insane notion they have the right to go through life without being offended? At least speaking for the US we are supposed to be a nation of TOLERANCE as in we tolerate each other does not mean we like each other or even respect each other merely we tolerate each other's existence and most of the time we fail even at that.
Personally I don't care about relationships in the game at all. I don't really understand the appeal of it. But for those who care the solution is simple. Create a gay/gay friendly guild. Role play your toon and romance other players of the same sex. Make up your own adventures. Just becaues the game doesn't allow you to romance same sex NPC shouldn't stop you from playing how you want. Have fun.
In the LGBT community, isn't the concept that people feel they're born one gender, but internally they're really another? And so if that's the case, in SWTOR, they can actually be that other gender, and so balance is restored. amiright? Not gay here, so I could be mistaken.
so...
That's transsexuality, not homosexuality.
Leave the sexual relationships with computer sprites out of the game. As it has been said several times before, avoid the controversy completely by not allowing PC sexual relationships at all. End of Story. If you absolutely *must* have sex or sexual orientation in the game, then allow any and everything and be prepared for the consequences of such, ie the higher "M" rating on the box. Want an "E" or "T" rating, then leave the sex out. Simple.
Achievement get: Thread winner.
But why would a relationship between two women for example be damaging for a child, while a relationship between a guy and a woman wouldn't?
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Finally someone with the guts to be honest. I totally disagree your opinion, but I applaud the fact that you're at least not trying to cloud your position with a lot of bullshit justifications. This is at the heart of the decision. Everything else stems from it.
I won't even bother listing any of the huge number of other animal species on the planet who engage in same-sex behaviour with one another, without the benefit of human engineered morality to dissuade them.
Seriously I cant tell you how many times Ive written this in response to this argument. Or rather.....if you want same sex NPC relationships in Swtor please follow these directions:
Create a Female character
Use character creation to modify this characters looks. Give broad shoulders, flat chest, male haircut, and as male of a face as possible with no make up.
Name character Fred. George. Tight Pants Henrico. Bruno. Whatever. Any male name you like.
Then role play as a male.
You may now have your NPC same sex relationships. Apparently this isnt good enough however, because the game may occasionally refer to you as a "beautiful woman" or something when you're actually trying to play as a gay guy. Of COURSE its not friggin good enough. Why the hell would it be? That solution is far too simple. The issue has got to be complicated. {mod edit}
Why ??? Why should they remove a feature of the game bacause 1-2% of population isn't satisfied with it ?
Numbers please with a cited reference. And majority in this case is 50% +1? Not exactly a sweeping endorsement, that.
Please refer to my comment earlier in the thread where I already delved into this issue. Common sense. Its a good thing.