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Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Old Republic Will Change the Industry

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Comments

  • GolelornGolelorn Hiding From Social Media Peeping Toms, ALPosts: 1,099Member Uncommon

    I don't see how it will be any different than a game like Rift or LoTRO. Hope I'm wrong, because I'm tired of these games that are only meant to be played for 2 weeks before the boredom caused by repetitive gameplay kicks in.

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member

    Originally posted by Golelorn

    I don't see how it will be any different than a game like Rift or LoTRO. Hope I'm wrong, because I'm tired of these games that are only meant to be played for 2 weeks before the boredom caused by repetitive gameplay kicks in.

    Then stop buying them? Buy the niche games made by indy companies.

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon

    I am trying to avoid commenting on games that I really don't have much interest in playing, and this comments are pointed more at the article then the game itself.

    I am disappointed in the lackluster points that are brought up in an article about how a game is going to change the world of mmo's. Seriously, you have crafting, housing and it's made by Bioware. 

    Crafting is not something new or groundbreaking, and sure they talk about how great it's going to be with having underlings do some of the work, but when it comes to crafting, the point is how much of a benefit it brings. If the crafted items are great enough then crafting holds a purpose, but if they are not as good as raid/dungeon/openworld/purchased items then irregardless of how great the process may be, it's still useless.  If they are  too great then other things suffer, so balance is key. Nothing in the hype is showing what the case will be.

    Housing is nice, but it's not new to the genre either. I love the idea of housing, and really hope that it will become a resolute part of all MMO's but even if that happens SWTOR doesn't get kudos for making it happen.

    Bioware tells great stories. Sure. Great stories are a staple of a good RPG, but when it comes to an MMO, the more detailed a story is, the more single player orientated it is. How do you tell a great story when someone else is making their own story? Do these stories mix together or do they simply fall to the wayside when people meet and group.  I have faith that Bioware can tell a wonderful story, and that they will do a great job of it with SWTOR, but I don't think that it's going to be doing the MMORPG genre any favors. I definately don't think it's going to rewrite the way that MMORPG's are made.

    That being said, I have faith that SWTOR will be a good game, and earn a fair keep but I don't think that it will change the industry as such, at least not by any information that was presented in this article.  

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • HurricanePipHurricanePip Sommerille, MAPosts: 167Member

    Equivlent to forum trolling because the topic can't be proed one way or the other while there's an NDA in place.  Maybe Blizzard is great at creating a market for its products.  Maybe they're just in the right place at the right time.  While I think they're a shade of their former selves, they have been the cornerstone of the PC industry for a long time.

    As for Bioware, I love their games, but I think they're moving towards that corporate mentality and away from just creating great games.  Besides voiceovers, player housing and facebook style crafting aren't very progressive. They've also got all their eggs in one basket with the story.  Now, I'll be the first to say that is one of the things I've always complained about in MMOs, but ... that was 8 years ago.  Second, many of TOR's systems look like ones I've already seen and were stale 4 years ago.  The talent trees being the most obvious example.

    Look at what Rift did and look at where The Secret World is going from a character development perspective and tell me that another MMO with skills, trainers and talent trees really gets you excited.  To me, TOR character system looks like a cross between TR and AoC to me and neither were very good.

    If you don't worry about it, it's not a problem.

  • fcazaresfcazares Norman, OKPosts: 190Member

    This game will be different than the other traditional MMOs because it will add BioWARE's story telling formula to the genre. When you go to do those MMO style quests you will know why and know the story because it will be narrated to you every step of the way. You wont click through the story because its all written. When you reach max level on a class you can start an alt and have a compeltely different story and experience or use the same class and choose different opetions for another angle of the story. Which makes it less of a grind when playing an MMO. My biggest problem with MMO's is the stupid boring grind that seem pointless in the context of the story just so the developer can stave off adding more real content. I'm tired of having to wait for them to release something new so I dont spend all my time in the grind. A replayability in an MMO like you have in the RPG's that BioWARE makes is huge for a gamer like me. Immersion and story are paramount and finally we'll see an MMO from a company that specializes in it. That's why its exciting to me.

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member

    Originally posted by fcazares

    This game will be different than the other traditional MMOs because it will add BioWARE's story telling formula to the genre. When you go to do those MMO style quests you will know why and know the story because it will be narrated to you every step of the way. You wont click through the story because its all written. When you reach max level on a class you can start an alt and have a compeltely different story and experience or use the same class and choose different opetions for another angle of the story. Which makes it less of a grind when playing an MMO. My biggest problem with MMO's is the stupid boring grind that seem pointless in the context of the story just so the developer can stave off adding more real content. I'm tired of having to wait for them to release something new so I dont spend all my time in the grind. A replayability in an MMO like you have in the RPG's that BioWARE makes is huge for a gamer like me. Immersion and story are paramount and finally we'll see an MMO from a company that specializes in it. That's why its exciting to me.

     

    Then you should play sandbox games and single player games. It really irritating for those of us who actually like the social aspects of the game, the community build, etc that people like you and themepark games are taking the genre over. You beat a game and quit because thats all the game is to you and thats all its designed to be.

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • alkrmralkrmr warminster, PAPosts: 237Member Uncommon

    just another mmo imo, just being sold by the star wars brand, gw2 is the only upcoming mmo looking to break the mold

  • fcazaresfcazares Norman, OKPosts: 190Member

    Originally posted by xpiher

    Originally posted by fcazares

    This game will be different than the other traditional MMOs because it will add BioWARE's story telling formula to the genre. When you go to do those MMO style quests you will know why and know the story because it will be narrated to you every step of the way. You wont click through the story because its all written. When you reach max level on a class you can start an alt and have a compeltely different story and experience or use the same class and choose different opetions for another angle of the story. Which makes it less of a grind when playing an MMO. My biggest problem with MMO's is the stupid boring grind that seem pointless in the context of the story just so the developer can stave off adding more real content. I'm tired of having to wait for them to release something new so I dont spend all my time in the grind. A replayability in an MMO like you have in the RPG's that BioWARE makes is huge for a gamer like me. Immersion and story are paramount and finally we'll see an MMO from a company that specializes in it. That's why its exciting to me.

     

    Then you should play sandbox games and single player games. It really irritating for those of us who actually like the social aspects of the game, the community build, etc that people like you and themepark games are taking the genre over. You beat a game and quit because thats all the game is to you and thats all its designed to be.

     So you're trying to imply that SW:TOR will not have a social aspect, even though it has everything most MMO's have in that area? Seriously? Thats a hollow argument. Your attack about sandboxy is ludicris because thats a tiny niche market and not indicative of BioWARE's work. I don't quit games, games quit their subscirbers when they stave off putting in content by putting in fluff. Small communities like that sort of crap and thats why those kinds of games fail. This will be a full fledged MMO with the common elemts of the genre all in there but added on will be BioWARE's storytelling technique. Thats the point and you tried your best to avoid arguing over what is clearly a fact and why this game, despite your jaded critical attitude, will be successful.

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member

    Originally posted by fcazares

    Originally posted by xpiher


    Originally posted by fcazares

    This game will be different than the other traditional MMOs because it will add BioWARE's story telling formula to the genre. When you go to do those MMO style quests you will know why and know the story because it will be narrated to you every step of the way. You wont click through the story because its all written. When you reach max level on a class you can start an alt and have a compeltely different story and experience or use the same class and choose different opetions for another angle of the story. Which makes it less of a grind when playing an MMO. My biggest problem with MMO's is the stupid boring grind that seem pointless in the context of the story just so the developer can stave off adding more real content. I'm tired of having to wait for them to release something new so I dont spend all my time in the grind. A replayability in an MMO like you have in the RPG's that BioWARE makes is huge for a gamer like me. Immersion and story are paramount and finally we'll see an MMO from a company that specializes in it. That's why its exciting to me.

     

    Then you should play sandbox games and single player games. It really irritating for those of us who actually like the social aspects of the game, the community build, etc that people like you and themepark games are taking the genre over. You beat a game and quit because thats all the game is to you and thats all its designed to be.

     So you're trying to imply that SW:TOR will not have a social aspect, even though it has everything most MMO's have in that area? Seriously? Thats a hollow argument. Your attack about sandboxy is ludicris because thats a tiny niche market and not indicative of BioWARE's work. I don't quit games, games quit their subscirbers when they stave off putting in content by putting in fluff. Small communities like that sort of crap and thats why those kinds of games fail. This will be a full fledged MMO with the common elemts of the genre all in there but added on will be BioWARE's storytelling technique. Thats the point and you tried your best to avoid arguing over what is clearly a fact and why this game, despite your jaded critical attitude, will be successful.

    The blod part is exactly why most MMO are completely crap at the foundation. Yes, I am saying that SWTOR will not have the social aspect that I'm talking about because 90% of MMOs on the market do not have that social aspect anymore. Its more than meeting up for raids or playing the game together, its about community building. For instance, while I am playing rift and enjoying it atm, it does not have a focus on community development/involvment. Its MMO fast food. Once I'm done doing raids and all that jazz, the game will be boring unless the devlopers can make world shaping through pvp improtant becuase thats the only way themepark games can make community building important. 

    KTOR, the IP behind TOR, is a sandbox game franchise. If you played it, you'd know why I call it a sandbox, largely because of the ability to shape the world. TOR will not have the game shaping aspects, not in the meaningful sense anyways. You'll be able to shape your story, but not the world itself. On top of this, there is a finite amount of story haping that you can actual particapte in and everyone playing the game has the same options to shape their story the same way you do. SWG (pre-nge) had world shaping on a level no themepark game (VG was very close) can ever hope to acheve. TOR will be no different. The themepark modle is too ridgid and  it appeals to a difference audience. 

    Just to make it clear, I don't care if SWTOR is sucessful or not. It probably will be, just like rift, wow, and AoC and EQ. That doesn't mean the game will be more or rather better than any of them. From the information and how the devs hype the game SWTOR is simply another themepark mmo. The reason people are tired of seeing the same "wow clone" is for the same reason why you quit themepark games every 6months until new content is released. If you are tired of that same old crap (as the ornage text leads me to believe) then you should stop buying the same old crap. Demand that the game have features and community building tools, things that make the game new and refershing every day even if its the same. Dynamic content, world building tools, player vs player confilct that actually impacts the world (not zone take over like WAR but desimation and permanet destruction like SB), etc. 

    No matter how much you want to believe other wise, SWTOR isn't breaking the mold for the MMO. It simply injecting a single player experience into an MMO and then making you pay for it. I'd rather play Skyrim and KOTR for a single payment of $50 (or less) than shell out 15 a month for the same crap.

    And just to be clear, I think that you'll quit SWTOR after you've played through the game just like you do with every other themepark game. 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,121Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fcazares



    Originally posted by xpiher


    Originally posted by fcazares

    This game will be different than the other traditional MMOs because it will add BioWARE's story telling formula to the genre. When you go to do those MMO style quests you will know why and know the story because it will be narrated to you every step of the way. You wont click through the story because its all written. When you reach max level on a class you can start an alt and have a compeltely different story and experience or use the same class and choose different opetions for another angle of the story. Which makes it less of a grind when playing an MMO. My biggest problem with MMO's is the stupid boring grind that seem pointless in the context of the story just so the developer can stave off adding more real content. I'm tired of having to wait for them to release something new so I dont spend all my time in the grind. A replayability in an MMO like you have in the RPG's that BioWARE makes is huge for a gamer like me. Immersion and story are paramount and finally we'll see an MMO from a company that specializes in it. That's why its exciting to me.

     

    Then you should play sandbox games and single player games. It really irritating for those of us who actually like the social aspects of the game, the community build, etc that people like you and themepark games are taking the genre over. You beat a game and quit because thats all the game is to you and thats all its designed to be.

     So you're trying to imply that SW:TOR will not have a social aspect, even though it has everything most MMO's have in that area? Seriously? Thats a hollow argument. Your attack about sandboxy is ludicris because thats a tiny niche market and not indicative of BioWARE's work. I don't quit games, games quit their subscirbers when they stave off putting in content by putting in fluff. Small communities like that sort of crap and thats why those kinds of games fail. This will be a full fledged MMO with the common elemts of the genre all in there but added on will be BioWARE's storytelling technique. Thats the point and you tried your best to avoid arguing over what is clearly a fact and why this game, despite your jaded critical attitude, will be successful.


     

     Amen, brother!

    image
  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    Originally posted by xpiher



    Originally posted by fcazares

    This game will be different than the other traditional MMOs because it will add BioWARE's story telling formula to the genre. When you go to do those MMO style quests you will know why and know the story because it will be narrated to you every step of the way. You wont click through the story because its all written. When you reach max level on a class you can start an alt and have a compeltely different story and experience or use the same class and choose different opetions for another angle of the story. Which makes it less of a grind when playing an MMO. My biggest problem with MMO's is the stupid boring grind that seem pointless in the context of the story just so the developer can stave off adding more real content. I'm tired of having to wait for them to release something new so I dont spend all my time in the grind. A replayability in an MMO like you have in the RPG's that BioWARE makes is huge for a gamer like me. Immersion and story are paramount and finally we'll see an MMO from a company that specializes in it. That's why its exciting to me.

     

    Then you should play sandbox games and single player games. It really irritating for those of us who actually like the social aspects of the game, the community build, etc that people like you and themepark games are taking the genre over. You beat a game and quit because thats all the game is to you and thats all its designed to be.


     

    Really?

    Why aren't you still playing Darkfall then? Instead of railing against the evils of the themepark, shouldn't you be supporting the only sandbox (outside of Eve) left with a population of more than 100 people.

  • JuJutsuJuJutsu Toronto, ONPosts: 331Member

    Originally posted by metatronic

    you people are going to be in for a rude shock when you finally get playing this game.. and realize there is a monthly fee and micro transactions. The micro's just ruin character progression no matter how you look at it, if you can't play the game normally and loot stuff you would otherwise buy from the store its a failed game in a ton of peoples eyes. Even if you're only buying appearance gear and potions it ruins the point of why some of us play games which is to progress our characters and upgrade as we play the game, not by buying stuff from a store.. That makes the point of any game pointless which is why MT's fail in north america.

    I think way too many of you are blinded by star wars the lore and or just rabid bioware fans to ever see how shallow and crappy this game will eventually end up being. And if you don't wanna keep playing wow clones well into the future, we all need this game to fail faster than vanguard.. which is why im not even worried about it succeeding since all it is, is a major wow ripp off and re skinned for star wars. And its all done by a company with no mmo experience and who thinks story telling belongs in mmo's LOL

    3 months after this game launched it will be DOA... just like rift and any other game who thinks using wow's 8 year old mechanics is a good idea.. how many more 50+ million dollar failures do we need before they realize they aren't getting wow sub base!

     Great, come back and talk to us 3 months after launch.

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member

    Originally posted by Atlan99



    Originally posted by xpiher








    Originally posted by fcazares





    This game will be different than the other traditional MMOs because it will add BioWARE's story telling formula to the genre. When you go to do those MMO style quests you will know why and know the story because it will be narrated to you every step of the way. You wont click through the story because its all written. When you reach max level on a class you can start an alt and have a compeltely different story and experience or use the same class and choose different opetions for another angle of the story. Which makes it less of a grind when playing an MMO. My biggest problem with MMO's is the stupid boring grind that seem pointless in the context of the story just so the developer can stave off adding more real content. I'm tired of having to wait for them to release something new so I dont spend all my time in the grind. A replayability in an MMO like you have in the RPG's that BioWARE makes is huge for a gamer like me. Immersion and story are paramount and finally we'll see an MMO from a company that specializes in it. That's why its exciting to me.

     

    Then you should play sandbox games and single player games. It really irritating for those of us who actually like the social aspects of the game, the community build, etc that people like you and themepark games are taking the genre over. You beat a game and quit because thats all the game is to you and thats all its designed to be.






     

    Really?

    Why aren't you still playing Darkfall then? Instead of railing against the evils of the themepark, shouldn't you be supporting the only sandbox (outside of Eve) left with a population of more than 100 people.

    I stopped playing darkfall because it didn't fix its problems quick enough and I'm leaving for the military in sep. 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • DrakiisDrakiis Rochester, MNPosts: 47Member

    So The article is boiling it all down to story being the "improvement"?  I hate to burst the Devils bubble but story has always been a hallmark of MMO's traditional or otherwise.  Even WoW has story, now granted some stories are better then others and the methods used to present that story may fall short for some games, Bioware has hardly reinvented the wheel with that one.  The Truth here is that SWTOR will be WoW in space when the new car smell has long evaporized and the shrink wrap has been tore off and the seals broken on the product it will already be old news.  

     

    What you should be asking people is how did MMORPG's change to MMO's?  Where has the rpg elements gone in todays online gaming and will SWTOR be bringing in any rpg elements, mechanics which quite honestly do not really exsist in many of the games we play today.  Now a days you choose a race and class and that's it.  All the skills are predetermined based on those things and desicions on how to craft and build a character fall largely on the gear you wear and your appearance instead of stat allocation or skill choices outside of that class.

  • Xondar123Xondar123 None of Your Business, BCPosts: 2,543Member

    Originally posted by Zooce



    Poorly written article.



    A de-emphasis on crafting, lack of customizable player housing, and rich storytelling are hardly revolutionary.  Also, try proofreading your opening paragraph.


     

    He never said they were "revolutionary," he merely said that these things are staples of MMORPGs thus SWTOR is an MMORPG. What's this obsession that every new MMO Nhas to be "revolutionary."

  • Nhoj1983Nhoj1983 Mount Vernon, WAPosts: 185Member

    If SWTOR is sucessful heck yes it will change the industry.  As it stands I think it has to the point that more devs are paying more attention to story.  From my point of view it'll sell like hotcakes for sure and keep subs for at least a few months.  It COULD be the first real competition for WoW in a while.  Now is it the second coming?  No... no game is... Will it be a fun game with a good story presented bioware style that generally follows mmo conventions plus a few forgotten ones(aka housing and such)? Almost certainly.

     

    That to me is worth a sub... it's more worth a sub than anything else available right now until GW2.  Now they might dissapoint at some section in the game but<shrugs> nothing's perfect.  I personally beleave mmo players need to remember the rpg part of mmorpg.  That's totally my opinion though.  I understand others might disagree.  I accept that but to me it seems a no brainer that yeah if it doesn't crash and burn that other devs will take bits and pieces of the game and call it their own.

  • RomseRomse Montreal, QCPosts: 198Member

    I think they are changing the way MMOs are made by not making an engine of their own but licensing a ready made engine (the Hero Engine)

    We're gonna have to see more and more of this because developpement of an MMO is just too costly and at this point no one is taking any risks.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon

    Who knows, who knows?  perhaps, perhaps not.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member

    Originally posted by Romse

    I think they are changing the way MMOs are made by not making an engine of their own but licensing a ready made engine (the Hero Engine)

    We're gonna have to see more and more of this because developpement of an MMO is just too costly and at this point no one is taking any risks.

    Do you know anything about MMOs? 90% of them are made using a ready made engine and have been for some time. Unreal, Gamebryo, Heroscape are just a few off the top of my head. MMO companies only make their own engire when the engines avaible restrict their development wishes

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • Pace2002Pace2002 Denver, COPosts: 16Member

    All I have to say is I have yet experience a world as truely remarkable as Norrath in EQ1.  I remember to this day how alive the world felt, the scaling was amazing, the social interactions between players and GMs was great, and the best part about it was the freedom it gave me.  I could explore any area I wished to and not be confined by "tunnel mountains".  

     

    The only other game that has come close to the same expierence I had in EQ was WoW....but that feeling quickly devolved with the rest of the game, when it became more of a chore and what I had to do, rather than doing whatever I wanted to do. As far as TOR becoming the next big thing to revolutionize the genre....I am just not seeing it, this game limits the player WAY too much....and the funny thing is the main selling point of this game, which is story, will enforce great limitation on the player.....because every player will experience the same story, have the same ship, experience the same interactions with their identical companions.....I have no idea why Bioware went the single player story route (personal stories) rather than creating a World Arc story that each and every player can play a role in...in their own very unique way.

     

    Most people will disagree and say to me that sandbox is not the future....but I am sad to say it is. The sandbox needs to be improved drastically in order for it to see success, but having no limitations on the player is the only true way to create an artifical world for people to immerse themselves in.  The only problem is figuring out a way to reduce the learning curve of these games, making it accessible to the players who lack the experience, the time, or the patience of dedicating their MMO time within these worlds.

     

    Will TOR be successful? Its star wars......of course it will........Will it bring MMO's closer to their true potential? Doubt it

  • jmoreejmoree West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 30Member

    OMG! U mean that grammer is required to be a online editor now?? WTF, i mean if i can't ROTFL while reading this POS then Y bother? pfhhhhh....

     

    I agree that all proper grammer has gone out the window.

  • NormikeNormike san francisco, CAPosts: 436Member

    Originally posted by xpiher

    Originally posted by fcazares


    Originally posted by xpiher


    Originally posted by fcazares

    This game will be different than the other traditional MMOs because it will add BioWARE's story telling formula to the genre. When you go to do those MMO style quests you will know why and know the story because it will be narrated to you every step of the way. You wont click through the story because its all written. When you reach max level on a class you can start an alt and have a compeltely different story and experience or use the same class and choose different opetions for another angle of the story. Which makes it less of a grind when playing an MMO. My biggest problem with MMO's is the stupid boring grind that seem pointless in the context of the story just so the developer can stave off adding more real content. I'm tired of having to wait for them to release something new so I dont spend all my time in the grind. A replayability in an MMO like you have in the RPG's that BioWARE makes is huge for a gamer like me. Immersion and story are paramount and finally we'll see an MMO from a company that specializes in it. That's why its exciting to me.

     

    Then you should play sandbox games and single player games. It really irritating for those of us who actually like the social aspects of the game, the community build, etc that people like you and themepark games are taking the genre over. You beat a game and quit because thats all the game is to you and thats all its designed to be.

     So you're trying to imply that SW:TOR will not have a social aspect, even though it has everything most MMO's have in that area? Seriously? Thats a hollow argument. Your attack about sandboxy is ludicris because thats a tiny niche market and not indicative of BioWARE's work. I don't quit games, games quit their subscirbers when they stave off putting in content by putting in fluff. Small communities like that sort of crap and thats why those kinds of games fail. This will be a full fledged MMO with the common elemts of the genre all in there but added on will be BioWARE's storytelling technique. Thats the point and you tried your best to avoid arguing over what is clearly a fact and why this game, despite your jaded critical attitude, will be successful.

    The blod part is exactly why most MMO are completely crap at the foundation. Yes, I am saying that SWTOR will not have the social aspect that I'm talking about because 90% of MMOs on the market do not have that social aspect anymore. Its more than meeting up for raids or playing the game together, its about community building. For instance, while I am playing rift and enjoying it atm, it does not have a focus on community development/involvment. Its MMO fast food. Once I'm done doing raids and all that jazz, the game will be boring unless the devlopers can make world shaping through pvp improtant becuase thats the only way themepark games can make community building important. 

    KTOR, the IP behind TOR, is a sandbox game franchise. If you played it, you'd know why I call it a sandbox, largely because of the ability to shape the world. TOR will not have the game shaping aspects, not in the meaningful sense anyways. You'll be able to shape your story, but not the world itself. On top of this, there is a finite amount of story haping that you can actual particapte in and everyone playing the game has the same options to shape their story the same way you do. SWG (pre-nge) had world shaping on a level no themepark game (VG was very close) can ever hope to acheve. TOR will be no different. The themepark modle is too ridgid and  it appeals to a difference audience. 

    Just to make it clear, I don't care if SWTOR is sucessful or not. It probably will be, just like rift, wow, and AoC and EQ. That doesn't mean the game will be more or rather better than any of them. From the information and how the devs hype the game SWTOR is simply another themepark mmo. The reason people are tired of seeing the same "wow clone" is for the same reason why you quit themepark games every 6months until new content is released. If you are tired of that same old crap (as the ornage text leads me to believe) then you should stop buying the same old crap. Demand that the game have features and community building tools, things that make the game new and refershing every day even if its the same. Dynamic content, world building tools, player vs player confilct that actually impacts the world (not zone take over like WAR but desimation and permanet destruction like SB), etc. 

    No matter how much you want to believe other wise, SWTOR isn't breaking the mold for the MMO. It simply injecting a single player experience into an MMO and then making you pay for it. I'd rather play Skyrim and KOTR for a single payment of $50 (or less) than shell out 15 a month for the same crap.

    And just to be clear, I think that you'll quit SWTOR after you've played through the game just like you do with every other themepark game. 

    A few things that didn't click. It's not just MMOs that have become fast food. Everything is fast food today: music, tv, news, movies, mini-vacations, meals, shopping, even conversations. Everything happens at a much faster pace. Most people aren't going to sit down to an old school traditional rpg pace. It's archaic at the speed we live today.

     

    SWTOR will be about as sandbox as KOTOR. You make this choice, this race of people is destroyed, make that choice then this race of people is saved. blah blah blah. SWTOR can morph environments that fit in different states so if you have comleted a quest then the environment can look different. Your real issue is that everyone gets to do it. Well yes, that requires suspension of disbelief. You have to use your imagination to believe that only you and your party members completed that quest. It's part of storytelling. Or you can just say "this sucks! I just did a survey on Coruscant and 100 other people said they saved the Jawa people on that quest too!"  It's up to your imagination. But I don't think it means that SWTOR is less of a sandbox than KOTOR.

     

    SWTOR isn't exactly "injecting a single payer experience into an MMO" then making you pay for it. When games migrated from just text to simple graphics, MMORPGs and RPGs diverged. Some RPGs continued to enhance the story, the npcs, the plot. MMOs continued to focus more and more on gear, items, and bosses that require multiple people to fight. To the point that today's MMOs suck badly at story, believable NPC characters, and an exciting plot. MMOs did this MMO worlds are large, there are hundreds of quests. Creating a cohesive plot, with voice acting, extensive realistic NPC animations, facial expressions, all in a cohesive engaging story is daunting and way too expensive. It's easier to make it about all about item, gear, bosses, and pvp.

     

    You make it sound like SWTOR is removing something from the MMO formula in order to give you cinematics. AKA ripping you off by charging you $15/month instead of just giving you a whole single player rpg that you can buy. They are giving you a full current day MMO and adding all the stuff that Bioware usually does on top of that. So I don't see how you can complain that you'd rather just pay once and have Skyrim? lol

     

    When I look at what we have to select from: Aion, Eve Online, WoW, Star Trek Online, Final Fantasy XIV, Guild Wars 2, Archage, Tera, Darkfall, Rift, LotRo, The Secret World. They all have or probably will fail to make me give a damn about the story, the plot, even about the quest. The quest just becomes "oh let me grab these items so I can get some xp." But even in the SWTOR clips I actually found myself getting attached to the Mako character, the "Yoda" character, etc. Their voice acting, body language, facial expressions, cinematography make them come to life to me. They feel believable, realistic. I don't get that same feeling from looking at other MMO character clips, for example Tera, GW2, Secret World. If they can keep adding expansions onto the game with this level of quality then that's worth $15 a month.

  • dinamsdinams Muriae, VAPosts: 1,362Member

    Ohh I thought he wasn't going to touch that spot

    He's deserving the devil advocate title

    "It has potential"
    -Second most used phrase on existence
    "It sucks"
    -Most used phrase on existence

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Pace2002

     

    Most people will disagree and say to me that sandbox is not the future....but I am sad to say it is. The sandbox needs to be improved drastically in order for it to see success, but having no limitations on the player is the only true way to create an artifical world for people to immerse themselves in.

    That assumes that the developers want to make "an artificial world for people to immerse themselves in."

    Now let's see...

    Arnold Schoenberg created 12 tone music. He once said that one day people would be whistling them as he saw it as the future.

    Now tell me, how many 12 tone meleodies do you whistle on the way to work?

    The thing is, someone is always convinced that just because they consider something better that it will eventually be seen as such.

    Not everyone is wired to be dropped into a world and figure out what they want to do.

    too many people want to be guided from quest hub to quest hub.

  • LaterisLateris Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,748Member Uncommon

    With all the innovation and talent that Bioware and Lucas Arts have available  I am really surpised at the design they went for with space on rails for an MMO, yes that will change the industry into that crazy train requiring less development time and less budgets to have to request. Woot woot.

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