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Diablo 3: The "Real Money" Auction House

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  • AlotAlot BredaPosts: 1,948Member

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/08/02/blizzard-on-diablo-3-gold-farmers-and-players-really-doing-the-same-activity/

    Executive producer Rob Pardo replied: “Theoretically that’s true, but I mean there’s really nothing… what’s the difference between a player that plays the game a lot and a gold farmer? I mean they’re really doing the same activity.”

    With the Auction House there'll be even less differences between gold farmers and hardcore players.

  • HerodesHerodes DannenbergPosts: 1,494Member

    Currently playing around with Titan Quest. 8 classes, dual-classes, quite impressive. But I miss the HC-mode.
    ---
    The community in Diablo-esque games was always mostly terrible. Ninja-looting wherever you join a random group. Luckily there are a few players who clean up their mules and give items away for free, or say "take this weapon, I already have it twice".

    Now with this RMAH what do you think which crowd you will see more? The ninja looters or people who give away some epics (uniques, rares, set-items)?
    ---
    Btw, the only D2 mod I can remember was the 8 players mod: when you played solo offline mobs toughness and drop rate acted like there were 8 players in game. It was quite good.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by lizardbones

     




    Originally posted by Wraithone





    Originally posted by Stormreaver

    I feel like this is akin to a parent telling a teenager, "if you're going to drink, please do it in my house under my supervision." I've never been a fan of using real money to buy/sell ingame items, but this may be the only way for Blizzard to make sure it happens in a safe, legitimate manner. What's the alternative?






     

    Personally, I'd MUCH rather them drink at home (if they insist on it) and learn to deal with the effects, rather than out and about in the world as it were.  I'd much prefer they didn't, but life is about choices.  When you start dictating peoples choices, no matter the original intentions, it leads down the path to tyranny (which is how we ended up with the excessive nanny state we have). 

    I can see why Blizzard is doing this for multiple reasons, and it makes sense, given the reality of human nature.  I'm still looking forward to D3. 








    Having RMT that all players can participate in is not like telling your children to drink at home instead of outside. You can rephrase that as, "Something not allowed before, is now OK." You could just as easily say that having a Real Money Auction House in game is like allowing women to vote. Except it's not.



    People keep trying to attach a moral argument or comparison to RMT in games, when there is none. It's not cheating if you aren't breaking the rules. It's not now, nor has it ever been illegal. It will not permanently scar you or your family and it will not cause a breakdown in the social makeup of society.



    In regards to children and drinking, you do not allow your children to drink in the house. If they are going somewhere and you think there's going to be drinking, do not let them go. If they go somewhere and drink, you punish them. On top of all that, do not drink in your house yourself.



    ^^ This has nothing to do with Blizzard's real money auction house.

     

     

    Totally agree, with the first part.  The Dev's make the rules, and if they say that something is allowed, then by definition its not cheating.  Blizzard isn't doing anything thats all that unexpected, nor that would make me not play D3.

    As for the other, we will have to agree to disagree.  I did mention human nature. Drinking is its own punishment, so more on top of that is redundent. ^^  At the age when drinking typically becomes an issue, if they haven't been taught the truth about such choices, there are much greater issues to deal with. 

  • NifaNifa Oklahoma City, OKPosts: 324Member

    Originally posted by EricDanie

    Interestingly I am not against the way they seem to be implementing this, you're pretty naive to think RMT didn't run rampant in Diablo 2.

    From what I've heard, Blizzard will not be directly selling items and will be simply letting players make their deals with other players through an auction house, Blizzard's profit coming only from getting a set percentage from all sales. It's player to player commerce. It's not the kind of infinite offer to meet the demand that the infamous item shop monopoly (F2P shops and some P2P MMOs too) does. 

    My only real argument against that right now is based on mere speculation that Blizzard will not allow us to take that money we make out of the game, so it becomes just a system to generate money for Blizzard in a win-win environment, which people will completely bypass anyway since they won't be able to take the money they make out of the game. Oh, there is also the possibility that the in-game currency becomes worthless in this economy fueled by real money trading only.

    Besides that, they'll have to pay a lot more attention to their game - bots, phishing and exploiting can quickly destroy this economy.

    Now, we are merely talking about "leaks", so I could be wrong, no point getting all fired up until the official announcement and details come. If it is the way I described, then I have nothing against it, I'll take part in this experiment, even though I don't really know if I could get disappointed enough with their way to actually not purchase and play the game (especially since there are no monthly fees and the monthly choice it involves). 

    The "RPG" definition will weaken though, there is no roleplay and lore to explain obtaining power and progression through a credit card.

    Well, the article I read on it quoted Rob Pardo directly, so I'm thinking it's safe to say we're not talking leaks here, but the actual policy.

    With that out of the way, there are two things that bother me here: 1 - the single-player game cannot be played without an internet connection. My internet goes out, I'm in the hospital, what have you, no D3. It didn't work for Ubisoft, but BLizzard thinks it's a good idea anyway. Is it piracy, or Blizzard's potential AH profits? Don't know, don't care. Not buying the game because of it.

    2 - It's one thing when RMT is illegal and being run out of Chinese sweatshops and companies like Blizz are actively seeking to squash it. When Blizz and others say "screw it, can't squash it, may as well make a few bucks from it," that's when I have an issue. Sony did it by allowing players to sell characters and items and taking a cut, now Blizz is doing it.

    Am I the only person who has a problem with Blizzard looking to SOE for advice on how to run games?

    Firebrand Art

    "You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman

    Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr

  • rykim86rykim86 winnipeg, MBPosts: 236Member

    The markets will eventually saturate itself.  

    And there will always be under cutters.

    I don't see a particular problem with this.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,690Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Malevil

    Originally posted by Rabenwolf

    Originally posted by alkarionlog

    Originally posted by Wraithone

    Originally posted by Malevil

    Originally posted by noterra

    I personally rather work in real life for a few hours to buy items in the game that would take me weeks, if not months, to obtain since I won't be able to play more than a couple of hours a week. 

     

    This is a good move by Blizzard, and anyone whom spent more than a ladder season in Diablo 2 will understand why. If not, then you're just stupid. 

     I'm sick of ppl like you. It's becouse of cheaters like you we have to deal with gold farmers and account hacking.

     

    "Cheating" is defined by the Dev's of a given game.  Thus by definition, using the in game AH is not "cheating". 

    but by old gameplay rules, anything using RL money to buy equips, skillz, and /or using programs to help you during game is cheating, but hey go ahead, give you money to greed devs, they do it because people like you give then money, it a nice way to make your own money worht a lot less then it should

     

    Have you ever written a game design document? Ever been in the game development field? If you tried using your argument at a creative director or just any ol designer, they would laugh in your face. The simple fact is that cheating is doing what the DESIGNER does not intend or want the player do within the confines of the game design document (GDD). The core of a game its rule set, the rule set dictates the limitations which create elements of interacting and challenge. This can include the purchasing and or selling of items within the ruleset dictated by the designers and their server.

    You clearly cannot even fathom the unique design choices and opportunities this approach opens up for a game like Diablo, nor what the designers are going for and its nothing short of brilliant. I hope you never play a collectable card game because its no different. Trading and selling cards is no more cheating that it is in Diablo. This isnt a mmorpg, it isnt even a f2p item shop business model game, its a collectable item game and the rule set makes it quite clear that there are a few ways to find, sell, use and share the items found within the game. Everyone wins with what Blizzard is doing.

    "Old gameplay rules" also means nothing, its just empty rhetoric with no real substancial definition you could give them. You are entitled to your opinion, but know when to not claim it as fact, its just silly.

    RMT in the way its implimented works in Diablo 3's favor and for everyones favor for that matter due to the nature of its design and history. What works for one game might not work for another. Think of Diablo 3 like a collectable card game (such as magic the gathering or Pokemon) and you will understand.

    Look, you can write another  essay, but you and ppl like you are still nothing more than cheaters. Fighting against cheating by legalizing it is in my book same as fighting against crime by legalizing it. It's total fail.

     You know what the funny thing about that is... how absolutely clueless you are of how reality works. Something condoned by the developers is not cheating. Just like something that has been legalized is no longer a crime. You cant "fight against crime" when what youre fighting against isnt a crime. And just like we used to have a LOT of ridiculous nonsensical laws based on the ideas of a bunch of, amongst other things, religious fanatics.... eventually we grew up and realized there is no valid and truthful reason for some things to be illegal. Think about some of the things that are against the law where you live. Do you even understand why they are illegal and how that came to be, or do you simply say "it's just illegal, thats all that matters" and go about your day?

    Would you really expect gaming to not go the same route? Can you give a single good reason why controlled forms of RMT, put in the game by the devs themselves, should not be allowed? No, i dont want your personal opinion on wether or not you like it, becaus ethere will always be someone who feels differently. Im talking a solid factual point regarding some harm that it will cause to others, and a reason why it shouldnt be allowed.

    Truth is, there isnt one. There is nothing unfair about it. Just about everyone can make use of the system. Dont like spending real money of your own? Fine, sell your stuff for points and use them to buy what you want. It is absolutely no different than the AH in any other game except for 1 thing: in another game you would have spent hours/days/weeks doing some repetitive task to get that item, not actually playing just for enjoyment, but grinding/farming for an item. In D3 you can still do that if you prefer it, OR you can do something like be useful and go get a job for those several hours a day you spent farming and use a very small % of what you earned in all that time to buy the same thing.

    Hell i'd bet the majority of the people against this either a) dont have jobs and mooch of their family b) dont have jobs on collect a welfare check c) have poor paying jobs that they dont enjoy and cant provide for their families a smuch as they could if they applied themselves in real life instead of spending half their time on video games or d) are students without jobs but are applying themselves to be succesful in the future

    Of those 4, only the last has any real excuse to not have a bit of disposable income. The other 3 should stop being so worried about how something like this effects their gaming "experience" and worry more about their real life "experience" and why theyre even bothered by whats happening in a fantasy world while their children wonder why theyre going to need financial aid if they ever want to go to college.

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Posts: 2,034Member

    Originally posted by kaiser3282

    Im talking a solid factual point regarding some harm that it will cause to others, and a reason why it shouldnt be allowed.

    Allowing RMT in your game is taboo because game developer control the whole system.

    They have full control over the quanity of currency ingame, thus its inflation, same with items and drop tables. They can create or delete anything instantly, transfer anything to anyone as they wish. There is no possible mean for the players or anyone to control what they do ingame. So if they directly link all this with real money, do you even comprehend how easy and efficient their control is. They could easely scam everyone playing their game in a matter of second, espcially with DNA stating that they pocess all of it ;p I know they will prbably never do this, but it would be so easy to pull any small or heavy scam of it its scary. Even if they don't want to scam they control the inflation and the rarity of items. Basically they can manipulate the system as they wish. thats probably why they only take a fee, they don't even need to scam to make money of this; a fee is probably more than enough since they control the inflation, so the rate of transactions. For exemple if they refresh their loot table often, they are sure you will have to use the trading system, what is an uber loot today might be crap in 6 month when you replay the game. That is just an exemple right to explain.

    That full control i think is why there is a taboo, its just too easy. Not only that but it is also uncontrolable. There is no possbile way for you to know what they are doing, you have to trust them blindly. Its just weird and scary imo, did they really needed that. I mean wasn't item binding as it was in D2 on the best drop enough to stop RMT? Why did they took away item binding, it seam a bit hypocrit on their part to say they want to fight RMT, and then make all the item tradable isn't it. Its not like an hack and slash game like Diablo couldn't do fine without a super easy trade system.

    What would be nice is to have some servers without RMT auction house, that would be nice.

  • RevivialRevivial Clawson, MIPosts: 194Member

    Originally posted by Requiamer

    Originally posted by kaiser3282

    Im talking a solid factual point regarding some harm that it will cause to others, and a reason why it shouldnt be allowed.

    Allowing RMT in your game is taboo because game developer control the whole system.

    They have full control over the quanity of currency ingame, thus its inflation, same with items and drop tables. They can create or delete anything instantly, transfer anything to anyone as they wish. There is no possible mean for the players or anyone to control what they do ingame. So if they directly link all this with real money, do you even comprehend how easy and efficient their control is. They could easely scam everyone playing their game in a matter of second, espcially with DNA stating that they pocess all of it ;p I know they will prbably never do this, but it would be so easy to pull any small or heavy scam of it its scary. Even if they don't want to scam they control the inflation and the rarity of items. Basically they can manipulate the system as they wish. thats probably why they only take a fee, they don't even need to scam to make money of this; a fee is probably more than enough since they control the inflation, so the rate of transactions. For exemple if they refresh their loot table often, they are sure you will have to use the trading system, what is an uber loot today might be crap in 6 month when you replay the game. That is just an exemple right to explain.

    That full control i think is why there is a taboo, its just too easy. Not only that but it is also uncontrolable. There is no possbile way for you to know what they are doing, you have to trust them blindly. Its just weird and scary imo, did they really needed that. I mean wasn't item binding as it was in D2 on the best drop enough to stop RMT? Why did they took away item binding, it seam a bit hypocrit on their part to say they want to fight RMT, and then make all the item tradable isn't it. Its not like an hack and slash game like Diablo couldn't do fine without a super easy trade system.

    What would be nice is to have some servers without RMT auction house, that would be nice.

    If they do, and get caught they could face jail time.

    Not saying rich people don't rip people off for even more money they don't really need, eq; wallstreet, but why take the risk?

    Plus, not everyone is a crooked sob.  Some of us do whats right because we like to do whats right even when its a tough decision. 

     

    You can judge a persons character by what they do when no ones looking.

    "I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
    - John Galt

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,690Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Requiamer

    Originally posted by kaiser3282

    Im talking a solid factual point regarding some harm that it will cause to others, and a reason why it shouldnt be allowed.

    Allowing RMT in your game is taboo because game developer control the whole system.

    They have full control over the quanity of currency ingame, thus its inflation, same with items and drop tables. They can create or delete anything instantly, transfer anything to anyone as they wish. There is no possible mean for the players or anyone to control what they do ingame. So if they directly link all this with real money, do you even comprehend how easy and efficient their control is. They could easely scam everyone playing their game in a matter of second, espcially with DNA stating that they pocess all of it ;p I know they will prbably never do this, but it would be so easy to pull any small or heavy scam of it its scary. Even if they don't want to scam they control the inflation and the rarity of items. Basically they can manipulate the system as they wish. thats probably why they only take a fee, they don't even need to scam to make money of this; a fee is probably more than enough since they control the inflation, so the rate of transactions. For exemple if they refresh their loot table often, they are sure you will have to use the trading system, what is an uber loot today might be crap in 6 month when you replay the game. That is just an exemple right to explain.

    That full control i think is why there is a taboo, its just too easy. Not only that but it is also uncontrolable. There is no possbile way for you to know what they are doing, you have to trust them blindly. Its just weird and scary imo, did they really needed that. I mean wasn't item binding as it was in D2 on the best drop enough to stop RMT? Why did they took away item binding, it seam a bit hypocrit on their part to say they want to fight RMT, and then make all the item tradable isn't it. Its not like an hack and slash game like Diablo couldn't do fine without a super easy trade system.

    What would be nice is to have some servers without RMT auction house, that would be nice.

     See now you actually have a bit of common sense, and you have some good points, but much of that is an entirely different subject. The majority of the complaints in here basically amount to "OMG RMT IS EVIL!!!!" without any regard to what form the RMT takes, who is running it, what the conditions are, etc.

    Youre right, they could do what you say, but well they would pretty much lose the majority of their players. Just look at all the QQ about the fact that RMT even exists in the game and the "screw this game, gonna play Torchlight 2" posts. If they pulled shady crap like youre talking about it would be even worse. Besides that, it is just a game after all, and nobody is required to play it and spend the money youre talking about if they do start doing that stuff. The only way anyone would be "harmed" by such a system is if they let themselves be, by being gullible and naive and just shelling out cash for something that isnt at all worth it without thinking it through.

  • EvilestTwinEvilestTwin New York, NYPosts: 286Member

    Originally posted by Alot

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/08/02/blizzard-on-diablo-3-gold-farmers-and-players-really-doing-the-same-activity/

    Executive producer Rob Pardo replied: “Theoretically that’s true, but I mean there’s really nothing… what’s the difference between a player that plays the game a lot and a gold farmer? I mean they’re really doing the same activity.”

    With the Auction House there'll be even less differences between gold farmers and hardcore players.

    Gold farmers will bot and or use a real person to oversee a whole cafe full of bots.   They'll also be using every exploit they can find, as well as purchase stolen credit card information to open new accounts in case their old ones get banned for hacking/botting/exploiting.   Most account stealing generally tie back to gold farming companies too...

    I'd say there's a pretty big difference.  

  • IkedaIkeda Largo, FLPosts: 2,204Member Uncommon

    So then using your B-Net authenticator will make it worth it.

    SWTOR: F2P or Premium? Want Galactic Strongholds early? http://www.swtor.com/r/LbMdN7 Use the referral for 7 days of subscriber access. Unlock your GS today!

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,592Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Ikeda

    So then using your B-Net authenticator will make it worth it.

     

    I've had one of the first of those available on my account, and that coupled with common sense security principles means I'm unlikely to have problems.  Threats are a moving target, so security has to be multi layer and consistant.  The overwhelming majority of peoples accounts that get hacked, did something foolish, or didn't pay attention to basic security principles. 

  • LucioonLucioon Palm Harbor, FLPosts: 814Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by EvilestTwin

    Originally posted by Alot

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/08/02/blizzard-on-diablo-3-gold-farmers-and-players-really-doing-the-same-activity/

    Executive producer Rob Pardo replied: “Theoretically that’s true, but I mean there’s really nothing… what’s the difference between a player that plays the game a lot and a gold farmer? I mean they’re really doing the same activity.”

    With the Auction House there'll be even less differences between gold farmers and hardcore players.

    Gold farmers will bot and or use a real person to oversee a whole cafe full of bots.   They'll also be using every exploit they can find, as well as purchase stolen credit card information to open new accounts in case their old ones get banned for hacking/botting/exploiting.   Most account stealing generally tie back to gold farming companies too...

    I'd say there's a pretty big difference.  

    But this is the main reason why they are forcing everyone to be online, so that they have full control on the characters, if they notice that this character are a bot then they will stop it.

    Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

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