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Pay 2 win becoming legitimate? Have we really lost our way this much?
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Most of us in MMO games have accustomed to repetitive timesinks as the only way for character development. But as the average gamer age is around 30's, our time priorities change and we realize that investing countless hours in leveling / gearing / raiding only to stay competitive at PvP is sometimes in detriment of our IRL schedules.
So, as long as the current MMO character advancement model stays based on timesinks, there will be a customer base for anyone that sells character advancement in any form. Pay-per-advancement has been with us since the very first times of MMOs and it won't be gone soon, so the best companies can do is minimize collateral damage (credit card scamming and such). The merit of Blizzard is realizing that very truth, and acting accordingly focusing in collateral damages instead of trying in vain to extinguish RMT trading.
The MMO game scene will change, truly, and most people will realize that as MMOs are NOT games of skill (or at least, not of pure skill in a Halo / Soul Calibur / DotA sense), RMT character advancing is NOT cheating.
If you pay £10 a month by subscribing, and £120 a year on average in game shops then it makes no difference. Some people are getting all hot under the collar because they are confusing cash shops that offer well balanced items and games that are deliberatly exploiting by offering best in slot items or consumables for cash. That is the only issue with cash shops.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
This is D3 we are talking about. An ARPG that shouldn't have had any kind of RMT linked to it period.
5 bucks for an item beats 4 hours raiding, then rolling with 6 others for 1 item any day!
Play for advantage equals pay for advantage.
Just as time equals money.
When It comes to MMOs I think RMT like this would be an excellent idea. Raids are a hassle I personally don't feel like dealing with
Be realistic, what you think as "should not" does not rule the world.
D2 has tons of cash shop, they are not run by Blizzard, but they are cash shop all the same. If you think Blizzard can stop RMT by withdrawing the RMAH option, dream on.
Says who?
It is naive to think you will stop RMT in a blockbuster game like D3. Blizzard tried it with D2 and it didn't worked.
If we stretch the comparison, what's the difference with me paying someone to sit in front of my pc to get 'Sword of Awesome' and me buying it straight up?
The second scenario gets rid of the shady stuff (key-loggers etc) that companies have to deal with when their customer uses RMTs.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I find many things in MMOs enjoying. Even levelling up and experiencing the content on the way there. Even if i only play a MMO for a month I still get my moneys worth considering single player games is over in a few days
I guess it is P2W.
Let's take D3 for example. Sure, you can buy a set of full "epics" (or what it's called in the new D3), for real cash, and you will become good on some level.
But those people who raid/farm 5 days a week, will finally get rewarded. It might only be 5 dollars a week, but it's still something. And those things you DO need, you can always keep for yourself.
Besides, let's face it; the MMORPG genre has opened it's doors for a more broad audience - and not everyone has 4-5 hours pr. day.
I think it's fair that P2W is present to some degree, but it should be renamed from Pay To Win, to "Pay To Compete"™
we need to start implementing PAY TO WIN more often in games. You pay extra money besides buying the game, and you don't even have to play the game, you win automatically and can move on to something else to do.
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The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
I think this is not far from the truth, and brings up several good points.
There is actually nothing wrong with starting at high level in an RPG, if that is where you really want to start playing. The problem with starting at cap in an MMO is due to the following:
1) It causes a lack of diversification of the playerbase. This means there are less players available with which to group for someone who does want to enjoy character development and a dynamic story with changing gameplay. It also means there are fewer players available for subordinate positions in a sandbox game (or at least fewer players with gears and stats suitable for taking such positions).
2) It lacks storyline. An MMORPG was supposed to be about players sharing storylines to some degree (it's called roleplaying). Not knowing how your character got to high level would make it more difficult to interact with other characters that had less superficial backgrounds.
3) It bypasses content. If 90% of a development team's effort went into the game design for lower levels, the game has a lot less appeal to someone who skips that 90%.
All of these things apply to Diablo 3 to some degree, as well. If you don't want to play the game to develop a character/avatar and its gear, why do you want to play at all? Why not just pay for the avatar and gear you want, then move on to a different game? If you did, it would prevent the true problem of someone like me having to tolerate you in my group.
The problem, of course, is that people don't really want what they think they want. That is why providing an RMAH will not work as expected.
I would prefer a system where everyone in the raid gets a component of the item.
The item may have 6 components, which would mean if you do the raid successfully 6 times, you get the item, no rolling.
I would not play that game.
The "wage" thing sounds horrible in the extreme, and would completely ruin my gaming experience if I had to go buy items from a shop just because I was subbed for a month.
I want my character to exist when it is logged into the game world, and to only earn items and money by killing mobs and doing quests.
This
You already play that game. He just defined the traditional MMO pricing model. You pay monthly, and the longer you can play the more stuff you get. If you can't play as much, you don't get as much as other players will.
HA HA HA HA....THIS is how bad the wool has been pulled over most of you!
When will you even get the smallest of clues that for some people, the game is actually playing the game - fighting mobs or other characters, completing quests, and making the character behave as if it really was a character in a fantasy novel.
You are the one sitting in an MMORPG forum without an iota of understanding of what these games are about or who they are for. I think you might need to search around a bit more to figure out who has really been conned. I would suggest looking in the mirror to start.
And i can still do all that ignoring the AH. So what is the problem? are you forced to use AH?
You are coming late to the party mate.
My suggestion to you would be to read the thread. This has already been covered, exhaustively.
No i am not late to the party; infact if you check in the beginning i have been discussing this issue and still havne't found one reasonable argument. No one is forced to use AH and one can easily continue to play ignoring it.
When will YOU get that nothing you just said changed the fact that what I said was the truth? They were suggesting they would not play the pricing model that he posted. I suggested they already do. The only REAL difference is that the way the TIME factor is spent is different. But in either case, you are paying, and playing, the very same same numerical factors. Also, if what you SAY is true...that PLAYING the game is all that matters to you...then NONE OF THIS RMT MATTER would bother you. You see, how someone else plays their game would not impact your choice to "grind mobs" and "complete quests". I have been an avid MMO player for longer than most of you even realized they exist. I KNOW what the game is about.
What you DONT know is that the core design of these games has nothing to do with the player. Its nearly always about time gates to keep subscribers. That model has proven faulty...as evidenced by the fact that F2P and B2P are the only way to succeed now (given that WoW is still the only Sub based model to continue to provide largely successful revenue). This market became VERY flooded once businessmen realized the financial potential of it. What they did not realize was that the only reason it WAS successful was that we had no other games like them. Now, over half of ever sub based game created have gone to a F2P pricing model to adjust to the market now.
Inevitably....the games will have to change again. The fact is that the players need to be able to do more in a shorter time, as their core market is aging now into adulthood and the time they have is greatly lessened. Trust me, a man like me with a wife, a kid, and a job, and a house he just bought to fix and take care of, has NO way to spend the 5-7 hours these games have, in the past, required in order to compete at end game. So, as of now, they are changing to allow a RMT model which gives that player a way to buy into the endgame. That model will also fail, but I won't delve into why here. Suffice it to say, what is NEEDED is more do to, and the ability to do it in less time.
However, thats barely even possible. Content doesn't create itself (unless you were smart enough to do what CoX and a few others have and allow player made content), and so you must pay for LARGER teams to create content to keep up with a playerbase that can do things faster. I expect soon we shall be discussing TWO MMO types....Player Created Content, and Big Budget. The standard MMO will see a Sub increase to 20$ to pay larger teams, and the alternative MMO will have to lean harder on finding ways to give players more tools to craft content themselves.
And NO, player made content does not always mean sandbox MMO. Certainly sandboxes need player made content...but you can actually have such in a themepark MMO as well. Regardless. I've gone far off-topic for what I wanted this reply to be.
Bottom line, I do have a clue. I cannot help that you still operate under some kind of imaginary view of what these games are. I won't say they aren't fun. They are. But they ARE DEFINITELY games that charge you to spend time, and lots of it, to achieve something. That is NO DIFFERENT that the model the other poster mentioned.
I agree with you SO HARD.
If a player never told you how they got their gear, you'd never know. You'd just play with them and be glad to have someone to experience the game with. Its not even your business HOW they got what they have. You need only concern yourself with how YOU do. Raithe has been absolutely obtuse this whole thread about some imaginary change in who they will play with because of this. People you play with already RMT. TONS of them do. You've never known before, and you won't know, or care, now.
It's a freaking game, if you don't have the time to play a game then don't play it, or only play it casually. I hate these people who think that becasue they have money they are entitled to bypass a game's mechanics.
Real life resources shouldn't factor AT ALL into one's in-game success.
I know i'd never play a game where success is based on how much RL cash you can throw in it instead of work and dedication.
I completely agree with you but it has always been part of mans internal programmings to find the fastest way to the "beat" someone else and it surfaces in many ways, cheating, throughing money at something, using someone else. All of those human charactaristics have found there way into MMO's and developers have found a way to profit from it.
Holy crap dude. You just mentioned the point, but can't argue it?
You see, it's not imaginary for about 50% of the people you play with. It's imaginary to you, because it's your playstyle. You don't see the problems you are creating for other people because they aren't creating problems for you.
Not only do I know that people that I play with use RMT, I can SPOT THEM FROM A MILE AWAY. I now know WAY MORE ABOUT YOU and your playstyle than I ever wanted to know.
You may not realize this, but there is actually a divide involved in this genre. About 30% of people respond to mmorpg.com polls that the CHIEF reason they play a mmorpg is to roleplay. ROLEPLAY. Get it in your head. Only 40% responded that they powergame.
I played Diablo and Diablo 2 to enjoy the story and to wipe out tons of demons and undead, and eventually get to kill the big bad boss demon himself. I don't play to have some grinder talk to me about his gear, or how I could get this cool new sword that worked better if I just payed $0.50 on the RMAH. I definitely don't play to have that same grinder cause more problems than he is worth in my group because he has never bothered to figure out how to play well with tactics.
What is imaginary for you is a very, very real problem for me. You think you own this genre. You don't, and my only real point in this thread is that you will see for yourself, if you bother to pay attention, why the RMAH will not work as people like you claim.