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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Gamescom - A Massive Disappointment

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  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon

    The info that Ive seen on ToR is more than enough. But for someone that has already played multiple aspects of the game (like MikeB) I can see how this is not satisfying. I jave all the info I need to be hyped about the game and ready to dig in. We know about almost every feature that will be in game at launch. While nice, I dont really need to actually see hands on demos with every single feature of ToR. Id like to experience things like that for the first time myself. I enjoy reading interviews more than anything else at these events and there are a LOT of those.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick WonderlandPosts: 7,619Member

    Originally posted by Scambug

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    "People" and yes that is in quotes will call anything a "WoW-clone" these days.

    The term has no meaning and no credibility.

    The term has a perfectly clear meaning: it's what you call a game that rips 90% of its gameplay from WoW.

    And it's perfectly credible when applied to games such as Rift and TOR.

    Wether you're in denial or just don't like your favourite game being criticized is another matter.

    Naah, 'WoW clone' is just a term that's over 90% used by purely critics and 'haters'/opponents of this or that game, people who in general look down on themepark MMO's and who use that term to express their scorn and disgust with MMO's that fall into that - funnily enough most popular - MMO genre image

    To some people, all themepark MMO's are 'WoW clones' to a lesser or larger degree.

     


    Originally posted by Fratman

    You're happy that ToR is a WoW clone even though you're bored with WoW at the moment?

    You'll have about 2 good months with ToR before you realize all you're doing is raiding for purples at endgame, just like you do in WoW.  Yeah, the epic gear is purple in ToR as well. That's because Bioware thought people like you might get confused if they used a different color.

    Here's a concept that might be hard to understand for some people, but I'm going to give it a try.

    Some people might have grown bored with WoW but not with themepark MMO's.

    Just like some people might have grown bored with MW2 but not with shooters.

    That's why you see people who have grown bored with WoW still enjoy themselves in Rift, LotrO, AoC, Aion, etc.

     

    See? That was the concept. I hope I made it plain enough to understand to people for whom this idea might be new and innovative.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce MelbournePosts: 559Member

    Originally posted by Bunnyking

    Ok first things first; Yes, I was also disappointed by the lack of any substantial info on SWTOR at GamesCon... HOWEVER... It's not necessary AT ALL to keep talking about GW2 in a SWTOR article. That game is its own game. One has nothing to do with the other.

    THAT makes me say that yes you are biased towards SWTOR, even though you have 2 pre-orders. Spreading word of your disappointment, that's your right. But in that same article praising GW2, a game I by the way start to loathe more and more each day, is just bull5=!7.

    Expectations are high for SWTOR so i can't blame mmorpg.com staff for being disappointed with lack of any new information. Hell i was disappointed considering i went there and came back empty handed. I was really stoked and got zero new info.

    I don't know from where you got this idea that they are biase towards SWTOR. He is disappointed in lack of new info and not the game itself.

    image

  • McGamerMcGamer Fairfield Bay, ARPosts: 1,012Member

    The revealing of Huttball was definitely a downpoint for me. 

  • BadSpock2BadSpock2 Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 96Member

    Originally posted by Puremallace

    Not to be the old guy in the thread, but couldn't you say the same about WoW when it was released. 90% of it was like EQ. Pretty sure we beat this horse to death. It is a called a genre. All these games in this genre look the same WoW/Rift/SWToR/EQ

    The important part is what does Bioware do with the game after it is launched. Do they pull a WoW and stagnate or do they pull a Rift and start introducing other stuff...AA...more housing options..free server x-fers <--this is all stuff SWToR can do to distinquish the game

    I like this, I'm going to use this...

  • TillerTiller Portland, ORPosts: 4,921Member

    @ the writer of this article. Every studio releases info at their own pace to suit their needs, continuing to compare this game to this or that game will do nothing more than foster more animosity between playerbases. Truth is you won't know much about the details you are yearning for until the game is ready to go gold.Just wait and see how many things announced "change" from this point to launch of GW2 and you will see why BioWare is doing what they are doing with info flow. It's still in testing, feedback is important, nuff said.

    image
    SWG pre-cu vet, elder Jedi, elder BH -Bloodfin

  • tshack88tshack88 Indianapolis, INPosts: 48Member

    Ever since the announcement of the game they've presented nothing but disappointment after disappointment.  The killer, for me, was what they did to space combat.  I'm sorry, but no on rails flying game will be better than free flight.  It might be more cinematic, but that doesn't mean it's better.

    A bunch of my friends are pre-ordering.  I can't justify it for myself...

  • TillerTiller Portland, ORPosts: 4,921Member

    Originally posted by tshack88

    Ever since the announcement of the game they've presented nothing but disappointment after disappointment.  The killer, for me, was what they did to space combat.  I'm sorry, but no on rails flying game will be better than free flight.  It might be more cinematic, but that doesn't mean it's better.

    A bunch of my friends are pre-ordering.  I can't justify it for myself...

    Again, it's in testing, and feedback is important enough for them that they aren't going to give everyone all the juicy bits unti they are ready. They aren't doing it to be mean you know.

    image
    SWG pre-cu vet, elder Jedi, elder BH -Bloodfin

  • Grotar89Grotar89 beograd, CAPosts: 343Member

    Originally posted by Alot

    Originally posted by Chilliesauce


    Originally posted by Grotar89


    Originally posted by Puremallace


    Originally posted by Grotar89

    Make WoW clone with VO

    Hype it with cinematics that have no connection with gameplay

    Repeat SW and BW always

    Give players small info so they cant realise it is WoW Clone

    Sell 2 milion copies, achieve financial succes and go WAR path.

     

    Dont say you havent been warned !!!

    Remake an entire game that milions quit

    Repeat dynamic over and over with little to no real details

    Use hype words and personel story whenever possible and never give any details

    Say buy to play in every other sentence

     

    AMIDOINGITRIGHT?

     

    Oh GW2 is no clone. It has more info than TOR which should launch soon, and yes it is B2P and it will beat TOR hard.

     

    Also GW2 hype is more than justified? I dont think TORs hype is....

     

    Also will quote your post and laugh when TOR fails be prepared dont say you havent been warned.

    I am really excited about GW2 but when i read comments like this, it is the community which worries me. The thought of being surrounded by such obnoxious players really bothers me (You do realize that SW:TOR has also got these people in abundance?). Reminds me so much of WOW community full of self centered and over confident players who just can't accept that anything else can be better than their beloved game.

    I believe Grotar does the same on the official SW:TOR forums, although I haven't seen him on GW2Guru.

    Oh yes i m on GW2guru aswell but I m not so negative tthere coz i dont have alot to complain about. On the other hand TOR forums are really nice place for laugh, when you see amount off misinformation, hate that is dericted to other MMOs.

    Mostly about GW2 but TSW and WoW are getting thier share aswell. Also half the TOR forums refuse to even think that their games is doing smth wrong...

  • DaeldaDaelda Boise, IDPosts: 12Member

    I played EVE Online for the first 3 months after it came out, and after that I pretty much hated PVP. The videos I saw from Gamescon of TOR's PVP is the first time I have been excited to PVP since! I am actually looking forward to the Warzones in TOR! I can hardly believe it!

    Sure, I want more information, and I really hope that PAX doesn't disappoint, but for me personally, Gamescon was well worth it.

  • TillerTiller Portland, ORPosts: 4,921Member

    Originally posted by Grotar89

    Originally posted by Alot


    Originally posted by Chilliesauce


    Originally posted by Grotar89


    Originally posted by Puremallace


    Originally posted by Grotar89

    Make WoW clone with VO

    Hype it with cinematics that have no connection with gameplay

    Repeat SW and BW always

    Give players small info so they cant realise it is WoW Clone

    Sell 2 milion copies, achieve financial succes and go WAR path.

     

    Dont say you havent been warned !!!

    Remake an entire game that milions quit

    Repeat dynamic over and over with little to no real details

    Use hype words and personel story whenever possible and never give any details

    Say buy to play in every other sentence

     

    AMIDOINGITRIGHT?

     

    Oh GW2 is no clone. It has more info than TOR which should launch soon, and yes it is B2P and it will beat TOR hard.

     

    Also GW2 hype is more than justified? I dont think TORs hype is....

     

    Also will quote your post and laugh when TOR fails be prepared dont say you havent been warned.

    I am really excited about GW2 but when i read comments like this, it is the community which worries me. The thought of being surrounded by such obnoxious players really bothers me (You do realize that SW:TOR has also got these people in abundance?). Reminds me so much of WOW community full of self centered and over confident players who just can't accept that anything else can be better than their beloved game.

    I believe Grotar does the same on the official SW:TOR forums, although I haven't seen him on GW2Guru.

    Oh yes i m on GW2guru aswell but I m not so negative tthere coz i dont have alot to complain about. On the other hand TOR forums are really nice place for laugh, when you see amount off misinformation, hate that is dericted to other MMOs.

    Mostly about GW2 but TSW and WoW are getting thier share aswell. Also half the TOR forums refuse to even think that their games is doing smth wrong...

    Only time I see this is when someone comes in to troll. For the most part a lot of people were looking forward to playing both GW2 and SWTOR (yes you can enjoy more than one MMO), but now the folks who are die hard GW2 trolls are driving a lot of us who were looking forward to GW2 away.

    image
    SWG pre-cu vet, elder Jedi, elder BH -Bloodfin

  • Grotar89Grotar89 beograd, CAPosts: 343Member

    Originally posted by Chilliesauce

    Originally posted by Grotar89


    Oh yes i m on GW2guru aswell but I m not so negative tthere coz i dont have alot to complain about. On the other hand TOR forums are really nice place for laugh, when you see amount off misinformation, hate that is dericted to other MMOs.

    Mostly about GW2 but TSW and WoW are getting thier share aswell. Also half the TOR forums refuse to even think that their games is doing smth wrong...

    I post regularly on TOR forums and majority of times players discuss good and bad points about SWTOR

    And when some says smth bad discusion goes like this:

    This is not SWG. Its Star Wars. Its Bioware they cant fail. If u want space combat dont play this game, See u at launch bro.

    We dont need appeareance tab it sucks. Trinity is there coz it is the only working mehanic other MMOs that dont use it all failed.

    And pretty much all like artstyle and char models/armors even though they are nothing like KOTOR nor any previuos SW game, and yes they are far more similar to WoW than to SW.

  • cali59cali59 B, NYPosts: 1,634Member

    Originally posted by Puremallace

    Originally posted by Scambug



    Well I disappeared because I got a 1 day ban yesterday , shortly after getting owned in that thread - for a post in another thread.

    Yeah I was wrong, it happens.

    The fact that you guys are going ape sh1t on the 90% (when it's pretty obvious what I meant was "the great majority") just shows how desperate you are to discredit anyone who dares critize TOR.

    Now that's the last time I answer one of your posts, you're seriously starting to get on my nerves there buddy.

    Not to be the old guy in the thread, but couldn't you say the same about WoW when it was released. 90% of it was like EQ. Pretty sure we beat this horse to death. It is a called a genre. All these games in this genre look the same WoW/Rift/SWToR/EQ

     

    The important part is what does Bioware do with the game after it is launched. Do they pull a WoW and stagnate or do they pull a Rift and start introducing other stuff...AA...more housing options..free server x-fers <--this is all stuff SWToR can do to distinquish the game

     I have never understood the notion that WoW is an EQ clone.  Maybe it's all a question of degree, but I honestly don't see it.  WoW is quest based, EQ is grind based with few quests.  EQ has contested dungeons (variable instanced later), WoW has all instanced (sprawling at first, then linear).  EQ you have a limited number of skills at a time, WoW you have everything.  EQ has a harsh death penalty and corpse retrieval, WoW has armor degradation and a ghost walk back.  EQ is group based, WoW is solo.  I'm sure I could find a bunch of things that WoW did like and copied from EQ, but there's obviously a bunch of substantial gameplay features they didn't like.

    Whether you agree with even the notion of calling something a WoW clone or not, it's clear to me that Rift in particular used it as a starting point.  Compare the Rift UI to WoW's UI.  Very similar (and entirely unlike EQ's).  Holy trinity gameplay, global cooldown, linear instanced dungeons.  They added rifts and invasions, but they did it to supplement a very similar quest based structure.  They added the soul system, but it comes across as a much more flexible version of WoW's talent trees.

    That isn't to say that there aren't other innovations as well, but in my opinion, the difference between WoW and EQ is enormous compared to the difference between WoW and Rift.

    "Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true – you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member

    It was an opportunity missed, but the way information about this game spreads every time they release something is pretty much viral.  No matter when or where they release game information, they will get plenty of media and fan input.  So it is not necessary to release info at big media events.

     

    They have all the candy, and pretty much everyone is standing around with their tongues out waiting for a treat.

  • AKASlaphappyAKASlaphappy Boise, IDPosts: 800Member

    Originally posted by tillamook

     

    Only time I see this is when someone comes in to troll. For the most part a lot of people were looking forward to playing both GW2 and SWTOR (yes you can enjoy more than one MMO), but now the folks who are die hard GW2 trolls are driving a lot of us who were looking forward to GW2 away.


    The funny part is I can say the same thing about the TOR fanatics that post in the GW2 forums! I will never understand why people post in game forums they are not interested in, if you are not going to play TOR then do not post in there forums and disrupt conversations. If you are not going to play TSW then do not go into their forums. What is the point of going there when you are not even going to play the game!

  • hardiconhardicon jackson, MSPosts: 358Member

    badspock, yeah im keeping my eye on gw2 also, just like i did on swtor.  biggest problem i think tor did was announce the game too early.  im sure it will be a great game, I wasnt trying to knock the game, yeah im a little frustrated that bioware didnt try to break the mold at all of what a mmo is, I expected alot more from that company.  It just wont be a game that I will enjoy because of the gear grind, got sick of that in wow, quit wow last year sometime to play rift.  realized that is all there is to do in rift, quit rift to go play city of heroes again.  im now getting sick of raiding every night for incarnate powers, getting ready to quit that and go play super mario again on the nintendo or space invaders on the atari.  just tired of the same old repetitive play and from everything released that I have seen swtor is gonna be highly repetitive gameplay when you are grinding for gear.  granted i havent paid much attention to this game in the last 8 months or so simply because im not interested in it anymore.  if i could play through the individual quest lines and have a never ending game id probably be happy but those will end one day and it will be raid or do nothing and get bored.

    not for certain gw2 is gonna be any different really, in fact im pretty sure it wont be.  but i am intentionally not trying to learn anything about that game and dont even know if i will get it, ill see what reviewers say at release and make a decision then. 

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick WonderlandPosts: 7,619Member

    Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

    Originally posted by tillamook


     

    Only time I see this is when someone comes in to troll. For the most part a lot of people were looking forward to playing both GW2 and SWTOR (yes you can enjoy more than one MMO), but now the folks who are die hard GW2 trolls are driving a lot of us who were looking forward to GW2 away.


    The funny part is I can say the same thing about the TOR fanatics that post in the GW2 forums! I will never understand why people post in game forums they are not interested in, if you are not going to play TOR then do not post in there forums and disrupt conversations. If you are not going to play TSW then do not go into their forums. What is the point of going there when you are not even going to play the game!

    Which brings up the question, do you have an interest in playing SWTOR? I do see you regularly visit and post on TOR threads, just wondering image

     

    Or to repeat your last comment, 'what is the point of going here when you are not even going to play the game?'

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

    Originally posted by cali59

     I have never understood the notion that WoW is an EQ clone.  Maybe it's all a question of degree, but I honestly don't see it.  WoW is quest based, EQ is grind based with few quests.  EQ has contested dungeons (variable instanced later), WoW has all instanced (sprawling at first, then linear).  EQ you have a limited number of skills at a time, WoW you have everything.  EQ has a harsh death penalty and corpse retrieval, WoW has armor degradation and a ghost walk back.  EQ is group based, WoW is solo.  I'm sure I could find a bunch of things that WoW did like and copied from EQ, but there's obviously a bunch of substantial gameplay features they didn't like.

    Whether you agree with even the notion of calling something a WoW clone or not, it's clear to me that Rift in particular used it as a starting point.  Compare the Rift UI to WoW's UI.  Very similar (and entirely unlike EQ's).  Holy trinity gameplay, global cooldown, linear instanced dungeons.  They added rifts and invasions, but they did it to supplement a very similar quest based structure.  They added the soul system, but it comes across as a much more flexible version of WoW's talent trees.

    That isn't to say that there aren't other innovations as well, but in my opinion, the difference between WoW and EQ is enormous compared to the difference between WoW and Rift.

     

    WoW is just more like EQ, than like m59, UO, AC, AO, CoH, or SWG - i.e. just about every other MMO that came before WoW.  I'd add DAOC, except that it is kind of like DAOC without the RvR, too.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • RivalenRivalen TaviraPosts: 503Member

    Preety sure that anyone that is getting massively disapointed with SW:ToR was either expecting SWG or some format changing game.

    SW:ToR follows the same formula as Rift...a themepark game that is polished and introduces some changes, i followed the game extensively untill they revealed that they were using Trinity gameplay, and even before that alot of information was given about how the game would be designed.

    SW:ToR has alot of great features and i'm sure it will be sucessfull as what it is:

    A sci-fi themepark, trinity gameplay MMORPG with great story and voice acting.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by AKASlaphappy
    The funny part is I can say the same thing about the TOR fanatics that post in the GW2 forums! I will never understand why people post in game forums they are not interested in, if you are not going to play TOR then do not post in there forums and disrupt conversations. If you are not going to play TSW then do not go into their forums. What is the point of going there when you are not even going to play the game!

    The sad thing is the ToR hate flows into General Discussion and even the GW2 forum as well. People bash ToR all over the place on this site. Hell I cant even read a GW2 feature without someone coming along and saying how ToR failing. There is no comparison to ToR hate vs GW2 hate. It is boiling over everywhere not just ToR forums. I actually think there are people that are pro GW2 for no other reason than they hate ToR.

  • PuremallacePuremallace Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,856Member

    Originally posted by Foomerang

    The sad thing is the ToR hate flows into General Discussion and even the GW2 forum as well. People bash ToR all over the place on this site. Hell I cant even read a GW2 feature without someone coming along and saying how ToR failing. There is no comparison to ToR hate vs GW2 hate. It is boiling over everywhere not just ToR forums. I actually think there are people that are pro GW2 for no other reason than they hate ToR.

    Pretty sure Rift gets more hate with ToR in a close second.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Puremallace

    Originally posted by Foomerang

    The sad thing is the ToR hate flows into General Discussion and even the GW2 forum as well. People bash ToR all over the place on this site. Hell I cant even read a GW2 feature without someone coming along and saying how ToR failing. There is no comparison to ToR hate vs GW2 hate. It is boiling over everywhere not just ToR forums. I actually think there are people that are pro GW2 for no other reason than they hate ToR.
    Pretty sure Rift gets more hate with ToR in a close second.


    Yeah Rift is a special case. Usually after an mmo has been out for a few months, the hate dies down. But for some reason, Rift is another hate magnet long after launch.
  • LauZaIMLauZaIM Chiefland, FLPosts: 46Member

    I reccommend the other of this article check out this sticky on the official forums. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=300223 It has tons of information on TOR. 

    Not only that but I would like to point out that we know more information on TOR then we do GW2.

     

    "yet gamers have already seen and tried out the game’s character creation, all of the announced races, have played low, mid, and high level content, participated in PvP matches, and even taken part in large scale PvE dynamic events."

    You try and make a point here too, and it completely ignores that this has been done with TOR as well. Low mid and high content was shown at Gamescom, PvP was shown at Gamescom, and PVE dynamic events is another name for scripted events.

     

    I'm dissapointed in this website for writing up articles just to cause controversy by exploited idiots by not giving them the correct information and then making  straw man argument for your article.

  • Distopia2Distopia2 Baltimore, MDPosts: 574Member

    I wasn't expecting much considering they said a few weeks back they didn't really have any major announcements left.

    To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.

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  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    I think you honestly you got your expectations out of whack Mike.

    You got a new warzone and a playable demo on an endgame raid. Which is unheard of for an mmo.

    Plus we have Pax coming up this week. Then shortly after will be beta weekends.

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