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Over 6 yo - Still the best MMORPG in the World

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  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce Member Posts: 559

    Originally posted by lathaan

    now this is some serious flawed logic ^^

    You are now going to tell us how masses are dumb and give us example of Britney Spears and Mcdonalds right?

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  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    Originally posted by Zadawn

    Originally posted by jessie360

    You're forgetting one thing:

    most popular =/= best

    /thread

    things/persons/games etc are popular because they are good.

    the most popular=the best fullstop

    No i don't play WoW.

    Most popular = most broad appeal.

    Most broad appeal = considered good by large demographic group(s)

    You guys are arguing personal taste, opinion, which is impossible.

    /thread

  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072

    Originally posted by Benthon

    Originally posted by Lukain

    Blizzard had a huge advantage over most MMO Developers , The IP - Warcraft had such a huge following it was allways goingt to be a smash hit

     

    The smartest thing Blizzard did in making WOW  was the Style , they made it feel & look like you were in a Warcraft Game instead of making it with high res grafix & huge polygon counts ..

     

     This. They used a modified WC3 engine in order to keep that same look.

     

    This is why they keep recycling the same old crap. They have admitted that they would like to add all kinds of new things to the game, but it is simply not possible with the limitations of the poor engine in WoW. It's kind of good news considering Titan which should have more complex engine to support more ways to play the game and to add new features in future and not just recycle the same stuff we saw the day one like in WoW. It truly is amazing how WoW manages to keep population up, even if we count out WoW China, with adding nothing new expansion after expansion :)

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    World of warcraft might not be the "best" game for the personal tastes of everyones prefered playstyles, but the original poster makes a very valid point.

    I can't think of any game that comes anywhere close to wow in terms of being a product.   The attention to detail, smooth and responsive gameplay, level of polish, effort that goes into testing, variety of content, features, player development, etc.  

    The only reason wow has dominated the market for so long is that so many other games have released in such poor condition that they can not effectively compete.  The few that have released in decent quality have been little more than emulations of wow that give players little to no incentive to switch games.

    It is difficult to count the number of games that have released in the last seven years that have struggled and failed to even get the most basic features functional.  Some examples have been down right insulting to players with how poor they were released.

     

  • clankyaspclankyasp Member Posts: 213

    You guys cant label WoW as most popular, its not a movie where you just watch it once, its a MMO with Subcription..........so people continues to pay, play and enjoy.

    Dont compare Subcription based MMO with other stuffs like movies,books,foods or whatever crap.

    Blizzard is superior then any other company, look at their other games...Diablo,Starcraft etc and they all sales a lot , so now dont tell me they are most popular or whatever and not a good game.................

  • thexratedthexrated Member UncommonPosts: 1,368

    Originally posted by Daffid011

    World of warcraft might not be the "best" game for the personal tastes of everyones prefered playstyles, but the original poster makes a very valid point.

    I can't think of any game that comes anywhere close to wow in terms of being a product.   The attention to detail, smooth and responsive gameplay, level of polish, effort that goes into testing, variety of content, features, player development, etc.  

    The only reason wow has dominated the market for so long is that so many other games have released in such poor condition that they can not effectively compete.  The few that have released in decent quality have been little more than emulations of wow that give players little to no incentive to switch games.

    It is difficult to count the number of games that have released in the last seven years that have struggled and failed to even get the most basic features functional.  Some examples have been down right insulting to players with how poor they were released.

     

    You also have to consider that Blizzard is targeting quite different group of players with WoW than say CCP is with EVE. WoW is a good package for its target group. It offers, like you said, multitude of things to do in a very polished environment. It has also very low learning curve and is able to gather for type of gamers that do have that many hours in a week to play games, while still keeping more hardcore players interested. What it lacks in depth it does add with other features, creating an illusion of vast world with many things to do, but honestly, once you reach the maximum level, the stuff you can do is quite limited...but still very easy to access. And easy access, combined with others strong points, is what makes WoW the most popular MMO today. 

    "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  • causscauss Member UncommonPosts: 666

    Would be true.. if it still is a MMORPG. But WoW stopped being one a long time ago.

    Next.

  • mothefomothefo Member Posts: 30

    taking nothing away from WoW. it has earned the right to be king for so long. hopefully Blizz next mmo it's even better :)

  • ChimpsChimps Member Posts: 192

    WoW being the best mmorpg in the world is an opinion.

    I don't care how much it has sold or how many subscribers it has, that doesn't make it the best mmo in the world. If that was the case Rebecca Black & Justin Bieber would be the greatest singers on this planet.

  • tkoreapertkoreaper Member UncommonPosts: 412

    Is that why their subs have been slowly dwindling? It's lost over 600k since Rift came out. and lets not forget that a huge portion of their subs are from China. I am willing to bet any amount of money that if given the situation where everyone had to either start all over or be given the chance to exchange all their characters for equal characters in another game they would not start over and would switch to a different game.

    People are relunctant to leave not because of the game itself, but because of the ties they have gained from the game. (friends, guild, time wasted, ect) There's no doubt in my mind that people would move on if those ties were cut. 

  • 0guz0guz Member UncommonPosts: 287

    how the f... can someone play a game 5+ years man, there is something called boredom eweeeeeeee

  • tkoreapertkoreaper Member UncommonPosts: 412

    Originally posted by zymurgeist

    Originally posted by tkoreaper

    Is that why their subs have been slowly dwindling? It's lost over 600k since Rift came out.

     Active accounts not subs. One of these days people are going to get it right. Oh I forgot, it's all about hating on the game.

    ??? If you're subscribed to the games then essentially the account IS active.

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce Member Posts: 559

    Originally posted by tkoreaper

    Is that why their subs have been slowly dwindling? It's lost over 600k since Rift came out. and lets not forget that a huge portion of their subs are from China. I am willing to bet any amount of money that if given the situation where everyone had to either start all over or be given the chance to exchange all their characters for equal characters in another game they would not start over and would switch to a different game.

    People are relunctant to leave not because of the game itself, but because of the ties they have gained from the game. (friends, guild, time wasted, ect) There's no doubt in my mind that people would move on if those ties were cut. 

    Huge as in what percentage? i am pretty sure it is 50-50 or China has a slight edge in population. But even with recent loss in subs (which MMO has not lost subs after 7 years?) many MMO companies would kill to have numbers like that. Is it really a surprise that a game as old as WOW lost 600K subs? 

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  • tkoreapertkoreaper Member UncommonPosts: 412

    Originally posted by Chilliesauce

    Originally posted by tkoreaper

    Is that why their subs have been slowly dwindling? It's lost over 600k since Rift came out. and lets not forget that a huge portion of their subs are from China. I am willing to bet any amount of money that if given the situation where everyone had to either start all over or be given the chance to exchange all their characters for equal characters in another game they would not start over and would switch to a different game.

    People are relunctant to leave not because of the game itself, but because of the ties they have gained from the game. (friends, guild, time wasted, ect) There's no doubt in my mind that people would move on if those ties were cut. 

    Huge as in what percentage? i am pretty sure it is 50-50 or China has a slight edge in population. But even with recent loss in subs (which MMO has not lost subs after 7 years?) many MMO companies would kill to have numbers like that. Is it really a surprise that a game as old as WOW lost 600K subs? 

    The fact of the matter is WoW came at a prime time when the mmorpg genre was just starting to gain ground and since it's release not many competitive games have been released and those that have were just not able to play catch up and people were still devoted to WoW.

    But yes, china hold roughly 50% of WoW's population which has been discussed in the past. Just think how many people don't even play and just farm gold and sell it?

  • tkoreapertkoreaper Member UncommonPosts: 412

    Originally posted by zymurgeist

    Originally posted by tkoreaper


    Originally posted by zymurgeist


    Originally posted by tkoreaper

    Is that why their subs have been slowly dwindling? It's lost over 600k since Rift came out.

     Active accounts not subs. One of these days people are going to get it right. Oh I forgot, it's all about hating on the game.

    ??? If you're subscribed to the games then essentially the account IS active.

     Clueless. In China they don't even sell subscriptions. And for all you know they have gotten 800,000 new players in the last month. It's as stupid as the McDonalds argument.

    I'm well aware that China players pay per hour... it doesn't change the fact that they're essentially "subscribed".

  • arctarusarctarus Member UncommonPosts: 2,581

    WoW is still the best mmo, for 11.1 mil players out there. It just a preference thing, if you understand.  Does it caters to the lowest deniminator that some claim? Nope. Open your eyes and see that it just caters to a diffferent crowd, and majority in that.

    The old world of Azeroth especially, have alot of subtle things, like there's bones left behind after you're dead, errie voices when you reach UC, coversation between Arthas and he's dad? Graveyard on top of mountain etc that delicates to certain dev, smooth and nice combat animations ( which alot of games fail, imo ), areas thats being block off and left you wonder whats behind it, a sense of mysterious to it, etc  etc etc.....

     

    So Blizz have done alot of things right in there first mmo, apart from the WoW ip, if they hvnt and release something like VG during their release, they wont have the subs we looking at now. And because of the huge old world, there's still alot of rooms for expansions...

    Will it die 1 day? depends, if blizz no longer brings new ideas to the game, if they keep sticking to raid-or-die, tedious dailies , too much phasing, focus on their new mmo, than yes slowly but surely their subs will 1 day, and a very long day , will die off.

     

    RIP Orc Choppa

  • arctarusarctarus Member UncommonPosts: 2,581

    Originally posted by 0guz

    how the f... can someone play a game 5+ years man, there is something called boredom eweeeeeeee

     

    If you can love a girl forever, than 5 years, or even 7 is nothing... :D

    RIP Orc Choppa

  • arctarusarctarus Member UncommonPosts: 2,581

    Originally posted by zymurgeist

       

     

     

     Not by any cogent definition of the word "subscribed." You can hold a game time card for months without playing. Is your account active? No. Are you subscribed? No. Are you likely to play again in the future? Yes. Do you understand the distinction? Do the numbers you're putting out have any meaning? Not at all.

     Blizz did state for the last 1 month of active account, same as you can dont log in, but as long as you are still paying a sub every month, you're still a sub.

    In fact other mmo can also claim the same thing, if they can break into china

     

    RIP Orc Choppa

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce Member Posts: 559

    Originally posted by arctarus

    Originally posted by zymurgeist


       

     

     

     Not by any cogent definition of the word "subscribed." You can hold a game time card for months without playing. Is your account active? No. Are you subscribed? No. Are you likely to play again in the future? Yes. Do you understand the distinction? Do the numbers you're putting out have any meaning? Not at all.

     Blizz did state for the last 1 month of active account, same as you can dont log in, but as long as you are still paying a sub every month, you're still a sub.

    In fact other mmo can also claim the same thing, if they can break into china

     

    Yeah but first they have to break into western market because i don't remember any P2P MMO that olds 4  million subs in western market. So i hardly doubt other MMOS would be able to claim anything if they breakout in China.

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  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by thexrated

    You also have to consider that Blizzard is targeting quite different group of players with WoW than say CCP is with EVE. WoW is a good package for its target group. It offers, like you said, multitude of things to do in a very polished environment. It has also very low learning curve and is able to gather for type of gamers that do have that many hours in a week to play games, while still keeping more hardcore players interested. What it lacks in depth it does add with other features, creating an illusion of vast world with many things to do, but honestly, once you reach the maximum level, the stuff you can do is quite limited...but still very easy to access. And easy access, combined with others strong points, is what makes WoW the most popular MMO today. 

    Using Eve and Wow in the same comparison about difficulty is about the most extreme and unrelated example anyone could possibly use.  Eve is anything but intuitive and wow is the complete opposite.   That isn't a criticism of Eve and I do often play myself. 

    Most games that operate in the same segment that wow does are not massively difficult to play.  Most have extremely similar mechanics, but they lack an intuitive approach or are presented in such a way that they make things more difficult to relate to for no reason than poor presentation. 

    However it does bring up an interesting point.  Eve being a very niche oriented game of harsh death consequence pvp space sandbox player driven economy game, yet its subscriber numbers dominate almost every other mmo in the genre.   That is a huge compliment to Eve, because a niche extreme game that is often refered to as "spreadsheets online" is kicking the everliving snot out even most flashy massive AAA game games that operate in the largest most mainstream mmo market.   That just further illustrates how much of the market those games are missing as a result of their poor condition.

    Wow is a great product, but most certainly isn't the pinnacle of game design.  There is so much room for improvement or even catering to the interested of smaller segments in the overall fantasy setting that continue to go unaddressed.   Wow only dominates the market, because most of the market isn't delivering products on a competitive level.

  • tkoreapertkoreaper Member UncommonPosts: 412

    Originally posted by zymurgeist

    Originally posted by tkoreaper


    Originally posted by zymurgeist


    Originally posted by tkoreaper


    Originally posted by zymurgeist


    Originally posted by tkoreaper

    Is that why their subs have been slowly dwindling? It's lost over 600k since Rift came out.

     Active accounts not subs. One of these days people are going to get it right. Oh I forgot, it's all about hating on the game.

    ??? If you're subscribed to the games then essentially the account IS active.

     Clueless. In China they don't even sell subscriptions. And for all you know they have gotten 800,000 new players in the last month. It's as stupid as the McDonalds argument.

    I'm well aware that China players pay per hour... it doesn't change the fact that they're essentially "subscribed".

     Not by any cogent definition of the word "subscribed." You can hold a game time card for months without playing. Is your account active? No. Are you subscribed? No. Are you likely to play again in the future? Yes. Do you understand the distinction? Do the numbers you're putting out have any meaning? Not at all.

    That's why they look back and give their figures based on scope of a certain time frame... "X amount of accounts were playing within X amount of time". It's not that hard.

  • thexratedthexrated Member UncommonPosts: 1,368

    Originally posted by Daffid011

    Originally posted by thexrated



    You also have to consider that Blizzard is targeting quite different group of players with WoW than say CCP is with EVE. WoW is a good package for its target group. It offers, like you said, multitude of things to do in a very polished environment. It has also very low learning curve and is able to gather for type of gamers that do have that many hours in a week to play games, while still keeping more hardcore players interested. What it lacks in depth it does add with other features, creating an illusion of vast world with many things to do, but honestly, once you reach the maximum level, the stuff you can do is quite limited...but still very easy to access. And easy access, combined with others strong points, is what makes WoW the most popular MMO today. 

    Using Eve and Wow in the same comparison about difficulty is about the most extreme and unrelated example anyone could possibly use.  Eve is anything but intuitive and wow is the complete opposite.   That isn't a criticism of Eve and I do often play myself. 

    Why I used EVE as a comparison is because it is often used to represent the opposite.

    Most games that operate in the same segment that wow does are not massively difficult to play.  Most have extremely similar mechanics, but they lack an intuitive approach or are presented in such a way that they make things more difficult to relate to for no reason than poor presentation. 

    However it does bring up an interesting point.  Eve being a very niche oriented game of harsh death consequence pvp space sandbox player driven economy game, yet its subscriber numbers dominate almost every other mmo in the genre.   That is a huge compliment to Eve, because a niche extreme game that is often refered to as "spreadsheets online" is kicking the everliving snot out even most flashy massive AAA game games that operate in the largest most mainstream mmo market.   That just further illustrates how much of the market those games are missing as a result of their poor condition.

    Wow is a great product, but most certainly isn't the pinnacle of game design.  There is so much room for improvement or even catering to the interested of smaller segments in the overall fantasy setting that continue to go unaddressed.   Wow only dominates the market, because most of the market isn't delivering products on a competitive level.

    It is not only about complexity of a game but how much time is required to achieve anything worthwhile. In WoW, you get rewarded for very little efford, but with older games, and in games like Aion, achieving anything takes a lot more time...and repetition. WoW did not use to be this easy, but today it is. Its target audience is quite different from that what it was during the launch. 

    "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    WoW vs Eve is comparing apples to oranges, but I understood where you were going. 

     

    As for easy, that is how most games get when they age.  The difficulty hasn't really gotten less.  After nearly 7 years the gameplay is almost second nature and doesn't challenge the same way it used to.  It is hard to put that into words, so I hope that made sense.

    That isn't to say that some things have gotten "easier" so to speak.  Less xp to level, more rewards for grouping at lower levels and so on.  Most of that is aimed at retaining and growing the player base instead of letting the game grow entirely top heavy like so many other games have done.   Removing things that used to be achievements, but have turned into little more than time sinks and barriers has a certain value for a games long term health.  It might not be as hard as it was back in the day, but soloing, running dungeons, completing quests and raids are all the same difficulty they used to be. 

    I don't think the target audience is different as much as it is the existing playerbase has just gotten good at playing the game.  Not that there isn't some truth to what you say, but I just don't think it is as big as most make it out to be and fails to factor in the player element.

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    dont know if rift will beat it but it is a nice game with very nice graphic and smooth game

  • DianicDianic Member Posts: 69

    Agree with many... most popular =/= best.

    It is true... WoW is the Ford of the MMO industry.  Ford died & came back to life... WoW will experience the same... soon... 

    ....swtor....

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