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Originally posted by MMO.Maverick Originally posted by jetface
For now, melee combat in AoC is still better and more engaging than in most other MMO's
Is block skill still useless and all ppl just spam combos? Or they actually made parry/block usefull?
And btw u mean better looking? or better working? cause spamming combos without well timed attacks timed parry/blocks and counter attacks like aoc's combat is, since block/parry system is crappy/dead (all prefer to spam combos since parry/block is misfuctioning) doesnt ewxactly describe a better and more engaging combat than most other mmorpgs .
Originally posted by tazarconan Is block skill still useless and all ppl just spam combos? Or they actually made parry/block usefull?
I can only speak for myself plus it has been a while (maybe things have changed in the meantime but I don't think so), the block skill isn't useless but you have to be so goddamn good with your timing and predicting the heavy hitting skills from your opponent that I've hardly seen it used. I've never specialised in training and using it, when I wanted to block and deflect I used the spells that did something alike.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Lets not forget all our level 1 mules that were full of wealth that they decided to delete, so putting that final nail in the coffin for you never to return to AOC.
How can an mmo company like Funcom decide that this was a good decision?.
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick Originally posted by tazarconan Is block skill still useless and all ppl just spam combos? Or they actually made parry/block usefull?
There was a script for block, when in pvp you would see your opponents use this script multiple times in fights. This was just one of the early pvp exploits that was never dealt with.
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick Originally posted by DarkPony Thanks Amana. I'll start it off: Will they screw up again?
Let me look at my mystical, allknowing 8-Ball for the answer.
My 8 Ball states 'momentarily not available'. Darn it.
Ok, let me flip a coin for the definite surefire answer, hold on...
Even Maverick's 8 ball has gone cloud now? Is there no hope for the rest of us?
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I been reading through alot of these posts, and now i have something to say
I believe Funcom needs a "Eve"
not so much of a game like Eve Online, but a "Eve" where they arent pressured by any outside companies that are holding their chestnuts on a openfire.
at the same time
Such a project/game would have to be something they would NEED to get right, since it would more likely be a game that they would have to fund themselves; no outside investors/publishers doing the chestnut thing on them.
I believe Funcom has learned from both AO and AOC because you know i wanna call AOC, Anarchy Online's Child sometimes, because kids, if taught right, can sometimes being looked as the generation that did better than the one's before them.
So will TSW be another screw up? more than likely, they got everything going against them.
1.disgruntled former customers
2.Hard core E-peen stroking marketing team
3.stiff competition from other mmo's with strong fan followings (GW2, SWTOR)
Funcom WILL screw up, it is in their blood, and it is what everyone will be focusing on the moment TSW launches; how much of a screwed up game it is.
in funcom's behalf, the best thing they can do is this:
Be better than the two generations before them.
Being that TSW is made by funcom and EA is the publisher it leaves little doubt that they will bungle the launch in true funcom and EA fashion..
Perhaps the starting areas may be playable but i think we all know as we move deeper in either the game will be sparse or buggy or both as FC had hoped they could fix it before anyone got there..
I dont trust these guys to deliver anything they claim but i dont dislike them either and i really hope they dont blow it because if they do its most likely game over and lights out for funcom as an mmorpg dev....
Unless i get to test this game before it releases and it grabs me by the balls and says BUY ME! TSW will remain a watch and see game that i will likely end up bypassing on day 1 and certainly will not even consider buying until after a viable trial and a lot of player feedback is offered..
Funcom has delivered some of the worst launch and delivery disappointments to me as a gamer and they have made me a very hard first day sell without some hands on..
As i tend to believe they dream big but deliver small if at all..
This game has my full attention and is one of only 2 games i am currently eyeballing the other being GW2 which is a preorder without further proof due, but for some reason you just know anet is going to let you give it a drive down the road and let ya kick the tires to boot...
I played AoC for ~2yrs and was one of the more lucky people to not encounter heavy bugs, i found a class i love and had fun for quite a while and with only the lowest interest in that kind of pvp AoC offers it never bugged me that it was that big fail.(I understand anyone who believed it would be that next big pvp thing to stay angry)But for me Funcom is still lightyears behind SOE in the case of epic fails.
TSW show some really interesting ideas and only the end of the world as we know it will stop me from testing it and make me a picture of my own how it works out.
Funcom needs to deliver this time as another bad launch would hurt their reputation this time in a significant way.They have to manage the expectations right this time and only promise what they can deliver.They have to release a stable game and get their launch keycodes right for everyone (i belive AoC is a testbed for some of the technical aspects).They must stick true to the roots of the game and not let it degrade into a war of nerfcycles started by the massive amount of loud vocal crybabies that pester the todays mmo communities.They should avoid to release TSW the same time as SWTOR comes out bcs it would kill initial sales.
Imo they will deliver this time bcs they finally have learned from AoC which lefts EA as the only sort of a variable.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLIJohnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
Funcom needs this launch to go the way everyone said Rift's did. It would do wonders for Funcom's reputation. Me, I had way too much fun in AO for way too long to write Funcom off, despite some annoyances. There was nothing like it when I first played, there is nothing like it now. Including, sadly, AoC.
So I hope TSW launches beautifully and does well.
Make it like Rift's launch, Funcom. Oh, but don't make it like Rift. Most boring trial I ever played, except the first few levels in the starting area, those were okay.
I do not want to kill ten rats! I don't care why your NPCs think I should, I do not want to kill them, okay? Not even if they're squirrels on fire and I'm supposed to catch them in a net instead of killing them. Okay? If I have to quest, make the damn storyline interesting, at least. And leave off the fetch this, kill ten of these rodents, tell so-and-so he broke my heart and bring me back a letter he wrote declaring his undying love for me. Or anyway, if I have to play matchmaker, then send me to the wedding afterward, and make it a Kill Bill wedding!
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I agree, a trouble free, smooth launch of TSW preceded by a down-to-earth, no-testosterone-heavy PR campaign a la AoC/WAR, would do wonders for FC's rep, especially if they still keep improving and building on AoC.
I don't think that TSW will be like Rift qua gameplay though, there are too many differences for that. TSW's classless/level-less system, the Investigation mystery/puzzle missions, Sabotage missions and other stuff just makes it very different from a lot of other MMO's. Daring ideas and doing things their own way has never been the problem of the FC teams, the execution of those ideas however was where things often went wrong.
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick I agree, a trouble free, smooth launch of TSW preceded by a down-to-earth, no-testosterone-heavy PR campaign a la AoC/WAR, would do wonders for FC's rep, especially if they still keep improving and building on AoC. I don't think that TSW will be like Rift qua gameplay though, there are too many differences for that. TSW's classless/level-less system, the Investigation mystery/puzzle missions, Sabotage missions and other stuff just makes it very different from a lot of other MMO's. Daring ideas and doing things their own way has never been the problem of the FC teams, the execution of those ideas however was where things often went wrong.
On top of that it's likely to incorporate AoC's Combat system which is one of the most innovative on the market, at least for melee. The best realistic worlds, a persuasion to the brutal and currently a focus on the pve'ers which they didn't have on the conan launch.
I'm a bit wary of putting full confidence in them after the last launch but they certainly tick all the boxes assuming an ideal world launch. My biggest fear for the game is hardware as they still have problems for those with older systems on that engine with AoC, even for some on new rigs.
ok listen up. im going to explain game development to you in a clear and understandable way. specifically in relation to funcom.
but let me preface that by saying, anyone that lump sums a company based on overall performance is a moron. games are only as good as their IMMEDIATE development staff.
with that said, funcom has a very good track record. let me explain why.
any problems funcom has ever experienced with a game, was solely because of one man. Gaute Godager.
Gaute Godager was solely responsible for anything bad that happened at ao's launch, or shadowlands. Gaute Godager was solely responsible for anything bad that happened in AOC.
Gaute was forced out. Left the gaming industry forever over it.
Since then funcom has really tried to put competient people in charge of development as well as finding people to repair the messes left by Gaute. Craig Morrisson did an amazing job fixing ao, which is why they gave him AOC to fix. Craig left means in charge of AO and hes done a great job with that as well. Neither title is perfect but i think some of the problems with the things that Gaute left behind are basically unfixable. I mean how do you fix a problem as big as shadowlands or the basic design of AOC for that matter. Theres just only so much you can do ya know?
Now lets talk about TSW for a moment. This is Ragnar Tornquist's game. Every single last thing hes ever done for funcom has been a major win for them and something the entire gaming community has liked.
Everyone loved the storylines, lore, and world he made for Anarchy Online. Everyone loved The Longest Journey. Everyone loved Dreamfall.
Looking solely at the quality of work delivered. Ragnar really should be considered among game designers like David Perry, Raph Koster, Yu Suzuki, or James Phinney IMO.
Iv'e said this a million times and honestly im kind of tired of gamers not paying attention. Based solely on the work produced, AT THE VERY LEAST, Ragnar has earned, the benefit of the doubt until launch.
Games i'm playing right now...
"In short, I thought NGE was a very bad idea" - Raph Koster talking about NGE on his blog at raphkoster.com
since we are consolidating, will repost my opinion here too:
FC's track record:
AO - favourite mmo ever.
AoC - best graphics in an mmo ever, great story and world realization, some of the most exciting combat... too pvp focused and somewhat simplistic in character development and itemization.
Epic fail on AO launch, better but not great AoC launch - neither really matters to me as i'd rather have a good game with a rough launch than a crap game with a perfect launch.
Both MMOs FC has made have been interesting, innovative and artistically compelling. Nothing i've seen about TSW makes me think that it's any different in this regard. So, very much looking forward to it.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STOFavourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, FirefallCurrently Playing: EQ2, BDO
Originally posted by cerebrix any problems funcom has ever experienced with a game, was solely because of one man. Gaute Godager. Gaute Godager was solely responsible for anything bad that happened at ao's launch, or shadowlands. Gaute Godager was solely responsible for anything bad that happened in AOC. Gaute was forced out. Left the gaming industry forever over it.
He left the game industry completely? Wow, didn't know that. I only know Gaute from AoC and I don't know if all the blame can be put on his shoulders, sounds a bit too easy to me, but he certainly had an influence on the game design and the way how AoC was presented (and hyped). Who knows what the game would've been if he had gotten an extra year to finish the game in the way he wanted, it could've maybe been a PvPer's ultimate dream. We'll never know.
Tornquist is a totally different person, and for the kind of game TSW is with the kind of setting and lore it has, I think he's the ideal figure for it.
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick Originally posted by cerebrix any problems funcom has ever experienced with a game, was solely because of one man. Gaute Godager. Gaute Godager was solely responsible for anything bad that happened at ao's launch, or shadowlands. Gaute Godager was solely responsible for anything bad that happened in AOC. Gaute was forced out. Left the gaming industry forever over it.
aoc was entirely his design. based on his design document, he also managed the production as well as the production team. just as he did with shadowlands in ao.
he started out with a lot of promise, but it really seems like hes just another designer with good ideas, but no plan to execute them to fruition.
Originally posted by cerebrix aoc was entirely his design. based on his design document, he also managed the production as well as the production team. just as he did with shadowlands in ao. he started out with a lot of promise, but it really seems like hes just another designer with good ideas, but no plan to execute them to fruition.
I can't say anything about the Shadowlands, 'cause I'm not familiar with how it played. But he did a number of things right, like the melee combat I still think is awesome or how they started out with the quests and the whole atmosphere. Although it felt to me that they had to rush a number of things. Like the combat was great, but they didn't manage to implement an equally compelling combat system for casters, or with a little extra effort they could've made the melee combat even better by letting you create your own combinations like the revamped ranger class was able to do.
Also, it seems to me that they had trouble with the engine, it just wasn't as solid aand sturdy as the one in other games. I think that was a setback that cost them a lot of time too, too much bughunting that was necessary and the sieges never ended up being as epic a feature as they could have been or said it would be. It sounded to me like a case where vision meets reality and limitations of the tools, with as result deadlines that were passed.
Hopefully the engine has been sorted out enough for Tornquist and his team to realise their vision in, without being forced to have TSW launched before it's ready.
From what is to read the newest version of the engine runs very well, i feel that AoC is sort of testing ground for them even they will never say so.But they wrote in their business report that for TSW the "tech risks" be significant lower compared to AoC bcs of the matured engine.Still they have big trouble with bugs in pvp sieges, bugs that be hard to reproduce.TSW will launch without significant PvP as far i understand it with only a few "Battlegrounds".But that is very ok to me, first they have to deliver a finished and release ready polished game.With the setting they can allways do an expansion with PvP as good as in Daoc.
As good as the combat in AoC is the same time it drives many people away and the static execution of each specific melee combo isnt that good anyway.I feel that the Ranger is now there where it should have allways been but for what Audience is this sort of combat attractive?AoC never made it onto consoles and TSW wont make it too...
I don't think there is any real risk of FunCom jumping the gun on TSW. For one, they are almost exclusively funding this game themselves. Sure, that EA logo probably confuses a lot of people, but truth is EA has a single role and that is working the logistics of publishing in North America only.
FunCom remains the executive publisher of TSW in other territories. Also note that EA have been attached to the game late in the development process. One of the many problems during the production of AoC was having Eidos there as a big investor and co-publisher from day 1 constantly breathing down FunCom's neck.
Second, TSW probably sets some kind of record for production time when it comes to MMO's. Many probably don't know this world and lore - even detailed art work and scripts have been work in progress as far back as 1997. That's a long long time. This is Ragnar Tørnquist's labor of love, as I understand it, he fathered the idea early in the production of AO and since then he has been trying to get the studio to give the go on the idea, but FunCom probably said it had to wait until after AoC and Dreamfall. One thing that is interesting is that some people have been working on this project before it even entered official, funded development - for free, pro bono, gratis. That is pretty damn rare, and shows a burning passion for this game.
If we count the very seed of life for this intellectual property, Ragnar Tørnquist - already acknowledged as one of the very most esteemed story tellers in the game industry - has had 14 years to mature his story. You simply can not beat that.
As for the story... It's a breathtaking concept, I'm not sure even the most imaginative plebeian on this site knows exactly what FunCom has in store for us. But let's just say, it won't be for the lowest common denominator. Here's a quote from Ragnar's Blog:
I think Jim Rossignol from Rock, Paper, Shotgun nailed it best in his excellent preview: our goal is to be interesting. Different, ambitious, creative - yes - but most importantly, we want to make an interesting game. A game that engages - mechanically, emotionally, spiritually - and a game that doesn't underestimate its audience. PC and MMO players are skilled, experienced, smart and creative, and a huge portion of them are actual adults. Not enough games recognise these facts. I hope ours does.
I have been waiting for an intellectual MMO experience forever, and break my strict never-preorder anything rule, and I will have no problem dropping the money up front with the game unseen. If the game launches badly or against all odds sucks, I will have spoken with my wallet for more developers thinking like this man.
Originally posted by Mercantor I think Jim Rossignol from Rock, Paper, Shotgun nailed it best in his excellent preview: our goal is to be interesting. Different, ambitious, creative - yes - but most importantly, we want to make an interesting game. A game that engages - mechanically, emotionally, spiritually - and a game that doesn't underestimate its audience. PC and MMO players are skilled, experienced, smart and creative, and a huge portion of them are actual adults. Not enough games recognise these facts. I hope ours does. I have been waiting for an intellectual MMO experience forever, and break my strict never-preorder anything rule, and I will have no problem dropping the money up front with the game unseen. If the game launches badly or against all odds sucks, I will have spoken with my wallet for more developers thinking like this man.
I agree that the idea of a 'smarter', engaging mmorpg which doesn't underestimate its audience is great but it would never be the only reason for me to preorder "unseen". Provided that the game actually ends up being what they say, (i.e. 'promises' are kept), there's a gazillion more factors which can make or break a mmorpg; amount of content, stability, enough gameplay alternatives like fleshed out and fun pve and pvp, engaging crafting (not added as an afterthought for a change), a whole and immersive world, use of mechanics like phasing (hopefully not), etc..
I'd advise anyone to at least wait for some in-depth previews and beta reports
I've been in your shoes as well; being convinced about a game way before launch and buying into it ... and subsequently being very disappointed due to various unforseen reasons. I learned my lesson
My brand new bloggity blog.
I really hope that as Funcom's fabled labor of love, that TSW turns out to be the golden egg we've all been waiting for and secretly hoping for.
If all of the previous false starts and missteps have all been for this, then Funcom will probably earn some serious cred in the industry. Moreso than the devoted and growing fanbase they've already acquired over the years with age of conan (botched launch and all, it's still the more finished game of the 2 major MMOs that came out at the same time).
I just hope that they soon begin to allay our fears that this game will not live up to it's hype.. I hope that they begin to get down and dirty with the meat and potatoes of the mechanics of this game, especially if they plan on hitting the Q4 launch window to match GW2 (which is already eating up praise for originality and innovation) or the player-sustained hype factory of SWTOR.
I'd like to see a searchable wheel of skills.. even if it's coached in 'still beta, subject to substantial change with little warning' codicil. Would give at least an idea of some of the design goals of their hugely unique system.
I'd like to see some of the character customization options. Knowing AoC's options, I expect these to be brilliant.
I'd like to see the gear setup / paper doll, even as I know that they won't neccessarily be visual aspects of the avatar.
I'd like to know more about the stat system and how it operates.
I'd like to know about the rp elements of the world, and the things we do when we're not solving conspiracies, fighting monsters, other factions, or the normal bump and grind of an MMO.
There's a lot of things that we 'know' but haven't seen.. a lot of things we don't even know about but that we expect, and a lot of things that we don't even know we don't know about. These locations previews are great, and I hope they soon start filling in some of the Templar and Dragon locations as well so that we know if they've really made progress or if they're only showing us what's done... but ultimately, if this game is in early stages of beta, I want to know more about it's meat.
Currently Watching: TSW. << Very Eager for a Beta invite. Have experience with Beta Testing.Not personally a big fan of raiding or current pve endgame mmo philosophy. Nothing wrong with it, I just sort of burnt out on it.Hardcore raider in wow from Launch to.. about 7 months ago.Currently Playing: Champions Online.
Originally posted by Figure I'd like to know about the rp elements of the world, and the things we do when we're not solving conspiracies, fighting monsters, other factions, or the normal bump and grind of an MMO.
Well, we know that they have a fight club in London, the biggest of the 3 city hubs, where you can do unarmed combat (I think), so there's that.
But I agree on the rest, it's time for Tornquist & co to show what else the game got with the big conventions coming up.
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick Originally posted by Figure I'd like to know about the rp elements of the world, and the things we do when we're not solving conspiracies, fighting monsters, other factions, or the normal bump and grind of an MMO.
Woo! Sounds like drunken brawling that AOC . . . didn't . . . have. Damn it! I really want to like this game because it looks incredible, but Funcom really dug themselves a big hole with AOC. Guess all we can do at this point is watch and hope.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I'd like to know if it's more solo-friendly than their other games. If not, I'm probably going to be skipping it.
Originally posted by Madimorga I'd like to know if it's more solo-friendly than their other games. If not, I'm probably going to be skipping it.
We don`t know yet. They will likely be focusing on both as ppl like to solo today, but there will still be group content. ARGs will also be both solo based and community based.
Originally posted by Destiny2010 Originally posted by Madimorga I'd like to know if it's more solo-friendly than their other games. If not, I'm probably going to be skipping it.
It will be interesting to find out, Funcom is probably the least solo-friendly developer still around, yet despite that, I would like to try TSW. They are also innovators (not the best bug fixers in the world, I grant you, but innovators). If they do decide to be more solo friendly, they could come up with new and unusual ways to incorporate more solo play.