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Star Wars: The Old Republic: 'Welfare Epics'

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  • xKingdomxxKingdomx SydneyPosts: 1,541Member

    Originally posted by Foomerang

     




    Originally posted by Palebane





    Originally posted by Foomerang

     








    Please note, this feature is currently in Game Testing and may well be modified before launch.








     

    Whew! Im sure glad they put that disclaimer there at the end. Otherwise we might have had pages and pages of endless bickeri... oh wait.






     Oh, come on, Foom, don't try to depriciate our precious forum PvP.





    I was just spamming a little CC. By all means, continue DPSing.

     

    I thought we got rid of the trinity system? oh wait, thats GW2

     

    I think some people are thinking the gear drop from the loot container will always be the latest and greatest gear, it isn't, the article just says some form of gear, it doesn't mean you don't have to work for the better ones, it just means you aren't in conflict with your own group. I personally think it should have some sort of contribution tally, whoever contributed the most gets the bestest gear, then the second best and so on, but then, this isn't GW2 you can't tally much when you can only either take damage, dps or heal, but I'm sure the devs can work something out

    How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
    As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  • PalebanePalebane Tucson, AZPosts: 3,225Member

    Originally posted by Kendane

    Originally posted by Palebane


    Originally posted by Kendane


    Originally posted by Palebane

     Perhaps the irony of this is that many players look up to those elite players with their shiny epics. And well, if they can't get them too, the game is unfair. In comes loot containers for all.

     

    Yes, I know, the loot containers will curb ninja looters and corrupt loot distributuion; things that used to be dealt with by the players. I am happy that players will not get screwed over as much, but disappointed we've come to the point where we let the game mechanics dictate or depricate the social order we, as players, used to have control of. That was one of the aspects of these games that I actually enjoyed.

     And I'm asking how someone kill a boss and loot being decided by random chance is any different than the mob droping loot on its body by random chance, aside from everyone getting a consulation prize, and maybe a piece of epic loot.  Why does it matter how loot is distributed, why is someone handing out loot through a master loot system superior to random chance?  Who cares if someone gets their loot faster than someone else?  Generally in the raids I've been in even if someone has all the best gear, they go back to either help the guild, have fun, or both.  The way it worked in my WoW guild was you were on a list, you bid on an item, if you won it, you dropped to the bottom of the list, and could only move up if you were at a raid.  But this works out on any schdual, instead of some people intially having an advantage over someone else because they have more free time, or their free time warrents itself to raiding better than someone else.  If a hardcore raider can go on more raids, hes still going to get all his gear faster than someone who can only come half the time in most cases, and if the person that comes half the time gets lucky and gears up first, who cares?  That still means that when that person attends raids everyone will benefit from the increased damage.  Also theres less feeling discouraged because you got nothing, since sure you get a measly token, but at least its working towards something.

     It doesn't matter. Master looter is not superior to random chance. I cannot argue with your logic. As a bit of an underachiever, I really don't understand why players have to have the best gear in the first place. Is random chance superior to master looter in this regard?

     Look, I don't particularly care about having the best loot in the game either, that kind of stuff doesn't matter to me.  I was just wondering why it mattered how loot was distributed.  I was just wondering if there was any particular reason you prefered one system to the other.  Even if you have no reason, fair enough, so people prefer a particular method over another just because.  I was just curious, sorry if I sounded hostile, its just sometimes people against it seem to be elitists whose only reason is to keep gear to themselves.  As for your question if random chance is superior, I see getting anything better than the possibility of going through 3 raids getting absololutly nothing as an improvement, even if people might get frustrated with getting the consluation prize over epic loot after several runs.  But again, thats just my opinon.  Also wow these quote replys are getting long lol.

    Since you are curious, I highlighted my reason for prefering master looter over random chance in my above post. I didn't think you were being hostile. Your question was valid, and after further deliberation, I think you are right. For me, this mechanic is another step toward completely desocializing a genre that was built and based upon social interaction, whether or not it was always pleasant. As you said, it is just a preference.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community Manager Queens, NYPosts: 5,724Administrator Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nifa

     


    Originally posted by MikeB



    MMORPG.com Community Manager Michael Bitton discusses the recent revelations regarding Star Wars: The Old Republic's Operation loot distribution in this week's The Old Republic column.

    image


    Last week, we reported on a story that shed some light on BioWare’s current approach to loot distribution in Operations. Differing somewhat from other games on the market, BioWare’s approach involves granting all players an individual loot container at the end of a key Operation encounter. These containers will offer a chance at class-specific gear. Even in the absence of desired loot, the containers will, at the very least, contain commendations that can be traded for class-specific loot at appropriate vendors. Think Warhammer Online’s ‘PQ Bags,’ though there is no word on whether there will be different quality containers based on contribution level.

    Read more of Michael Bitton's Star Wars: The Old Republic: 'Welfare Epics'.

     

     

    Wow, Michael. Your word choice was so poor, I couldn't be bothered to read your article. Could you possibly come across as any more of an ass? If you play this game, I hope to God you aren't on my server - alternately, I hope I know your toon name, so I can instantly ignore you. People who use terms like 'welfare epic' are the type of people who gained WoW the dubious (and true) reputation of having the worst community in gaming. You'd think an industry writer would know better.

    Notice how the term is in quotes in the headline? And how I feel positively about the system while trying to reassure the 'welfare epics' crowd that everything will be alright? Oh right, you didn't read the article. ;)

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • KendaneKendane Las Cruces, NMPosts: 225Member

    Originally posted by Palebane

    Originally posted by Kendane


    Originally posted by Palebane


    Originally posted by Kendane


    Originally posted by Palebane

     Perhaps the irony of this is that many players look up to those elite players with their shiny epics. And well, if they can't get them too, the game is unfair. In comes loot containers for all.

     

    Yes, I know, the loot containers will curb ninja looters and corrupt loot distributuion; things that used to be dealt with by the players. I am happy that players will not get screwed over as much, but disappointed we've come to the point where we let the game mechanics dictate or depricate the social order we, as players, used to have control of. That was one of the aspects of these games that I actually enjoyed.

     And I'm asking how someone kill a boss and loot being decided by random chance is any different than the mob droping loot on its body by random chance, aside from everyone getting a consulation prize, and maybe a piece of epic loot.  Why does it matter how loot is distributed, why is someone handing out loot through a master loot system superior to random chance?  Who cares if someone gets their loot faster than someone else?  Generally in the raids I've been in even if someone has all the best gear, they go back to either help the guild, have fun, or both.  The way it worked in my WoW guild was you were on a list, you bid on an item, if you won it, you dropped to the bottom of the list, and could only move up if you were at a raid.  But this works out on any schdual, instead of some people intially having an advantage over someone else because they have more free time, or their free time warrents itself to raiding better than someone else.  If a hardcore raider can go on more raids, hes still going to get all his gear faster than someone who can only come half the time in most cases, and if the person that comes half the time gets lucky and gears up first, who cares?  That still means that when that person attends raids everyone will benefit from the increased damage.  Also theres less feeling discouraged because you got nothing, since sure you get a measly token, but at least its working towards something.

     It doesn't matter. Master looter is not superior to random chance. I cannot argue with your logic. As a bit of an underachiever, I really don't understand why players have to have the best gear in the first place. Is random chance superior to master looter in this regard?

     Look, I don't particularly care about having the best loot in the game either, that kind of stuff doesn't matter to me.  I was just wondering why it mattered how loot was distributed.  I was just wondering if there was any particular reason you prefered one system to the other.  Even if you have no reason, fair enough, so people prefer a particular method over another just because.  I was just curious, sorry if I sounded hostile, its just sometimes people against it seem to be elitists whose only reason is to keep gear to themselves.  As for your question if random chance is superior, I see getting anything better than the possibility of going through 3 raids getting absololutly nothing as an improvement, even if people might get frustrated with getting the consluation prize over epic loot after several runs.  But again, thats just my opinon.  Also wow these quote replys are getting long lol.

    Since you are curious, I highlighted my reason for prefering master looter over random chance in my above post. I didn't think you were being hostile. Your question was valid, and after further deliberation, I think you are right. For me, this mechanic is another step toward completely desocializing a genre that was built and based upon social interaction, whether or not it was always pleasant. As you said, it is just a preference.

     While I agree that getting rid of social interations is a bad thing, I think that it could be done in other areas.  Perhaps finding a way to make use of Cantinas to gain some sort of benefit while loged in to encorage interaction, or not having a looking for group system, or at least limit it to the server so you cant act like a total tool.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,594Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kendane

    Originally posted by Palebane


    Originally posted by Kendane


    Originally posted by Palebane


    Originally posted by Kendane


    Originally posted by Palebane

     Perhaps the irony of this is that many players look up to those elite players with their shiny epics. And well, if they can't get them too, the game is unfair. In comes loot containers for all.

     

    Yes, I know, the loot containers will curb ninja looters and corrupt loot distributuion; things that used to be dealt with by the players. I am happy that players will not get screwed over as much, but disappointed we've come to the point where we let the game mechanics dictate or depricate the social order we, as players, used to have control of. That was one of the aspects of these games that I actually enjoyed.

     And I'm asking how someone kill a boss and loot being decided by random chance is any different than the mob droping loot on its body by random chance, aside from everyone getting a consulation prize, and maybe a piece of epic loot.  Why does it matter how loot is distributed, why is someone handing out loot through a master loot system superior to random chance?  Who cares if someone gets their loot faster than someone else?  Generally in the raids I've been in even if someone has all the best gear, they go back to either help the guild, have fun, or both.  The way it worked in my WoW guild was you were on a list, you bid on an item, if you won it, you dropped to the bottom of the list, and could only move up if you were at a raid.  But this works out on any schdual, instead of some people intially having an advantage over someone else because they have more free time, or their free time warrents itself to raiding better than someone else.  If a hardcore raider can go on more raids, hes still going to get all his gear faster than someone who can only come half the time in most cases, and if the person that comes half the time gets lucky and gears up first, who cares?  That still means that when that person attends raids everyone will benefit from the increased damage.  Also theres less feeling discouraged because you got nothing, since sure you get a measly token, but at least its working towards something.

     It doesn't matter. Master looter is not superior to random chance. I cannot argue with your logic. As a bit of an underachiever, I really don't understand why players have to have the best gear in the first place. Is random chance superior to master looter in this regard?

     Look, I don't particularly care about having the best loot in the game either, that kind of stuff doesn't matter to me.  I was just wondering why it mattered how loot was distributed.  I was just wondering if there was any particular reason you prefered one system to the other.  Even if you have no reason, fair enough, so people prefer a particular method over another just because.  I was just curious, sorry if I sounded hostile, its just sometimes people against it seem to be elitists whose only reason is to keep gear to themselves.  As for your question if random chance is superior, I see getting anything better than the possibility of going through 3 raids getting absololutly nothing as an improvement, even if people might get frustrated with getting the consluation prize over epic loot after several runs.  But again, thats just my opinon.  Also wow these quote replys are getting long lol.

    Since you are curious, I highlighted my reason for prefering master looter over random chance in my above post. I didn't think you were being hostile. Your question was valid, and after further deliberation, I think you are right. For me, this mechanic is another step toward completely desocializing a genre that was built and based upon social interaction, whether or not it was always pleasant. As you said, it is just a preference.

     While I agree that getting rid of social interations is a bad thing, I think that it could be done in other areas.  Perhaps finding a way to make use of Cantinas to gain some sort of benefit while loged in to encorage interaction, or not having a looking for group system, or at least limit it to the server so you cant act like a total tool.

     

    Well... "Social interaction" isn't what it once was... At this point on the down slope, I see no reason what so ever for dealing with around 98% plus of the gaming population. Make that 99% plus of the general population... ^^  Designing games that rely on "social interaction" is setting ones game up to either fail, and/or become a haven for trolls and griefers. 

    Unless one is an ideologue, one deals with reality as it exists, rather than as one might wish it to be.  The reality is that WAY too many people these days have a distinct lack of civility, coupled with an entitlement complex the size of all out doors. Add in a near total lack of critical thinking, and thoughtfullness, and one has the general population, of which the gaming population is a sub set. 

    One of the ways that something like WoW's Dungeon Finder could be more useful, is to link it to ignore lists at *account* level.  That way, if someone is a total nit wit, you just /ignore them, and the system excludes them from any future matches with you.  Designing systems to deal with ones target audience (and their traits) makes good sense, from both a functionality perspective, as well as business wise. 

  • LoginnameLoginname Anywhere, NCPosts: 5Member

    I love the idea. It was terrible to run a raid over and over for a low percentage drop rate item. Only to lose the roll a few times to someone else. With the medalions you are working toward it each run.

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,013Member Uncommon

    The expectation of loot is one of the major problems with MMOs.  The loot system for time spent is an old paradigm with both negative and positive elements.  If only we could shift away from a loot system and progress this genre forward.

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member

    Its a good way to do things. Still doesn't make the game good enough to buy and not that much different than tokens and is still the same old, so it seems, gear grind hamester wheel. 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • PalebanePalebane Tucson, AZPosts: 3,225Member

    Originally posted by Wraithone

     

     Well... "Social interaction" isn't what it once was... At this point on the down slope, I see no reason what so ever for dealing with around 98% plus of the gaming population. Make that 99% plus of the general population... ^^  Designing games that rely on "social interaction" is setting ones game up to either fail, and/or become a haven for trolls and griefers. 

    Unless one is an ideologue, one deals with reality as it exists, rather than as one might wish it to be.  The reality is that WAY too many people these days have a distinct lack of civility, coupled with an entitlement complex the size of all out doors. Add in a near total lack of critical thinking, and thoughtfullness, and one has the general population, of which the gaming population is a sub set. 

    One of the ways that something like WoW's Dungeon Finder could be more useful, is to link it to ignore lists at *account* level.  That way, if someone is a total nit wit, you just /ignore them, and the system excludes them from any future matches with you.  Designing systems to deal with ones target audience (and their traits) makes good sense, from both a functionality perspective, as well as business wise. 

     While I agree with most of what you say, dealing with reality as it exists only works if one is not complacent about it. Ignoring the problem only serves to make it worse in many cases. There is no reason not to strive for more, save laziness or apathy. Why couldn't there be revolutionary game mechanics that cause players to want to work together and to help and care about one another? Perhaps online communities could eventually go a long way toward fixing the problems you speak of, not only in video games, but within humanity as a whole. I know its a huge stretch, but nothing is impossible.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • PuremallacePuremallace Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,856Member

    Originally posted by MikeB

    Notice how the term is in quotes in the headline? And how I feel positively about the system while trying to reassure the 'welfare epics' crowd that everything will be alright? Oh right, you didn't read the article. ;)

    lol talk about proving people do not actually read threads. How was this comedy gold skipped over with no comments? This is too funny and pure ownage.

  • RinnaRinna Las Vegas, NVPosts: 388Member

    I like the idea of individual loot bags a LOT.  The hardcores will still gear up faster and still see content that I'll never unlock or see, i'm sure.  

    No bitchers.

  • RevivialRevivial Clawson, MIPosts: 194Member

    Originally posted by Puremallace

    Originally posted by MikeB



    Notice how the term is in quotes in the headline? And how I feel positively about the system while trying to reassure the 'welfare epics' crowd that everything will be alright? Oh right, you didn't read the article. ;)

    lol talk about proving people do not actually read threads. How was this comedy gold skipped over with no comments? This is too funny and pure ownage.

     It would be funny on just about any other forum. Sadly its much to common here.

     

    Seems like the majority support this design decision around here.  Loot drama is the worst kind.

    "I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
    - John Galt

  • NifaNifa Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 324Member

    Originally posted by MikeB

    Originally posted by Nifa

     


    Originally posted by MikeB



    MMORPG.com Community Manager Michael Bitton discusses the recent revelations regarding Star Wars: The Old Republic's Operation loot distribution in this week's The Old Republic column.

    image


    Last week, we reported on a story that shed some light on BioWare’s current approach to loot distribution in Operations. Differing somewhat from other games on the market, BioWare’s approach involves granting all players an individual loot container at the end of a key Operation encounter. These containers will offer a chance at class-specific gear. Even in the absence of desired loot, the containers will, at the very least, contain commendations that can be traded for class-specific loot at appropriate vendors. Think Warhammer Online’s ‘PQ Bags,’ though there is no word on whether there will be different quality containers based on contribution level.

    Read more of Michael Bitton's Star Wars: The Old Republic: 'Welfare Epics'.

     

     

    Wow, Michael. Your word choice was so poor, I couldn't be bothered to read your article. Could you possibly come across as any more of an ass? If you play this game, I hope to God you aren't on my server - alternately, I hope I know your toon name, so I can instantly ignore you. People who use terms like 'welfare epic' are the type of people who gained WoW the dubious (and true) reputation of having the worst community in gaming. You'd think an industry writer would know better.

    Notice how the term is in quotes in the headline? And how I feel positively about the system while trying to reassure the 'welfare epics' crowd that everything will be alright? Oh right, you didn't read the article. ;)

    You're right, I didn't. I might... later.

    Fact is, the elitist jackasses that tend to have the point of view the terminology indicates find their way onto my ignore list very quickly anymore. I'm too old to tolerate the stupidity anymore (hence my canceled WoW account).

    /my lawn. Get off. ;)

    Firebrand Art

    "You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman

    Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr

  • PalebanePalebane Tucson, AZPosts: 3,225Member

    Originally posted by Nifa

    Fact is, the elitist jackasses that tend to have the point of view the terminology indicates find their way onto my ignore list very quickly anymore.

     So you are too elite for the elitist jackasses? Ironic.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • neorandomneorandom bev hills, CAPosts: 1,681Member

    Originally posted by Palebane

    Originally posted by Wraithone

     

     Well... "Social interaction" isn't what it once was... At this point on the down slope, I see no reason what so ever for dealing with around 98% plus of the gaming population. Make that 99% plus of the general population... ^^  Designing games that rely on "social interaction" is setting ones game up to either fail, and/or become a haven for trolls and griefers. 

    Unless one is an ideologue, one deals with reality as it exists, rather than as one might wish it to be.  The reality is that WAY too many people these days have a distinct lack of civility, coupled with an entitlement complex the size of all out doors. Add in a near total lack of critical thinking, and thoughtfullness, and one has the general population, of which the gaming population is a sub set. 

    One of the ways that something like WoW's Dungeon Finder could be more useful, is to link it to ignore lists at *account* level.  That way, if someone is a total nit wit, you just /ignore them, and the system excludes them from any future matches with you.  Designing systems to deal with ones target audience (and their traits) makes good sense, from both a functionality perspective, as well as business wise. 

     While I agree with most of what you say, dealing with reality as it exists only works if one is not complacent about it. Ignoring the problem only serves to make it worse in many cases. There is no reason not to strive for more, save laziness or apathy. Why couldn't there be revolutionary game mechanics that cause players to want to work together and to help and care about one another? Perhaps online communities could eventually go a long way toward fixing the problems you speak of, not only in video games, but within humanity as a whole. I know its a huge stretch, but nothing is impossible.

    humanity is a lost cause, greed and corruption are now bread into the dna of every new fukwit born.  theres no fixing whats left of the species, only extinction can cure them now.

  • JorendoJorendo EdePosts: 263Member

    Originally posted by toodlepip123



    Im amazed that some people think its a terrible idea for others to have access to base gear. Guess what? If you want good epics, switch the difficulty of the raid to max.

     

    Running the same raid over and over ad infinitum and not seeing the drop you want, and when it does finally drop, you have to roll against other people for it...  Yea.. that is not fun at all.

     

    Bioware are distributing loot the right way. The only thing that has not been confirmed is the amount of commendations that you could recieve in the loot bag. It could only be 1, with a single piece of gear costing 10+


    Totally agree with this. I never been a raider in WoW, a big part of it was because of the low changes you would even get the gear. First you must hope the item even drops and then in most raid guilds you had to build up points before you where even allowed to roll for it. Minimizing the already few changes you had to ever get it. And sorry for those who where the uber raiders, but i had a social life, i was still in college and i found getting  my diploma a bit more important then getting that epic sword or what ever and saterdays i was in a bar for hours with friends instead of being in a raid.


     

    So if you didn't spend 90% of your life in raids you could kiss those epics goodbye. Yeah thats nice and fair. Only those who didn't need 6+ hours sleep per night or had no job/school could get a change to get epics with the last few years of WoW's raid guilds. YOu should check the demand list for fun, how many hours you should be aviable. And missing one raid would give you a warning...with 2 missed raids you where out. Totally forgetting it was just a game and that unlike some raiders most people have a social life, job/school, any other reason why they can't spend a insane ammount of time in the game.
  • kwaikwai frederikshavnPosts: 830Member

    Well in some ways its good and some ways its bad, but again the mmo companies now a days tend to cater to all the carebears of gaming, to get that certain piece of item shouldn't be easy, but then again shouldn't be super hard either, but to just give a loot container to each member, psssh,  the raid content will be over before the game even got a month old, just look at Rift.

    Less than a month into that game, people had already conquered most of greenscale, if end game becomes to easy, the game becomes boring as fuck.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    This is not about killing bosses Kendane or who gets what loot. It is about needing a group of trusted friends to do raids. Easymode ruins that and it is one of the strongest factors which makes a player feel part of an online community.


     


    Anything that makes players need to attend, on a regular basis for more than a brief amount of time and work in a team makes players see a MMO as their online life. Otherwise it is just a solo game with other players online with you.


     


    It is a question of balance, I would not recommend a MMO play style that requires players to be on every evening in a raid (or whatever) team. But say twice a week for four hours a go is hardly a prison sentence.


     


    We will all differ on how much time we think we can spend. But if we don’t do enough extended play as a group or guild with that feeling of achieving something together it is a solo game in all but name.


     


    As to SWTOR I am not following the game that closely (I never do prelaunch); so hard to say where it will be regarding this issue.

  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member

    Originally posted by kwai

    Well in some ways its good and some ways its bad, but again the mmo companies now a days tend to cater to all the carebears of gaming, to get that certain piece of item shouldn't be easy, but then again shouldn't be super hard either, but to just give a loot container to each member, psssh,  the raid content will be over before the game even got a month old, just look at Rift.

    Less than a month into that game, people had already conquered most of greenscale, if end game becomes to easy, the game becomes boring as fuck.

    YES, each toon gets a bag, NO that bag does not guarantee the player that fabled drop.  IT gives you a "chance".  What that chance is we don't know, BW has not and probably will not give us the percentages.  So, we could end up with the exact same raid grind that we currently have in every other MMO out today.  Selective reading is just as bad as selective listening and when you assume...

    We're just going to have to wait and see when the game is released.  It could be easier, it could be harder or it just might be exactly the same as it is now with the exception of the rolling for loot being done behind the scene.

    You are right though, if the end game is easy, it does become BORING.

    image
  • NifaNifa Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 324Member

    Originally posted by Palebane

    Originally posted by Nifa

    Fact is, the elitist jackasses that tend to have the point of view the terminology indicates find their way onto my ignore list very quickly anymore.

     So you are too elite for the elitist jackasses? Ironic.

    What you call elite, I call being tired of putting up with people whose entire estimation of a player is based around what gear they're wearing. /shrug

    Personally, I don't appreciate and won't tolerate players who openly insult anyone based on gear choices (particularly if the gear choices are proper for their class and spec and the player hasn't been able to get anything better and is able to do just fine with what they're wearing), but that's just me. To each their own.

    Have a nice day.

    Firebrand Art

    "You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman

    Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr

  • PalebanePalebane Tucson, AZPosts: 3,225Member

     






    Originally posted by neorandom







    humanity is a lost cause, greed and corruption are now bread into the dna of every new fukwit born.  theres no fixing whats left of the species, only extinction can cure them now.



     I used to feel that way when I was younger. I guess my perspective changed when I had children. I'm obligated to see things more positively now. There is still hope, I see it in my son's eyes every day.

     






    What you call elite, I call being tired of putting up with people whose entire estimation of a player is based around what gear they're wearing. /shrug

    Personally, I don't appreciate and won't tolerate players who openly insult anyone based on gear choices (particularly if the gear choices are proper for their class and spec and the player hasn't been able to get anything better and is able to do just fine with what they're wearing), but that's just me. To each their own.


    I agree with you. It's still ironic though. =)

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • XodrocXodroc Salem, ORPosts: 5Member

    This is one of the things I hate about themepark games,  the whole loot vending model. The endless cycle of adding new to content to make gear from the previous content obsolete.  How long before they'll have to come up with pretty lame story excuses just to add a new hampster maze with tastier treats.  

     

    I would much rather see a fully player crafted system akin to SWG, which was one of it's greatest srengths, before they tried and failed to turn it into a themepark game.   Not gonna happen of course.

    Blah

  • MalagarrMalagarr West Columbia, SCPosts: 13Member

    I can't help but laugh anytime I hear the phrase "welfare epics".  I imagine Vork from The Guild being the prime recipient of welfare epics...as in, he mooches off everyone else IRL so that he can spend all his time in game "earning" uber lewtz.

    Anyhow, I like this proposed system.  If they can tie in contribution to the value of the rewards, all the better.

  • SpazzinSpazzin Brockton, MAPosts: 1Member

    I like this option Bioware is considering. As I get older with more and more real life responsibilities (Work, House, Kid on the way) I find myself with less and less time to invest hours upon hours into an MMO so it will be nice to know I will get something for my efforts even if it's not an all nighter.

  • xKingdomxxKingdomx SydneyPosts: 1,541Member

    Originally posted by neorandom

    Originally posted by Palebane


    Originally posted by Wraithone

     

     Well... "Social interaction" isn't what it once was... At this point on the down slope, I see no reason what so ever for dealing with around 98% plus of the gaming population. Make that 99% plus of the general population... ^^  Designing games that rely on "social interaction" is setting ones game up to either fail, and/or become a haven for trolls and griefers. 

    Unless one is an ideologue, one deals with reality as it exists, rather than as one might wish it to be.  The reality is that WAY too many people these days have a distinct lack of civility, coupled with an entitlement complex the size of all out doors. Add in a near total lack of critical thinking, and thoughtfullness, and one has the general population, of which the gaming population is a sub set. 

    One of the ways that something like WoW's Dungeon Finder could be more useful, is to link it to ignore lists at *account* level.  That way, if someone is a total nit wit, you just /ignore them, and the system excludes them from any future matches with you.  Designing systems to deal with ones target audience (and their traits) makes good sense, from both a functionality perspective, as well as business wise. 

     While I agree with most of what you say, dealing with reality as it exists only works if one is not complacent about it. Ignoring the problem only serves to make it worse in many cases. There is no reason not to strive for more, save laziness or apathy. Why couldn't there be revolutionary game mechanics that cause players to want to work together and to help and care about one another? Perhaps online communities could eventually go a long way toward fixing the problems you speak of, not only in video games, but within humanity as a whole. I know its a huge stretch, but nothing is impossible.

    humanity is a lost cause, greed and corruption are now bread into the dna of every new fukwit born.  theres no fixing whats left of the species, only extinction can cure them now.

    Unless you are an Alien, I suggest you change you phasing to "only extinction can cure US now"

    This is a game, why so serious..........if you want to argue human is greedy, well we were doomed from the very beginning, Greed is a basic human emotion, it is impossible for any human to not feel greed at one moment of their lives and not felt compell by it. It is because of this greed that drives people to achieve and earn things, the negative is only when people are so compelled by it that they decided to hurt others just so they can gain their own satisifaction, thats not Greed, thats is call being Selfish, which is what corrupting MMO right now. It is a MMO design fault as much as the players.

    No one cares about the player next to you, as far as every player knows, they are there to compete with you, gear, mob, resources and what not. No players like to see anyone in a game, because that only means lesser chance for gear, less mobs to complete quest, less chance of getting quest items. No game has ever done anything about it, at least SWTOR (and GW2) is trying to achieve that player socialisation by removing the competition of gears, the other deciding factor for you obtaining gear is due to a drop rate, not if other players are rolling the same thing as you.

    You are just as corrupted, corrupt with pessimism. Nothing is ever a lost cause, unless the person saving it gives up, maybe you are lost cause.

    How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
    As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

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