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Doing things differently. (compiled list of what SW:TOR does differently to the standard MMOs)

whilanwhilan Everett, WAPosts: 3,172Member Uncommon

Okay I see the comment a lot, and i don't mean just here. But i see it a lot that people will state that the game isn't doing anything differently from the standard MMO, and i'm going to try and make a list of everything the game is doing differently so people can see as it may not be entirely apparent at first sight. Note this isn't about innovation so just becuase a feature i'm listing is in some remote MMO doesn't mean it doesn't belong on this list. Note things like auto attack and fast cooldowns don't meet this list because quite a few MMOs do this.

I"m going to split this up in sections.

Combat: The big one,mind as well start here. 

Duck and cover: yes two classes get this but it's still a new way to do combat.  How it works is that you select an enemy then hit the duck and cover button to roll behind cover. While you are behind cover (provided the cover is high enough) the enemy will basically hit the cover instead of you causing you to take no damage. But if you come out of cover to say...take a shot at the enemy, you are at risk of getting hit yourself. This provides a different way of combat from the straight up tank, the blasting of a mage or the use of invis to get behind the target. Think cops and robbers type thing.

CC immunity bar

If you continue to get hit by CCs either by other players or NPCs you will become immune which is different from other games where the CC immunity is more basd on stats and if you are not skilled in resisting the stat that the enemy is using there is a good chance (especially with players) that you can be locked down becoming completely ineffective.

Heavy use of pets

Most MMos tend to have one or two pet classes here everyone is, and they are highly customizable from anywhere from looks to AI control to types to being able to equip them to the same complexity as your main character. Thus spliting your character into two seperate parts.

Lets move on to crafting

Companions are involved in crafting. Their abilities tell who is better at crafting certain items better then others thus providing a bit more complexity to crafting then normal. Most games have the character actually crafting. Some are more complex but in most cases the game requires you to gather mats, the blueprint then hit craft and voila you have the mats. Rarer is when their is a timer on said item allowing for a more realistic crafting time as it takes time to put things together.

Timer

This is a differnet way to go about crafting, it's been done before but not often enough to feel stale or done to death so it sort of fits.  Crafting takes time (as i outlined above) to do. If you gather the mats and the blueprints. When you hit craft you have a timer until the item is complete. THe player doesn't really have any control over the item but it's a middle road between player control and just hitting the craft button and getting the item. Think Fallen earth here.

Crits

While not completely new, it's different from most MMOs i've seen where you either get the item or you don't. Here appearntly you can get a better version of the weapon. (this one is debatable on the list, so far 3 MMOs have been listed)

Lets move on to character customization, this one i'm going to have to split into parts because theres a good bit here.

Light and dark allignment

Your allignment has a few effects on character customization. Note this is as far as i know purely cosmetic so it doesn't change how well your character does.

Light/dark allignment changes your skills: this gives your character a more defined look as your skills change as you slide up and down the allignment changes.

Armor dependant on your alignment: some armor is dependant on your allignment, such as some armor requires a certain ranking of light/dark to equip

Your face for force users changes based on your allignment allowing for a different look for your charcther if your really dark sided your face distorts and looks...well evil.

NPCs react to your dark and light allignment

Some dialog options close off based on your allignment

Equipment customization.

Equipment is based more solely on what mods you have in your weapon and armor rather then the equipment itself, equipment more solely bases on how many mods are allowed in said equipment that will then depict your stats from there.

The mods you have in your weapon/armor depict your weapons sound and color (ala lightsaber colors or blaster fire)

These two basically (assuming you can take mods in and out at will) allow for you to make any weapon you want provided you have the original, even take a low level weapon and armor such as if you like the brown robe from level 1, you could improve it to the stat where you can use that same brown robe for end-game.

Questing

This is probably the biggest change and departure and where all the focus/innovation is coming in.

Voice over, as much as people might like to try and deny or say it's a passing phase theres a differnece between just text and voice acting.  Most games have some voice acting and some not, but no game has the level of voice acting this game does.  Thus it's a very big depature on how they do quests.

Interaction with npcs, such as talking back and forth with them, even being able to hit them.

Choices in quests allowing you to take different versions of the quest which result in different experiences when you play out the quest, and even different rewards. Most MMOs have you simply doing a quest for said reward, however here what you do in the actual quest when taking progressing and turning in change how the quest ends and what rewards you get.

Pursasion is an optino in questing, allowing you to attempt to get the upper hand by using a stat you invested in to get better rewards that might not be available to one who doesn't.

multiplayer dialog, to my knowledge this is an innovation but people are free to correct me if they've run into this before. But allowing a person to affect someone elses quest via dialog seems a pretty big depature from how normal MMOs do it where you can either do the quest and complete your own or help someone else do theres but the interaction stops when they go to turn in the quest, not so here, group interaction is not only allowed but encouraged as you get rewarded for doing group dialog and interacting in others quests.

Hologram system

This allows you to not only turn in quests remotely but allows you to join in others peoples quest even if your not close but are still on the same planet. Far as i know the way this is implemented with being able to make decisions in others peoples quests without having to actually be there hasn't been done before.

Companions

Being able to influence your companion from light to dark or dark to light

Influences your crafting abilities.

Getting quests from your companions if you talk to them enough.

Companions are able to go from loving you to betraying you even to crying in your ship if you are a total jerk to them.

 

Dungeons (aka flashpoints)

Changing dungeons based on choices in the dungeons

Players can get access to alternate paths and different bosses if they of the right class

Different loot at the end of flashpoints based on the decisions made in the flashpoint

 

PvP

As mentioned above there is a CC immunity bar that everyone must be aware of and it's visable which gives for a more tatic route. Also this keeps players from being stun locked by another class merely because they lack the resistance to overcome said CC.

Warriors and healers can actually preform the desired role they want in PvP they did in PvE as they get rewarded for doing said role.

Warrior taunt works in PvP by making it undesirable for people to attack others besides the tank as their damage is severaly reduced.

 

Exploration

Exploration in this game give you several rewards including,

Datacrons (which give permanent stat boosts): This isn't normal as i think only one other game did this and it was more of a grind thing where as these are more of a reward for exploration

options for dialog with your companions: Again this is tied in with the companion but getting to certain exploration areas can give you new oppertunities for dialog with your npcs as they comment on the areas

codex entries: Your lore background

 

Misc

We finally get to the misc category which is basically everything i didn't feel fit into th other categories or wasn't enough to warrent a whole new category

Codex entries: This is where you get all your lore from anytime you run into some you can easily look back at this codex to get a refresher, this can include anything from a temple to a boss to companions or items which tend to be quite descriptive.

No loading for instances: When you do eventually enter a instance in the game there is a green barrier which indicates an instance, this is completely instantanious and does not require loading, so you can go into your instance do what you want walk backwards walk forward enter someone elses instance, do their thing then back up and walk forward back into your instance all without ever hitting one loading screen...ever.

Cheoregraphed combat: This one might be cosmetic but most games have you just swinging away as if you were swining at air. EQ2 was the biggest offender i've ever seen of this where you have literal gap where you can clearly see that not only are they not synced with each other but not even close but still hitting each other. In this game you can actually clash swords which makes things more beliveable.

 

Obviously this list can be amended as new things that are done differently (not innovative, lets not confuse the term, just done differently from the norm aka the standard) then most other MMOs or it comes out that things on this list are a normal part of MMOs (hopefully i've done my research and that won't happen much)

Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

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Comments

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member

    I browsed only quickly through that, but you left something important out, one of the most important thing to me at least, it's not only sci-fi but under one of the richest sci-fi fantasy worlds ever. Before some rabid-fan of fantasy (I love fantasy too even if it's over done) rushes in to say "It's just fantasy with a sci-fi skin" - yes, that's what sets sci-fi and fantay apart. In fantasy you shoot fireballs from a wooden stick, in sci-fi you shoot lazors from metal stick, in fantasy you open a locked door with a key or spell, in sci-fi you open a locked door with explosives or hacking AND SO ON. Finally we get a change of scenery and feel!

  • SanHorSanHor ZagrebPosts: 336Member

    The only thing that TOR is doing differently and is worth mentioning is a complete voice over story. Reading your list just proves that even further.

    And more than half of the things you mentioned has already been done in other MMOs. Perhaps you meant what SWTOR does differently to WOW? Don't know..

  • fonyfony hempstead, NYPosts: 755Member

    Hologram system

    This allows you to not only turn in quests remotely but allows you to join in others peoples quest even if your not close but are still on the same planet. Far as i know again as above this isn't in any MMO that im aware of.

     

    WoW does exactly this. you could share quests with your group from afar for a while now, and you accept/turn in quests remotely since Cataclysm launched.

     

     

    Dungeons (aka flashpoints)

    Changing dungeons based on choices in the dungeons

    Players can get access to alternate paths and different bosses if they of the right class

    Different loot at the end of flashpoints based on the decisions made in the flashpoint

     

    been known about as a feature of GW2 dungeons for almost two years, except it's not based on what class you bring.

     

    Codex entries: This is where you get all your lore from anytime you run into some you can easily look back at this codex to get a refresher, this can include anything from a temple to a boss to companions or items which tend to be quite descriptive.

     

    No different than GW2 journal. exactly the same.

     

     

    Equipment customization.

    Equipment is based more solely on what mods you have in your weapon and armor rather then the equipment itself, equipment more solely bases on how many mods are allowed in said equipment that will then depict your stats from there.

    The mods you have in your weapon/armor depict your weapons sound and color (ala lightsaber colors or blaster fire)

     

    this part is unique and sets TOR apart.

     

    These two basically (assuming you can take mods in and out at will) allow for you to make any weapon you want provided you have the original, even take a low level weapon and armor such as if you like the brown robe from level 1, you could improve it to the stat where you can use that same brown robe for end-game.

     

    this is how it is in GW2.

  • IsawaIsawa Middle 0 Nowhere, ORPosts: 1,051Member

    Originally posted by SanHor

    And more than half of the things you mentioned has already been done in other MMOs. Perhaps you meant what SWTOR does differently to WOW? Don't know..

    The tricky part about this is that the op would have to have played every single mmorpg game out there to perfectly narrow down such a list.

    In addition to having nice rewards for exploring (which serves the role to actually make people want to explore - scary thought) , I'm hoping for some epic scenary and overall visually awesome encounters to witness...some quests far off the normal path would be a nice addition too.

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce MelbournePosts: 559Member

    Originally posted by SanHor

    The only thing that TOR is doing differently and is worth mentioning is a complete voice over story. Reading your list just proves that even further.

    And more than half of the things you mentioned has already been done in other MMOs. Perhaps you meant what SWTOR does differently to WOW? Don't know..

    Everything has been done before. There is nothing 'original' anymore. The trick is to improve on those existing features and add your own twist to it. I can list a lot of features from GW2 and TSW which have been done before but still they feel fresh and different.

    Sorry but your expectations are too high if after reading this entire list you are still only focusing on 'voice over' as something different. I haven't played any MMO where companions form such integral part of story, take part in crafting, can be customized, have their own storylines. and even provide you with quests.

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  • WilliacWilliac AarhusPosts: 212Member

    Dungeons (aka flashpoints)

    Changing dungeons based on choices in the dungeons

    Players can get access to alternate paths and different bosses if they of the right class

    Different loot at the end of flashpoints based on the decisions made in the flashpoint

     

    been known about as a feature of GW2 dungeons for almost two years, except it's not based on what class you bring.



    As TOR is most likely to launch before GW2 and considering the importance of story I'd say the honour falls on TOR :)

  • whilanwhilan Everett, WAPosts: 3,172Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fony

    Hologram system

    This allows you to not only turn in quests remotely but allows you to join in others peoples quest even if your not close but are still on the same planet. Far as i know again as above this isn't in any MMO that im aware of.

     

    WoW does exactly this. you could share quests with your group from afar for a while now, and you accept/turn in quests remotely since Cataclysm launched.

     I will grant you that you can share quests in WoW but the hologram doesn't share quests, this just allows you to be involved in their quests, the only thing that i will give you is that you can turn in quests remotely which i wasn't aware of  you could in WoW as i've not played it recently not even during cata i stopped a long time ago. But again this is standard MMOs i will amend the part of not seeing it in an MMO, to not implemented in the same way as the hologram system isn't a share button it's allowing you to remotely be apart of someones quest.

     

    Dungeons (aka flashpoints)

    Changing dungeons based on choices in the dungeons

    Players can get access to alternate paths and different bosses if they of the right class

    Different loot at the end of flashpoints based on the decisions made in the flashpoint

     

    been known about as a feature of GW2 dungeons for almost two years, except it's not based on what class you bring.

    Not really released but regardless this is more of different from standard MMOs as stated, I'll change the title to reflect that.

    (more to the posters then to the one i quoted) note i did state this isn't a list of innovations so if you find it in another MMO but it's not a standard to MMOs then it fits the list.

    So stating such as oh GW2 does this already, doesn't really negate it from this list if they are the only other one doing this sort of thing. 

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • fonyfony hempstead, NYPosts: 755Member

    Originally posted by Williac

    Dungeons (aka flashpoints)

    Changing dungeons based on choices in the dungeons

    Players can get access to alternate paths and different bosses if they of the right class

    Different loot at the end of flashpoints based on the decisions made in the flashpoint

     

    been known about as a feature of GW2 dungeons for almost two years, except it's not based on what class you bring.



    As TOR is most likely to launch before GW2 and considering the importance of story I'd say the honour falls on TOR :)

    it's the same as first run story mode dungeons except for the varying loot.

  • fonyfony hempstead, NYPosts: 755Member

    most of these are things that TOR does differently, but the ones i highlighted are not done differently. that's wat the topic was about.

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce MelbournePosts: 559Member

    Originally posted by fony

    Hologram system

    This allows you to not only turn in quests remotely but allows you to join in others peoples quest even if your not close but are still on the same planet. Far as i know again as above this isn't in any MMO that im aware of.

     

    WoW does exactly this. you could share quests with your group from afar for a while now, and you accept/turn in quests remotely since Cataclysm launched.

     

     

    Dungeons (aka flashpoints)

    Changing dungeons based on choices in the dungeons

    Players can get access to alternate paths and different bosses if they of the right class

    Different loot at the end of flashpoints based on the decisions made in the flashpoint

     

    been known about as a feature of GW2 dungeons for almost two years, except it's not based on what class you bring.

     

    Codex entries: This is where you get all your lore from anytime you run into some you can easily look back at this codex to get a refresher, this can include anything from a temple to a boss to companions or items which tend to be quite descriptive.

     

    No different than GW2 journal. exactly the same.

     

     

    Equipment customization.

    Equipment is based more solely on what mods you have in your weapon and armor rather then the equipment itself, equipment more solely bases on how many mods are allowed in said equipment that will then depict your stats from there.

    The mods you have in your weapon/armor depict your weapons sound and color (ala lightsaber colors or blaster fire)

     

    this part is unique and sets TOR apart.

     

    These two basically (assuming you can take mods in and out at will) allow for you to make any weapon you want provided you have the original, even take a low level weapon and armor such as if you like the brown robe from level 1, you could improve it to the stat where you can use that same brown robe for end-game.

     

    this is how it is in GW2.

    Talking about released MMOS here. Since GW2 is not released it doesn't make all these features of SWTOR less unique or different.

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  • fonyfony hempstead, NYPosts: 755Member

    Originally posted by Chilliesauce

    Originally posted by SanHor

    The only thing that TOR is doing differently and is worth mentioning is a complete voice over story. Reading your list just proves that even further.

    And more than half of the things you mentioned has already been done in other MMOs. Perhaps you meant what SWTOR does differently to WOW? Don't know..

    Everything has been done before. There is nothing 'original' anymore. The trick is to improve on those existing features and add your own twist to it. I can list a lot of features from GW2 and TSW which have been done before but still they feel fresh and different.

    Sorry but your expectations are too high if after reading this entire list you are still only focusing on 'voice over' as something different. I haven't played any MMO where companions form such integral part of story, take part in crafting, can be customized, have their own storylines. and even provide you with quests.

     SWTOR, TSW and GW2 actually do have alot of new features(at least new to the genre) and overall have alot of things that feel very new due to implementation. i wouldn't say that "everything" in either game has been done before. to say that you'd have to boil TOR/TSW/GW2 down to the most basic level.

  • whilanwhilan Everett, WAPosts: 3,172Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by gordiflu

    Sir, with all due respects, I am afraid you haven't played many MMOs. I am saying this becouse many of the things you list as "new" or "never donde before" have actually been done before. Some of them on very mainstream MMOs like WoW or Lotro.

    I am not going to go through your list, or this would be a very long post but I can quickly mention experience gain on exploration (done, example: Lotro) crits of crafting (done and it's a very simplistic system when compared to other systems like SWG, Ryzom or VG), diminishing returns on CC (WoW), item customization (endless list), etc etc.

    I am not a hater, just in case. However, I do think you are a fanboi and are not seeing things with objectivity. Small changes here and there are not what I call "innovation". Rather "evolution". I asume that SWTOR is not 100% a carbon copy of certain MMO, but then this can be said of any MMO. They all do certain things in a different way. This does not make them innovative anyway.

     

    Took out exp and rare bosses and loot because those are done in quite a few MMOs that was meant more as an overview but i can't switch from a list things that are done differently to an overview mid phase. So i took them out.

    Again guys and i understand it as you just skimed but you missed the point. These are things that you don't normally see in MMOs or are implemented quite a bit differently to have a different feel to the norm, it's what makes ToR stand out as hey that feels different from other MMOs. Not that oh this one MMO does it so take it off the list.

    This isn't an innovation llist, this is just a list of things that are done differently then the standard MMO, colored this red for notice as people are confusing different from standard MMOs from innovation.

    People also need to remember this is a work in progress, if you can show me or prove this is something that has been done enough to be normal for MMOs then i'll remove it from the list as i did with the exp, rare bosses and loot from exploration.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • taus01taus01 MunichPosts: 1,352Member

    Originally posted by whilan

    This isn't an innovation llist, this is just a list of things that are done differently then the standard MMO, colored this red for notice as people are confusing different from standard MMOs from innovation.

     

    Just let it go. There is really nothing new and exciting in TOR except more "ear candy" with full voice overs. Hardly an achievment at all. Even the graphics are by today's standard at least 3 generations old, barely better than WoW.

    Everything you list has been done in one way or the other already. Fully customizable companions with their own level/abilities, personality and equipment has been done in FF11 around 5 years ago, much better than what i read for TOR. Timed Crafting is as old as the MMO genre and your equipment customization has been done even in crappy Asian/Korean grinders a million times.

    Please, just let it go and take the game for what it is. A standard Themepark MMORPG with full voice overs. This is good enough for me to give it a try.

    Stop making it sound like TOR is the big "I am so different" MMO out there.

    Face the facts and enjoy the game.

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

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  • kilunkilun Apopka, FLPosts: 709Member Common

    Originally posted by whilan

    Originally posted by gordiflu

    Sir, with all due respects, I am afraid you haven't played many MMOs. I am saying this becouse many of the things you list as "new" or "never donde before" have actually been done before. Some of them on very mainstream MMOs like WoW or Lotro.

    I am not going to go through your list, or this would be a very long post but I can quickly mention experience gain on exploration (done, example: Lotro) crits of crafting (done and it's a very simplistic system when compared to other systems like SWG, Ryzom or VG), diminishing returns on CC (WoW), item customization (endless list), etc etc.

    I am not a hater, just in case. However, I do think you are a fanboi and are not seeing things with objectivity. Small changes here and there are not what I call "innovation". Rather "evolution". I asume that SWTOR is not 100% a carbon copy of certain MMO, but then this can be said of any MMO. They all do certain things in a different way. This does not make them innovative anyway.

     

     

    This isn't an innovation llist, this is just a list of things that are done differently then the standard MMO, colored this red for notice as people are confusing different from standard MMOs from innovation.

     

    What is standard?  To me that means any AAA release, if its been done in one, its a standard feature.  Your whole combat thing was done in swg pre-cu.  Kneel, Prone, etc and with range modifiers.  As others have stated there really is only two features new to the genre this is really doing, the way equipment works(and that is speculation, so most people don't understand it yet, but TSW seems to be doing basically the same thing it seems, time will tell) and of course the voicing.

    www.ozumgames.com

  • GMan3GMan3 Ewa Beach, HIPosts: 2,127Member

    Originally posted by kilun

    Originally posted by whilan

     

    This isn't an innovation llist, this is just a list of things that are done differently then the standard MMO, colored this red for notice as people are confusing different from standard MMOs from innovation. 

    What is standard?  To me that means any AAA release, if its been done in one, its a standard feature.  Your whole combat thing was done in swg pre-cu.  Kneel, Prone, etc and with range modifiers.  As others have stated there really is only two features new to the genre this is really doing, the way equipment works(and that is speculation, so most people don't understand it yet, but TSW seems to be doing basically the same thing it seems, time will tell) and of course the voicing.

         I'm sorry, kilun, but I can not agree with your statement.  If 1 game in 20 has a feature, that does not make it a standard, that makes it an exception, the standard would actually be that games do NOT have the feature.  So basically now only one game has a cover mechanic (that I know of at least), since pre-cu SWG has been dead for a long time now and SWG is about to breath it's last breath.  So Whilan's statement that this game does have a lot of Non-Standard features and is therefore "Doing things differently" is correct.  Many of them may not be innovative, but he never claimed that.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce MelbournePosts: 559Member

    Originally posted by taus01

    Originally posted by whilan

    This isn't an innovation llist, this is just a list of things that are done differently then the standard MMO, colored this red for notice as people are confusing different from standard MMOs from innovation.

     

    Just let it go. There is really nothing new and exciting in TOR except more "ear candy" with full voice overs. Hardly an achievment at all. Even the graphics are by today's standard at least 3 generations old, barely better than WoW.

    Everything you list has been done in one way or the other already. Fully customizable companions with their own level/abilities, personality and equipment has been done in FF11 around 5 years ago, much better than what i read for TOR. Timed Crafting is as old as the MMO genre and your equipment customization has been done even in crappy Asian/Korean grinders a million times.

    Please, just let it go and take the game for what it is. A standard Themepark MMORPG with full voice overs. This is good enough for me to give it a try.

    Stop making it sound like TOR is the big "I am so different" MMO out there.

    Face the facts and enjoy the game.

    FFXI companions were limited in function. Did they help you with crafting? nope. Did they offer you quests? nope. Like i said before everything has been done  in some way or the other. All new MMOS are improving on the existing features and that is also known as innovation. So yeah please let it go considering OP wasn't talking about some sort of revolution but doing things differently.

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  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAPosts: 1,326Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by whilan

    Okay I see the comment a lot, and i don't mean just here. But i see it a lot that people will state that the game isn't doing anything differently from the standard MMO, and i'm going to try and make a list of everything the game is doing differently so people can see as it may not be entirely apparent at first sight. Note this isn't about innovation so just becuase a feature i'm listing is in some remote MMO doesn't mean it doesn't belong on this list. Note things like auto attack and fast cooldowns don't meet this list because quite a few MMOs do this.

    I"m going to split this up in sections.

    Combat: The big one,mind as well start here. 

    Duck and cover: yes two classes get this but it's still a new way to do combat.  How it works is that you select an enemy then hit the duck and cover button to roll behind cover. While you are behind cover (provided the cover is high enough) the enemy will basically hit the cover instead of you causing you to take no damage. But if you come out of cover to say...take a shot at the enemy, you are at risk of getting hit yourself. This provides a different way of combat from the straight up tank, the blasting of a mage or the use of invis to get behind the target. Think cops and robbers type thing.

    CC immunity bar

    If you continue to get hit by CCs either by other players or NPCs you will become immune which is different from other games where the CC immunity is more basd on stats and if you are not skilled in resisting the stat that the enemy is using there is a good chance (especially with players) that you can be locked down becoming completely ineffective.

    Heavy use of pets

    Most MMos tend to have one or two pet classes here everyone is, and they are highly customizable from anywhere from looks to AI control to types to being able to equip them to the same complexity as your main character. Thus spliting your character into two seperate parts.

    Lets move on to crafting

    Companions are involved in crafting. Their abilities tell who is better at crafting certain items better then others thus providing a bit more complexity to crafting then normal. Most games have the character actually crafting. Some are more complex but in most cases the game requires you to gather mats, the blueprint then hit craft and voila you have the mats. Rarer is when their is a timer on said item allowing for a more realistic crafting time as it takes time to put things together.

    Timer

    This is a differnet way to go about crafting, it's been done before but not often enough to feel stale or done to death so it sort of fits.  Crafting takes time (as i outlined above) to do. If you gather the mats and the blueprints. When you hit craft you have a timer until the item is complete. THe player doesn't really have any control over the item but it's a middle road between player control and just hitting the craft button and getting the item. Think Fallen earth here.

    Crits

    While not completely new, it's different from most MMOs i've seen where you either get the item or you don't. Here appearntly you can get a better version of the weapon. (this one is debatable on the list, so far 3 MMOs have been listed)

    Lets move on to character customization, this one i'm going to have to split into parts because theres a good bit here.

    Light and dark allignment

    Your allignment has a few effects on character customization. Note this is as far as i know purely cosmetic so it doesn't change how well your character does.

    Light/dark allignment changes your skills: this gives your character a more defined look as your skills change as you slide up and down the allignment changes.

    Armor dependant on your alignment: some armor is dependant on your allignment, such as some armor requires a certain ranking of light/dark to equip

    Your face for force users changes based on your allignment allowing for a different look for your charcther if your really dark sided your face distorts and looks...well evil.

    NPCs react to your dark and light allignment

    Some dialog options close off based on your allignment

    Equipment customization.

    Equipment is based more solely on what mods you have in your weapon and armor rather then the equipment itself, equipment more solely bases on how many mods are allowed in said equipment that will then depict your stats from there.

    The mods you have in your weapon/armor depict your weapons sound and color (ala lightsaber colors or blaster fire)

    These two basically (assuming you can take mods in and out at will) allow for you to make any weapon you want provided you have the original, even take a low level weapon and armor such as if you like the brown robe from level 1, you could improve it to the stat where you can use that same brown robe for end-game.

    Questing

    This is probably the biggest change and departure and where all the focus/innovation is coming in.

    Voice over, as much as people might like to try and deny or say it's a passing phase theres a differnece between just text and voice acting.  Most games have some voice acting and some not, but no game has the level of voice acting this game does.  Thus it's a very big depature on how they do quests.

    Interaction with npcs, such as talking back and forth with them, even being able to hit them.

    Choices in quests allowing you to take different versions of the quest which result in different experiences when you play out the quest, and even different rewards. Most MMOs have you simply doing a quest for said reward, however here what you do in the actual quest when taking progressing and turning in change how the quest ends and what rewards you get.

    Pursasion is an optino in questing, allowing you to attempt to get the upper hand by using a stat you invested in to get better rewards that might not be available to one who doesn't.

    multiplayer dialog, to my knowledge this is an innovation but people are free to correct me if they've run into this before. But allowing a person to affect someone elses quest via dialog seems a pretty big depature from how normal MMOs do it where you can either do the quest and complete your own or help someone else do theres but the interaction stops when they go to turn in the quest, not so here, group interaction is not only allowed but encouraged as you get rewarded for doing group dialog and interacting in others quests.

    Hologram system

    This allows you to not only turn in quests remotely but allows you to join in others peoples quest even if your not close but are still on the same planet. Far as i know the way this is implemented with being able to make decisions in others peoples quests without having to actually be there hasn't been done before.

    Companions

    Being able to influence your companion from light to dark or dark to light

    Influences your crafting abilities.

    Getting quests from your companions if you talk to them enough.

    Companions are able to go from loving you to betraying you even to crying in your ship if you are a total jerk to them.

     

    Dungeons (aka flashpoints)

    Changing dungeons based on choices in the dungeons

    Players can get access to alternate paths and different bosses if they of the right class

    Different loot at the end of flashpoints based on the decisions made in the flashpoint

     

    PvP

    As mentioned above there is a CC immunity bar that everyone must be aware of and it's visable which gives for a more tatic route. Also this keeps players from being stun locked by another class merely because they lack the resistance to overcome said CC.

    Warriors and healers can actually preform the desired role they want in PvP they did in PvE as they get rewarded for doing said role.

    Warrior taunt works in PvP by making it undesirable for people to attack others besides the tank as their damage is severaly reduced.

     

    Exploration

    Exploration in this game give you several rewards including,

    Datacrons (which give permanent stat boosts): This isn't normal as i think only one other game did this and it was more of a grind thing where as these are more of a reward for exploration

    options for dialog with your companions: Again this is tied in with the companion but getting to certain exploration areas can give you new oppertunities for dialog with your npcs as they comment on the areas

    codex entries: Your lore background

     

    Misc

    We finally get to the misc category which is basically everything i didn't feel fit into th other categories or wasn't enough to warrent a whole new category

    Codex entries: This is where you get all your lore from anytime you run into some you can easily look back at this codex to get a refresher, this can include anything from a temple to a boss to companions or items which tend to be quite descriptive.

    No loading for instances: When you do eventually enter a instance in the game there is a green barrier which indicates an instance, this is completely instantanious and does not require loading, so you can go into your instance do what you want walk backwards walk forward enter someone elses instance, do their thing then back up and walk forward back into your instance all without ever hitting one loading screen...ever.

    Cheoregraphed combat: This one might be cosmetic but most games have you just swinging away as if you were swining at air. EQ2 was the biggest offender i've ever seen of this where you have literal gap where you can clearly see that not only are they not synced with each other but not even close but still hitting each other. In this game you can actually clash swords which makes things more beliveable.

     

    Obviously this list can be amended as new things that are done differently (not innovative, lets not confuse the term, just done differently from the norm aka the standard) then most other MMOs or it comes out that things on this list are a normal part of MMOs (hopefully i've done my research and that won't happen much)

    Sorry .. but nothing new here .. Everything on this list has been done before...

  • GMan3GMan3 Ewa Beach, HIPosts: 2,127Member

    Originally posted by Scorchien

    Sorry .. but nothing new here .. Everything on this list has been done before...

         Really?  A completely Voiced Over MMO has been done before?  The huge utility of Companions has been done in an MMO before?  Anyways, that was not the premise of the OP.  He simply said he was making a list of what SWTOR is doing differently than most standard MMOs.  Utilizing some features that other games have used, but is not a standard is doing things differently.  Maybe next time you should actually read the post instead of jumping to conclusions.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Scorchien

    Sorry .. but nothing new here .. Everything on this list has been done before...

    Everything? come on now. I am not a hardcore SWTOR fan but even i can see many different features. Voiced quests, companion system along with companion crafting, choreographed combat, the dungeons where outcome depends upon the choices you have made just to name the few.

    Ofcourse some things have been done before but then in how many MMOS have you seen such an extensive pet system or such focus on stroyline with voice overs? there are some features which are standard and are repeated a lot and  some features that you have only seen in one or two MMOS before.  It is all about doing things ina different way or add your own twist to already existing features.

    The day you find a 100% unique and innovative MMO which doesn't use a single feature from traditional pool, let me know i will gladly join you.

  • JuJutsuJuJutsu Toronto, ONPosts: 331Member

    "Sorry .. but nothing new here .. Everything on this list has been done before..."

    Back it up. Please give one other game that's done something on the list before. If you can....

  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAPosts: 1,326Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by GMan3

    Originally posted by Scorchien

    Sorry .. but nothing new here .. Everything on this list has been done before...

         Really?  A completely Voiced Over MMO has been done before?  The huge utility of Companions has been done in an MMO before?  Anyways, that was not the premise of the OP.  He simply said he was making a list of what SWTOR is doing differently than most standard MMOs.  Utilizing some features that other games have used, but is not a standard is doing things differently.  Maybe next time you should actually read the post instead of jumping to conclusions.

    lol thats what yer gonna stand on .. from that massive list you are gonna hang yer hat on Voice overs.. ..Voice over been done plenty enough in other games and honestly its not that impressive in ToR either and many people will turn it before long because .it becomes annoying or for technical problems..

  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAPosts: 1,326Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by JuJutsu

    "Sorry .. but nothing new here .. Everything on this list has been done before..."

    Back it up. Please give one other game that's done something on the list before. If you can....

    pick somthing

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Scorchien

    Originally posted by GMan3


    Originally posted by Scorchien

    Sorry .. but nothing new here .. Everything on this list has been done before...

         Really?  A completely Voiced Over MMO has been done before?  The huge utility of Companions has been done in an MMO before?  Anyways, that was not the premise of the OP.  He simply said he was making a list of what SWTOR is doing differently than most standard MMOs.  Utilizing some features that other games have used, but is not a standard is doing things differently.  Maybe next time you should actually read the post instead of jumping to conclusions.

    lol thats what yer gonna stand on .. from that massive list you are gonna hang yer hat on Voice overs.. ..Voice over been done plenty enough in other games and honestly its not that impressive in ToR either and many people will turn it before long because .it becomes annoying or for technical problems..

    Your selective reading is the problem here. It is not just voice over but also the companion system along with choreographed combat, dungeons outcome that depends upon the decisions made by you and what side you belong are just few examples. So saying 'nothing' is new here is completely false maybe that is the reason why you ignore my last post too.

    The point of OP was to show doing things differently froma standard MMO and not talk about bringing some revolution to MMO scene.

  • JuJutsuJuJutsu Toronto, ONPosts: 331Member

    Originally posted by Scorchien

    Originally posted by JuJutsu

    "Sorry .. but nothing new here .. Everything on this list has been done before..."

    Back it up. Please give one other game that's done something on the list before. If you can....

    pick somthing

     

    Companions

    Being able to influence your companion from light to dark or dark to light

    Influences your crafting abilities.

    Getting quests from your companions if you talk to them enough.

    Companions are able to go from loving you to betraying you even to crying in your ship if you are a total jerk to them.

  • ZezdaZezda Posts: 685Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by whilan

     

    Combat: The big one,mind as well start here. 

    Duck and cover: yes two classes get this but it's still a new way to do combat.  How it works is that you select an enemy then hit the duck and cover button to roll behind cover. While you are behind cover (provided the cover is high enough) the enemy will basically hit the cover instead of you causing you to take no damage. But if you come out of cover to say...take a shot at the enemy, you are at risk of getting hit yourself. This provides a different way of combat from the straight up tank, the blasting of a mage or the use of invis to get behind the target. Think cops and robbers type thing.

    Been done in lots of other MMO's which uses an arguably better system via line of sight mechanics. Mostly things like darkfall and such but also others. Even CORPG's like GW1 have had a feature like this - labeling it duck or cover doesn't make it much different, let alone the fact it's only for 2 classes.

    CC immunity bar

    If you continue to get hit by CCs either by other players or NPCs you will become immune which is different from other games where the CC immunity is more basd on stats and if you are not skilled in resisting the stat that the enemy is using there is a good chance (especially with players) that you can be locked down becoming completely ineffective.

    Many MMO's include a system to reduce the timer on CC's eventually leading to immunity. WoW does it, for example.

    Heavy use of pets

    Most MMos tend to have one or two pet classes here everyone is, and they are highly customizable from anywhere from looks to AI control to types to being able to equip them to the same complexity as your main character. Thus spliting your character into two seperate parts.

    Cant think of any ither MMO's off the top of my head which let pets go into this complexity but unless it is done well it could be just adding needless complexion (Like GW1 or Rift's skill systems). Gonna have to play the game to get a better idea on this one I think.

    Lets move on to crafting

    Companions are involved in crafting. Their abilities tell who is better at crafting certain items better then others thus providing a bit more complexity to crafting then normal. Most games have the character actually crafting. Some are more complex but in most cases the game requires you to gather mats, the blueprint then hit craft and voila you have the mats. Rarer is when their is a timer on said item allowing for a more realistic crafting time as it takes time to put things together.

    Timer

    This is a differnet way to go about crafting, it's been done before but not often enough to feel stale or done to death so it sort of fits.  Crafting takes time (as i outlined above) to do. If you gather the mats and the blueprints. When you hit craft you have a timer until the item is complete. THe player doesn't really have any control over the item but it's a middle road between player control and just hitting the craft button and getting the item. Think Fallen earth here.

    These aspects of the crafting have been done before and it is very much upto the game on wether or not it turns out better or worse than 'standard'. Going to be another wait and see thing.

    Crits

    While not completely new, it's different from most MMOs i've seen where you either get the item or you don't. Here appearntly you can get a better version of the weapon. (this one is debatable on the list, so far 3 MMOs have been listed)

    Crits have been done in quite a few games, including Aion. For the most part it is nothing but frustrating because the non-crit version of items are vastly inferior and vastly cheaper than the crit items.

    Lets move on to character customization, this one i'm going to have to split into parts because theres a good bit here.

    Light and dark allignment

    Your allignment has a few effects on character customization. Note this is as far as i know purely cosmetic so it doesn't change how well your character does.

    Light/dark allignment changes your skills: this gives your character a more defined look as your skills change as you slide up and down the allignment changes.

    Armor dependant on your alignment: some armor is dependant on your allignment, such as some armor requires a certain ranking of light/dark to equip

    Your face for force users changes based on your allignment allowing for a different look for your charcther if your really dark sided your face distorts and looks...well evil.

    NPCs react to your dark and light allignment

    Some dialog options close off based on your allignment

    I can't think of another MMO that has matched TOR in this respect but we do all need to admit this sort of interaction has been standard affair for RPG games for a few years now. So while it may be new to MMO's it certainly isn't new for Bioware. It does fit the setting well though as it's one of those things that wouldn't work in every game (See it wouldn't work very well in GW2 for example since there isn't a good vs evil thing going on)

    Equipment customization.

    Equipment is based more solely on what mods you have in your weapon and armor rather then the equipment itself, equipment more solely bases on how many mods are allowed in said equipment that will then depict your stats from there.

    The mods you have in your weapon/armor depict your weapons sound and color (ala lightsaber colors or blaster fire)

    These two basically (assuming you can take mods in and out at will) allow for you to make any weapon you want provided you have the original, even take a low level weapon and armor such as if you like the brown robe from level 1, you could improve it to the stat where you can use that same brown robe for end-game.

    This has been done to varying degrees in many MMO's, one of the more successful and recent being Aion. In Aion a large portion of your stats and such came from manastones and people often carried multiple sets of gear slotted with different sets of stones for different situations.

    Questing

    This is probably the biggest change and departure and where all the focus/innovation is coming in.

    Voice over, as much as people might like to try and deny or say it's a passing phase theres a differnece between just text and voice acting.  Most games have some voice acting and some not, but no game has the level of voice acting this game does.  Thus it's a very big depature on how they do quests.

    Interaction with npcs, such as talking back and forth with them, even being able to hit them.

    Choices in quests allowing you to take different versions of the quest which result in different experiences when you play out the quest, and even different rewards. Most MMOs have you simply doing a quest for said reward, however here what you do in the actual quest when taking progressing and turning in change how the quest ends and what rewards you get.

    Pursasion is an optino in questing, allowing you to attempt to get the upper hand by using a stat you invested in to get better rewards that might not be available to one who doesn't.

    multiplayer dialog, to my knowledge this is an innovation but people are free to correct me if they've run into this before. But allowing a person to affect someone elses quest via dialog seems a pretty big depature from how normal MMOs do it where you can either do the quest and complete your own or help someone else do theres but the interaction stops when they go to turn in the quest, not so here, group interaction is not only allowed but encouraged as you get rewarded for doing group dialog and interacting in others quests.

    This is TOR's big seeling point, it's good. But after you go through that wonderful cut-scene and get the same quest objective as 5 other people who are doing the same thing it kills the immersion a bit. I can still appreciate it but we have been getting this sort of stuff out of single player games for over a decade (Planescape: Torment was wonderful for these sorts of dialogue choices). We will need to see how this works for the game as a whole.

    Hologram system

    This allows you to not only turn in quests remotely but allows you to join in others peoples quest even if your not close but are still on the same planet. Far as i know the way this is implemented with being able to make decisions in others peoples quests without having to actually be there hasn't been done before.

    A similar system is employed in WoW to share and hand in quests.

    Companions

    Being able to influence your companion from light to dark or dark to light

    Influences your crafting abilities.

    Getting quests from your companions if you talk to them enough.

    Companions are able to go from loving you to betraying you even to crying in your ship if you are a total jerk to them.

     Another single player staple put into the MMO. Going to have to wait and see on this one as well I think.

    Dungeons (aka flashpoints)

    Changing dungeons based on choices in the dungeons

    Players can get access to alternate paths and different bosses if they of the right class

    Different loot at the end of flashpoints based on the decisions made in the flashpoint

     I don't see the point in making things class based but this is one of the few things that hasn't really been done well yet in a MMO. Of course GW2 is going to have their dynamic events inside dungeons but for now I can't think of another MMO that does it.

    PvP

    As mentioned above there is a CC immunity bar that everyone must be aware of and it's visable which gives for a more tatic route. Also this keeps players from being stun locked by another class merely because they lack the resistance to overcome said CC.

    Warriors and healers can actually preform the desired role they want in PvP they did in PvE as they get rewarded for doing said role.

    Warrior taunt works in PvP by making it undesirable for people to attack others besides the tank as their damage is severaly reduced.

    Warhammer had a wonderful tank system with taunts and skills to help them be the focus of attention and so have other games. Having recieved damage and healing dealt counted is in quite a few games from what I understand and affects things like your ranking in a PQ in WAR, for example.

     

    Exploration

    Exploration in this game give you several rewards including,

    Datacrons (which give permanent stat boosts): This isn't normal as i think only one other game did this and it was more of a grind thing where as these are more of a reward for exploration

    options for dialog with your companions: Again this is tied in with the companion but getting to certain exploration areas can give you new oppertunities for dialog with your npcs as they comment on the areas

    codex entries: Your lore background

    The exploration thing I don't see as a good feature at all. First thing PvP'ers will want to do is go explore to min/max their stats.

    Codex is in quite a few games but the dialogue for companions isn't really in any other MMO. It's another one of those things we have had in single player for a long time.

     

    Misc

    We finally get to the misc category which is basically everything i didn't feel fit into th other categories or wasn't enough to warrent a whole new category

    Codex entries: This is where you get all your lore from anytime you run into some you can easily look back at this codex to get a refresher, this can include anything from a temple to a boss to companions or items which tend to be quite descriptive.

    Codex entries are in a few games and it's a really nice feature, it should be done in every game imo.

    No loading for instances: When you do eventually enter a instance in the game there is a green barrier which indicates an instance, this is completely instantanious and does not require loading, so you can go into your instance do what you want walk backwards walk forward enter someone elses instance, do their thing then back up and walk forward back into your instance all without ever hitting one loading screen...ever.

    That's phasing, it's being used in quite a few games now instead of having load screens and server transitions.

    Cheoregraphed combat: This one might be cosmetic but most games have you just swinging away as if you were swining at air. EQ2 was the biggest offender i've ever seen of this where you have literal gap where you can clearly see that not only are they not synced with each other but not even close but still hitting each other. In this game you can actually clash swords which makes things more beliveable.

    That's another one of these things taken from single player games and I've seen a few cases now where people take damage from attacks while the animation shows swords clashing etc, It's cool but we will need to see how it stands upto the test in PvP and such like.

     

    Thanks for the effort compiling the list - My replies are in red, it's a good list but I think either TOR will do well or bad depending on the quality of all these 'Yeah it's been done before in game x and y'. If it feels samey then people will get bored and stop, if they changed it up enough to keep people interested then it will help retain people longer.

    There's lot of stuff in there ported from single player games and to be honest most of it is going to have to be played a lot to see if it fits within the MMO style. I know personally that if I have done a quest in ME or DA before I skip all the talking as quickly as I can so I can just get on with it. So depending on how many quests branch across to other classes will determine how quickly the voice overs get old and people start skiping them.

    There's tons of potential in the game but even if it is executed to perfection I still wouldn't feel like it would be a safe bet that I would be playing it for years to come. Of course everyone's mileage may vary but with the sort of titles queing up for release now sticking with the traditional MMO could be risky in the long term.

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